instructors training

[packard]

Just wondered how much of the training your instructor does when he is taking a class?

Does he teach from a distance or really involved in everything from the training to the fitness??

P

[SevenStar]

they/we are involved in everything, from calesthenics to sparring. While drilling, it's hard to drill AND watch the others, so we will walk the floor during drills and technique practice. we will usually get together and drill outside of class.

[Starchaser107]

spy!:cool:

[packard]

what does that mean? Spy! Is that an insult?

p

[IronFist]

When I was going to the MMA school, our teacher would roll with us and box with us about 50-70% of the time.

Sometimes if there was an odd number of people in the class he would partner up with the odd guy. But he would also watch us and make sure we were doing it right.

[Ai Lek Ou Seun]

One thing that sucks about instructing is that you never get
as good a work out as when you wer just a student.

One thing that rocks is that you get to determine the flow of the class.

[CaptinPickAxe]

My teacher used to beat the **** out of me and laugh while he did it...



I loved it.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Ai Lek Ou Seun
One thing that sucks about instructing is that you never get
as good a work out as when you wer just a student.

One thing that rocks is that you get to determine the flow of the class.


yeah i liked being a student more, but you udnerstand the material more when you are an instructor. controlling flow is fun too.

[joedoe]

It is a fine line an instructor has to walk wrt that. On one hand, they need to train with their students and show them how to do things properly as well as to inspire the students to train hard. On the other hand, they have to supervise and make sure that all the students are instructed properly.

I personally think that the instructor's first duty is to supervise and instruct, while training with the students is a secondary.

[Starchaser107]

nope it's not an insult.

but it was however a comment you might want to mull over , especially since you aren't forthcoming with any information of your own. Are you doing market research or are you just genuinely curious sorry if i sound like an arse.

[packard]

Yep, you sounded like an arse!!

It was purely out of curiosity actually. I have two instructors, one who fully trains with us and one who does very little. Just seeing what other people do in their views about it!

P

[Starchaser107]

well it was also partially in good fun.

anyways. my instructor/s have always been involved and always take the effort and time to instruct and demonstrate to a degree that i would consider participation. I'm quite comfortable with this. And while I'm teaching people I try as best I can to participate with them. I believe that it offers a bit more credibility to the class and trust.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
I believe that it offers a bit more credibility to the class and trust.

I think that's a key point.


Of the people hear that do teach, how much time, if any do you spend actually training, and not teaching?

[Mo Lung]

Well, what joedoe said is very relevant. I like it when there's an odd number of students in my classes, as it means I get to join in on the two man drills and bagwork, etc. When there's an even amount of students I end up talking more, because I see more errors, and everybody trains a bit less! ;)

With forms, I always try to do any given form at least twice - once going through it with them to show the proper way and again watching them, to better spot any errors. And then more repeats as time allows, sometimes joining them, sometimes throwing the opposition techniques at them during the form to ensure that they are using intent and correct applications.

With sparring I always try to spar with them a bit, to feel their progress as well as see it, and to remind them how they have to go.

On top of that, I do my own practice and fitness/conditioning training in my own time and I train with my teacher purely as a struggling student at least once a week.

[joedoe]

Well, I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. One instructor who trained with us all the time. He was a great inspiration, but didn't have the time to correct poor technique. Another instructor literally sat in a chair and counted out the repititions, and corrected us in between. Not very inspiring, but ensured that we had good technique.

When I started teaching, I tried both approaches and found that something in between was the best way to go. I tended to lean towards participation in the class because it inspired students to train harder, however I was also concious of the fact that mistakkes had to be corrected.

As I said before, it is a fine line.

[IronFist]

I think an instructor who never trains with the students has something to hide. Usually the instructors that want everyone to believe they're "too deadly" are the ones who never spar or train, but the real reason is because they suck and are afraid of getting beat by a student and losing their "mystical master" appeal.

If anyone ever tapped out my instructor or something he'd be like "whoa, nice submission," although if that happened it was probably because my instructor allowed himself to be tapped out, but still. He would take that as an opportunity to learn the same as a student would.

But you know what I mean about those shady "super deadly ninja" instructors that spend the whole class barking "1, 2, 3, 4" as the class throws punches in a row and never spars.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by IronFist
I think an instructor who never trains with the students has something to hide. Usually the instructors that want everyone to believe they're "too deadly" are the ones who never spar or train, but the real reason is because they suck and are afraid of getting beat by a student and losing their "mystical master" appeal.

If anyone ever tapped out my instructor or something he'd be like "whoa, nice submission," although if that happened it was probably because my instructor allowed himself to be tapped out, but still. He would take that as an opportunity to learn the same as a student would.

But you know what I mean about those shady "super deadly ninja" instructors that spend the whole class barking "1, 2, 3, 4" as the class throws punches in a row and never spars.

To be fair to the instructor I had who sat down and called out the reps, he was a very skilled martial artist. If he did decide to hop in and do something there was no doubt about his ability. He just believed that the instructor should sit and instruct rather than getting involved and maybe missing a mistake a student makes.

[PangQuan]

Generally our sifu will sit, walk and watch and provide instruction where needed. This of course depends on what we are doing that given day. It only takes one chipped bone to know he can hit, and all you have to do is watch how he demonstrates a technique or form sequence to know where he stands with that. Each teacher will have different methods. Our teacher is constantly taking written notes on each student, for each type of training we do. This is much harder to do when you are training. He does that in the morning for a bout 4-6 hours a day. then he teaches.

[wdl]

Originally posted by IronFist

If anyone ever tapped out my instructor or something he'd be like "whoa, nice submission," although if that happened it was probably because my instructor allowed himself to be tapped out, but still. He would take that as an opportunity to learn the same as a student would.


^ Same here. My instructor is usually proud when his students are able to accomplish things like this.

My instructor does alot of the class with us. I think it's a mark of a good instructor. Not only does he do forms, but also the BWE exercises, etc.

-Will

[Becca]

My main instructor's idea of a BWE is to step on stomachs whilst we do crunches or sit on backs whilst we to push-ups.:D That being said, he doesn't train with us, he teaches. About the only thing he does with us is running. Same with our senior instructor. But we all pretty much dread the runs our senior leads, cause he's something of a marathon runner. The show us what to do, and sometimes demo something on us, but they don't actually train with us. Judging by the bruising I've seen, they pretty much just train with each other.

[BM2]

I have always wondered how Bella Krarolla (spelling?), the womens Olympic gymnastic coach, teaches. Somehow I don't see him doing a triple sow cow with a half twist during the dismount.
However since coming to the U.S.A. he has raised the bar for the women's team ( ohh..I know it was a bad pun but I haven't gotten any sleep the last two nights and I just got up :mad: ).

[Judge Pen]

My instructor does most everything with us. He spars with his students too. Sometimes he will call out excercises, but that's when he wants to watch all of his students more carefully than he can while participating. He usually watches the forms part of class.

[PangQuan]

Originally posted by BM2
I have always wondered how Bella Krarolla (spelling?), the womens Olympic gymnastic coach, teaches. Somehow I don't see him doing a triple sow cow with a half twist during the dismount.
However since coming to the U.S.A. he has raised the bar for the women's team ( ohh..I know it was a bad pun but I haven't gotten any sleep the last two nights and I just got up :mad: ).

Some peoples ability lies in teaching not performing. You can have a mental understanding of they physical mechanics needed to execute specific routines, yet not be able to physically do them. Old injury, or such. That does not take away from your teaching ability.

[Fu-Pow]

This thread made me think a lot about the way I lead classes.

I noticed on Monday night that I made a mistake in helping the more senior students to the exclusion of one of the newer students.

The newer students need more help and one on one attention. You have to be more of an instructor and less of a participant.

The senior students have things they can work on, on their own. They can help each other out. You can run through forms and drills with them and get a pretty good work out yourself.

But the newbs you need to give the most attention. They often lack the discipline to do things in sufficient repetition. They often don't see "why" they are doing certain things.

So the conclusion I came to is that it's better to be an "instructor" with newer students and more of a participant with the more senior students.

Unfortunately, when you instruct you sacrifice your own workout and often have to find ways to make up the training that you missed (or risk falling out of shape.)

In addition, its hard when you have both in the same class. Often my teacher will delegate out teaching responsibilities. He'll have the most senior student lead the senior students. Then he goes one on one with the brand new students. Sometimes he does it the opposite way.

I'm not sure which way is best. I definitely don't like having people sitting around and watching other people work.

How do you do it at your school?

[Starchaser107]

I suppose it depends on what, is being taught. sometimes it might be better to immerse oneself and participate, at other times it might be best to verbally instruct and correct. the key to good instruction probably lies in knowing when to do what.

[PangQuan]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
This thread made me think a lot about the way I lead classes.

I noticed on Monday night that I made a mistake in helping the more senior students to the exclusion of one of the newer students.

The newer students need more help and one on one attention. You have to be more of an instructor and less of a participant.

The senior students have things they can work on, on their own. They can help each other out. You can run through forms and drills with them and get a pretty good work out yourself.

But the newbs you need to give the most attention. They often lack the discipline to do things in sufficient repetition. They often don't see "why" they are doing certain things.

So the conclusion I came to is that it's better to be an "instructor" with newer students and more of a participant with the more senior students.

Unfortunately, when you instruct you sacrifice your own workout and often have to find ways to make up the training that you missed (or risk falling out of shape.)

In addition, its hard when you have both in the same class. Often my teacher will delegate out teaching responsibilities. He'll have the most senior student lead the senior students. Then he goes one on one with the brand new students. Sometimes he does it the opposite way.

I'm not sure which way is best. I definitely don't like having people sitting around and watching other people work.

How do you do it at your school?

Our sifu splits the class into beginners (kids), intermediate (about 13+) and advanced (actually people advanced in the style, no age restrictions) With this, it is easier for him to interact with the groups more accordingly to the skill level that is present in the students. These splits are held at different times, ie; each level trains with its level, except there are advanced students in the intermediat to help with the instruction, providing more hands on one on one help.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by BM2
I have always wondered how Bella Krarolla (spelling?), the womens Olympic gymnastic coach, teaches. Somehow I don't see him doing a triple sow cow with a half twist during the dismount.
However since coming to the U.S.A. he has raised the bar for the women's team ( ohh..I know it was a bad pun but I haven't gotten any sleep the last two nights and I just got up :mad: ).

Experience. I'd be willing to bet that he was a high level competitor in his day. Now he's applying that knowledge to coaching the US team. No different from how a boxing coach applies his knowledge to coach a fighter.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
Unfortunately, when you instruct you sacrifice your own workout and often have to find ways to make up the training that you missed (or risk falling out of shape.)

that is why I asked the question that I asked on a previous page. What we do is get together and train on non class days, that way we don't get behind in our training. Also, we participate in as much of the class as possible - we spar, do the calesthenics, etc. we rotate in on pad drills too, but some of that time is sacrficed to correct others.

In addition, its hard when you have both in the same class. Often my teacher will delegate out teaching responsibilities. He'll have the most senior student lead the senior students. Then he goes one on one with the brand new students. Sometimes he does it the opposite way.

we do the same.

[Water Dragon]

My coach generally trains the class, and then spars everyone. So in Muay Thai, he'll call out the drills and make sure that everyone is doing everything correctly, and then he spars everyon who wants to stay and fight.

In BJJ, he generally shows the techniques (we all get different stuff depending on where we are, I'm gettin combination attacks right now) and then he spars everyone.

We usually spar each other too, but since he's training for a fight, we all line up and go one after the other with him. He get his training outside of class. One of his good friends is his Boxing coach, and he gets he's been going over to Carlson's school in the Chi for BJJ lately. So even though he's our coach, he still considers himself a student.