cool vid

[norther practitioner]

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=wushu&width=640

[Tai Chi Shawn]

Yeah - that was cool. Although, my groin hurts just watching him.

Are Wushu and Tai Chi closely related? I saw some very familiar motions in his form. I know ALL MAs are related, but I mean do they call the motions the same names in each system? Interesting.

shawn

[Repulsive Monkey]

Wushu is NOT Taiji and Taiji is NOT Wushu.
They are not related.
Wushu is a bring and buy-sale of a lot of different things. As you could see a lot of what that bloke did has NO martial applications at all. It looked sweet but it was a very empty form, with not too much value in it.

Nice to watch, im sure a buggger to do, but in martial arts terms, that was totally useless.

[scholar]

Yah, Repulsive Monkey is correct, contemporary Wushu is not equivalent to traditional T'ai Chi Ch'uan. There is a good description of Wushu and what it entails on the online encyclopaedia "Wikipedia." Modern Wushu is based on traditional arts, including T'ai Chi, but it is for show only.

There is a branch of theatrical Wushu called "Taijiquan" where they do forms that sort of look like real T'ai Chi, but the power generation aspects are all missing. As well, there are forms which have the same or very similar names across a large range of different martial arts, external and internal but a very similar move can also have completely different names in different schools...

[lstern]

This is not wushu! It is Zhaobao taijiquan, which is closely related to Chen style.

Larry

[scholar]

Hey Larry! I know you from the yahoo Wu style group! I'm Longform there. Small world.

Unfortunately, my link to the video in question is broken for some reason, so I can't see it.

[scholar]

OK, now it works. the site must have been busy before. I agree with Larry, this is not "Wushu Taiji." It is very cool to watch, though. I'll bet the guy is in good shape!

[Brad]

There is a branch of theatrical Wushu called "Taijiquan" where they do forms that sort of look like real T'ai Chi, but the power generation aspects are all missing.
Not true at all.

[scholar]

T'ai Chi ch'uan and Taijiquan are two different ways to write the same Chinese characters, if that is what you mean. Since performance wushu is a creature of the current Chinese govt,. like the pinyin romanisation "Taijiquan" I always associate the two. Perhaps that is idiosyncratic of me...

[cam]

I believe Istern is right, that appears to be Zhaobao style. Many of the motions are quite clearly related to Chen style, though the characteristic fa jing is less apparent.
The form seemed overly showy, perhaps because it was at a tournament.. but what flexibility!!

[Shaolin Master]

That was the 'Da Jia' Large Frame of Zhao Bao Taijiquan.

Zhao Bao Taijiquan has a very reputable history and is a solid traditional martial art style with very progressive methods of imparting the essence of Taijiquan.

There are 15 frames of Zhao Bao Taijiquan from the basic (Middle, Large and Small) to the more explosive Hulei and Gongfu frames.

Regards
Wu Chan Long

[norther practitioner]

I thought it was a showyer traditional form, which is quite common.. I could see the relationship to chen.. I don't think it was "empty" the fa jing looked more how a Yang would show fa jing.

[Brad]

T'ai Chi ch'uan and Taijiquan are two different ways to write the same Chinese characters, if that is what you mean. Since performance wushu is a creature of the current Chinese govt,. like the pinyin romanisation "Taijiquan" I always associate the two. Perhaps that is idiosyncratic of me...
Well, that was part of my problem. Your "idiosyncricy" other than comunicating 100% false info, could potentially cause great confusion in any beginer or with anyone not familiar with Chinese romanization. There's a hell of a lot of good taiji quan people out there who might be more likely to write Taijiquan than T'ai Chi Ch'uan. Telling someone one is real and one is fake is a pretty dumb thing to do.

I disagree strongly with the rest of your statement too though, but don't feel like bringing up that old arguement at the moment. Maybe some other time.

[SPJ]

Cool link.

And a very low stance. Must have good foot work with the low stance. Or Xia Pan Gong Fu.

[Brad]

Personally, I think the stances are too low for him. I think he concentrates so much on getting low that he lets his back foot roll onto it's side too often and it looks like his back up through his neck tenses up too much sticking his head out and hunching his shoulders. His form is still stronger and smoother than a lot of people I've seen, but I think he'd be so much better if he'd come up higher and concentrate more on these "little" things :) These seem to be common mistakes I've seen a lot of in people practicing Chen taiji, which Zaobao taiji is a lot like. Sometimes people will get too focused on one part of their art, and loose sight of seemingly smaller(but esential) details.

[Shaolin Master]

Framework is a method of developing skill, each frame has its own purpose......the point is to be low in Dajia frame. To divert would be misconstrue the intention of the training and not develop the frame. In the end everything becomes framless but the approach to training according to the practise methods should be adhered. In Zhao bao most practitioners end up favouring their own frameless ideal, it is from that which other styles of Tajiquan evolved from Zhaobao such as Wu, Hao and Sun styles.

[Jhapa]

wow

[Roll Back]

Hello, The clip was of the Big Frame Zhaobao He Style. I have been learning and practicing the Zaobao small frame for about 14 mounths now and it is my understanding that the large frame is used when you are younger to train the body stregnth while also freeing the hips and shoulder. That is a key point in Zhaobao, is to move freely. No matter the frame size.

As far as I know Zhao Bao also does not use fajjing. When the body is free you then follow you opponent and use his energy, not your own.

The Zhao Bao He used for fighting is the small frame and it is a very strict form. Also the requirements are different from other styles thus it is hard to judge and compare clips when someone is using their style requirements.

So since I have a basic understand of Zhao Bao and I watched the clip thru Zhao Bao eyes I let me share with you what I saw;

Very Good! He is definitely at a high level and not wushu. To get that low he violates many of the small frame requirements but not that much. I would love to have his ability to go so low and apply then small frame requirements.

As I said before the Zhao Bao requirements are different and I would like to share but it must be experienced to get the perspective of my words. Until then my words would be seen thru whatever experiences the reader has in Tai Chi. I know this because I had 10 years Yang style with a little Chen and Yi Chuan before I started. Not better or worse, just different.

Here is a Zhao Bao He saying;

When you practice the form you are pushing hands
When you are pushing hands you are fighting.
When you are fighting you are doing the form.
There is no difference.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I really enjoyed the clip. Seeing it brought to mind the writings of how the Yang style was practiced-- low stances, jump kicks, quick movements, sweeps, head touching the floor; it was as if I went back in time and saw it.

Thank you for sharing,

mickey

[Shaolin Master]

Nice to meet a fellow ZhaoBao practitioner.

The expression of fajing in the fundamental methods (Medium, large and small) are not requirements, because to practise that at the begining would create enstrangement of taijiquan principles (including the endless streams of water or fluidity and the integration as one.....etc). It is here that Zhao bao differs from mainstream Chen style but shares similarities with the small frame Chen style as practised by Chen Peishan etc....

However, in the other frames such as tengnuo, gongfu and hulei it is visually present if not over and above other taijiquan methods such as chen.

Enjoy the journey.

kind regards.

[SPJ]

I would say the principles and methodology are "similar" across all styles.

And yes, the expression or emphasis may be "different".

Similarly, in Ba Gua, there are also practices of the forms in 3 levels Shang, Zhong and Xia Pan.

They are equivalent to heaven, people and earth, Tian Di Ren.

However, most people study the upper and mid level stances.

As a matter of fact, just about every school of CMA, they all have 3 levels of practice. I started a thread not too long ago.

I used to practice Tang Tui (bounce leg) on a low horse stance, too.

Tang Lang or mantis, we will be changing high, mid and low stances all the time.

On and On.

[Surf Taut]

As far as I know Zhao Bao also does not use fajjing.

From what I've seen Zhao Bao seems to express fa jing way more than most other forms of Taiji. When the form was demonstrated to me it looked extremely explosive. Not to mention when he used me as the crash test dummy to show it's application! Maybe someone who practices this style can shed some light on this


btw, very cool clip

[Roll Back]

“I would say the principles and methodology are "similar" across all styles.”

Reply) Yes that is what I thought too but though similar Zhao Bao He style is quite different. At least when I compare it with other styles I have been exposed too. Everything I have learned in training in tai chi and martial arts I have had to give up in order to learn Zhao Bao.

’And yes, the expression or emphasis may be "different".’

Reply) Yes the expression and emphasis is different but so are the principles. They are related but different.



“From what I've seen Zhao Bao seems to express fa jing way more than most other forms of Taiji. When the form was demonstrated to me it looked extremely explosive. Not to mention when he used me as the crash test dummy to show it's application! Maybe someone who practices this style can shed some light on this”


Reply) I miss posted, It should have been, “as far as I know the Small Frame Wudang Zhaobao He style from the Master Liu Riu lineage as taught to me by Wiedong Zhao has no fajing.”

Some styles of Zhao Bao due use a lot of fajing But as far as I have seen, when you punch/ hit using Zhao Bao principles as I am learning them your energy stays in your own body and does not go out.

[scholar]

Originally posted by Brad
There's a hell of a lot of good taiji quan people out there.


As long as we are pointing out dumb things others say, that one takes the prize! I love you too, Brad.

[Doug]

Wow.

Having heard the argument that low stances are not good for fighting (and sword work), I invite all the Chinese martial artists and European martial artists to watch this clip. The person in it moves very well for such low stances. He only seems to slow down when his legs are flat on the ground, but, he still recovers quickly. The way he moves reminds me of my theory and application of stance usage in Hung Gar (as I practice it): be able to do what can be done standing up the same as when in a low stance.

Am I the only one reminded of Tai Shing Pek Qwar from the stances?

The only criticism I have is that, as stated by someone else, the sole of his rear foot leaves the ground. Anyone who has trained with real martial applications in mind knows that this is a no-no.

Imagine practicing dao or jian techniques at this stance range. An even slightly higher stance would offer more mobility, and speed, as is evident, does not have to suffer.

Regardless of all criticism, thanks for the link!

Doug

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Brad
[B]Personally, I think the stances are too low for him. I think he concentrates so much on getting low that he lets his back foot roll onto it's side too often and it looks like his back up through his neck tenses up too much sticking his head out and hunching his shoulders.

I was thinking about some of those exact points as I was watching the form.

Also, why is he wearing such a bulky outfit. You really can't see what his body is doing?

Taiji is Taiji.... no matter what style you practice. You can't violate the external principles that are common to all styles or you lose the internal Jin. You're doing something that looks like Taiji on the outside but is empty on the inside.

[norther practitioner]

Also, why is he wearing such a bulky outfit. You really can't see what his body is doing?

maybe thats why...lol:D