OT: I love you limey *******s!

[Merryprankster]

Thanks to the sheer anal-retentive thoroughness of your culture, I have hit upon a heap of useful information for my master's thesis.

I love each and every one of you miserable pasty gits and owe you all pints.

[Pork Chop]

Meanwhile, Ap is tied up in a basement somewhere, sobbing and quietly praying that MP actually feeds him before the next round of "loving"....

[Water Dragon]

I'm afraid to ask but, What's your thesis on Mr. Malkovich?

[Merryprankster]

Terrorist Maritime Enterprises and how to get at them.

[brothernumber9]

git?

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Thanks to the sheer anal-retentive thoroughness of your culture, I have hit upon a heap of useful information for my master's thesis.

Yeah well it rains all the time. What else are we gonna do?

[Nick Forrer]

Actually MP I just found out that Jason Burke (author of 'Al qaeda..the true story of radical islam) trains kickboxing at the same place as my BJJ class...youve read his book right?

[Merryprankster]

NF,

No, I haven't. Terrorism, AQ, the middle east are very popular subjects right now so I'm sure there's all kinds of literature (of varying quality) that I've not gotten to.

To be honest, it's all starting to sound the same - proof I've sort of mined it out.

[Merryprankster]

What's his principle thesis?

[CaptinPickAxe]

"We could move to England...all we'd have to worry about is drive by debating."

"Oh Nigel!.....I DISAGREE!"

[MonkeySlap Too]

Actually, it's home invasions you need to worry about, as the Brit subjects have no right to defend themselves.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
What's his principle thesis?

In brief

That ALQ is not an ideologically uniform top down hierachal structure that will evaporate once the leadership is killed/arrested.

Instead it is a loose network of networks which if it ever did exist in any identifiable form would be between 1996 - 2001.

That Bin Ladens primary role is as figure head/facillitator rather than commander per se. That many of the ALQ attributed terrorist acts since the end of Afghan war were in fact developed planned and carried out by independant cells, often with local agendas but who recieved either basic training, logistical support or funds from Bin Laden.

Also gives very good history of Islam and middle east: Post Colonialism, Pan Arabian Nationalism, Political Islam, Radical Islam militancy and finally local issues such as Kashmir, Algerian civil war, Afghan/soviet conflict, Bosnia etc.

[David Jamieson]

git

n : a person who is deemed to be despicable or contemptible; "only a rotter would do that"; "kill the rat"; "throw the bum out"; "you cowardly little pukes!"; "the British call a contemptible person a `git'" [syn: rotter, dirty dog, rat, skunk, stinker, stinkpot, bum, puke, crumb, lowlife, scum bag, so-and-so]

see also, icthyological species of Scotland.

[Merryprankster]

NF,

Fairly standard stuff. Not to disparage his work, mind you, but yeah, that sounds about right.

However, he needs to remember that there IS such a thing as "AQ." Members have taken a personal oath of fealty to UBL. It's sort of the "A" team of international Islamic Terrorism.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
Actually, it's home invasions you need to worry about, as the Brit subjects have no right to defend themselves.

No we do. Its just that English Law contains this weird test of 'Force that is (objectively) reasonable and proportionate to the threat as you (subjectively) believed it to be'. So gunning down an unarmed 16 year old boy for breaking into your farm isnt considered reasonable or proportionate. Strange isnt it?

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by Merryprankster

However, he needs to remember that there IS such a thing as "AQ." Members have taken a personal oath of fealty to UBL. It's sort of the "A" team of international Islamic Terrorism.

Yeah, he covers that. A bayat right?

[Merryprankster]

Yup.

My point is that there is an "AQ," and we really shouldn't forget that.

He's right about the decentralized nature of the thing, as long as he doesn't go overboard.

NF, we have the same test here. Force appropriate to the situation at hand - which must be discontinued the instant the threat disappears.

[David Jamieson]

yup there's an AQ. There's also a Hell's Angels and they run a lot of the illicit drug trade within many countries. They also have essentially what is tantamount to slavery rings through the fronting of prostitution. Not to mention the other vices the perpetuate and the laws they break. But they're not the only ones, there are plenty of other groups such as your garden variety mafia types, your armed militias, other bike gangs, street gangs etc etc.

More people die from drive by's, drug overdoses and murders within these circles than any AQ could or has inflicted on any country.

Kind of weird who gets the focus of the attention and even weirder where the focus gets pulled away from with a particularly -sensational- act.

The difference is what is the impetus for the formation of a group such as AQ vs what is the impetus for the formation of a group like the others I mentioned?

[Merryprankster]

The difference is what is the impetus for the formation of a group such as AQ vs what is the impetus for the formation of a group like the others I mentioned?

A sociologist might claim they were the same. The Hells Angels and AQ have similar beginnings.

I've seen YOUR explanation and it's tripe.

[red5angel]

MP, when you get your thesis done I'd like to take a look-see.

[David Jamieson]

I've seen YOUR explanation and it's tripe.

really? how so?

How do you figure the formation of a criminal organization, with criminal intent such as the bike gangs, gangs, mafioso are the same as an organization that see's terrorism as a final response to a perceived oppression of their people?

Let's see now, criminal gangs do what they do to garner power and money with as little effort as possible.

Your average terrorist organization spends it's money to attempt to defend their religious or political ideological tenets.

I am not seeing the likeness. I'm sure you'll score well on your thesis so long as your prof is like minded.

[Merryprankster]

Red,

Shoot me a pm.

[rogue]

KL, how many bikers are trying to smuggle bombs across the borders? Slight difference. But you might be surprised how intertwined the drug trade is with terrorist groups. Been that way for years.

MP, Let us know if you publish your paper anywhere.

[red5angel]

But you might be surprised how intertwined the drug trade is with terrorist groups.

you mean Afghanistan wasn't producing opium in large quantities for medicinal purposes?! :eek:

[rogue]

Bigger web than that red.

[David Jamieson]

Careful where you point that finger Rogue.

yes bikers bomb each other, across borders.
Check out past issues of Quebec newspapers for activities related to the Hells and the Rock Machine in Montreal.

Also, I give you the Iran/Contra scandal under the drugs for guns heading. I believe Mr. Reagan had a "can't recollect" hand in that.

Now here's a weird one, when the Taliban took power they systematically set about destroying the poppy fields in afghanistan. If only they hadn't destroyed those permanent (get it? :p)buddha statues and practiced their eye for an eye harsh laws in a lawless land.

Today? It's business as usual in another realm of chaos brought to you by foreign war!

I would imagine that seeing as it is the west that has the seemingly insatiable drug problem, the terrorists don't have much of a problem taking their money for the drugs.

Now what I can't figure out is with all the FLIR, Termal Cams, Coast guards, Awacs, Strict patrols and boarding etal is how the heck does the flow of Cocaine and Narcotics not stop into the west?

It seems like the harder they hit at it, the more they fail! amazing.

[rogue]

You win again KL. :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

man,

I fail to understand how a bunch of supposed martial artists cannot understand the concept of yin and yang in all things. :p

Too much "this is right and this is wrong".
Not enough question from boths sides and question everything and even then, continue to question.

[MoreMisfortune]

im losing my patience with you yankees

[scotty1]

Actually, it's home invasions you need to worry about, as the Brit subjects have no right to defend themselves.

Are you equating the right to bear arms with the right to defend yourself or your property?

[Kristoffer]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
"We could move to England...all we'd have to worry about is drive by debating."

"Oh Nigel!.....I DISAGREE!"


LMFAO

[scotty1]

This is interesting, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4224473.stm

[l@zylee]

from the above link

But knocking someone unconscious then killing them or hurting them further, or setting a trap for an intruder without involving the police were given as examples of "excessive and gratuitous" force.

Knocking someone unconsious then killing them is surely rather excessive even for the yanks! ;) setting a trap? I think if your burgled regularly as some people are I think its reasonable!

I suppose in the US your entitled to let loose with a M16 if an intruder enters you property right?;)

Lee

[David Jamieson]

I suppose in the US your entitled to let loose with a M16 if an intruder enters you property right?

It depends which state you are in...but yes. :(

[rogue]

They included a man who laid in wait for a burglar on commercial premises in Cheshire, before beating him up, throwing him into a pit and setting him on fire. That took some effort. Lighting a guy on fire is a little over the top, and goes against the Kyoto Treaty.

[rogue]

quote:I suppose in the US your entitled to let loose with a M16 if an intruder enters you property right?

Originally posted by Kung Lek
It depends which state you are in...but yes. :(

KL puts out tea and biscuits for them. Which state lets me own a M16? I'd rather have an M-4 or an MP5 PDW for home defense but I could live with an M-16.

[red5angel]

It depends which state you are in...but yes.

There's not a state in the US that allows this for this the most part. However, if you shoot and kill someone with reasonable cause in some states you can get off. Shooting someone for trespassing however isn't legal in any state north of Hawaii.

[David Jamieson]

Red-

In several states, if an intruder enters your property, and -YOU- feel it is their intention to do you harm or injury, you may by law shoot them and it would be considered a justifiable homicide.

You may also possess an fully automatic firearm in many states in teh US now and so, if you have a witness. Then all there is is a dead body and you and your witness saying what is what.

ergo: you can legally shoot someone on your proerty in several states in the USA. By the letter of the law. Weird, but nevertheless true.

[norther practitioner]

yes bikers bomb each other, across borders.Check out past issues of Quebec newspapers for activities related to the Hells and the Rock Machine in Montreal.





Candian bikers don't count.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Red-

In several states, if an intruder enters your property, and -YOU- feel it is their intention to do you harm or injury, you may by law shoot them and it would be considered a justifiable homicide.
. In Texas, it's called the "make my day" law. No ****.

[rogue]

You may also possess an fully automatic firearm in many states in teh US now and so, if you have a witness. Which states? You need a special license to even own a full auto.

[red5angel]

you may by law shoot them and it would be considered a justifiable homicide.

That's not entirely true, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt for the most part. It's a catch all and I've heard the "if it's you against a dead gys word..." argument but it rarely happens for a reason.

As for owning fully automatics, Rogues right, as far as I know you are required by federal law to get a special license to own a fully automatic.

[rogue]

And I don't think it's a license just anybody can get.

[MasterKiller]

It's called a Class III license. A normal everyday Joe is unable to obtain one.

[David Jamieson]

It is akin to a collectors license.

But let's not be so short sighted to think there aren't unregistered and illegal guns floating around in the US.

[Meat Shake]

"Which state lets me own a M16?"

Texas most certainly does. Go to the monthly gun show at the atrium on broadway and loop 410 in san antonio and you can find pretty much any kind of gun, knife, billy club, sword, spikey brass knuckles, ammo, or any other "illegal" item you want.
Even sterling silver DE .50 with 24 karat gold inlays.
:)

And yes, in texas you can do just about anything short of torcher an intruder in your residence. I used to keep a heavy lead pipe near the door for such purposes, and various other weapons about the house in indescernable places.

As long as you own the gun you can shoot a trespasser with it. Even if someone is in your front lawn if you "percieve threat" you can gladly hit them with a bat. (So long as you can prove you were threatened)