ATTN Red

[Ray Pina]

I just got back from class and its late (midnight) but I thought about my last post to you and I think I may have given the wrong impression. We have a lot of new blood at our school and they have experience but its long on theory (some of it very abstract) but short on real practicality. But they're punching a lot harder and shielding well already so I say in 16 months many of them will be game.

But when I talk about guts I mean something like this: Master Scott Rodell I think his name is (he's from the DC area and known for his swordsmanship, recently published a book and you can find him at swordforum.com) visited our school about a year and change ago with some students for a friendly get together. Now, because of their style of swordsmanship they woul not use the standard shinei -- they insisted on using their own, solid wood straight swords (boken). I would not have played under those conditions. But my master's daughter, at 5 feet, 100lbs, she played quite succesfully against each of these grown men. To me, that's guts.

You don't hear much about our school or my master (which is funny, because people in the NYC area definitely know who he is, and you know how quick people are to post smack over the littelest thing) but he's a quiet man and doesn't promote sport fighting. I'm the only one interested in that sort of thing to be honest. But people come all the time. And his disciples are all very quiet and gentle. But if push comes to shove they will play, but they've been trained to go all out, not used gloves and to them, not poking you in the eye or kicking you in the balls is gentlemanly -- expect every other possible thing.

Anyway, I didn't want to seam like I was selling the school short. And also, I thought about you a few weeks ago and we were doing anti ground work (we're more into anti throw than throwing, anti kick, than kicking, etc. etc.) and thought, "You know who would apreciate this? Red."

Seriously, if you're ever in NY please stop by. Let's put all our past drama behind us -- I think you'd apreciate my master's no bull$hit aproach. He's very nice and very practical and intelligent. He doesn't lie to his students. He'll tell you what he can and can't do and allow you to try it on him full power.

Anyway, have a good night or most likely good day when you see this.

peace
Ray Pina

[Strangler]

why do you care so much about sport fighting if you still havent developed as a fighter yet, and don't have the skills required to do well in sport fighting (judging by the way you described that one fight awhile back).

Also, I heard your amster doesn't teach e chuan much anymore but is concentrating on bagua + hsing yi, correct?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
Anyway, I didn't want to seam like I was selling the school short. And also, I thought about you a few weeks ago and we were doing anti ground work (we're more into anti throw than throwing, anti kick, than kicking, etc. etc.) Clinching and groundwork is anti-clinching and anti-groundwork. There is no anti-grapple. There is only the grapple.

Kinda like someone using the term reverse-discrimination -- there's no such thing. It's all discrimination.

[red5angel]

Efist, no problem, to be honest I didn't see your reply until I saw this post :D
I wasn't taking a shot at you although it may have seemed like it, it's just that martial artists, more then any other type of person I associate with, tend to make sweeping comments abotu other types of martial artists that I think sometimes really miss the point. You probably didn't mean, what I may have implied by my post but on the internet things can be read incorrectly and people could get the wrong impression from you. For example I bet most of the people I seem to get into arguments with on this forum I'd probably get along with really well in person, excetpo maybe KL, but after a good ass whoopin I migt be able to even get along with him ;)

I understand what you're saying about guts though, and I probably agree with you that most "martial artist" don't really have it. I say that because in the classes I've taken that involved some real fighting type situations, most people end up dropping out or just not coming back. Even in Capoeira where the contact is mostly incidental, the hard work scares more people off then attracts.

I personally don't get it and it's one of my biggest contentions with CMA and most other TMA's. Like you and others on this forum, I look at most TMA people as "weak" when it comes to actual fighting skills. I like to try to keep it real and admit when I come across someone with more skill then I in TMA, as a fighter. I know a few who could take me no doubt about it, and a few more that could go toe to toe with me pretty evenly. That's not saying I have a lot of skill, just that the majority of the TMA folks I've personally met, don't have what it takes to stand up in a fight with anyone they don't phsyically completely dominate.


MK - I know what he's talking about and I don't think I necessary completely agree with you on the clinching and grappling as the only anti clinching and grappling. It might be a matter of semantics but there are ways to stop some types of grappling, takedown, and clinch attacks without having to engage in that sort of thing, technically speaking. Of course some of the best anti grapple stuff is obviously going to be grapple work of your own but I thing in some cases you handle it form the perspective of your arts approach to fighting.

[Ray Pina]

Call it what you want. A missle that shoots down an incoming missle is an anti-missile missle to me.

Strangler, I am interested in sport fighting because I see the beauty of my masters style and I know for it to gain true legitamacy in the vast publics eye someone needs to go out and do well in nationally recognized, no bull**** events.

As for my last fight, I was beaten. I did a lot of things well (in the video not one blow or kick landed on me) but a couple things I did purely were taken advantage of (I was clinched and swept at least 3 or 4 times which exhuasted me) .... and that's the sign of a more experienced fighter. That was my first time fighting in a ring under those rules and conditions.

Since then, I have worked a lot of not being clinched. I have also worked on how to manage my energy better and have also dropped 10 to 15 lbs. I am very much looking forward to my next fight, and I'm use to fighting guys 220+.... I think guys 185 to 190 will have a hell of a time fighting with me.

But, like I said, I am also a member of that school. For that one loss there has several wins. I post losses to drive myself and get feedback. (Posting a victory is in poor taste and degrades the other). Also, I prefer to fight bear knuckle where the action continues no matter where it goes.

I am always interested to play with anyone under those conditions, but right now I am focusing on getting my tools better so I can compete anmd do well in San Da, that is mt focus and they have some very talented, dedicated fighters there. A win there means something to me. I'm hoping my master gives me the nod soon. Right now I'm in the best shape of my life and its still winter and have cut back on the surfing. I'm like 197lbs. By the end of summer I could reasonably be 185 as a fight weight. Like I said, I would put very good money on me in that weight class.
....
My master certainly teaches E-Chuan, it just depends on who's there at the time. There is a lot of Ba Gua, Hsing-I and Taiji in there. So no matter what we're training it builds the foundation.

For example, last night we were doing pushhands, but my master prefers Hsing-I footwork over Taiji footwork because taiji's front leg can be trapped easier when it steps back.

[Strangler]

Id like to see videos of your fights, I havent seen them yet.

Also, what kinds od techniques or footwork or anything are unique to your style that you actually displayed? Because most people wont care about your style or give it credit for being sueful unless it doesn't look like muay thai or mma. Than theyll say you used kickboxing or reverted to brawling and your style was useless.