How do you study Toulu?

[SPJ]

Tou means sets of moves.

Lu means a path or a road.

While you may practice single moves, sets of moves or a Tou Lu, anyway you want;

1. In order to fight, one has to come up with sets of "strategy" of your own to deal with the right, left, high, low, mid etc guarding your doors and counterattack. Covering your bases.

Moves and countermoves and counter countermoves etc.

If the opponent comes this way, what may I do?

What are the countermoves or solutions from my school of training?

2. The other way around; So we have this move or sets of moves, what are they for? What problems may they solve? What are the advantages? What are the disadvantages? How many ways we may use the move? How the move may change into another move?---

Take notes and analyze. More notes and more analysis.

"Spar" or try out with partners. What works and what does not and why? how to improve?

Soon heck, soon enough. There are reasons for the moves or sets of moves, the way they are that you may uncover.

How do you "study" or analyze your techniques or moves?

We all know we have to drill.

We all know we have to spar.

Do we have to study, too?

What is your basis of analysis, what is your theory? What are your principles? What is your strategy to guard, advance, retreat, counterattack etc?

Will it work that if you have a perfect skill on moves and yet you do not have tactics or strategy?

Do you have tactics or strategy for every move you "master"?

How about sets of moves?

What is a Tou? What is a Lu?

:D

[SPJ]

When I studied Tong Bei Quan;

There are 5 basic palms. They are interchangeable. One may become the other 4 and vice versa.

I was taught to think 1-2-3.

The opponent's move is 1. My neutralization is 2 and my counterattack is 3.

If the opponent is doing a right punch mid or RPM (1), my left hand Luo (2) and my right hand throw palm (Shuai Zhang) or use the back of the hand to hit his nose. I lean my body back a bit then forward, or move back front foot a bit than forward. I shrink my chest and abdomen at first called Shuo Shen. Then I expand the chest and extend the arm and shoulder to strike with the back of the hand.

My feet started the Jin by moving heels up and then down. Or Deng and Ta.

Just to jump start the thread.

:D

[count]

OK,
Every one teaches a specific lesson or energy. I try and understand the lesson. Break it down and identify it's basic principle. Drill each again and again. First stationary, than with steps, than with a partner and than free form in sparring. Once I understand the basic principle of the move or series of moves, than I try and learn a form or put it together as a Ta Lu. But I hadn't gotten around to the point in the other thread yet.;)

[SPJ]

OOPs;

Jump ahead of the thread.

Execellent posts. Bro'.

:D

[SPJ]

Not to sound cliche.

I combined the 5 body methods and Yi Qi Li or Jin. I called them 8 requirements or 8 methods of analysis or study of a move.

1. Shou (hand)

2. Yen (eye)

3. Shen (body structure)

4. Fa (over all method)

5. Bu (steps or footwork, stance, movements)

6. Yi (intent, tactics and strategy)

7. Qi (breathing, Qi focus and flow)

8. Li or Jin (how to contact, stick, follow, neutralize and release of your own Jin, Fa Jin)

The 8 requirements or Ba Yao.

Or the 8 ways to study or analyze a move.

[Becca]

If the opponent is doing a right punch mid or RPM (1), my left hand Luo (2) and my right hand throw palm (Shuai Zhang) or use the back of the hand to hit his nose. I lean my body back a bit then forward, or move back front foot a bit than forward. I shrink my chest and abdomen at first called Shuo Shen. Then I expand the chest and extend the arm and shoulder to strike with the back of the hand.
I know several self-defences, or mini forms based on this type of priciple. I would not say I have "mastered" any of them, or even the consept behind them, but I do work them daily in an attempt to.

I have found that they are best practiced while a bit tired, as I am less likely to tense up, and one needs to be very loose. I have not yet gotten to the point I can be loose, fast, and powerful all at the same time, but, as I said, I'm still working on it.

The loose aspect is needed to keep ballence and be flowing, or smooth. You may need to lean back quite a bit, and the leening is done not only at the waist, but also using the knees and hips. Tai Chi exersizes help train this type of ballence and flow.

Quick is because most important in using this type of technique is getting a good whip motion, this distracts the eye of the opponant, and helps to keep the attack from being intercepted. One would go from rear leaning stance to front bow very sudenly so that your arm swings like a whip. When you practice this the first few times, your fingers will go numb and tinglly.

Power is needed for the strick to be more than a "little bit of a sting", so to speack. If you fling your fand at a wall, you hurt your hand. If you whip it at the wall, you tighten up just the hand muscles durring the split second your hand makes contact. But to add power you need to be able to switch from the enertia-generated power of the whip to striking power in an instant.

I am working on how to be loose enough to keep good flow and ballence, quick enough to get that lovely whipping action in my arm anf hand, but still be able to switch to striking power when I have made good contact.

I have noticed that part of the problem is that you don't want to use striking power in this type of technique if your aim was off and you only cliped your target. If you do, you tend to over-commit. You need to be able to tell in a split second if you have made good contact with the target. But you need to make sure that you don't tighten, or brace, and muscle that is not needed to add that striking power, or you loose the looseness needed to execute the rest of the technique. This, of me any way, is very chalenging.

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by SPJ
How do you "study" or analyze your techniques or moves?

We all know we have to drill.

We all know we have to spar.

Do we have to study, too?


:D

The root of the word "student" is "to study".

[SPJ]

In Tong Bei Quan, there are 24 hand sets or short forms.

Each hand set has 6 to 8 moves.

There are 3 levels: the beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels.

Each level has 8 hand sets. So 3x8=24.

They are all consisted of the 5 hand palms.

However, the moves are repeated as left, right, left or right, left, right etc. Or high mid high, mid high mid, high mid low, etc

Or sometimes the same move is repeated 3 times in a row and then is changed.

There are old Chinese poems detailing the moves. There are also poems for apps, tactics and strategy of the moves.

Some time the apps, tactics and strategy for a single move or sets of moves may be in pages, chapters and even a whole book. A whole book about apps, tactics and strategy for a single move. Men, am I humbled! However, they are from numerous boxers at different time periods. They are compiled over 2000 years.

The 24 hand sets or Shou Quan, have to be drilled over and over. They form the backbone or foundation of Tong Bei Quan.

And they are only the representative variations from 5 basic palm methods.

From 24 hand sets, one may derive more and more.

[SPJ]

My point is that moves in a set, short form or long form.

They are actually building blocks for many other things.

Understanding of the principles and theory of the moves will help you derive more moves, sets or forms.

The moves in the form are like alpha beta of your school of Wushu.

They are representative moves to build on.

Drilling them over and over is only building a base or root for everything else.

Peace.

:D

[count]

Originally posted by SPJ

The moves in the form are like alpha beta of your school of Wushu.

They are representative moves to build on.



I don't know SPJ, I think the postures in a form are like punctuation, it's the movement in between that is the language or words. Just something to think about. :cool:

[SPJ]

Correct.

How to change from one move into the other is also a level of study.

[SPJ]

I think the postures in a form are like punctuation, it's the movement in between that is the language or words. Just something to think about.

This is an excellent point.

1. In Chen Tai Ji Lao Jia Yi Lu, it is to practice long Jin or continuing Jin of Peng, Lu, Ji and An.

The whole form is a continuous movement. With some apparent stops initially, the rest just continues like that a river flows.

The stops, such as single whip, lazily tying coat etc are called Ding Shi.

The main lessons are in the movement in between Ding Shi or stops. There are neutralizations, Peng, Lu, Ji, An etc.

2. Transition: how to be able to transition flexibly into different stops is very important in fightings.

3. Ability to change or flexibility. This is another factor to be able to continue and win fights in the end.

On and on.

[count]

I'm working on some ideas on 64 palms for this thread of yours. Give me a day or so.

Why don't you join us in the morning? We can play a bit of Chen. We have been working on Cha Chuan. If you really want to discover where the Chen comes from, study Cha Chuan. You can check out our Baji guys. Maybe check out our Bagua. You know where we are, right?

Don't be such a stranger.:)

[SPJ]

I am tied up between running an animal hospital and family matters.

My family and relatives are very private overall.

But I certainly will come to visit the school and you guys.

;)

[count]

Originally posted by SPJ
I am tied up between running an animal hospital and family matters.

My family and relatives are very private overall.

But I certainly will come to visit the school and you guys.

;)
That's cool,

BTW, we aren't in a school these days. Just out in the park. And you know how it's coming down this morning anyway. But I'll be out there sloshing around in the mud and puddles anyway.

Later,

[SPJ]

I think at this point some terminology required.

1. Shi (posture): move or moves in a sequence, usually named by the final, end or fixed move (Ding Shi).

2. Tang (trip): consisted of several Shi in a segment or short form.

3. Lu (road): consisted of several Tang or a long form.

4. Jia (frame): the main structure consisted of seveal Lu.

5. Quan (boxing methods): the overall boxing or fighting and weapon methods. So it includes everything.

6. Quan Pu (notes): drawing and descriptions of moves.

7. Quan Jing (bibles): theory, apps, tactics and strategy etc usually in poems. Or the westerner calls it classics.

:D