Cross Training in Jiu Jitsu =)

[Sim Koning]

Hey guys, I made a couple friends who train in jiu jitsu and they have been kind enough to train me in what they know. My first impressions about the art, its great! I'm having so much fun learning the ground game.

For those of you who don't know, I train in Jow gar and Hung gar as well as san da. I've learned plenty about stand up fighting, but I've never been comfortable with the fact that I didn't know the ground game. I realized that wrestlers are by far the most common type of fighter in the west and I knew that if anyone of these guys took me to the ground it would be over. After seeing Royce choke a 240 pound wrestler I knew that is the art I should learn if I wanted to survive a street fight with a grappler.

I must say, I am surprised at the similarities between the stances and the blocks of kung fu and jiu jitsu. What they call your base is very similar if not identical to the "horse stance" and the block jiu jitsu uses to trap a hook punch is the same as the block we use for the same purpose in Jow ga. My point being here is I found that jiu jitsu blends very well in theory and techniques with shaolin kung fu. Jiu jitsu is almost like kung fu's ground fighting cousin.

My advice for my CMA brothers out there is not to be close minded and learn about every aspect of fighting. It gives you a real boost in confidence when you become well rounded and know that you can defend yourself in almost any situation. NEVER stick to one style in blind faith that it will work for any situation. Biting and eye gouging will not save you when you are taking to a place you don't understand.

if you are a striker learning the ground game does not mean you have to become a pure grappler, it will give you the know how to surive on the ground and get back up on your feet so you can put him back in your world.

Well, those are my feelings on the subject, I guess I just felt like sharing...

[Becca]

Biting and eye gouging will not save you when you are taking to a place you don't understand.
Bet me. Bite his/her hand real **** hard... They'll let go.;) I have noticed that deliberatly lickiing someone will get them to either pull away or pause long enough to try some good anti-grappling move, as well.:p Eye gouging work just fine, too, but never forget the tried and true fish-hook. Ain't nobody like that one...:eek: :p


As far as the rest of that, we know jujitsu is complimentary to most stand-up arts. That's why so many MMA'res choose it to cross train in. But some of us [gasp!] just aren't interested in cross training. Maybe we feel our style adiquaitly adresses ground work. Maybe we are not interested in going the MMA route. Many reasons, none of which nessisarily imply close-mindedness.


Not trying to attack you. That was a nice, well thought out post. Just sayin'....:)

[BM2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Becca
I have noticed that deliberatly lickiing someone will get them to either pull away or pause long enough to try some good anti-grappling move

Ok, I have to agree with Becca. If a girl I was grappling with started licking me...well...I...yeah I would pause long enough :D

[Becca]

:D

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Becca
I have noticed that deliberatly lickiing someone will get them to either pull away or pause long enough to try some good anti-grappling move, as well.:p

hmmmm, wanna grapple? :D

[Ford Prefect]

lol! Maybe in training. Try biting or licking from an inferior position during an all out fight, and you will get beat down hard.

[Becca]

The idea is to shock them by doing something very strange, get loose, then run like hell. But, to be honest, I haven't tried these tactics since high school.

[Ford Prefect]

Can't say I've gotten into an actual all-out street fight since I started training combat sports when I was 19, but before that I was in and I saw my fair share of scraps. I saw a few instances of biting or gouging to try to escape an inferior position, and every time the biter/gouger got mercilessly beat down for their effort. These were completely untrained folks too, so it's not like the dominant guy even knew how to maintain position. This was also on the ground because in my experience, most of the fights ended up on the ground. At least juvenile slug fests did.

I did see it work once in a bar fight where a guy bit his way out of a standing headlock. That's 1 for 4 or 5 though. That's not something I'd want to bet my life on if I was in that position. IMO, grappling should be key to all serious MA's training to at least train how to stay on your feet and escape from the ground.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Becca
Bet me. Bite his/her hand real **** hard... They'll let go.;)

Yeah, good luck with that.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Brazilian jiu-jitsu or Japanese jujutsu?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Becca
but never forget the tried and true fish-hook. Ain't nobody like that one...:eek: : Fish hook = fingers bitten off.

[Water Dragon]

We did the dim mak in BJJ last night, lol. My coach was going for an armbar from mount, and I was defending hard. He makes a Phoenix eye fist, and digs into the side of my neck at the same time he pulled for the armbar. Needless to say, I tapped.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
We did the dim mak in BJJ last night, lol. My coach was going for an armbar from mount, and I was defending hard. He makes a Phoenix eye fist, and digs into the side of my neck at the same time he pulled for the armbar. Needless to say, I tapped.

um, ouch.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
um, ouch.

You ain't a woofing. Then, we did a little takedown work and I showed him Neck Surround. The next thing I know he figures out a Neck Surround to standing Omaplata to Rolling Kneebar combo. I swear the guy's some kind of mutant.

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
You ain't a woofing. Then, we did a little takedown work and I showed him Neck Surround. The next thing I know he figures out a Neck Surround to standing Omaplata to Rolling Kneebar combo. I swear the guy's some kind of mutant.

um, double and triple ouch.

[PangQuan]

I think it is a good idea to learn how to groundfight. Lots of fights do end up on the ground, that is if the person wanting to go to the ground is capable of taking the other individual to the ground. Thats where all the stance work, weight distribution, and momentum training come in. But you must alwasy be prepared to fight that guy who CAN take you to the ground, and if you do, trust me you will wish you had done a little ground study. In some cases this does not mean you have to cross train from your current style, depending on your style, ask your teacher if your style will eventually cover groundwork in your training. You will be surprised when you find out that your styles previous lineage holders have indeed thought about this. Oh and if you do go to the ground and you suck at ground fighting, you dont have to bite or eyegouge, although you can, you still have several options available. Groin, throat, elbows, knees, head, remember ground fighting does not always mean grappling. Tiger jaw to throat is pretty effective. I mean who can really breath with a crushed esophagus? Anyhow thats what I think about that.

[Water Dragon]

It's funny that when everyone talks about groundfighting, no one ever seems to think it's possible that THEY might be the one sitting on their ass and the other guy could still be standing trying to kick the $hit out of them. BJJ addresses that pretty well too.

[PangQuan]

I kinda noticed that too WD, I dont think anyone wants to think about that. Because i mean really, how could anyone HERE be in that position...LOL.

[WinterPalm]

I think the idea of crosstraining is kind of silly unless you are very well versed in one art. Or that art is very, very basic and not very diverse. Otherwise, you may end up with a mix of stuff that may not come natural. I would say someone should train in an art for a real long time until it is second nature. For some this may take their whole life but how many of us want to dedicate more than an hour or two every day to training? I understand some people are professional fighters and they need to train eight hours a day, but the rest of us are just regular people taking part in an old tradition.

[Merryprankster]

Then, we did a little takedown work and I showed him Neck Surround. The next thing I know he figures out a Neck Surround to standing Omaplata to Rolling Kneebar combo.

Yeah. That makes sense.

BTW, Phoenix eye fist is a pretty common way to try and open somebody up in a turtle... :D

[Water Dragon]

I think it's an omoplata anyway. It's the same lock as getting a kimura from Scarf by trapping their leg with your knee and lifting the hips.

[Nick Forrer]

How do you get a kimura from scarf without giving up your back? Or does that not matter a la sakuraba

[Sim Koning]

Brazilian jiu-jitsu or Japanese jujutsu?

Brazilian


I think the idea of crosstraining is kind of silly unless you are very well versed in one art

I've learned just about every stike a person can do and it is getting boring. Jiu Jitsu is like an all new set of toys for me =).

[BM2]

Does anyone else think it is strange how someone who never practices defense from a take down, states that he can not be taken down?
Hey, to each their own. I just like rolling too. Don't recommend it to anyone who isn't interested in it.
But I am willing to try to come up with a defense against someone licking on me ;) How effective that setup up is depends entirely on how cute she is :p

[Becca]

Down boy!:p

Anywhoo, I did say that was in high school. fishhooking worked well in the kind of cat fights I got into, 'cause all you had to do was mess up the other chick's make-up and she would start worrying about whether she still looked good, and it bacame easy to win or get away at that point. Touch the hair and they'd beat you donw, though.:rolleyes:

[Sim Koning]

My primary reason for training in jiu jitsu is to deal with wrestlers. Many TMAs out there forget that good wrestlers far outnumber good MAs. The simple fact is that a good wrestler is very good at taking someone down and many of them are very strong. If you don't know how to stop a takedown and if you don't know what to do if you do get taken down, your chances of surviving the fight are dismal. BJJ is great for "antiwrestling"because it teaches you to fight on your back, which is where a wrestler wants to put you. It is also great for a one on one fight where you do not really want to hurt someone.

BJJ is not the only art I have picked up things from. I've learned things from wrestlers, tae kwon do fighters, muay thai etc... Kung Fu is my base, my center, and I am constantly finding ways to improve my chosen system.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer
How do you get a kimura from scarf without giving up your back? Or does that not matter a la sakuraba

Take the scarf position w/ your left leg based out. Pull up on his right shoulder and get your right thigh under his shoulder. Place his right hand in the crook of your right leg. Make sure you keep your head down and to his left side so he doesn't hook your head with his leg. This is also going to keep your weight on his chest. Just lift up with your hips for the kimura. You're not using your arm to get the sub at all, just trap his arm with your leg and lift your hips.

*edit- be real careful with this lock. It puts the pressure on very quickly. A lot of times, the other guy will tap before yoy even get his hand trapped under your leg. The trick is to get you leg under his shoulder from scarf.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Take the scarf position w/ your left leg based out. Pull up on his right shoulder and get your right thigh under his shoulder. Place his right hand in the crook of your right leg. Make sure you keep your head down and to his left side so he doesn't hook your head with his leg. This is also going to keep your weight on his chest. Just lift up with your hips for the kimura. You're not using your arm to get the sub at all, just trap his arm with your leg and lift your hips.

*edit- be real careful with this lock. It puts the pressure on very quickly. A lot of times, the other guy will tap before yoy even get his hand trapped under your leg. The trick is to get you leg under his shoulder from scarf.

That's a keylock/Americana, not a kimura.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by FatherDog
That's a keylock/Americana, not a kimura.

Ooops, lol