Anybody here from Appalachia mountains?

[Strangler]

I'm just curious why I haven't met anyone online that lvies in or around the Appalachia mountains? I have questions regarding the life there. Why the people are poor there and how despite the fact that people are poor there is so little crime? It basically seems like a redneck/hick ghetto but without the inncercity crime and gangs.

[wdl]

I live in East Tenn in Grainger Co. Very small populous. There is an extreme of poorness to wealth with a middle class built in. Alot of people living in shacks a few people living on Cherokee Lake in mansions.

Why the people are poor here. Number one reason is lack of education. Generally speaking the lack of education combined with the ability to draw a monthly check is the main reason. Where is the motivation to work when the familiy property has been handed down to you and you don't have a mortgage but your not educated to enough to get a job over $7.00 an hour.

Reasons for lack of education are many. Alot of it can be blamed on the schools, although the state in recent years has taken giant strides. Even taking over one local county's school system completely and reorganizing it. They were having fund raisers for toilet paper for the middle school when the super of education had a brand new 60k tractor on his farm. The state budget to the country alone was 16M not including federal money. Total population of county is only 6500. So, obviously status of the scenerio had to be rectified. The other main reason for lack of education is the parents. Until recently most parents didn't think it was necessary for all of their children to have a complete education. Alot of times only the oldest was allowed to finish high school. Then there are just alot of lazy parents, basically the ones collecting a check, that don't make their children work at it. I've seen people still in high school at the age of 20. Eventually they just give them a diploma and send them on their way.

So little crime? Well, there are several main reasons for this as well. First one would be Christianity closely followed by everyone having a gun. You just don't break into someones house or steal something here unless your high and aren't aware of the consequences. Because there are poor uneducated people crime is still a factor. Drunk driving, drug abuse, etc. I wouldn't see it as "little crime" really, there still could be less. It's just relative to big towns.

I wouldn't call it a redneck/hick ghetto. There is a distinguishing factor between rural appalacia and the ghetto. Someone who is dirt poor can live right next to a millionaire who made his/her money honestly and be best friends. It's an odd culture in that respect.

-Will

[Stranger]

I've taught in TN, not the Appalachian part, but near enough to know a little history of the region. Google search the "TVA".

A lack of electrcitiy in rural areas was a major contributing factor to low education and poor health in these regions. Some parts of Appalachia are only a couple of genereations away from 19th century technology and living.

PS There is crime in Appalachia, maybe not Crips and Bloods, but not all violent groups wear blue or red.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Although i live in Florida, now.. i grew up in Elizabethton Tenn. (Carter County).. One noticable quality is that the land carries with it a noticable spirituality.. many people with many backgrounds share a common respect for the land itself.. regardless of status, this common respect for the land negates much of the violence seen in urban settings.. sure, there are still the usual personality conflicts, ideological conflicts , and the occasional nasty guys, but.. in the end, a healthy respect for life itself seems to be a theme that contributes to the diminished crime rates in this region.. There is also a pretty solid sense community in "them thar hills".. though you may not get along with someone, if they suffer misfortune you put aside differences in a genuine demonstration of human compassion, you simply help.. as you may have noticed, i have a deep liking for the southern mountains and will retire there.. although, i do find an almost equal favor for the Pacific Northwest..

Another nice quality is the spirituality lends itself to martial arts training and discipline..

Be well..

[wdl]

Originally posted by Stranger
A lack of electrcitiy in rural areas was a major contributing factor to low education and poor health in these regions. Some parts of Appalachia are only a couple of genereations away from 19th century technology and living.
[/B]

The history of East Tenn and the rest of Tenn are two different animals. TVA played a major roll in both yes, but East Tenn is vastly different from West Tenn while Middle Tenn is sort of inbetween.

I don't buy into lack of electricity being a major factor. People were educated in more populated areas before electricity. You have to understand the remoteness of the region and how little change is liked. For example, a church near where I grew up doesn't allow musical instruments. When asked why they don't have a piano, the response given was: "our church has never had a piano so we won't have one either". The church was founded in the early 1800s, there wasn't a way to get a piano to the church then. I would attribute poor health more to a lack of education as well. I've seen alot of improper food handling, etc. People also didn't know not to drink from a spring down hill from the cattle pasture. Things the "modern" world of the late 1800s knew, but people here knew little of. Science didn't make it's way into East Tenn really until the army corp of engineers and TVA started building dams and the Manhattan Project built nukes.

-Will

[wdl]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

Although i live in Florida, now.. i grew up in Elizabethton Tenn. (Carter County).. One noticable quality is that the land carries with it a noticable spirituality.. many people with many backgrounds share a common respect for the land itself.. regardless of status, this common respect for the land negates much of the violence seen in urban settings.. sure, there are still the usual personality conflicts, ideological conflicts , and the occasional nasty guys, but.. in the end, a healthy respect for life itself seems to be a theme that contributes to the diminished crime rates in this region.

Be well..


Well said Bob.

-Will

[The Willow Sword]

I'm just curious why I haven't met anyone online that lvies in or around the Appalachia mountains?


well probably because none of them have computers in those really rural areas.

In the old colonial times these were the poorest of the poor that just isolated themselves from everything. so isolated in fact that their own populous dwindled and the act of inbreeding took place,and further isolated those people from anything modern or civilized.

Movies like "deliverance" and "Nell" seek to project a bad light on those people,in my opinion. However i feel that simple people have simple means and simple needs and wants. i mean they lived off the land and had their game plentiful,,,so i would not think that they starved much,,just that they succomed to sickness and did not have the right medicines to help (even herbal knowledge escaped most of them)thats your lack of education right there. and of course the mental retardation and defects due to the inbreeding.

hey i am from Kentucky and i come from the poor scottish/irish/cherokee roots, so i feel a kind of kinship with all those folk from the appalacha( minus the inbreeding of course:eek: ) So i have nothing but respect for the isolationists that may still live in those hills and mountain ranges.

PEACE,,,TWS

[BM2]

Some things that WDL said I agree with as only a visitor to the area. Although I live in KY, eastern KY and where I live have nothing in common, for the most part.
I went down there to buy a AR-15 and when I came into town I noticed that the majority of signs had the company's favorite Bible verse on it. The man that sold me the AR-15 could have gotten much more for it as they had just been banned but he said he wasn't going to take advantage of anyone. Heck, the gun shop was setup in a former gas station. I saw it and thought " Filler 'er up and give me a box of .45 acp !"
But my Mom grew up in a very rual area in Western KY. No electricity, running water. My Grandfather and Great-Grandfather farmed with a horse. And they had no car when my Mom was a little girl, they used a horse drawn wagon to go to town where the purchases were put on credit to be paid off when the crops were in. A spring house was used to keep the food cool. And I never could understand why we were never food posioned from the drippings cup she used as she cooked just like her Mom. Guessed the heat killed everything.

Something my instructor told all of us about the people of Eastern KY from the hills, they spar very aggrasive and are kinda of nuts. So you see even in KY they are sterotyped.

[Radhnoti]

I live in south eastern KY, very much Appalachia. wdl was on target, in my experience. The welfare system and other government subsidies have really damaged my community. In fact, I have a sister-in-law who feels she CAN'T go get a job. She'd lose her "medical card" if she did so, and she's afraid she wouldn't be able to pay for her kids doctor/hospital/dentist bills. Even college will be (in the main) paid for her kids if she doesn't get a job. I suppose that a similar and related issue is the lack of any real (meaning livable) jobs. An 8 dollar per hour job is one you'd be crazy to leave in most folks opinion. Many of "our" folks who go to college find it necessary to leave the area to find work. The largest "good" employer in my area is the local school system, they're also the most powerful political machine...making one of the only area's college-graduate jobs a very "in-crowd" proposition. Jobs are often granted for political favors and/or to specific well-connected families.

About crime...I live 30 minutes from the nearest town, and 45 minutes from any emergency response (hard to find I suppose). I know of VERY few people who live without a firearm in their home. The primary crime issue, in my area, are drug makers/dealers and addicts. On occasion, the folks who sit around all day "drawing a check" decide to supplement their income or lifestyle by engaging in some aspect of the drug trade. After all, they've got the time and police presence (assuming you keep your head low) is practically nonexistant. Meth labs are run from isolated sections of the local national forest, or on unclaimed property with heirs in different states (gone to find work).

I strongly disagree with TWS's assessment that "inbreeding" has created a large number of handicapped individuals. My family has worked with TMH (trainable mentally handicapped) kids for years. The statistics I've seen indicate that Appalachian school systems have no more special needs kids than the more urban areas, and (admittedly anecdotal) personal experience has led me to believe that quite a few of those kids have their handicaps because their folks were doing drugs during pregnancy.

[red5angel]

The Cherokee on my mothers side own tons of land in West Virginia and Kentucky. I spent quite a bit of time in West Virginia as a child. I don't recall seeing any real examples of the backwoods types, or hillbillies really. There were some poor areas and some strange types in the back hills but for the most part they're jus simple people.
As for crime, it's there, but you don't hear about it because alot of that stuff is sort of kept in the community, or just doesn't make the news like violence in the citeis and burbs do.

As for poverty I think it's a combination of things. W. Virinia is a depressed economy because it relies on coal and oil production and refining and that seems to sort of go up and down all the time. Those guys don't get a paid a whole lot in the first place and job security just isn't there.
In the hills, as I said they live simply. A lot of them still grow or raise most of their own food. They often barter with each other for the things they need or they do labor type work from time to time to pick up some cash ehre and there.

[Judge Pen]

WDL is correct. I grew up in Southwestern Virginia and it doesn't get more Appalachian then that. My dad was an uneducated coalminer and is still one of the smartest people that I know. Just not well educated and very set in his ways. Negative stereotypes sting, but they exist because they can be true to some extent--just not to the extent that some people believe them to be.

I went on to receive a better education because I didn't want to mine coal like my father. The educational opportunities are there now, and the culture is slowly warming up to them.

Oh, and the crime is there, it's just not the violent headlining crime. Lots of substance abuse crimes.

[Ming Yue]

... and domestic abuse crime as well.

I live in western north carolina, and while there are still pocket communities that are very cloistered and relatively underdeveloped, you just don't see barefoot folks with overalls and a bit of hay hanging out of thier mouths, which is the image I think you are thinking of, Strangler.

The country people here are surprisingly tolerant because they themselves value thier privacy and freedom. I often say Asheville is a nice mix of redneck & hippie, and they rarely get into each other's business. both groups exhibit tolerance and a respect for the area's history and culture. It's the wealthy transplants that get uppity with the drum circles and look down thier noses at the country people.

The uneducated poor in this area are by and large very hard working people - many didn't finish high school, I have had at least one customer who come to me for design work (business cards for example) who couldn't read. He does, however, have a computer in his house that his kids use.

Everything changes eventually.

[The Willow Sword]

I strongly disagree with TWS's assessment that "inbreeding" has created a large number of handicapped individuals.

uhh if you go back and reread my statement i never made any such comment. i simply made the comment that it is prevalent in those societies.


My family has worked with TMH (trainable mentally handicapped) kids for years

no offense to you Rad but i dont like that term "trainable mentally handicapped" makes it seem like they are circus animals that can be trained or something to that extent. maybe a better more dignified choice of terms is better in my opinion.





personal experience has led me to believe that quite a few of those kids have their handicaps because their folks were doing drugs during pregnancy.


yes that is a factor as well.

Peace,,TWS

[Radhnoti]

TWS,

TMH is the term used (or at least previously used) by the local school systems, it indicates that the kids are expected to be able to learn in a structured school setting. Not my term, petition the NEA. :)

Sorry if I misread your other point(s).

Take care.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Please read the books "The Redneck Manifesto" and "Born Fighting" both are amazing looks into the truth about this very malinged social class.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Please read the books "The Redneck Manifesto" and "Born Fighting" both are amazing looks into the truth about this very malinged social class.

What's the cliff-notes version? Positive of Negative?

Embarrassing confession: Check out the article, IN the Heart of Appalachia, in the February 1993 National Geographic magazine. My picture is there. :D They caught me flirting with a cheerleader during a pep rally for my high school's homecoming parade! Anyway, I disagreed with the overall tone of the article. Focused too much on the negative and gave a skewered look at this area.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Positive and extremely well documented and researched.

[Judge Pen]

I'll have to check them out.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I'd recommend TRM first as it tackles more of a general history and then the modern problems, social issues, etc..

"BF" is deeper in history and details. but less current to social commentary etc..

btw I'm Appalacian thru & thru. born on a farm, dad is a coal miner, graduated from a class of less than 60 kids in the poorest county in Ohio (bordering on the WVA, PA Ohio valley region) west of Pittsburgh.

[Strangler]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
well probably because none of them have computers in those really rural areas.

In the old colonial times these were the poorest of the poor that just isolated themselves from everything. so isolated in fact that their own populous dwindled and the act of inbreeding took place,and further isolated those people from anything modern or civilized.

Movies like "deliverance" and "Nell" seek to project a bad light on those people,in my opinion. However i feel that simple people have simple means and simple needs and wants. i mean they lived off the land and had their game plentiful,,,so i would not think that they starved much,,just that they succomed to sickness and did not have the right medicines to help (even herbal knowledge escaped most of them)thats your lack of education right there. and of course the mental retardation and defects due to the inbreeding.

hey i am from Kentucky and i come from the poor scottish/irish/cherokee roots, so i feel a kind of kinship with all those folk from the appalacha( minus the inbreeding of course:eek: ) So i have nothing but respect for the isolationists that may still live in those hills and mountain ranges.

PEACE,,,TWS

Do they buy or build their own houses than? And pay for property, mortgage, land etc.?

[red5angel]

btw I'm Appalacian thru & thru. born on a farm, dad is a coal miner, graduated from a class of less than 60 kids in the poorest county in Ohio (bordering on the WVA, PA Ohio valley region) west of Pittsburgh.

out of curiosity where exactly ST00? I was born in Ashland Kentucky and spent most of my time in that area in Huntington W.Va. I still have a ton of relatives in the tri-state area.

[Judge Pen]

There's only two things from Oklahoma. . . . .

[ShaolinTiger00]

Originally posted by red5angel
out of curiosity where exactly ST00? I was born in Ashland Kentucky and spent most of my time in that area in Huntington W.Va. I still have a ton of relatives in the tri-state area.

I grew up of a farm near the village of Cadiz Ohio. Most men either worked in steel mills or coal mines. - rust belt.

[ShaolinTiger00]

( minus the inbreeding of course )

This is exactly why people should read "the redneck manifesto"

as it shows that inbreeding occurs in every class of society, but in fact it happens much more commonly amongst the top tier.

(British royalty anyone?)

[Strangler]

Originally posted by Radhnoti
I live in south eastern KY, very much Appalachia. wdl was on target, in my experience. The welfare system and other government subsidies have really damaged my community. In fact, I have a sister-in-law who feels she CAN'T go get a job. She'd lose her "medical card" if she did so, and she's afraid she wouldn't be able to pay for her kids doctor/hospital/dentist bills. Even college will be (in the main) paid for her kids if she doesn't get a job. I suppose that a similar and related issue is the lack of any real (meaning livable) jobs. An 8 dollar per hour job is one you'd be crazy to leave in most folks opinion. Many of "our" folks who go to college find it necessary to leave the area to find work. The largest "good" employer in my area is the local school system, they're also the most powerful political machine...making one of the only area's college-graduate jobs a very "in-crowd" proposition. Jobs are often granted for political favors and/or to specific well-connected families.

About crime...I live 30 minutes from the nearest town, and 45 minutes from any emergency response (hard to find I suppose). I know of VERY few people who live without a firearm in their home. The primary crime issue, in my area, are drug makers/dealers and addicts. On occasion, the folks who sit around all day "drawing a check" decide to supplement their income or lifestyle by engaging in some aspect of the drug trade. After all, they've got the time and police presence (assuming you keep your head low) is practically nonexistant. Meth labs are run from isolated sections of the local national forest, or on unclaimed property with heirs in different states (gone to find work).

I strongly disagree with TWS's assessment that "inbreeding" has created a large number of handicapped individuals. My family has worked with TMH (trainable mentally handicapped) kids for years. The statistics I've seen indicate that Appalachian school systems have no more special needs kids than the more urban areas, and (admittedly anecdotal) personal experience has led me to believe that quite a few of those kids have their handicaps because their folks were doing drugs during pregnancy.

I thought the welfare system was changed by Clinton to only last 2 years or so or until your kids grow a certain age?

[Stranger]

I don't buy into lack of electricity being a major factor. People were educated in more populated areas before electricity.


It is more than the electricity. True, people were educated in more populated areas before electricity, but that requires burning lamp oil. Wasting fuel on reading light was considered a luxury in early 20th century TN. A person would work all day, manual labor, and have little money to show for it. After getting home, tired as hell, it took a spendthrift to start burning wages to curl up with a good book.

It is also true that electricity brings radio to the region, a surefire way to raise the awareness of the people to the world outside the TN Valley.

This last one will p1ss off some of the farmers out there, but no electricity equaled no refrigeration. No refrigereation equals poor nutrition in an overall sense, even for people living on food-crop farms. Poor nutrition is linked to a host of developmental problems in young children that definitely shape a childs learning potential. Infant mortality and life expectancy in this region were both impacted by the lack of electricity.

Manmade lakes are all over TN (East, West, and Middle), the only natural lake in the whole state is Reelfoot. Those lakes are there for a reason- hydroelectric power to bring TN into the 20th century.

[The Willow Sword]

Do they buy or build their own houses than? And pay for property, mortgage, land etc.?

in the more secluded rural areas,,i really do not know. i guess the answer to that would have to come from the local town or city archives as to WHO and WHEN those tracts of land were given or claimed. would be interetsing to find that out though.


PEACE,,,TWS

[Judge Pen]

Most people that I know bought their house. I do know people who are talented enough carpenters to build their own homes (and they had elcectricity, phones, and running water and everything!) That's not different than a contractor building his own house in any other area. Most of these sterotypes are seriously outdated.

[red5angel]

in the more secluded rural areas,,i really do not know. i guess the answer to that would have to come from the local town or city archives as to WHO and WHEN those tracts of land were given or claimed. would be interetsing to find that out though.


I agree with JP, in my experience most people bought their homes. thats why mobile homes and small shacks are popular as well, since those who do build their homes foten don't have the money to build nice places.
Also, I think most people own the land and it's sort of passed down from generation to generation. Alot of this has changed, even in the 18 years that I have been gone.

[Judge Pen]

Trailers are to rural areas as apartments are to metroplitan areas. Cheap housing.

[Ground Dragon]

Im from Ky, not a rural part, but have many relatives and know and work with some people who are from eastern ky, plus my significant other is from Huntington WV and has many relatives from rural parts of that state.
The crystal meth epidemic is inflicting lots of pain in rural areas and that's on top of the prescription drug problem.
Lots of hardship but even being the left wing liberal I am, I really do appreciate the type of people this region produces. I don't see eye to eye with many of my relatives, but they are good people.

[wdl]

Originally posted by Stranger
[B]After getting home, tired as hell, it took a spendthrift to start burning wages to curl up with a good book.

Once again not reading causes a lack in education. :)
Aside from that liquid lamp oil is made out of paraffin wax a common tool used in the canning process.

Ice: Railroad towns had ice delivery, even alot of small towns in East Tenn had railroads because of coal being brought out of Virginia down to the river. So... yes it might have been a "luxury" item to some extent, but alot of people still had ice delivered to their homes that were within proximity to towns. Poor nutrition is still directly linked to what you eat. So, if you know that two day old milk is sour, don't drink it. People still drink milk warm from the cow yanno. Somethings haven't changed.

Yes, manmade lakes all over the place. Bigger reason for manmade lakes than electricity: Flood Control. Who cares how much power you can generate when Knoxville, Tenn can't use it. Trust me there is a LOT of water that goes through that town and at the mouth of the Tennessee river. If it wasn't for Cherokee and Douglas dams combined with the upstream dams from their, Knoxville might not have made it into this millenia.

This will be my last post on this thread concerning yourself. Since you wanted to "know more" but seem to have enough "knowledge" to troll the subject I'm quiting. Your an admitted troublemaker on other forums and I'm not going to add to your reputation.

-Will

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
There's only two things from Oklahoma. . . . . 7 time national champions and Joan Crawford???

[wdl]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
... and domestic abuse crime as well.

I live in western north carolina, and while there are still pocket communities that are very cloistered and relatively underdeveloped, you just don't see barefoot folks with overalls and a bit of hay hanging out of thier mouths, which is the image I think you are thinking of, Strangler.

Everything changes eventually.

Ming, Excellent post.

Your assessment of Asheville is dead on from what time I've spent over there. Nice town with good beer. But hippies still p|ss me off sometimes. Can't stand the smell. :)

Western North Carolina has developed alot further than some of the remote areas of Eastern Tenn. Especially those close to Kentucky and Va. Within the last ten years all of the kids in the local school systems here seem to finally have shoes without holes in them for winter use. When I moved here in 95(from outside B'ham AL) as a freshman in highschool there were still a few that hadn't been completely shod. The uneducated people here that aren't living off the rest of us are very hardworking and very good people as other have touched on as well. A very hardy group of folk that are pleasant to have as neighbors.

Seems to me like stranger thinks we're all still stuck in the stone ages around here. I live in a little town(Bean Station, interesting history behind the name) with one redlight where the city court judge uses a folding table for his bench. I kid not, it's the funniest thing. We've had broadband here via cable for several years and within the past year both telecoms have brought in DSL(one end of town isn't serviced by Bell South). Look at the technology in Knoxville, go sneak around the Union Station building if you can get past security. Multiple OC-128s and rumor has it an OC-768 into Atlanta within the next year. There are several co-location facilities with more OC-12s than you can shake a stick at. Granted it's nothing compared to Atlanta/New York/Chicago, etc. But your talking about Knoxville, Tenn, populous 300,000 in the city limits. Somebody's using up all that bandwidth. Tri-Cities of Kingsport/Bristol/Johnson City has plenty of junk too.

JP can verify, Bean Station is a hole in the wall, but dang it, I've got broadband. :)

-Will

[Strangler]

what's the difference than between people that live in trailer parks in the suburbs and the poor mountain range people of Appalachie? ANd why do those goups breed less criminals and crime and violence than inner cities? Also why do young tough guys that live or used to live in a low income neighboorhood in the inner city always hype it up like its some sort of war zone and act tough? Same thing with the media. Sorry about all these questions I'm just curious.

[Stranger]

This will be my last post on this thread concerning yourself. Since you wanted to "know more" but seem to have enough "knowledge" to troll the subject I'm quiting. Your an admitted troublemaker on other forums and I'm not going to add to your reputation.


Please read carefully the posters' names. I am "Stranger"; the person who started this thread is a new guy named "StrangL er.

So, I did not ask any questions of you, I gave the thread starter what I know. My knowledge is based on my time professionally teaching TN Geography and History and the textbook, provided for and printed in the state of TN, and every Appalachian museum I've ever wandered into.

I don't think TN was in the Stone Age, but if you think it was as developed as the rest of the country, I'm going to chalk it up to TN pride.

If you studied any history on any topic or time period, you know that there are many theories behind almost every historical event and the cause and effect that got people there. We see this differently. I don't need to argue with you, I've never trolled this board in over five years. If you are getting mad at me, let's call it a day.

[wdl]

Originally posted by Stranger
Please read carefully the posters' names. I am "Stranger"; the person who started this thread is a new guy named "StrangL er.


LOL, I apologize I didn't notice the name difference Strangler is the self admitted troll. Yes this area didn't develop like the rest of the country. Alot of rural people around where I live didn't have electricity until the 50s and 60s. Most of the small towns had juice alot earlier. Isolation tends to develop an area differently than the rest of the population as well. Basically my point boils down to the fact that electricity in usable form is still a relatively modern application of science. People lived to be old before electricity but some died in their 40s because they couldn't get their teeth pulled. Look at George Washington's struggle with his chompers. It's hit and miss. Life was just what it was before electricity, those who had never been out of the hills didn't know any better. They are still finding people that have never been off their mountain in Harlan Co. Kentucky. There alot of people there that still have never left the county, only been to town. Development can't happen unless people find out there is something better.

The lag in development has got to be attributed to alot more than electricity. Power polls spread across the United States from the late 1800s through modern day. By the end of the 60s though a strong majority of the US had juice. That's a 70 year industrial development track that's very impressive. So some got it later than others, why aren't other regions of the country that didn't juice until the 20s and 30s, only some 30 years difference, exponentially ahead of rural appalachia? That's a slim generation gap to fix malnutrition and other developmental problems. I still have to chalk up education and isolation as the two biggest reasons.

-Will

[wdl]

Originally posted by Strangler
what's the difference than between people that live in trailer parks in the suburbs and the poor mountain range people of Appalachie? ANd why do those goups breed less criminals and crime and violence than inner cities? Also why do young tough guys that live or used to live in a low income neighboorhood in the inner city always hype it up like its some sort of war zone and act tough? Same thing with the media. Sorry about all these questions I'm just curious.

Real suburbs have trailer parks? Never knew that.

Because being "tough" isn't needed to "survive". Atleast not in the ghetto sense of survive. There's always somebody here bigger than you that can whip your rear and stomp you flat. No need to act like your God's gift to the sidewalk. There can be violent crime here, it just doesn't make it past the local paper. Child molestation, drug related violence, domestic dispute, etc, are not uncommon. Small town america isn't what it once was.

You should see the redneck teenages that want to be ghetto mobsters and wear Fubu and quote puff daddy and think Snoop Doggy's their hero. I've about had to just lay down in "name any big corporate store here" and laugh a few times.

-Will

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by Strangler
what's the difference than between people that live in trailer parks in the suburbs and the poor mountain range people of Appalachie?

There is a certain pride of family history here. people who have grown up here (as certainly most working class folks have) have a pride in having history in a place, perhaps of being on thier grandparent's land. Not so much of that in the low rent suburbs.


ANd why do those goups breed less criminals and crime and violence than inner cities?

The difference is space and respect for privacy. In the city, you're not only competing for social and financial status, you're never more than 10 feet away from someone who wants to take it from you

Also why do young tough guys that live or used to live in a low income neighboorhood in the inner city always hype it up like its some sort of war zone and act tough?

Because they're young guys. They'll hype up anything they have to look tough. it's their genetic duty.

Also, to a certain extent it's true. I lived in downtown San Jose, California, on the east side, for about 2 years. During that time I saw three gang fights (two with firearms involved), six stabbings, a man beaten with a baseball bat, and a small child hit by a drunk driver.

[Strangler]

Ive been to the projects recently in L.A just to see what it's like, and it didn't seem abd to me except for some odler women that looked like they were drug addicts and some people missing teeth, and cops that tried questioning me (second time last it happened when iw ent to watts). Yet I didn't see any gangsters per se.

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by wdl
You should see the redneck teenages that want to be ghetto mobsters and wear Fubu and quote puff daddy and think Snoop Doggy's their hero. I've about had to just lay down in "name any big corporate store here" and laugh a few times.

-Will

If I see one more skinny white kid walking down the road with misplaced wal mart ghetto attitude, holding his pants on with one hand, I'm gonna jump the curb and run him down.

[Ming Yue]

Originally posted by Strangler
Ive been to the projects recently in L.A just to see what it's like, and it didn't seem abd to me except for some odler women that looked like they were drug addicts and some people missing teeth, and cops that tried questioning me (second time last it happened when iw ent to watts). Yet I didn't see any gangsters per se.

How nice for you that you can visit just to see what it's like. Maybe next time you could call ahead and ask everyone to just wear a sign so you can see some gangsters.

[Vash]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
If I see one more skinny white kid walking down the road with misplaced wal mart ghetto attitude, holding his pants on with one hand, I'm gonna jump the curb and run him down.

*Readies Medal of Valor for Ming Yue*

[BM2]

When I read about not keeping the food from spoiling and wondered why you all didn't use springhouses?
I see them in Central Ky.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I was 5 years old in 1955 in upper East Tenn. (Elizabethton) and we finally got "inside plumbing".. not that it wasn't available, we just didn't live in an area that was serviced by public systems.. Out-houses were okay except in winter and summer :) My uncle Eb once went to the outhouse on a cold winter night, turned on the kerosene heater, but forgot the matches.. he ran back to the house and upon returning struck the match and blew the outhouse to bits, himself included.. we found him smouldering in the snow, he survived with some burns and a wounded ego.. yeah, it could be a dangerous place..

People look to tough guy images because their own lives lack something.. self-confident people need no image to announce their status.. its too easy to ridicule the wannabes compared to changing a broken system.. the inner-cities are rumbling toward the "Mad-Max" scenario while the rural areas profit from the drug trade the inner-city types need to erase the conflicts within their own minds..

I once asked my older relatives (at a time when the rural life was more Mayberry-like) what the difference was compared to city life.. they agreed that independence and self-reliance was a key.. hard working rural folks knew they could survive off the land and rely on their neighbors.. city folks buy everything pre-made and have little confidence in their ability get by in a real crisis.. it is from this mentality that gangs formed and crime sprang into violence.. unable to fend for themselves, they gathered in groups for their common survival.. it is a matter of security, a basic need to feel secure in one's basic needs..

Almost all of us "hillbillies" grew up learning about simple ways to hunt and gather and preserve, how to grow food.. and how to share.. And how to dig and use a "spring-house" (fortuneately, we had a year-round flowing creek near the house, we only needed a small trough looping through the "cold-house").. it wasn't easy but it remains, to this day, a part of me that i am very fortunate to have experienced.. i don't need art on my flesh, or metal in my flesh, or visible signs of who i wish i were.. i know who i am.. that is a priceless commodity in the world i live in now.. Rural life isn't always heaven, and it can be hell.. but, for anyone willing to put their back into their living, it's hard to beat..

Be well..

[wdl]

Originally posted by BM2
When I read about not keeping the food from spoiling and wondered why you all didn't use springhouses?
I see them in Central Ky.


Plenty of springhouses around here.

-Will