Teaching 7 Star Mantis Boxing

[FEELERSTRIKE]

What do people consider the necessary qualifications and experience required before being able to teach the 7 Star Mantis Style ?
How long should you spend with your shifu or Master ?
How many forms should you know ? and should you be able to fully breakdown each form ?
Are weapon forms important for new instructors for this style ?
It seems that Mantis Boxing is more popular than ever and I am interested to know what you guys consider when it comes to 7 Star Mantis Shifu ?

[sayloc]

I have asked this question before and no one give give a straight up answer.

I think the requirments vary from teacher to teacher.

There does not seem to be any consistancy between schools.

I would like to hear an answer if any one is willing to give thier requirments for thier particular school.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

You are quite right it does seem to be a subject that is avoided . I have heard many stories over the last few years of 12 month , 20 form instructor courses and even four year , six form to instructor gradings . If these are true it is really quite scary . I do know of one chap whose instructor level grading form was Chap Chui !
I am fully aware that depending on the student and how much time they dedicate to learning the style they can be at a suitable standard in a short time but it takes years to develope the style and fully gain the understanding of its concepts .
In our branch with regular training you can gain instructor status in approx 6 years but you will still have another couple of years of further training to gain the full sylubus .

[German Bai Lung]

In my school it is necessary that you get tested 6 times.
Each test is harder than before and you have to do all the forms of the former test again!

So for Sifu you must proved that you know 17 handforms, 10 Weaponforms and some partnerforms.
You have also be in good shape and know all the basics of the style (12 keywords, principles, names, linage etc).
You have to be at least 5 years at the school, but up to know noone was able to learn that much under 8 years. In fact just one student of mine get the Sifu testing and he was for nearly 10 years my student.

Also you have to get some experiences at tournaments. It´s a neccessarity! And of course you should know a lot of applications from the forms but not all ...

[Oso]

Feelerstrike: Good question but it's been asked before. My answer before was the same I'll give now:

10 years seems minimum to be a shifu in a system.
One should also have been assisting w/ teaching for at least 5 of that.

Number of forms would vary. You've asked about 7* specific so I can't answer that.

My own opinion is that 1 good sizable form a year is good. It should take at least a year to learn, understand and break down into application a form like Bung Bu.
So, 10 forms ??? IMHO, they should all be empty hand unless a weapon forms teaches principles specific to the style. Not sure that's the case w/ any mantis as most all the weapons were shaolin/northern to begin with.

[sayloc]

Thanks GBL!

How many partner forms do you require. Are they all ling sets or sets to be done only only as partner sets?

[German Bai Lung]

As Sifu Lee Kam Wing didn´t teach ling forms anymore we don´t train ling forms very often.
Most partner sets were partnerforms like:
Hand: Tou Fa San Doi Da, Dai Jaat Doi Da, Tao Jit Doi Da, Chyn Ji Doi Da
Hand/Weapon: Hong Sau Doi Cheung/Daan Do/Seung Bei Sau
Weapon/Weapon: Gwan Doi Gwan, Daan Do Doi Cheung, Seung Bei sau Doi Cheung, and a lot more ... ;)

[Paul T England]

IMHO you cannot set rigid timescales and numbers or forms etc. Each person like each teacher is different. Some people know only a few forms but know them as well as others who know more. One problem with kung fu people is that they look at numbers of forms, years training as a mark of ability.

How can you quantify something that takes a lifetime to learn. I have been teaching mantis for several years and I think I am a much better teacher and practitioner now than I was then, but I am 100% sure that many of you guys are better than me.

Also most styles/teachers are forgiving when expanding and or supporting new students, long distance students nomally need to teach so they can fund the travel and fees for learning. Also I think some of the best students are long distance students as they have to go away and think as well as sweat.

Paul

[FEELERSTRIKE]

I agree that alot does depend on the student and I have the greatest respect for the student who has to travel to learn from their shifu . Yes you do have to pay more attention to detail . Then again some of us are very lucky by having our shifu based where we live .
People do base experience on the number of forms you know . It is always a common mistake . The key is all about knowing the forms and what they represent . They are all there for a reason . Yes it is better to know 10 forms completely than to be able to perform 40 .It is a life long quest to be able to know all the forms fully and to develope them .
Most shifu have spent years training with their Master before being allowed to open their own schools showing that they have a full understanding of what the style is about and how to continue its growth . According to history even some of the best past Masters continued to visit their Masters to continue their training or understanding .
Back to my original question though should there be a certain standard to being an instructor of this style ? Should you have an understanding of all the major fist forms and principles behind them aswell as all the major weapon families ?

[sayloc]

GBL

Thanks for the info! Is there anyway I could get an english translation?:)
You could PM if you like.


Paul

I agree, you cant tell some one that they can be an instructor in a certain time frame. I require a minimum 8 years to be a full instuctor level.

As far as number of forms, I feeel that each form in any system (assuming that the system is set up well) has certain fundamental techniques as well as theory that the student learns while working this form. Each form bulilds upon the next as the student progresses through the levels. That is why I think there should be a certain order and method forms are tauaght up through the levels to full instructor level.

The same goes for wepons forms. Each weapon has its own flavor and techniques.

It does take a long time to gather and understand the information to become a full instructor level. This I why I have different types of instructor in my school.

[German Bai Lung]

Paul T England:

of course you have to have different qualities to become a teacher. Not only knowing an acount of forms. But the question was: in what frame one can gain the teacher level.

It is necessary to got clear and for all recogniceable parameters for achieving the teacher level. If you just make someone teacher because you like him and you believe he know enough to teach another one (with mor time and work and knowledge) from your school maybe is angry and will leave you for being unjust!
So a rigid frame got his pros and cons!

Sayloc: will send PM

[Paul T England]

I think 5 years training 3 times per week would be enough but someone who trains everyday could maybe get the stuff in about 3 years. In my school this would get them to black sash and if they had the right qualities then I would be happy for them to start teaching. I have teaching assistants, assistant instructors and instructor levels within my school.

You learn alot by teaching so if the student is keen I start them early helping out within class.

Its easy to set requirements but who do you get to judge them. I will get any black sash cadidates confirmed with my sifu and sigung after they have been through the material with me.

All good discusssion guys.

Paul

[German Bai Lung]

I think 5 years training 3 times per week would be enough but someone who trains everyday could maybe get the stuff in about 3 years. In my school this would get them to black sash and if they had the right qualities then I would be happy for them to start teaching. I have teaching assistants, assistant instructors and instructor levels within my school.

You learn alot by teaching so if the student is keen I start them early helping out within class.



The same here. Assistence in teaching is a very nice thing. As you said: you learn a lot when teaching! One must make his own thoughts ... thats a very good thing!

[FEELERSTRIKE]

Thanks for your imput everybody . It is good to know that there is a high standard of instructors out there who expect a high standard from their students before allowing them to teach . :)