Tai Chi

[IronMonkey]

My coach was insisting that I take this since I cant take Kung fu no more (for now), cause of the knee injury I have. Im thinking of taking Tai Chi until my knee heals, then I'll go back to kung fu practice. This should be really beneficial, dont matter what age right, and I wont have to put much pressure on my knee either (jumping, running..). SO what you think?

[FooFighter]

Iron Monkey,

Listen to your coach. A time to practice and there is a time for recovery. I have learned the hard way. I would recommend that you seek a sport doctor and start from there instead of imposing another style to your injury. Heal quick then train.


Bao

[IronMonkey]

Useless telling me to go to doctor, will never do that again cause I know everything I need to. My knee is improving. I play basketball in school for almost an hour and no pain, and thats running and sometimes jumping. I dont think Tai Chi would cause harm, and whenever I'll feel pain, I'll simply take a small break and resume training.

[rubthebuddha]

you're 15, yet you know everything you need to know about knee structure, injuries, contraindication, recovery, etc.?

no, you don't know everything. not even doctors do, but they know many times more about such problems than you ever will. take bao's advice and go see a **** doctor.

[Fu-Pow]

Who said Taiji was easy on your knees?

Taiji is a style of kung fu. Its not any easier or harder than any other style.

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
you're 15, yet you know everything you need to know about knee structure, injuries, contraindication, recovery, etc.?

no, you don't know everything. not even doctors do, but they know many times more about such problems than you ever will. take bao's advice and go see a **** doctor.

Ok, let me make this clear, I have been to many ****in doctors. I get the same answer from each one. So going to another doctor would just be a waste of time.

And no, Tai Chi would be a little easier on my knee IMO. When I bend my knee alot and go at a fast pace, maybe doing forms lets say, is when I tend to feel some pain, not alot though. I think that in these 1 1/2 yrs that have gone by since I had my injury, it has improved, and I know it did, I see some results. And practicing Tai Chi from what I read last night, it helps strengthen your tendons ligaments and bones, correct? Im only attending class 2 times a week either way, and its only 1 hour session.

If during any time I'll feel pain, I'll just take a small break and resume training. More reasonable now?

[WinterPalm]

I thin tai chi is very different than other types of kung fu. That is why, for example, you won't see any seventy year old men doing wushu (Yes, Yes, I know that isn't a real form of kung fu but it fits for the argument!!), yet you'll see lots of elderly folks doing tai chi. I can say from having done tai chi for about a year and having done Black Tiger for over three years, that there is a very big difference in the physical structure not to mention everything else about it.
I would go see a doctor and take your Sifu's advice.

[bung bo]

Taiji=good for you. Be careful, you could re-injure your knee. Knee injuries are by far the biggest injury among taiji players. My first taiji teacher has had one for a while. Make sure your knee points in the same direction as the toe.

Knee-strenthening exercise---Do BW squats. As you lower down, come up on your toes. As you come back up, go flat on your feet.

Good luck.

[IronMonkey]

Thanks for the exercise bung bo.

[KungFuGuy!]

Tai Chi is beneficial, yes, but you must be careful, as with all physical activity. Personally, I have been injured and in pain for nearly a year and a half due to an injury agrivated while training in Tai Chi. I now have a neck injury that could be permanent.

[IronMonkey]

Sorry to hear that KungFuGuy. I will be most careful and train slow, I'll take all pre cautions cause my knee is the most thing I care about.

[count]

Originally posted by WinterPalm
I thin tai chi is very different than other types of kung fu. That is why, for example, you won't see any seventy year old men doing wushu (Yes, Yes, I know that isn't a real form of kung fu but it fits for the argument!!), yet you'll see lots of elderly folks doing tai chi. I can say from having done tai chi for about a year and having done Black Tiger for over three years, that there is a very big difference in the physical structure not to mention everything else about it.
I would go see a doctor and take your Sifu's advice.
After 30 years I can say that a year at anything doesn't qualify you to give any advice. Especially as wrong as this. Although it's already been said it bares repeating. Tai Chi is Kung Fu and there are few styles as demanding on the knees. With that I will leave you with one video clip of a bagua demo by 74 year old Sun Zhi Jun:

Quicktime Clip (http://www.blacktaoist.com/Master%20Sun%20Zi%20Jun.html)

[KungFuGuy!]

I bet that man is invincible.

[Becca]

Originally posted by IronMonkey
Ok, let me make this clear, I have been to many ****in doctors. I get the same answer from each one. So going to another doctor would just be a waste of time.

That could be a sign, you know. :rolleyes: Your body is still developing and will continue to untill your early twenties. Mess up something now and there will be no making it right again. Continue training untill it is 100% and you will mess it up for good. You may not realize it untill you are older, but it will happen.

Ask yourself this: "Is my training now more important than being able to train my whole life? Do I want to be able to walk when I'm 50?"

It sucks, I know, but training on an injury at your age is bad news. And highschool coaches are notorious for pushing budding athletes untill they are really and truely broken. :(

[Merryprankster]

IronMonkey,

Go see an orthopaedist and a physical therapist. These guys can find ways to correct stuff. Please don't do this to yourself.

I have two bad shoulders, one surgically repaired. I have knees that aren't the best, and an old back injury I never let heal that now gives me problems - from when I was 14.

While I can still do everything I want to do in life, I have to be more careful than I did when I was younger. I have to do yoga. I have been to a chiropractor, etc. I have to stay away from several of my favorite - and best - weightlifting exercises. These are not "they make my life better," things, these are "If I ignore these things, I am laid up for 4 or 5 days" type stuff.

You're young, you'll heal - and a **** sight faster than me. But even young bodies can't handle repetitive stress. When I wrestled, I never used knee pads until I was about 16. One day, my knees just started hurting. I wore pads until the pain went away, then stopped wearing pads again. Then I found out the next practice, that knee pads for the rest of my life would be a good idea :).

My point is, take care of yourself, and don't think you know better. Insist on a doctor who listens and answers your questions, but don't try to handle this on your own.

Good luck!

[serene_dragon]

Tai Chi is done so many different ways with so many different ideas on how to do it.

Very hard to give you advice on if you should do the particular style that you are taking without actually seeing or even knowing what the instructor is having you do.

Just in my opinion 80% (if not more) of the people teaching Tai Chi do not even know what they are doing. Im not saying what they are doing doesnt have its benefits but there is so much more to it.

The advice given to you about Tai Chi + your knee injury = BAD
These are the ones who know what I am talking about.

If what you are taking, the concepts are: real relaxed, slow, light on your feet, easy stances, no worries/stress, etc. then you may be alright. (still some risks) but you can do that just doing everyday movements, walking around the house etc. and get close to the same results.

As far as doctors you have to tell them what is going on and what your plans are for the future, that you are going to stay very active, do very intense training and if they dont tell you what you need to hear.
FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR
Good doc's are out there, you just have to find them, Just like instructors. You have to look around

[IronMonkey]

Ok look, I'm not even gonna be putting a lot of pressure on my knee. If this is the case your all talking about, then I'll just reduce training to 1 hr per week. I can run all I want, no knee pain. It has gotten alot better though not fully healed. What actually hurts me the most is jumping. Oh and I'll see how the first few wks go, I should be starting this Thursday, and if I do feel uncomfortable, then I'll do something.

[scholar]

Originally posted by serene_dragon
Tai Chi is done so many different ways with so many different ideas on how to do it.

Very hard to give you advice on if you should do the particular style that you are taking without actually seeing or even knowing what the instructor is having you do.

Just in my opinion 80% (if not more) of the people teaching Tai Chi do not even know what they are doing. Im not saying what they are doing doesnt have its benefits but there is so much more to it.
...


This is absolutely correct. The single most popular style of T'ai Chi in the West is known by the 5 families as "Hurting Knee Style" because the guy that formulated it didn't know enough to keep his knees in proper alignment. So, unless you are 100% sure that your T'ai Chi instructor is classically accurate, you are MUCH better off with a competent orthopaedist, especially one who specializes in knees.

And good T'ai Chi Ch'uan is just as much kung fu as any other style.

[Royal Dragon]

These are not "they make my life better," things, these are "If I ignore these things, I am laid up for 4 or 5 days" type stuff.

Reply]
I'm the same way. Not that I can't do things and all, but I have to be mindfull that I get certian training in regularly, or I'm out of the game.

[Royal Dragon]

The single most popular style of T'ai Chi in the West is known by the 5 families as "Hurting Knee Style" because the guy that formulated it didn't know enough to keep his knees in proper alignment.

Reply]
Which style are you talking about?

I know my Chao style Taiji was like that to a certian extent. I was corrected by a Water boxing exponent though, so in my case I'm ok.

[GeneChing]

A Harvard doctor says these are the best exercises for your body (http://www.businessinsider.com/best-workouts-types-exercise-2017-10)
Erin Brodwin
Mar. 8, 2018, 9:06 AM 599,728

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/59d6410ec68d7b701c8b79c2-960-720.jpg
Shutterstock

Running isn't the only way to work out.

Harvard Medical School professor of medicine I-Min Lee says five other types of exercise are also hugely beneficial for your brain and body.

The exercises include strength training and walking.

If you think running a marathon is the quickest way to a rock-hard body, I-Min Lee, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, has news for you: That classic feat isn't as good for your body as it seems.

Instead of long-distance running, which can be hard on your joints and digestive system, Lee recommends five other types of workouts. They generate benefits that range from weight loss and muscle building to protecting your heart and brain and strengthening your bones.

The findings are detailed in a Harvard Medical School health report called "Starting to Exercise" which recommends some of the best exercises for your body.

Here they are.

1. Swimming

"You might call swimming the perfect workout," write the authors of the Harvard Healthbeat newsletter, which summarizes the report's key takeaways and gives insight from Lee.

In addition to working nearly every muscle in your body, swimming can raise your heart rate to improve heart health and protect the brain from age-related decline. Plus, being afloat makes this type of exercise nearly strain-free. "Swimming is good for individuals with arthritis because it's less weight-bearing," Lee said in the newsletter.

When you swim regularly for at least 30 to 45 minutes at a time, you're doing aerobic exercise — a type of workout that a spate of recent research suggests could help battle depression, lift your mood, and reduce stress, among other benefits.

2. Tai chi

Tai chi — also called tai chi chuan — is a Chinese martial art that combines a series of graceful, flowing movements to create a sort of moving meditation. The exercise is performed slowly and gently with a high degree of focus and a special attention paid to breathing deeply. Since practitioners go at their own pace, tai chi is accessible for a wide variety of people — regardless of age or fitness level.

Tai chi "is particularly good for older people because balance is an important component of fitness, and balance is something we lose as we get older," Lee said.

3. Strength training

At its most basic, strength training involves using weight to create resistance against the pull of gravity. That weight can be your own body, free weights like barbells or dumbbells, elastic bands, or weighted ankle cuffs.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/58ef71498af578541f8b553d-960-720.jpg
You don't need equipment to do strength training. Shutterstock

Research suggests you can use either heavy weights and a small number of reps or lighter weights and more reps to build stronger, more sturdy muscles.

Chris Jordan, the exercise physiologist who came up with the viral 7-minute workout (officially called the "Johnson & Johnson Official 7 Minute Workout"), told Business Insider that healthy adults should incorporate resistance training on two to three of the four to five days per week that they work out.

You can also use high-intensity interval training (HIIT), which combines the cardiovascular benefits of cycling or running with resistance training, to achieve the same or similar results. If you like HIIT, the 7-minute workout is a great place to start.

Whichever workout you try, the most important thing is to keep doing it.

"To achieve results, consistency is key," Jordan said.

4. Walking

It might sound insignificant, but walking can be powerful medicine.

Several studies suggest that walking for at least 30 minutes — even at a moderate or leisurely pace — can have benefits for the brain and body. One recent study found that in adults ages 60 to 88, walking for 30 minutes four days a week for 12 weeks appeared to strengthen connectivity in a region of the brain where weakened connections have been linked with memory loss. And a pilot study in people with severe depression found that just 30 minutes of treadmill walking for 10 consecutive days was "sufficient to produce a clinically relevant and statistically significant reduction in depression."

If you don't currently exercise regularly, the folks at Harvard recommend starting your walking routine with 10-15 minute treks and building up to 30 or 60-minute hikes.

5. Kegel exercises
Kegel exercises are important for both men and women because they help to strengthen a group of muscles commonly referred to as the "pelvic floor." As we age, these muscles — which include the uterus, bladder, small intestine, and rectum — can start to weaken. But keeping them resilient can have important benefits, ranging from preventing embarrassing accidents like bladder leakage to the accidental passing of gas.

The right way to do kegels involves squeezes the muscles you'd use to hold in urine or gas, according to the folks at Harvard. They recommend holding the contraction for two to three seconds, releasing, and repeating 10 times. For the best results, do them four to five times a day.

Thread: Harvard Tai Chi (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70697-Harvard-Tai-Chi)
Thread: Tai Chi (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?35439-Tai-Chi)

[Neeros]

There was some old discussion of knee health in relation to Tai Chi and other forms of Kungfu. Moving in stances can help rehab the knee if done properly and harm it if done improperly, I've experienced both. I see so many Tai Chi for health and balance people doing their stances and footwork incorrectly. I have corrected a few people I know and they were amazed how much better it felt.

Points to avoid and to consider:

Letting ones knee extend past the ankle or worse past the toes.

Stepping forward into a bow arrow stance with ones full weight. Instead try keeping the weight on the back leg, stepping the front foot forward, and then rotating the waist so the weight distribution is 50-50 to differentiate Yin and Yang in the stance.

Having the front toes facing directly forward and the back foot facing out to the side. Stepping and waist rotation feels so much better when the front is hooked in 45 degrees and the back foot is hooked in around 60 degrees.