NYC, legitimate schools?

[Humanchild]

I currently study at a school that has been tainted with certain controversies in the past. I have been training there for a year, and feel I have made great progress, but am leery based on some experiences and what have been posted here. I was wondering if there is anyone out there that used to train at my school, and knows what the real deal is. I am also interested in finding a different school, just to see what the difference is. This was my first experience with any martial arts and didn't really know what to expect.
my school (www.bolawkungfu.com)

[mickey]

Welcome to our Forum Humanchild,

Controversies aside, what is important are your goals. Though you have not stated any, are they being met? If they are not, shop around and do a real thorough job of doing that before joining another school. Similar to draw what you see, look before you leap. Please do look well. And no, I am not a former student of that school.

mickey

[Judge Pen]

I have some experience in training in a controversial style. :D I know nothing of your school other than what is on the website you posted. If this school is meeting your goals and expectations and not costing you more than you feel it is worth, then why change? If the controversey (politics, money, lineage, history, whatever it may be) is distracting you from your training, then go elsewhere. You are in an area full of great martial arts schools. Most important, do you feel like you can apply what you are taugth to defend yourself? (It might not be a goal, but it should be).

[Humanchild]

I did not want to rehash the controversies surrounding my school, which is why I did not give much information. I am really looking for someone who has been a student there and has moved on. In terms of my goals, I feel as I have gained a lot of strength, mental & psychical discipline. BUT, I feel a bit uncomfortable with some things. There is a "black belt program" which certain students get hand picked by the sifu to participate in. It is quite expensive and those involved aren't supposed to talk about it with other students. This seems a bit sinister to me, but have nothing to compare it to. Also, we were never told anything about the history of the school, the sifu, or the forms. From what I have read, a lot of "traditional" kung-fu training is steeped in it's history and is important in it's practice. I train 4 times a week at 3 hours at a time. 12 hours a week is a lot to devote to something I intellectually know very little about. Also, there is no sparring or practical application of our techniques. One more thing, we are inundated with tons of material, a lot of which seems too advanced for a majority of the students. They "invite" (meaning invite people to spend more money) people to take weapon classes when they have less than 3 months of training under their belt. I am kind of torn. On one hand, I am challenged by the training and feel like I have made some personal progress. On the other, I am frustrated by the secrecy, lack of information, and practical application.

[MasterKiller]

Yeah, Bo Law is certainly a controversial figure.

There are several people from NY here. Post an inquiry on the main board and you should get responses from lkfmdc, Ray Pina, etc...

[Judge Pen]

Well, if you want the history, application, and sparring then you should go somewhere else. You obviously train hard at what you do.

[brothernumber9]

From what I understand, what you are learning is modified (or not) Fu Jow Pai. Sifu Koh was either an instructor or similar under Either Sifu Wai Hong or Tak Wah Ng. The fact that you don't train any free sparring is striking since Fu Jow Pai hosted some of the earliest kung fu tournies on the eastern U.S. including free sparring and full contact.

[Brad]

A couple schools off the top of my head that might be worth checking out:

http://www.sandatrainingsystems.com/
http://sifuchenying.com/

[Shaolinlueb]

theres nothing wrong with controversial styles. im essentially learning bak shaolin eagle claw under master leung lee fu lineage. is it controversial? yes there has been a lot of controversy around it. am i happy with it? yes. it doesnt mean that your sifu isnt good. sigong fu is a warrior, and my sifu and sihings have used a lot of what they learn in the streets to protect themselves. so i know it works and im happy.

[Din Gao]

I (and Spite1) studied there. We left for the very same reasons you are struggling with. Talk to people that have been there and firsthand know what is going on. Don't feel bad, you are coming to a conclusion in a year when it took me two and a half years to get my head right. I was blinded by my inclusion in the "double secret probabtion, black belt, instructor-to-be program there". LOL Personally, I do not believe anything taught there is worth a dime and if you hope to gain fighting skills you are doing yourself a disservice. Don't get trapped in the mentality that things will get better because it won't.

Talk to spite1 about NYC schools, etc. We have seen them all in our search to find what was right for us. Figure out what you want in a school.

[GeneChing]

Every school has some moducum of controversy. Every one. Some more than others, of course, but there's controversy and politics wherever there's humans and power. Sometimes, you have to view the controversies as an extracuricular test of your warrior skills. Read Sun Tzu, the 36 strategies, Go rin no sho, etc. Sometimes you got to move on to somewhere else. Whatever you do, don't let controversy make you quit. Move on, move forward, but don't quit. You can only quit if you decide that the warrior path is not your path. If you quit because of controversy, you're not a warrior. If you're a warrior, you find the peace in conflict.

[Din Gao]

Gene, I would agree under normal circumstances but as I said it depends on what he wants.

If he wants to learn to fight (or even have any physical contact at speed), then leave. If he wants a school that doesn't change uniforms quarterly and make the students buy them over and over, then leave. If he doesn't want a school where you cannot ask questions of the sifu, then leave. If he wants a school that participates in tournaments, scratch that even look at other school demos or tournaments, then leave. If he wants a school where senior students stay, then leave. If you want a school that teaches the styles the sifu learned, then leave. (i.e. Lee Moy Shan = Wing Chun, Tony Lau = Hung Gar, Wai Hong & Tak Wah Eng = Fu Jow Pai, none of them are mantis, shaolin, etc. - knowing why he posted this on a Shaolin board)

I understand people want to believe & hope for the best but in this case I say rely on first hand experience. Trust me we have written a thesis on this place to purge the demons from our minds. We have talked to original students, etc. I do not want to go into it any further on a public board.

Sometimes a bad thing is a bad thing and not a necessary change of perspective.

[Humanchild]

Wow!! I can't believe the response I have received from this topic. I have been trying to figure out how to quietly leave the school,( I am a competent adult, with a good job, education, self-esteem, blah, blah, blah) but am intimidated to the point where I feel like I need to come up with a lie to get out of training there. (I know how stupid and ridiculous this sounds) Anyway, I really appreciate feedback and was wondering if you guys (Din Gao or spite1) had any suggestions for good schools?

BTW: I noticed in the responses that I was referred to as "he" , this is not the case. :)

[Judge Pen]

I would check out Sifu Ross' SanDa program if I lived in New York. I've always been curious to see his training.

[GeneChing]

You got us on that one, Humanchild. ;) Good for you.

Din Gao, I should clarify. When I said "don't let controversy make you quit." I meant "don't quit martial arts." That's why I said "Move on, move forward." I meant move on to another school.

Humanchild, if you're intimidated to leave, that's a really, really bad sign. All the more reason you should leave. Martial arts should never increase your sense of feeling intimidated. Quite the opposite, actually. I don't say that to pass judgment on that school - to be honest, I don't know the first thing about that school - it's more about your relationship with that school. Sometimes the student doesn't fit the school; sometimes the school doesn't fit the student. In either case, move on until you find a place that doesn't make you feel awkward about leaving. If a school has to intimidate a student to stay, that's just wrong.

But don't quit martial arts.

Sometimes it can take a lifetime to find a perfectly fitting school. Ultimately it's not about the school. It's about the quest.

[MasterKiller]

I would check out Sifu Ross' SanDa program if I lived in New York. I've always been curious to see his training.

Just order his DVD. It's pretty good.

[Din Gao]

Gene, I agree completely.

Humanchild, I realized my assumption after I submitted my reply. Sorry, my bad.

IMHO, If you want to stay in kung fu: Yip Wing Hong (Lung Ying), Su Yu Chang (Baji, Mantis, etc.), Bond Chan (Bagua/Hsing Yi), Kwong Man Fong (Pak Mei), Chan Kam Fai (Choy Lay Fai), and several others but I am drawing a blank right now.

If you want to look at other things; I could tell you of a few good Muay Thai, BJJ & MMA schools.

[Din Gao]

BTW, if it helps any I told him exactly why I was leaving and he completely ignored it.

Just go and don't look back.

[mickey]

Humanchild,

You do not need to offer an excuse to quietly leave. JUST DO IT!! Hanging on unnecessarily is an injustice to yourself. You have committed no wrong. You simply woke up after swallowing that Matrix pill of knowledge.

Get outta there Neo.

mickey

[Din Gao]

HAHAHA!!!! Mickey, that is the best analogy I have heard. Was it the blue or the red pill?

[mickey]

Hi Din Gao,

Humanchild swallowed the red pill and she got the truth, nothing more.

mickey

[Brad]

I agree about the just leave advice. When left a school similar to what's being described at Bow Law's school, I just stopped going. I ended up having a much easier time than people that tried to stick around and explain why they're leaving and all that. A sudden, clean, seperation is usually best, imo.

[jmd161]

Yeah - that feeling of always thinking you are doing something wrong and having to walk on eggshells.....it's not healthy.
But I won't go into another rant in this thread.

Here are some styles/sifu that come to mind in the NYC area that are worth checking out: no particular order
Pigua, Baji, etc... - Su Yu Chang
Lung Ying - Yip Wing Hong
Pak Mei - Kwong Man Fong
Hung Ga - Yee's Hung Ga
Ying Jow Pai - Leung Shum
BaGua, Hsing Yi, etc... - Bond Chan


AT LEAST check out these schools.
But like GChing said - it really is the journey that will answer all of your questions.
You should check out as many schools as you can. And don't ONLY look at Chinese martial arts.


You can check out those schools ,if you still don't see anything you like ,you're welcome to try the two styles i train in.

I train in Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn (Shaolin Black Tiger) and Sil Lum Hung Faat Pai (Buddha Palm). My Black Tiger sifu travels regulary to the NYC area and my Hung Fut teachers are here in NYC.

If interested pm me here ,i'm looking for someone serious to train with.


jeff:)

P.S. The Hak Fu Muhn i train in "IS NOT" Fu Jow Pai or the Black Tiger that Koh used to claim.

[shaolinboxer]

There are too many good martial artists in New York, and many of them have schools. It can take a long time to find a school to settle down in.

Find a place that appreciates you and gives you peace more than aggravation.

Trust yourself.

[Humanchild]

Thank you for all the good info. Wish me luck!

[mickey]

You don't need luck when you have wisdom. Give us an update when you can.

Take care, you will be alright.

mickey

[shaolinboxer]

You always need luck.