Would you have helped in this situation? (vid) [Archive]

Akhilleus

02-27-2005, 10:42 PM

Basically this clip makes me very angry...based on their actions, the attacker and his girlfriend do not appear to be human but some other form of animal...but the second clip shows the victim yell in the woman's face as well...I'm not sure what he said but he certainly did not deserve what he got...the guy who came out from behind the counter and then ran back behind it is, of course, a coward...there were enough men there to restrain the attacker until the police game...its not like one person would have to fight him, they could have all just tried to hold him down...the whole thing is very sad....what isn't sad, is that the attacker got 4 years...Ithe woman got six months but could go back for several more years...the victim has filed a $25,000 civil lawsuit...

the woman claimed the man insulted her with a racial slur, though witnesses did not confirm this...the attacker claimed he was afraid that the man would hit the woman...

Works Cited

1. yahoo! news

Shaolinlueb

02-27-2005, 10:45 PM

if i had a bat i would help. my moves arent that good to take out someone that big.

joedoe

02-27-2005, 10:48 PM

He was definitely a big man and that first hit was just devastating. I don't have audio so I couldn't hear any of it (if there was any audio) but it seemed kind of uncalled for. Surely some of those guys standing there watching it all could have tried to help.

Akhilleus

02-27-2005, 11:06 PM

What would I do? Well I would have been afraid...very afraid...but before push came to shove I believe I would have put my hands up in a non-threatening manner and tried to cool off the parties involved...maybe offered to pay for their pizza...once the crap hit the fan I would have jumped on the big dude's back and encouraged others to help me restrain him...I think the pain of getting my butt kicked severely would be a lot more bearable than knowing I didn't do anything...I think it's good to talk about what we would do in such situations so that if they arise we will be ready...and protecting others is a big part of most martial arts training...

dezhen2001

02-27-2005, 11:35 PM

That guy is too big for someone like me to take out - i wouldnt even talk myself up enough to pretend i would have done "anything". I have some first aid training though, so i could and would probably have done what i could afterwards until proper medical assistance arrived.

That kinda thing freaks me out - im amazed at how de-sensitized the other onlookers were to what was going on :eek:

We need someone like Sevenstar to be hanging out in the line for the pizza then maybe something could have happened :D

themeecer

02-27-2005, 11:55 PM

Alright .. that ticks me off. We live in such a selfish world. Sure that guy was big .. but he was slow. And even if he wasn't slow, with that many guys there they could have stopped him after the first hit. Then when the banshee he was with started getting all hissy they could have slapped her to the ground. She was the cause of it all. The cell phone guy ignored her far longer than I would have.

ricksitterly

02-28-2005, 12:00 AM

I'm surprised that no one stepped in. Stepping in doesn't always mean getting hit or fighting with the attacker.... it's just a matter of telling someone that "he's had enough". Especially with more than one person standing there, it would have been fairly easy to step in and say "Stop, I'm calling the cops"

In NY, I saw a very similar situation, in a pizza place (ironically), with someone about the same size against someone even smaller. The owner of the pizza place called the cops immidiately and people eating there stepped in to pull the man getting beaten away... probably because the attacker looked to big and threatening to restrain. And this was over someone grabbing the wrong slice of pizza off the counter. Luckily no one was injured.

YuanZhideDiZhen

02-28-2005, 01:15 AM

i'd've done nothing to interfere.

it wasn't my business.

if i got involved even to restrain the attacker i could've been charged with assault by the cops for involving myself in someone else's disute. so if you're going to allow yourself to get charged for attacking someone not only are you stuping to the attacker's level but you'll go to jail too. so if you get involved like a vigilante do it all the way: knock some fat around the man's belt, make his kidneys bleed, split his sternum and keep him from reproducing!

your rights to self defense do not include the defense of others. the cops get ****ed if *you* do *thier* job.

themeecer

02-28-2005, 01:21 AM

if i got involved even to restrain the attacker i could've been charged with assault by the cops for involving myself in someone else's disute.

Actually if you had laid your hands on the attacker that would have been battery, (the act of unconsented touching) had he seen you making this move towards him it would have also been assault(the fear of unconsented touching). The defense to either of these is defense of self or others, which is using force sufficient to repeal, including deadly force.

i'd've done nothing to interfere.

it wasn't my business.
And yes it is your business if you claim to be a martial artist. Why do you train? Just so you can practice web fu and train for the octagon? :D

so if you're going to allow yourself to get charged for attacking someone not only are you stuping to the attacker's level but you'll go to jail too. so if you get involved like a vigilante do it all the way: knock some fat around the man's belt, make his kidneys bleed, split his sternum and keep him from reproducing!

your rights to self defense do not include the defense of others. the cops get ****ed if *you* do *thier* job.

Stooping to their level? You are protecting someone from being hurt from an attacker. That is not stooping to their level. It isn't a vigilante act. A vigilante act would be hunting the guy down after the fact. In this case you would be protecting an innocent person from taking a beating.

And yes your 'right to self defense' does include others.

Edit: I just got a notice that you have posted to this as I am re-editing my post. Our postings may not match up now.

YuanZhideDiZhen

02-28-2005, 01:39 AM

in Ky that may be so, but, generally, laws change from state to state. in most new england states self defense is for *SELF* defense. in southern states where good samaritan laws exist it is as you say. but northern residents in southern states still have the right to have you prosecuted for violating thier rights to thier own protection. as soon as you involve yourself in someone else's defense you are liable to both parties for damages sustained regaurdless of the level of your battery.

i once observed an irs tax agent slug it out with an fbi candidate. an unarmed security punk thrust his body between the two and got hit by both parties. when the cops showed they blamed the security guard for not letting them finish it. the kid had to assume responsibility for thier injuries as they claimed had he not gotten involved they would not have gotten injured. that occured in a good samaritan state.

themeecer

02-28-2005, 01:46 AM

Kristoffer

02-28-2005, 02:34 AM

he wasn't that big, just fat.

Unless the guy takin the hit was my friend I wouldn't go after fatso. I would probebly just try communicating with him, get him to calm down.

On the other hand I wouldn't mind takin that hit for $25,000 and knowing the idiot got 4 years.

ricksitterly

02-28-2005, 02:44 AM

in any physical confrontation i've had, i've never stuck around long enough to let the police (or lawyers) try to sort out who was at fault for what. and u know what, i've never heard of the police searching very hard for a man who allegedly "broke up" a fight.

however, if u were the guy who walked up to someone and just started swinging at them, they're probably going to track u down and arrest you if they can.

Originally Posted by YuanZhideDiZhen
"so if you're going to allow yourself to get charged for attacking someone not only are you stuping to the attacker's level but you'll go to jail too. so if you get involved like a vigilante do it all the way":

as for that comment, i would say that with an outlook like that, you will eventually end up in jail. Even in self defense, or the defense of others, the court does recognize the difference between doing what is necessary and going beyond what is necessary and causing unnecessary damage to anyone. When rich people with lawyers get involved, the legal system gets tricky.

I think it's pretty cowardly to sit back and say "it's not my business". So I suppose you're type of person who wouldn't have gotten involved if someone hijacked a plane you were on? Look where that got us.

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 05:19 AM

"so if you're going to allow yourself to get charged for attacking someone not only are you stuping to the attacker's level but you'll go to jail too. so if you get involved like a vigilante do it all the way"

I wonder if you'd still feel this way if that was you copping a beating while the rest of the shop stood by.

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 06:05 AM

I'm sorry...as unprofessional and heartless as this sounds.... If that big dude hit me, he would of been in for the shanking of a life time. I would of stabbed him so many times it would of made O.J. turn away in horror.

Size does matter, and sometimes when you have a gorrilla mofo like that reigning blows upon you'r head, it's necessary to use a weapon. Be it tazer, mace, small knife, whatever. I have a little carry blade I carry for when I'm walking home from downtown at night. It's not big enough to kill (when stabbing the body), but it is a deterrent so that I could make a getaway. It's about 2 1/2 inches of blade...

I would of stabbed through his foot while he was standing over me, then twisted and watch him writhe in agony. Then I would of got up and stabbed him once or twice more for good measure. Then I'd wipe the blood off on his shirt and book it.

a tid bit ghetto of me perhaps, but I guess I just carry myself differently...

dezhen2001

02-28-2005, 06:31 AM

are you sure that isnt "big enough to kill"?
Im a wuss, so no smack talk from me, i know i probably wouldnt do anything unless i had dutch courage or something -- and i aitn dutch! :)

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 06:48 AM

rogue

02-28-2005, 06:56 AM

i honestly don't know why any of us would even bother speculating about this.

simple truth of the matter is you have NO IDEA what you would do in a situation like that until it happens.

Another truth of the matter is that when that type of situation happens, the way those people reacted is how most people react.

To be a helpful person is to be the one in a million, not teh oether way around.
That one in a million wasn't tehre that day and don't be dreaming that you are him. You don't know until it happens.
KL does seem to be almost right on this. But... if one person did get involved then there is a very good chance the others will have followed. I think the number of helpful people are better than one in a million but that may be my convservative rosey point of view.

One problem that does come up is if you take the big man down will the law see you as a hero or another ******* in the fight.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 07:09 AM

william

02-28-2005, 07:55 AM

The sad thing is, it's in our nature not to do anything, (If they are not related to you)

I am not an expert of this, as I study different modules (finishing a psychology degree) but in situations like this the more people there are around the less likely the guy is to get help. Its diffusion of responsibility, he is more likely to have been helped if there were just one or two guys in the shop.

When sh*t like this happens you run a mental cost reward analysis instantly.

Rewards = helping out fellow human, mild press recognition etc

Costs = Injury, or Death.

It doesn't weigh up. As you survival instinct is greater than you 'helping out' instinct (Altruism). Your strongest reaction will be to do nothing.

You could override this, but it is difficult, your are going against human nature.

Not saying we shouldn't try and go against it, just something to think about, before people make claims.

W.

rogue

02-28-2005, 08:50 AM

you're speculating rogue.

I think we've seen this before in vids and some of us for real.

Your average schmo will just stand there and watch and let it happen. He might help afterwards when there is no longer teh possibility of danger to himself.

The one in a million in my opinion might be a little high.
For the most part, people don't care about other people in even the most small ways.
What a sad sorry world you live in. People risk life and limb everyday to save people, you just don't see them unless it's something spectacular. I may have just been raised differently than you.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourselves why is there homelessness in the richest countries in the world? Why is pornography and prostitution one of the largest industries in our North America. The why's are endless, the amount of people trying to make a dent in these problems is very very small compared to the whole of the population. For porn and prostitution I'd say it's supply and demand, and people who are willing to take advantage of those who are in a position and willing to be taken adavantage of. Homelessness has always been around but was called other things. But you do what you can.

Truth is, most of us like to think we are good people, but when it gets right down to it, most of us do not take action. You could say "speak for yourself" and I could say those are empty words. Trouble is, I would probably be the one who is right despite all your best intentions and what you think you might do.
So who is specualting now? I'd say I wouldn't go against the big guy physically as that would be an empty sacrifice, so in this case I might try to get his attention on getting out. But I am a person who does tend to get involved, in this case it would be administering first aid and getting the first responders in.

red5angel

02-28-2005, 09:55 AM

If I had my phone I would have caled the cops first then I would have stepped in. nothing infuriates me more then to see this sort of apathy, all of these guys sitting around doing absolutely nothing. that's the difference between the wolf and the sheep.

Starchaser107

02-28-2005, 10:19 AM

it just doesn't seem right to me, people should have intervened. nobody even tried to talk to anyone and calm the aggressors down, nobody tried to pull him off.
and what's worse, nobody assisted the injured man...
that's cold.
that's really heartless.

maybe that was what 9/11 was like in the sky.

this mentality needs to change.

Starchaser107

02-28-2005, 10:22 AM

and another thing.
no one knew for certain that the big black gorilla would not flip out and attack anyone else.

so ok no one intervenes, what if he hits someone else. what if it's you or your friend?

how many people does he need to attack before someone decides to do something about it.

what if it's too late by then?

rogue

02-28-2005, 10:29 AM

Until someone does something.

themeecer

02-28-2005, 10:58 AM

I'm sorry...as unprofessional and heartless as this sounds.... If that big dude hit me, he would of been in for the shanking of a life time. I would of stabbed him so many times it would of made O.J. turn away in horror.

Not unprofessional at all. There are two types of fights, ones you fight dirty in and ones you lose. Nothing manly about letting someone beat on you when you have a weapon to stop him.

Size does matter, Sounds like a personal preference CPA. :)

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 10:59 AM

As mentioned a couple of times above, first you, if possible, call the police. Then you intervene with words, such as "hes had enough, calm down pal" and then if he turns at you and says "you want some" you stare back, the second he moves towards you in a threatening manner, buckle his over packed kneecaps, and punch him in the throat. But above all else, dont just stand there like a puke ass chump. If your just going to stand and watch something like that, you should quit your training today. Or train more so you wont be so afraid. Size does matter yes, He his hard but slow, I hit hard but fast. I will use my smaller size to my advantage, as can all of us small dudes. Dont fear the reaper.

ewallace

02-28-2005, 10:59 AM

I am definitely not one in a million. But I do know that I would have gotten involved. I had a situation at a bar a few years ago. I was sitting right outside the front door on a "piknic table", along with 20 other people or so. All of a sudden two people come crashing thru the door, one head first. One of the guys was a bouncer that I knew pretty well, and the other guy was pretty large (definitely not as large as the guy in the video). No one did anything, and most of the people out there (on about 5 tables) knew the bouncer who was a cool guy.

Anyways, the bouncer was having some trouble with this guy, who was obviously intoxicated and probably coked out, because the bouncer wasn't exactly too small himself. The struggled to the ground and the guy ended up on his stomach. I immediately jumped on the guys back/shoulders, and the bouncer sat on his butt holding his legs. We held him like that until the cops showed up. It was like riding a freakin bull. He cooled down a little when talking to the cop. The cop then took the handcuffs off of him, and he started running his mouth at the cop. Dude ended up getting arrested when he was about to be let go.

Moral of the story is there was no thought before I jumped on the guy. I was no hero, I didn't use any force as far as striking. But had things kept going, the bouncer guy could have ended up like the guy on the video.

ewallace

02-28-2005, 11:08 AM

By the way, I'm with CPA on his comment. I carry a kershaw ken onion leek, which is an "assisted opening" knife. It only takes one hand to open, and is perfectly legal, in most states I belive. It's much different from a switchblade or stiletto. But with someone like that knocking the crap out of me, I hope I would remember that I had it.

themeecer

02-28-2005, 11:11 AM

Dang guys .. you all are too nice. I wouldn't have tried talking to him. Does he or his woman seem the type to be rationally spoke with? I agree with CPA ... if I had something I would have grabbed it immediatly and waded in. And if not I would waded in from his blind side. Don't give the guy a chance to beat on you. Hit him as hard as you can when he is not looking, and then keep on hitting. Maybe I was in too many fights of mismatched size, growing up to calmly wait for the big guy to have a chance to hit me.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 11:44 AM

Its not about being nice, its about being smart. If you intrude with kind words then when the bull rears its horns you have every right (legally) to defend yourself and stick in the sword so to speak. Its about being on top and staying out of jail. I will bet you anything that nearly everyone on this forum can throw a low kick fast enough and hard enough to that dudes knees to drop him in an instant. Plus you will notice the glass cup on the counter, grab that and break it on his head. Then you have a handy sharp piece of glass. Its all about finding as many weapons in your area at all times. Cause I bet even though he is slow, He will cream you before you can get you hand in and out of your pocket. Act fast, and think faster.

Akhilleus

02-28-2005, 12:37 PM

I have faith in people...I believe that there are those who would help, and they are more common than you think...consider police officers...they have already decided that they would help in such a situation when they put on their uniforms...and speculating can be good...we may be in that situation one day and who knows...I already have been in such a situation...there was no one that big but many more of them...I'm not talking about heroically dropping someone with an axe kick and then riding off into the sunset with the guys gf...I'm talking about recognizing the situation before it arises, then trying to calm the people down...like I said, I would have offered to pay for their pizza...

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 03:05 PM

As mentioned a couple of times above, first you, if possible, call the police. Then you intervene with words, such as "hes had enough, calm down pal" Bull. In the time it takes you to call the police that guy could die. You start with the words, get the big fool's attention and try to get him to calm down. If nothing gives in a second or two, then you wade in. And don't think that you can plan to take out his knee and then hit him in the throat, or anything like that. If you have any kind of plan, you'll lose. Fighting is chaos. You step in and do what needs to be done, using whatever opportunity opens up.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 03:17 PM

You guys can speculate all you want, but again, the fact of the matter is you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO UNTIL IT HAPPENS. period.

so pose all you want and be as gallant as you want in your fantasy worlds, but what you saw in that video is how it goes down all the time.

Rogue- yeah people risk life and limb everyday for a paycheque and yes there are good people out there who would step in. Did you see any in that crowd? Do you see any in any crowd where there are people in this situation getting video taped stepping in?

Besides drunken frat boys videos of sloppy fights, where do people really intervene? And what makes you think your so fuking special and such a fuking hero you would do anything about it?

Your words are empty and your sentiments are bull sh it bud, sorry but snap out of it.' Facts is facts and sorry if you're confused by em, but the fact is that not many if any would step in when stuff like this goes down and as much as you think about what you might do, I reiterate, YOU DON"T KNOW TIL IT HAPPENS.

Watch the video again to SEE what people ACTUALLY DO when confronted with this kind of event. Then try to think realistically about what is going on and try not to see yourself as Mel gibson in braveheart. So many of you guys would likely do the same thing, but who knows, you simply don't know til it happens.

joedoe

02-28-2005, 03:20 PM

I gotta say, if you were the one being beaten on then I don't think you would have been in any state to pull a knife. The guy was out of it after the first hit.

A 2.5 inch blade is plenty to kill someone. There was a case here where a battered wife stabbed her husband with a small fruit knife. It just happened to go between two ribs close to the heart, and he was dead before he hit the ground.

red5angel

02-28-2005, 03:27 PM

"If you have any kind of plan, you'll lose"

you're apparently on the wrong website then. As a matter of fact you've completely nullfied any reason to ever train in the martial arts except for health.

"You guys can speculate all you want, but again, the fact of the matter is you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO UNTIL IT HAPPENS. period."

this is complete bull. Most people know exactly how they would react. In this case a lot of people have got the chance to try atleast once in their lives. you're so full of **** kung lek it amazes me. You're constantly trying to put people down and trying to lift your own self up. On top of that your opinion is based on so many assumptions.

Let's see a show of ayes for those who have been in atleast one situation like this and done something active about it - Count me as the first Aye.

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 03:29 PM

You guys can speculate all you want, but again, the fact of the matter is you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO UNTIL IT HAPPENS. period.
Why don't you stop tarring everyone with your own brush? You wouldn't intervene, that's fine. Don't talk for everyone else.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 03:29 PM

Most people know exactly how they would react

what you know and what you actually do are two different things.

Red, if you ever have any experience with a confrontation, let us know how it goes.Until then keep on dancing ya midget. :rolleyes:

red5angel

02-28-2005, 03:32 PM

no, KL, like the rest of your fukking hypothesis, it's dead wrong. while some people may not react the same way they think then will when the **** goes down, I've found most people react pretty closely to the way they believe they do. Just because you dropped a load at your first encounter on the mean streets of Canadia, doesn't mean the rest of us have to tough guy. You're so full of posturing bull****.

Akhilleus

02-28-2005, 03:37 PM

Let's see a show of ayes for those who have been in atleast one situation like this and done something active about it - Count me as the first Aye.

Aye.

red5angel

02-28-2005, 03:45 PM

Oh, if you're an Aye, why don't you mention whether you responded in pretty much the way you felt you would? I have in a all but one instance and I can't tell you why the one instance was different from any other.

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 03:48 PM

Meecer sounds like he's iching for a shanking... :p

I forgot where I learned it, but 3 inches is big enough to kill when stabbing the torso. Of corse if I stabbed the vital areas he would die, as major arteries are just below the skin (ex. Juggular).

I gave it some thought, and I'm not sure if I would pull my knife. I would be so hopped up on adrinaline, who knows where I would stab. As KL said, I can only speculate and knowing myself, I wouldn't trust myself enough. Besides, it's a chance for me to take a beating on camera, play the part of the victim, and rake in cash hand over fist.

Money sounds better then sharing a cell with the mongrol in prison.

Meat Shake

02-28-2005, 03:54 PM

Past being a martial artist.... Its your responsible as a decent human being to help.
There are only two kinds of people in the world - Decent human beings, and indecent human beings.
Some decent human beings are cowards, which may have been the case here, but in any sense, its your job to help. There is a law advocating that you must help people in texas called the good sumaritan law. Pretty widely applicable although Im not sure of the concrete definition. Im pretty sure that everyone in the pizza parlor could have been liable for being the chicken **** *******s that they were.
I cant believe no one even bothered turning around to look after the ape left. They just stood there numbly looking ahead. Absolutely pathetic.

Meat Shake

02-28-2005, 03:56 PM

6'4" 295.... thats one big sack of ****.
Hopefully Id be behind him and regardless of what the law thought Id probably drop an elbow into his ear or temple at full tilt.

ewallace

02-28-2005, 04:05 PM

Well KL, I got involved many times in junior high school, high school, and as a young adult, so I'm pretty sure how I would react. And I am just going off of past experience, not speculation.

MS should know the bar too. Coco Beach on Nakoma near West Ave. :)

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:06 PM

red, I know and you know you're just some little suburban fruitcake squeezed into a cubicle who goes to his 60 buck a month gym to learn some brazilian dance moves. You probably haven't been in a fight in your life and the way you live says you probably never will be.

Don't try to tell us that people will do what they think they will do, no go back to stuffing your face with mcdonalds hamburgers and playing your stupid video games.

If you can show me more vids where people step in as opposed to just watch, I might listen to your constant snide little drivels that you seem to fill up these forums with as opposed to any useful information about anything (seeing as you don't have much real life experience and choose to bridle when someone calls you on your nonsense as I am all to willing to do.)

fuking nancy boys like you are all talk. You haven't got a clue, now go finish your excel sheet midget. Your boss wants it on his desk before you leave and you know who you serve with your little skeelz. :rolleyes:

ewallace

02-28-2005, 04:06 PM

In between the ribs is a good place too, although can be a difficult spot to hit. Right under the left armpit isn't a bad way to go either. Just take a stab at it and see how it works. :p

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:08 PM

junior high? bwahahahahahahahahaha, we're talking 350 maybe 400 lb angry fukin guy here dudes, not fuking junior high, jesus H christ, what is worng with you?

ewallace

02-28-2005, 04:12 PM

I'm talking 250-275 drunk and probably on coke. Had to be something else besides alcohol. And this was when I was 25. I've done it all my life, everytime without thinking. It was just a reaction...everytime.

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 04:20 PM

In between the ribs is a good place too, although can be a difficult spot to hit. Right under the left armpit isn't a bad way to go either. Just take a stab at it and see how it works. :p

Word, I'll go shanking tonight! I'm gonna find me the ugliest degenerate living in lower minneapolis and give him a sound knifing...

j/k :D

ewallace

02-28-2005, 04:22 PM

I think Red5 is in Minn.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:24 PM

well then ewallace, you are that .75 in a million vigilante guy then. good for you, maybe a career in policing is for you.

however, as posted earlier on, the psychology of the matter is completely and utterly different. If it ain't a threat to your relative, your loved one, or you, then teh likelyhood of 99% of the people ever getting involved in something like this is pretty much nill and guys would more than likely go home feeling all pent up about not doing anything as opposed to acting at the time when it is really needed.

THAT is true human nature. To deny it in the face of overwhelming facts is wholly ignorant as Red is showing us again and again. lol :rolleyes:

Even I don't know what I would do. Besides, what if the guy getting a beating does get saved and it turns out he's a rapist? Or later on in life he robs you or kills your mom? You see the dilemma? We DON"T know. plain and simple.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 04:24 PM

All you have to do is fight for your life one time and you will know how you will react in these kinds of situations. Some of us have and some of us havn't. Im not going to go into details about where I come from in life or the sh!t ive gotten myself into, but ill tell you all this right now. If your scared you wont do sh!t. If your not scared youll do everything that your capable of. Its all about the fear factor of death. Bottom line. In that particular situation I would have had time to formulate at least a 5 second gameplan, see, we are talking what we would do as bystanders. And my first reaction to a man of that girth is the knee, ive done it before, i know for a fact it works. As a victim, I would take the Fukin hits and do the same he did sue the hell outa the *******. I saw that beating as well as you did, aint no death blows there. hard hitter to a softy. thats all.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 04:26 PM

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:28 PM

pangquan-

even if you've been in a couple fo scenrios where you risked your life, every new one is different and you can't plan for it nor can you "plan" your way to a win. Life is not like that.

The decision to intervene is not a fight/flight response. That only applies if it is you directly in the fire not some stranger you don't know.

Think of it this way. Say you walk in halfway through that altercation? Do you jump in? Think about it now. And be honest with yourself in your thoughts. If you can't do that, then you will never be able to without a lot of work.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 04:28 PM

I can't view videos at work but if somebody was being attacked without just cause and I was a witness I would involve myself. The bigger they are the harder they fall.

red5angel

02-28-2005, 04:29 PM

bring it sissy boy, I'll whip you faster then I could whip Kung Lek with him having a good day!

"Even I don't know what I would do."

Oh come now Kug Lek, that doesn't jive with your tough neighborhood childhood, or was that some sort of intenrt tough guy lie? Probably. moron.

red5angel

02-28-2005, 04:30 PM

I can't view videos at work but if somebody was being attacked without just cause and I was a witness I would involve myself. The bigger they are the harder they fall.

I odn't think you get it Simon, according to Kung Lek, you can't, it's not in your nature. Only HE would be the one saving the weak and pitiful human beings around him....

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:32 PM

I'd like to help to, but again, I am not 100% certain I would.

In the past, there have been cases where I have helped out others, and in others, I just watched like all those other people did. It's different everytime.

simon, you're talking sh it and you know it. Harder they fall...hahahaha, what nonsense. I know that you're not that stupid to think that you could just walk up and stop that. More likely that the strong defeat the weak, the large defeat the small etc etc. To think otherwise is sheer fantasy. More facts support this than one or two examples of the reverse. And we all know that one or two examples are anomolies and likely shouldn't be taken as gospel in these matters.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 04:33 PM

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:35 PM

red, the more you write down here, the more I'm convinced that you are just some desk jockey nancy boy living in your weird little fantasy world. Whatever, I gave up on pretty much everything you have to say long ago due to your lack of anger management and short temper followed by bouts of incredibly stupid things said.

again, let us all know whenever you get into some actual confrontation that doesn't involve your bull sh it trekkie renfest nancy boy arguments. :rolleyes:

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:41 PM

walking in halfway through the situation is changing circumstances, it depends on what they are fighting for. If i was there from the begining and the guy getting beatin is being treated injustly, yes, i would. coming in in the middle, no i would not. For I would not know the situation.

pangquan-

You DON"T know the situation with that vid now! You can't here the argument with the woman and the guy, you see the guy ready to go off on a woman (regardless of her size)

Have you just invalidated your argument here? Seriously guys, this is all just speculation. Like I said 20 posts ago. Don't get angry, I'm not saying you're wimps (except for red who is a pansy and a weenie combined :D ) I'm saying you don't know the situation and it is not a person who is directly related to you or that you have any emotional connection to. don't feed yourself lies even in your mind, if you do, you might walk into a stray bullet one day and all your best intentions will wash down the gutter with your blood as your life drains from you. It is really worth considering and not worth getting all worked up about.

besides, humans are really resilient. THe guy got punched out, but he'll probably be back up and at em in a couple of days with a few bruises and he'll know better than to go off on a woman he's pizzed off for whatever reason.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 04:47 PM

I was under the idea this was situation was based on the theory that the guy was getting beaten wrongly. Since we are not there to see it, a theoretical spectuation was necessary, otherwise this entire thread is a waste of time. All of my posts are based upon this theory, now that you see the point i speak from, go re-read my posts. and then reply.

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 04:49 PM

I don't see any intent from the guy on the phone to hit the woman. He was talking and she started pushing his head, and talking shiit, then she slapped him. That's where I would of drawn the line too.

I would never hit a lady, but you got me twisted to think I'm gonna sit there and take verbal/physical abuse from some bytch who can't wait five minutes for a pizza. I truly don't understand what you're seeing differently from me in that vid, KL. He seemed like he was ready to have a verbal dispute with her...never once did I see the malicious intent towards that lady.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 04:51 PM

simon, you're talking sh it and you know it. Harder they fall...hahahaha, what nonsense. I know that you're not that stupid to think that you could just walk up and stop that. More likely that the strong defeat the weak, the large defeat the small etc etc.

KL one thing which you may not be aware is that I am a big guy myself I don't get scared by size either because I am faster than anyone ever expects of me as well as being quite strong. ;) I don't like it when strong people pick on weak people it irks me significantly.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:56 PM

cpa-

intent is everything.

the dude first of all was clearly ignoring what the woman was saying. He continued to talk on his cell phone and ignored her protestations. So, he could have avoided her enragement if he had taking the time to STFU, get off the phone and maybe listen to her for one second to see what was up her butt like a burr.

I'm guessing the whole scenario would not have escalated had he been a decent enough person to do that simple little act. In short, when I watch it, although she reacts poorly, he is being a wad towards her before she flicks him.

Pang quan - I have been saying this thread was a waste of time from the start, feel free to read my first post lol. But hey, I'm here to play. So what the fug eh? :p

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 04:58 PM

simon- careful now, it is not wise to 'think' you are faster or stronger than others, and besides, who says the guy in the video was not of the same mind as you? hmmmn?

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 05:07 PM

A wad?!? What kind of ass-backwards canadian logic is that?!

He was talking on his phone with his fiance when Sims (the female) skips line. He states that she can't skip line. She goes off the deep end. Starts verbally berrating him, flicking him. If anything his patience to not push that bytch away is noteworthy.
Please give me a time specific point where Joe Scarpino acts like a jerk to her AFTER she crossed the line? He didn't, KL, and you're defending a point in vein.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/10947882.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp&1c

She even told Jones, "Get this white motherfukka." Yeah...I'm sure he deserved that too, huh? :rolleyes: Cause everyone getting a pizza at 2:30 in the morning must be a sinner through and through.

Bah...

CaptinPickAxe

02-28-2005, 05:08 PM

Do some research before bumping your gums on some holier than thou B.S.

Fu-Pow

02-28-2005, 05:10 PM

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 05:12 PM

Uh Oh, hes bustin out the facts. Personally I would have flashed kicked his ass and while he was still in the air (from my superior leg strength) I would have caught him in mid fall and done the ol' german suplex on his ass. After that I would have wrapped my cape around myself and flown away. Hows that for realistic??? :D

mickey

02-28-2005, 05:16 PM

Greetings,

It is strange that no one is blaming the manager. He did practically nothing when the girl was arguing with the other customer. If he had asked her to be quiet or leave or even had threatened to call the police at that point, the situation may not have gotten as bad as it did. His inability to bring order to an unstable situation contributed to the beat down that customer received.

I really feel sorry for that guy. He should sue the company and the people who chose to do nothing for some bucks.

mickey

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 05:18 PM

Jeez, kung lek, you really think you're the spokesman for everybody else?

For the person that asked for those of us that have been in situations like this, I can say aye too. A few times in my life things have happened.

The best example, vaguely similar to this vid, is this one. In the city one night, walking down the main street, these three punks run up behind another dude (who appears to be on his own) and shove him and start beating on him for no apparent reason.

Whatever the situation before it, three on one is out of order. The fight spilled out into the road and there must have been a hundred people all standing around watching this poor sap get slammed. I waded out into the middle of it and pushed the main "beater" back and yelled at them to lay off. So two of the three turn on me, one heads off out of my sight. I tell the guy that was getting beaten to run away and he did.

When I square up the two that are about to start throwing punches at me, they start telling me that I'm going to get mine now and do I want some of this, etc. Usual posturing bullsh!t. The fact that I stood up to them took the fight out of them.

Then the one that had moved out of sight suddenly came back into view - I should have watched him more closely - dragging one of those frames that hold up the yellow and black warning barriers behind him. There was a marked off work site on the pavement. He tries to swing it at me and it's easy enough to side step. While he's still being moved by the momentum of it, I help him into the tarmac. I'm angry now and yelling stupid stuff like, "F***ing fight or run away, you punks!" and my adrenaline is up and I'm scared - Pang Quan, if you ever think you won't be scared when a fight is imminent, you're wrong. Not giving in to the fear, learning to control it and deal with it later is what's important.

Anyway, they backed down and wandered off talking about how they would smash me later ( :confused: ) and citing all the honking traffic (we were still in the middle of the road) as one reason for moving away.

I was ready to fight and would have, but needed nothing more than a couple of shoves and some confidence. All the other people still stood around watching, like idiots. Most people will, but not everyone. So Kung Lek, don't try to tell all of us what we would and wouldn't do.

In the pizza shop vid, it's quite likely that the big dude would start swinging on anyone that intervened, but so be it. If I'll step into a group of three people, I'll step up to one fat idiot. And so would a lot of others here, I'm sure.

The worst evil that good people can do, is nothing.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 05:32 PM

simon- careful now, it is not wise to 'think' you are faster or stronger than others, and besides, who says the guy in the video was not of the same mind as you? hmmmn?

I didn't say that I was faster than anyone I said I was faster than anyone expects the first time they see me, an important distinction.

Anyway KL it comes down to one thing. I'm not a coward and I have stepped up against "big" guys before.

Fu-Pow

02-28-2005, 05:37 PM

At the time it was happening how would you know that the guy who got beat down didn't deserve it?

In retrospect you can look back and say I would have done this or done that. But at the time you might not know if this was some kind of personal matter or what the f was going on.

Furthermore, its not wise to jump into the middle of a fight with strangers. You never know if they might have a gun or knife.

Bottom line is you gotta pick your battles. If you're street smart you know that there's a time to fight and a time to run away.

Fights break out in the blink of an eye an you have to make tough decisions on the fly based on your moment to moment instincts. And unfortunately, sometimes your instincts can fail you.

PangQuan

02-28-2005, 05:47 PM

rogue

02-28-2005, 05:56 PM

Rogue- yeah people risk life and limb everyday for a paycheque and yes there are good people out there who would step in. Did you see any in that crowd? Do you see any in any crowd where there are people in this situation getting video taped stepping in?

Besides drunken frat boys videos of sloppy fights, where do people really intervene? And what makes you think your so fuking special and such a fuking hero you would do anything about it?

Your words are empty and your sentiments are bull sh it bud, sorry but snap out of it.' Facts is facts and sorry if you're confused by em, but the fact is that not many if any would step in when stuff like this goes down and as much as you think about what you might do, I reiterate, YOU DON"T KNOW TIL IT HAPPENS.
KL, you know jack **** about me. I've never been a hero but I've done the right thing or attempted to do the right thing a few times. I credit my dad (who was one of those who risked life and limb everyday for a paycheque which is more than you would seem to do) for teaching me that. And I'll be honest being like my dad is the one thing about me that scares my wife. Two years ago I saw my old man save a kid from drowning, and he did that one for free. No big deal to him, but a big deal for me. You know what makes me special? Nothing, there are people all over who step up to the plate and do what's right everyday. I doubt you are one of them. And you are right, YOU DON"T KNOW TIL IT HAPPENS. But I've been surprised in a good way by people when that something does happen.

Akhilleus

02-28-2005, 06:01 PM

I think Kung Lek is right that it is very hard to say for sure what we would do in that situation, even if we have been in a situation before...sometimes it is easy to overestimate one's courage when speculating....however, sometimes we underestimate our own courage...if we believe that what we are doing is morally right, or our moral duty, that can be a great source of courage...

and yes, the manager does nothing, but wet his pants when the big dude comes in...I hope he has trouble sleeping...he deserves it...

SimonM

02-28-2005, 06:10 PM

sometimes it is easy to overestimate one's courage when speculating.......

I have a tendency to rush in without thinking of how big a guy is, how brave I am or any such stuff. Usually I don't even need to raise my fists. Sometimes I do. Only a fool never feels fear but I don't ever let fear rule me.

MonkeySlap Too

02-28-2005, 06:36 PM

Kung Lek is correct on a few points:

You don't know what you would do.

Because each situation is different.

But he is dead wrong on **** near everything else. It must be hard being the subject of a crown (serf) and arrogant socialist at the same time. But to each thier own. I'm just glad that I live in a country where you don't have to expect the government to do everything.

Oh, and aye.

Only those that have worked out with me would beleive my story, so I ain't telling it. But I did use the line "Come back here! I can fight all day. I can fight till the cows come home, then I'll fight the f@cking cows."

Ah, youth....

MonkeySlap Too

02-28-2005, 06:38 PM

My response to this situation would be to act as a cooler first. Violence is always the last resort. But he is big enough to be life threatening, so I doubt I'd hesitate if he turned on me. I learned that the hard way.

Oh, and if you know how, you can train yourself to maintain control and reason in these situations. You can make a concious choice.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 06:43 PM

Look I'm on your side, I think KL is being a twerp but he isn't the only Canadian on this page and I don't take too kindly to anyone suggesting that I tip my hat to that haggard old ***** in Buckingham palace. You will find few people as vehemently anti-monarchist as myself and your attempt at an insult on KL kinda washes over every other Canadian on the list. :eek:

Edit: Yer dead on about being able to train yourself to remain controlled during stress situations. It's one of the key martial benefits to meditation. :D

MonkeySlap Too

02-28-2005, 06:52 PM

Hey, sorry, I keep forgetting that MOST of the Canadians I've met are stand-up guys. Nice in the way Americans used to be when I was a kid.

But yer still the subject of the crown. WTF? Why put up with that feudal BS?

joedoe

02-28-2005, 06:54 PM

In reality the Crown does not play a huge role in the government of the Commonwealth nations. In a ceremonial sense it does, but in reality there is little if any interference from the Crown.

Just $0.02 from another subject of the British Crown :D

MonkeySlap Too

02-28-2005, 06:57 PM

So... you pay them to do nothing... which is worse?

I say throw the bums out on thier asses, and privatize the assets, using the proceeds to finance something worthwhile.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 07:00 PM

But yer still the subject of the crown. WTF? Why put up with that feudal BS?

Because the queen is so completely irrelevant to the average Canadian's life (since 1981 when we repatriated our constitution) that nobody cares. She's an ugly old woman whose face is on the back of all our coins. That's about it.

Edit: The official representative of the queen in Canada is called the Governor General. Technically they have to endorse every law parliament passes. In the 1930's a governor general vetoed a law passed by parliament. The uproar was so massive that he had to immediately resign. Since then we repatriated the constitution. The queen and her representative are figureheads only now.

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 08:00 PM

Mo Lung,

I understand your controlling fear angle. and it is correct. but as one who used to initiate the stupid fights, it is entirely possible to be unafraid during a physical confrontation. It is not unheard of. 3 people is different. I most definately would have to control my fear there. Ill be the first to give you props on your good deed. I have to catch up in life, Karma is a b!tch.Cool - good post.

As to FuPow's comments, sure, it's a judgement call every time. That kid may have just raped someone's little girl. Who knows for sure? But in any given situation you have to make a judgement call. I did then, I've done it other times and I'll probably do it again. I'd rather think in the future that I made a poor judgement call in a situation like that than that I stood by like a ***** and watched some poor innocent soul get mashed.

David Jamieson

02-28-2005, 08:48 PM

rogue-

don't be a hypocrit now saying stuff like "you don't know jack yada yada about me" and then go on to some supposition of what you think I am. That's just bass ackwards and makes ya look like an idiot. Which I know you're not, so nuff said.

MS2- you're just being an idiot too with your rant, and I know that you aren't that either. I don't know what your "youth" remark is about, but I am certainly not "youthful" anymore. hahaha, I wish!

All I need to be right about in context to this thread is what you have said I am right about. IE: None of you know what you will do until it happens.

The situation can be read any number of ways. Watch the vid, watch it again, then more carefully. What is really going on there? Are you only seeing the beating? Are you seeing the lead up? Do you watch the areas of the screen where there is no guy beating on another guy? Are you looking at the people as this thing goes down? What are they doing? What do they look like? What do you think their life experiences are that would make them any less of a human being than you for all your good intentions and jumping in and saying that you would help.

My point is and has always been, none of you know exactly how you would analyze what is going on if you were there, walked in halfway, came in at teh tail end etc etc. It is a moot point. I'm sorry if you can't see that. It is obvious to me.

Anyway, Maybe you are just taking offense at me being ascerbic about it because I think a few of you are simply being posers with all thet "I would step in and do A then B then C" Which I find to be presumptious and in light of the situation slightly fraudulent of intention. You have no idea if there is a firearm on any of these guys.

Yes, It could very well be that any one of 100 million scenarios could play out and we could emerge a hero, wouldn't we all just love to be a hero even if it were only for a fleeting moment. But the action of being a hero is almost never premeditated. It just happens. And you could still wind up dead.

Anyway, god save the queen and all that, and please don't be vigilantes, it is just wrong. Also, if anyone cares to look at the psychological analysis of that scenario or 1 of thousands just like it and see how the avergae human being reacts, Then you are wholly invited to do so. The internet is useful for other stuff besides bashing me because I am pointing out the emperor has no clothes...and you're the emperor for saying you would dive in and save the day.

And so, this is fireside dave signing off with a hearty helping of don't bite off more than you can chew, because you just might choke on it!

rogue

02-28-2005, 09:03 PM

don't be a hypocrit now saying stuff like "you don't know jack yada yada about me" and then go on to some supposition of what you think I am. That's just bass ackwards and makes ya look like an idiot. Which I know you're not, so nuff said.
KL calling someone a hypocritsky? Dude, your the one saying you know how people behave.

SimonM

02-28-2005, 09:08 PM

To be honest KL what we are finding iritating is that you are trying to tell us that we don't know how we would react. In some cases (certainly in mine) I have spent considerable time considering that very matter and know SPECIFICALLY under what conditions I would and would not involve myself in an altercation. I happen to be of the opinion that the big, strong and intelligent have a duty to protect the weak, stupid and easily lead. Kind of a meritocratic noblesse oblige. As a result I don't take too kindly to somebody saying that I wouldn't step up to a bully "because he is a really big bully".

On Saturday I was celebrating my birthday at my local watering hole. It's owned by my best friend. An ******* started some trouble and got turfed by the bouncer. The bouncer gave him the bums rush out the front door and he slipped and hit his head. The guy got back up and immediately threw a jab at the bouncer which connected with his nose. I saw this (I was sitting right across from the door) and decided to come to the bouncer's aid since he was now being attacked by a drunk. The jab was a boxer's jab, it had pretty much all the tells so I didn't know how well that guy would be fighting; he wasn't feeling any pain, that was for sure, seeing as he bounced right from slamming head first into pavement. I didn't stop to ask "is he better than me?", "is he too drunk to fight or just drunk enough to not care?" instead I just got out of my seat and went to help the bouncer. The second he saw the bouncer had backup he backed off, no more attempts to accost the bouncer. I didn't have to throw a single shot but because I stepped up I was able to defuse the situation. Later I learned that he was ejected for trying to storm into the girls bathroom to get a girl he had come drinking with because he had been cut off by the owner. The girl had been "hiding from him" in the girls washroom for some time before he barged in. In retrospect I acted correctly. It didn't come to blows but I still acted to deal with the situation and would have fought if that is what it would have taken.

Please don't tell me that I do not know myself. I am the one person I truly do know.

IronFist

02-28-2005, 09:40 PM

I don't know about you guys, but that first shot would have KTFO'ed me.

joedoe

02-28-2005, 09:43 PM

So... you pay them to do nothing... which is worse?

I say throw the bums out on thier asses, and privatize the assets, using the proceeds to finance something worthwhile.

As far as I know we don't pay anything to the Crown. We have to bear some costs if they come to visit, but then that is normal for any visiting dignitary.

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 09:57 PM

originally whined by Kung lek
My point is and has always been, none of you know exactly how you would analyze what is going on if you were there, walked in halfway, came in at teh tail end etc etc. It is a moot point. I'm sorry if you can't see that. It is obvious to me.It's obvious to you that you would react that way. If I saw it from the start or walked in halfway through, I would not stand by and watch someone get totally mashed. That guy was defenceless after the first shot. I would have stepped in. I've done it before and I would do it again. So has Simon and others here that have mentioned their similar experiences

IronFist

02-28-2005, 10:50 PM

Think you could have jumped on him from the back and rear naked choked him out? I'm serious.

dezhen2001

02-28-2005, 11:00 PM

I don't know about you guys, but that first shot would have KTFO'ed me.
..... same! :D

Mo Lung

02-28-2005, 11:10 PM

Think you could have jumped on him from the back and rear naked choked him out? I'm serious.That would require being able to find his neck. ;)

Xiao3 Meng4

03-01-2005, 02:24 AM

This is an interesting thread.

Watch the video thoroughly, and the following becomes evident:

The camera is initially focused on the man talking on the cell phone, not the woman.

The woman spits on the employee at the counter (possibly the manager at this point)

The brunette who enters the shot 23 seconds in eventually describes the apparent situation to someone off screen. You can see her gesture with her index finger to the parties involved. (speculation: she's telling another emplyee that the woman spit on the bearded employee.)

The Short-haired blond employee with the glasses who enters the shot at 28 seconds appears focused on leaving the area. (speculation: he's gone to get help, either in-house or 911)

The big dude in the white shirt standing by the door tries (mildy) to pacify the Assaliant 50 seconds in. He verbally adresses the assailaint briefly, but doesn't persist. (Speculation: the guy who's being wiped across the floor is KO)

At 1 minute 40, a girl and one of the patrons already in the store go to check on the victim.

At 1:52, the dark haired girl calls off camera for an ambulance.

So, first and foremost, people did do SOMETHING. Perhaps not Superman-like, but there was concern there.

This video made me muse about non-interference and the value of Iron-body. There is the idea that addressing the situation from the perspecitve of controlling the assailant's behaviour would involve imposing one's own will on the assailant.. an act similar to that of the assailant imposing his will on the victim.

To approach the situation from the perspective of helping the victim, regardless of his initial role, allows the assailant to continue his intended release of energy if he so chooses; the main concern is the safety of the victim, not the actions of the assailant. This is where Iron body and "Peng/Ward Off" would prove valuable.

Having these skills allows someone to cover the victim with their own body and absorb blows. With a quality of peng, the assailant could even be made to bounce off the helper's body. If the assailant decided to get technical and attack soft targets (ie truly try to hurt the helper), the use of progressive force to maintain health would become the helper's prime concern. Either the assailant gives up or gets hurt. Of course, without the peng and iron body, the potential for the helper to get hurt is there too.

(btw, you can really see the big guy wind up.. he may be big, but he shows no signs of training or excercising.)

XM

red5angel

03-01-2005, 09:21 AM

"I know that you're not that stupid to think that you could just walk up and stop that."

there's your stupidity showing itself again kung lek. no one ever siad they were guarenteed to stop it, they just said they would try.

See, while you're busy being a coward, that's right a coward, you even admit it in this thread by saying you have no idea what you'd do, some of us know ourselves well enough to know we'd step up. I've been tested enough to know I would beyond the shadow of a doubt.

I've also figured out that you and Fu Pow HAVE to be the same person, both you morons tend to ignore the facts of the situation. Before either of you get's to reply again, open the fukking link, WATCh the video and LISTEN to what the narrator has to say. I'll give youa quick rund down since it would take the two of you and a genius to figure out how that process works:

Guy is in the pizza place waiting for his order. Some chick bust in line in front of him, probably as he's in on the cell talking to his girlfreind. He makes a remark about it taking longer then he thought it would - a snide remark in reference to the fact this ***** has just cut in front of him in the line. Said ***** begins to harass him verbally and physically. The manager decides he wants her out, for some reason backs off and goes back behind the counter, The chick leaves, probably to give her boyfreind some bull**** story to convince him he needs to kick the crap out of someone, and said moron walks into the pizza place and begins to punch the guy while all the kung leks of the world stand around and watch, mouths agape in horror.

David Jamieson

03-01-2005, 09:30 AM

whatever nancy boy :rolleyes: like as if you know anything about anything. lol. NOT.

IronFist

03-01-2005, 09:32 AM

ewallace

03-01-2005, 10:11 AM

well then ewallace, you are that .75 in a million vigilante guy then. good for you, maybe a career in policing is for you.

Nope. Just going off previous history. Even though I am generally an *******, I have a tendancy to help those in need. Then again I'm bipolar so go figure.

As far as being a vigilante, none of the incidents did I do anything other than intervine. No punches, kicks, or flaming chi blasts. Only the time, which I mentioned, was I physically involved, which was simply holding a guy down. It was just a reaction.

But to say I'd do x and y in the situation on the vid is a load of crap. Like Mike Tyson said..."Everybody has a plan until they get hit".

red5angel

03-01-2005, 10:52 AM

"whatever nancy boy like as if you know anything about anything. lol. NOT."

anyone else have any doubts as to Kung Lek's inteligence? I didn't think so.....

"Iron Body? Iron Body doesn't protect your jaw. Actually, it really only protects you in carefully designed stage demonstrations where a) you're allowed to warm up and "focus your chi," and b) the physics of the stunt are just right."

Actually Ironfist, this is where your MMA programming has gone awry. While a lot of the more fantastic iron body demos are certainly staged, I consider iron body training just a way of conditioning the body to take shots. It's a matter of muscle control and pain tolerance.

PangQuan

03-01-2005, 10:55 AM

I don't know about you guys, but that first shot would have KTFO'ed me.

Same here, but on the same note, I bet you or myself could have seen his telegraphing a mile away. Dude ****ed it back like a crossbow.

rogue

03-01-2005, 11:12 AM

"whatever nancy boy like as if you know anything about anything. lol. NOT."
anyone else have any doubts as to Kung Lek's inteligence? I didn't think so.....
I think that's the most accurate thing KL's ever said. 18 months from when I start training, the death match is on! Be ready! :mad: :mad: :mad: :eek: :confused: :( Crap I think I pulled a nut. I'll get back to you on the death match.

red5angel

03-01-2005, 11:16 AM

When the death match goes down (Sometime around Christmas I'm hoping but I can't promise anything, I'm afraid of flying) I"m gonna start by pulling your nutz OFF!!!!!! :mad: :confused: :confused: :mad: :eek: :eek: :eek:

rogue

03-01-2005, 11:29 AM

Duuude, that was really gay! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

David Jamieson

03-01-2005, 11:32 AM

That's because red is gayest of all the gay midgets. :D

lol

PangQuan

03-01-2005, 11:46 AM

I think the intelligence factor of this thread just took a nosedive. Point being here is; Some of us would intervene, with the knowledge that we dont know exactly what would happen when we took that step, but none the less, we would take it. Some will sit and do nothing because they dont want to get punched!?!?! Well either way you look at it, it is just two different lifestyles.

There are those who are truly fond of the martial way of life, and there are those who are not. ~Miyamoto Musashi

rogue

03-01-2005, 12:18 PM

That's because red is gayest of all the gay midgets. :D

lol
Now KL, don't go selling yourself short. :D

red5angel

03-01-2005, 12:30 PM

The Willow Sword

03-01-2005, 12:30 PM

I looked at the vid and had headphones on and was trying to make out all the banter and i really could not understand much of what was going on. I mean i read a short article on the matter and it had something to do with her cutting in line or the other guy cutting in line and some gets ****ed off and the anger escalates in to what you all see there. i have always said Trash is as Trash does,,i dont care what color you are or what background you have,,trash is trash.

Now as to the question "Would you have helped in this situation?" i have read the replies and some of them gave me a chuckle. i mean what if he was killing the guy? would you have helped then? would the "martial artists" here who think they are just the sh!t have saved the day? I mean you saw what the other "average joes" did. absolutely nothing.

it amazes me the people of today who will say to themselves " well it isnt my buisness" or " i just dont want to get involved" or " d@mn that guy was big i couldnt have done anything really even if i tried (and thats coming from some of you in here)

I certainly would have attempted to do something,, i mean if a fight ensues between two people the common ettiquette is to watch to see who is going to lose and then intervene when the winner is pounding the other in to the ground,,so as to prevent further harm or even death to the loser lying there.

in this situation you have trashy people with no self respect or control of thier emotions bantering on and making a mountain out of a mole hill about something as trivial as "cutting in line"? and what of the guy on the cell phone? DID he call the woman the "N" word :eek: . if so he got his comeupins. But i wouldnt just STAND there like a fuktard(like the others in that vid) and allow the guy to get killed. I would have stepped in and at least attempted to end the situation,,sure maybe i would have gotten my a$$ kicked,,but at least i could say that i did something to try to help the other guy(regardless of what he said or did) in fact he did not assault the woman at all,,he may or may have not used a racial slur but the Woman chose to let her anger get the best of her and spit(which is technically assault in the eyes of the law) and allow her lowlife man to step in and punch the guy letting his anger get the best of him.
Yes i definately would have done something, after the guy went down i would have stepped in between then and told the guy to "stop,,hes had it hes down,,stop this now" and if i got swung at i would have defended myself to the best of my abiility".
WE NEED DECENT PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO GIVE A SH!T ABOUT OTHERS AND TO ACTUALLY WALK THIER TALK ABOUT HELPING OTHERS AS MOST OF THESE MARTIAL ARTS DECREES HAVE WRITTEN SO ELOQUENTLY IN THIER DOJOS KWOON ETC,,and APPARENTLY ARE SUPPOSED TO TEACH.
Walk and LIVE your Teachings People. or be a coward its up to you.

Peace,,,TWS

PangQuan

03-01-2005, 12:37 PM

"Some of us would intervene, with the knowledge that we dont know exactly what would happen when we took that step, but none the less, we would take it"

don't you understand pangquan, Kung Lek said it ain't true so it ain't true!

Oh...my bad...wait a d@mn second. Screw that. Ill do what I want. :cool:

TWS, Preach on brother. :D

themeecer

03-01-2005, 03:12 PM

and what of the guy on the cell phone? DID he call the woman the "N" word :eek: . if so he got his comeupins.

Oh my .. he used the N word. That is an offense worthy of the electric chair. If he called her a N it is because she was acting like one. :eek:
The only "comeupins" he would have deserved was being called a name himself. (I write this having no idea what comeupins means)

Glad to hear you would step in as well.

IronFist

03-01-2005, 03:25 PM

Actually Ironfist, this is where your MMA programming has gone awry. While a lot of the more fantastic iron body demos are certainly staged, I consider iron body training just a way of conditioning the body to take shots. It's a matter of muscle control and pain tolerance.

Actually, I used to be into kf all hardcore and believed in the iron body thing. Maybe we're talking about two different things.

When you talk about body training and conditioning, I don't consider that Iron Body. A Thai Boxer who can take shots all day without much effect is not doing Iron Body. That's just regular conditioning.

For Iron Body, show me a skinny guy with no fat who can take shots to the lower ribs and not have them break. Show me a guy who can take a punch to the stomach with no warning and no preparation and not be injured. Show me a guy who can take bladed weapon strikes and not be cut (another iron body claim). Show me someone who can do something that can't be trained for by non-iron body means. For example, the aforementioned Thai boxer can take body shots due to his training. Therefore, an effective Iron Body demonstration can not involve the same types of shots because protection against those can be developed by non-iron body means.

Show me someone who can do it in combat, without on stage preparation and having to get into the right stance and tell the attacker "ok, go ahead now." That's not how fights work and it's pretty much useless to have such a skill.

Don't get me wrong, it would be freaking cool to have "Iron Body." Someone comes out of the blue and smashes you in the jaw and, where it would normally break a regular person's jaw, you just laugh it off because "haha, my chi-powered Iron Body saved me." But it doesn't work that way.

If such a skill existed, don't you think professional fighters would be willing to pay HUGE sums of money to learn it? Imagine eating punches all day from Mirko Cro-Cop and not being phased. You'd dominate so hard it wouldn't even be funny.

Oh, that's right, kung fu masters don't teach for money, do they, so the MMA guys will never learn it. Yeah... I forgot... :rolleyes:

red5angel

03-01-2005, 03:45 PM

Actually, I used to be into kf all hardcore and believed in the iron body thing. Maybe we're talking about two different things.

I think we're roughly talking about the same things here, however like most martial arts some things are done differently.

The "iron body" was referred to as "iron shirt". I was never told it was any sort of guarentee, or that it would stop fists, knives, or bullets from hurting me. It mostly consisted of some impact conditioning and a lot of different sorts of pushups. I never once had to rub myself down with hoodoo medicine or drink anything special to allow my chi to set.

non-iron body means

I think that is completely subjective.

Show me someone who can do it in combat, without on stage preparation and having to get into the right stance and tell the attacker "ok, go ahead now." That's not how fights work and it's pretty much useless to have such a skill.

Almost every fighter I know. they've taken so many shots, drops, sweeps and scrapes that their tolerance for that sort of thing is above average, or way above the average depending on who it is. they may not be doing what they call "iron body" training, but they are getting the same sorts of benefits from one who is training sensibly to accomplish the same, or much more specific goal of getting more tough.

"haha, my chi-powered Iron Body saved me."

I odn't believe in Qi, Chi, Ki or power of that sort. It's crap, something used to epxlain what people couldn't understand before, and still used today to sell the so called "spiritual" side of martial arts. Crap.

Let's take Juko Kai for example.......

PangQuan

03-01-2005, 04:33 PM

if this guy can do this http://www.columbia.edu/itc/history/brinkley/3651/photos/sixties/Vietnam1.jpg

im sure there are people willing to step up to some fat idiot with a bad attitude. Really. Think about it. People can be d@mn hardcore. Dont play the human race too short. I remember when I was 12 years old, I ran out in front of a truck to get my dog. Of course the dude hit his breaks and went off the road, otherwise I would probably be, at best, a parapalegic. But the point is, I was 12, of course a little dumb, but I said Fuk it and went anyhow. Have a heart. Learn to care about human kind in general. Go donate some time at a shelter, adopt a child in some 3rd world country, say hello to the next stranger to pass you down the street.

IronFist

03-01-2005, 05:12 PM

A guy burning himself to death isn't iron body.

Fu-Pow

03-01-2005, 05:32 PM

I think Iron Body is more of a system of training your body to withstand strikes.

It's not so different than actually taking strikes. It's just like a short cut to the same end with less chance of injury along the way.

Mostly its just physics, breathing and muscle tension and learning to channel your opponents force into the ground.

The breathing part makes it Qi Gong. Hence, the connection to Qi.

PangQuan

03-01-2005, 05:34 PM

A guy burning himself to death isn't iron body.

I wasnt talking about iron body, I was talking about this threads topic.

IronFist

03-01-2005, 05:38 PM

The breathing part makes it Qi Gong. Hence, the connection to Qi.

So do Thai boxers do Iron Body?

rogue

03-01-2005, 07:40 PM

Think of iron-body as a result and not just something that is trained a certain way. I'm sure the grapplers have some iron body from takedowns, boxers from body shots. It's something that anybody who trains with contact will develop.

David Jamieson

03-01-2005, 08:32 PM

no, you got it right, the vietnam conflict was a war. against communism.

the korean conflict was the police action. against communism.

police action is when it's a UN effort and it's a War when it's a unilateral assault.

anyway, the self immolation thing has been done by buddhist monks as a traditional form of protest. That photo is famous, but he certainly isn't the first monk to have done this action as a form of protest.

as for iron body, its a real thing, its not some side effect of contact fighting and it has direct and indirect bonafide methodologies of training. the purpose being a few things. To be able to withstand great force, fast recuperation fom that force and other things. I wouldn't undersell it. I wouldn't oversell it either.

wdl

03-01-2005, 09:38 PM

Did anyone just watch the "victum" on Bill O'reilly?

He kinda seemed like a jackhole to me though. I don't think he deserved the beating and the girlfriend and her boyfriend were out of control. Probably high on something.

If your an MA instructor in Akron,OH you can recruit yourself a dedicated student though. :D

-Will

Fu-Pow

03-02-2005, 03:54 PM

So do Thai boxers do Iron Body?

It depends on the boxer, but I imagine the good boxers have developed some kind of iron body skill to be able to withstand strikes.

red5angel

03-02-2005, 04:06 PM

kung lek, can you keep your fukking trap shut about politics for 10 seconds without saying something really stupid?

Think of iron-body as a result and not just something that is trained a certain way. I'm sure the grapplers have some iron body from takedowns, boxers from body shots. It's something that anybody who trains with contact will develop.

right. I still have to kill you but atleast I can have a little bit of respect for your weakness before I send you to your maker......

mortal

03-02-2005, 04:06 PM

I would have sucker punched that fat lard from the blindside with everything I had. Then I would have knocked out his troublemaking animal girlfriend.

lolo Then I would have took HIS cell phone!

Judge Pen

03-02-2005, 04:33 PM

Well my knowledge is from one semester of business law and numerous conversations with my professor who is also an attorney. So we will leave this up to our board attorney, Judge Pen. But laws or no laws, I couldn't stand by and see someone take a beating like that.

General common law (the underlying basis for most law in our country) is that you are justified to use force to defend a third party if that third party would be justified in using the same force to defend himself, but that may very well vary from state to state. You would not be justfied in using deadly force against him unless you can say that the guy was in reasonable fear for his life. Generally, against an unarmed attacker, you would not be justified to use deadly force.

What's tricky is speculating whether the guy should have struck first. In hindsight, yes, but at the split second before the haymaker? Who knows. The guy was big and moving in a threatening manner so you may be able to convince a judge and jury that you were justified in fearing for your safety enough to strike pre-emptively.

I would hope that I would have jumped in. I probably would have once the first hit occurred. I would have a lot more leeway in using force then, but I would try to pull the guy off and tell him to chill, he's had enough first. The second the guy put hie eyes on me I would have hit. At least that's how I hope I would have reacted. If one steps in, then the rest would likely join too.

Judge Pen

03-02-2005, 04:35 PM

It depends on the boxer, but I imagine the good boxers have developed some kind of iron body skill to be able to withstand strikes.

Yeah, it's called conditioning.

Mo Lung

03-02-2005, 05:00 PM

What's tricky is speculating whether the guy should have struck first. In hindsight, yes, but at the split second before the haymaker? Who knows. The guy was big and moving in a threatening manner so you may be able to convince a judge and jury that you were justified in fearing for your safety enough to strike pre-emptively.Sure. The victim shows terrible awareness though, by looking down and away from the big guy once the big guy really gets in his face. The victim was scared and showing typical cowering behaviour. Not uncommon or surprising, but that's when the big guy took his opportunity to wind in that big haymaker.
I would hope that I would have jumped in. I probably would have once the first hit occurred. I would have a lot more leeway in using force then, but I would try to pull the guy off and tell him to chill, he's had enough first. The second the guy put hie eyes on me I would have hit. At least that's how I hope I would have reacted. Absolutely. You couldn't do anything before the first hit as it's just two dudes yelling at each other. But once that first hit slammed home and the big fella kept on in there, that's when it's time to step in and tell him to lay off. If he doesn't, you pull him off. If he turns on you, you defend yourself.
If one steps in, then the rest would likely join too.You'd like to think so, but it's not always the case. Did you read about the street encounter I was talking about further back in this thread? There were heaps of people all standing around watching. When I went in, they still stood around watching. If those three guys had decided to pounce on me, I think I'd have been fighting them alone. :(

joedoe

03-02-2005, 05:14 PM

Sure. The victim shows terrible awareness though, by looking down and away from the big guy once the big guy really gets in his face. The victim was scared and showing typical cowering behaviour. Not uncommon or surprising, but that's when the big guy took his opportunity to wind in that big haymaker.Absolutely. You couldn't do anything before the first hit as it's just two dudes yelling at each other. But once that first hit slammed home and the big fella kept on in there, that's when it's time to step in and tell him to lay off. If he doesn't, you pull him off. If he turns on you, you defend yourself.You'd like to think so, but it's not always the case. Did you read about the street encounter I was talking about further back in this thread? There were heaps of people all standing around watching. When I went in, they still stood around watching. If those three guys had decided to pounce on me, I think I'd have been fighting them alone. :(

I was just watching to see how you would go against three punks :D

Seriously though, I think I would be ashamed of myself if I did nothing to help while someone took a beating like that. Whether he deserved to be beat or not is beside the point. He was out of it after the first hit and there was no reason for it to continue. Someone should have tried to stop it.

If we are willing to stand by while someone gets beaten like that and try to justify it by saying that maybe he deserved it, then why do we have laws and a justice system? If you justify it by saying that you don't want to get involved, then put yourself in the place of the man being beaten and see how you would feel if a room full of people stood by and watched while it happened and did nothing to help you.

It just seems to me that as a society we are forgetting about humanity and compassion. We are turning into a pack of animals who live solely by the law of survival. We are supposed to be better than this.

Mo Lung

03-02-2005, 05:26 PM

I was just watching to see how you would go against three punks :DYouwouldn't have been much help anyway, standing there with a pie in each hand. ;)
It just seems to me that as a society we are forgetting about humanity and compassion. We are turning into a pack of animals who live solely by the law of survival. We are supposed to be better than this.Exactly. Do unto others, etc.

joedoe

03-02-2005, 05:29 PM

Youwouldn't have been much help anyway, standing there with a pie in each hand. ;)Exactly. Do unto others, etc.

Yeah, well I dropped both of them because I was laughing too hard watching you try to be tough :D

Mo Lung

03-02-2005, 06:10 PM

Two dropped pies, one each side of you? That would have seemed like seeing triple.

;)

David Jamieson

03-02-2005, 06:44 PM

red, eat my shorts and put some makeup on that coat hanger scar on your forehead for god's sake, your scaring the kids ya goof.

I'll shut up when you shoot yourself. deal? :p

YuanZhideDiZhen

03-03-2005, 01:59 PM

Red5 and Kung Luk:

the banter is too cute. both of you girls have fairly developed opinions reinforced by fairly informed experiences of your selves and those in your own ghettoes.

red5 has a fairly well developed history on this forum of just itching to rip people's stitching or prove she can if given the opportunity.

Kung's style seems best supported by the safety provided by the monitor. if you guys want, i'll try to get the two of you in an ISKA saturday night special.... :cool:

dezhen2001

03-03-2005, 02:14 PM

Two dropped pies, one each side of you? That would have seemed like seeing triple.

;)
How come nothing like that happens when i meet up with you guys :(

red5angel

03-03-2005, 02:29 PM

I'll shut up when you shoot yourself. deal?

just leave the politics out of the threads it doesn't need to be in ok? Is that so hard for you to get through your thick skull? No one on this board agrees with half the crap you're saying so why continute to bring it up?

red5angel

03-03-2005, 02:33 PM

Yuan, what is the ISKA?

I already offered to take KL and Fu Pow in a tag team event (I'm not convinced they are different people). NP offered to ref, all I need is to hear KFM will cough up the ninja outfit - with proper MAM product placement - and away we go.

YuanZhideDiZhen

03-03-2005, 02:55 PM

Red5:

i think i remember that series of bitten tounges....

The International Sport Kickboxing Association was founded in 1999-2000 (that's when i was asked to join) or thereabouts after Chan Pui down-moded his tournament to an in house kumite type tournament. ( it should be noted the chan has reupped his tournament to a public access international tournament since '02) a number of CLF sifus got together to cosponsor it. most of whom were chan's students but they asked me as well. any of our students or people we sponsor/reccommend can enter but we as the principles cannot: that's to prevent the old rivalries from surviving our masters by eliminating the possibility of settling old scores in the ring. the current yaerly top folks are goju and shotokan based with some clf proper and wc and kim na. it's basically a ufc type but thickly padded striking surfaces on the gloves are mandatory. you can still have kim na gloves as long as the pads covering the fingers and back of the palm are substantial enough to reduce the frequency of critical injuries. fortuneately no one has been stretchered out yet. the kids in thier early twenties are averaging around 370 pounds of force per full tilt roundhouse punch (that's close to 450 ft/lbs, about the same as a .357 magnum!)

the average student there uses about 9 different techniques: the winners usually use 11 or 12. in most kickboxing type events the participants only use 8 different techniques.

i don't have any students right now otherwise we'd be there annually....

joedoe

03-03-2005, 03:08 PM

How come nothing like that happens when i meet up with you guys :(

Hint: I wasn't really there ;)

dezhen2001

03-03-2005, 10:29 PM

buit still... you actually dropping 2 pies is a lot more shocking than Mo Lung being hit on by 3 guys :D

SimonM

03-05-2005, 07:30 AM

Mo Lung

03-05-2005, 06:48 PM

buit still... you actually dropping 2 pies is a lot more shocking than Mo Lung being hit on by 3 guys :D
LOL. :D

(7, 8, 9, 10)

scotty1

03-05-2005, 06:53 PM

I already offered to take KL and Fu Pow in a tag team event (I'm not convinced they are different people). NP offered to ref, all I need is to hear KFM will cough up the ninja outfit - with proper MAM product placement - and away we go.

I'm going to have nightmares about those images tonight...

David Jamieson

03-05-2005, 07:23 PM

I already offered to take KL and Fu Pow in a tag team event

sorry dude, even though you do shave your runway, I'm still into girls.

Besides, I could do without a murder rap in my life.

YuanZhideDiZhen

03-11-2005, 11:41 PM

Iron Body? Iron Body doesn't protect your jaw. Actually, it really only protects you in carefully designed stage demonstrations where a) you're allowed to warm up and "focus your chi," and b) the physics of the stunt are just right.

you must be from an korean or japanese initial ma history. all the old guys i know of utilize something you cannot concieve to reduce the damage to thier bodies from attack. even with knives. the training includes qiqong and repetitive increasing abuse to your epidermis: something bread-n-butter schools won't do.

as part of the training i was required to increase my heat resistance by submerging my fore arms in 240 degree brine for ten to fifteen minutes. after i could do that without sweating until the fifteenth minute we moved over to the deep frier.

Tai Yim once asked me,"Why do all the southern guys have restaurants? do they just like to eat a lot?"
my reply: "it affords us unique opportunities for training."

Mo Lung

03-12-2005, 12:26 AM

wdl

03-12-2005, 01:01 AM

Yeah, I'll be waiting on that picture too. Just like I'm still waiting on that lazy
HedgeHodge to post his stinking video that will never see the light of day.

-Will

YuanZhideDiZhen

03-12-2005, 01:40 AM

Let's see a photo of you with your arms in the deep fat fryer then.

i was unable to do my arms in the deep fryer, just my hands and only at 315 degrees fharenheit for about 45 seconds. the skin on my wrists was too thin to allow submersion: it cooked to quikly. it wa smore a matter of qi training and coincided with winter training of cold showers outside in the chilly dark night.

besides, who ever has a camera handy when they're doing crazy stunts? ever take a picture of yourself doing something at a masters level? who are you trying to prove anything to? i'm not trying to prove to you anything: just sharing some experience in training methods that are *unusual*. and not intended for bread-and-butter martial artists or people who have low esteem of others in general or lack of belief in the mind's ability to overcome physical hardship.

why don't you pay someone to supervise your study in CMA instead of wasting your time brow beating someone with different experiences than you?

Mo Lung

03-12-2005, 08:38 PM

So you immersed your hands in a deep fat fryer, with fat at a temperature of 315 F? As part of a training routine? What condition were your hands in when you took them out?

cerebus

03-12-2005, 09:00 PM

"Mmmmm, tastes like chicken..." :D :D :D

wdl

03-12-2005, 09:17 PM

besides, who ever has a camera handy when they're doing crazy stunts? ever take a picture of yourself doing something at a masters level? who are you trying to prove anything to? i'm not trying to prove to you anything: just sharing some experience in training methods that are *unusual*.

There's a difference between a "crazy stunt" and training methods, even training methods that might be unusual.

-Will

PHILBERT

03-12-2005, 09:59 PM

Christ almighty, that guy's a big fat ass. Kick his frigging knee caps with the heel of your foot and watch him go down faster than an unwanted pregnancy on prom night. Then slap his girlfriend with the pimp slap and put her on the street and work her.

cerebus

03-12-2005, 10:27 PM

Hmmmm. It was kinda close quarters. Maybe slam into him so you're too close for him to put any power behind his punches (head right against his chest), then grab his balls and squeeze 'til his eyes pop outta his head. And I gotta agree with Philbert on the proper action to be taken with the spittin'n punchin', loud-mouthin' beeyotch. :p

dezhen2001

03-13-2005, 04:28 AM

Then slap his girlfriend with the pimp slap and put her on the street and work her.
You mean its an actual specific technique? :D

stubbs

03-13-2005, 06:06 AM

Never pi$$ fat people off when they're hungry!!
________
Corvette C5 (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C5)

PHILBERT

03-13-2005, 11:38 AM

Never pi$$ fat people off when they're hungry!!

Aren't they always?

wdl

03-13-2005, 12:38 PM

You mean its an actual specific technique? :D

Yeah, it's like a backfist with an open hand. You just need a glove with, "PIMP" written on the backside to make it complete. :cool:

-Will

dezhen2001

03-13-2005, 02:44 PM

Yeah, it's like a backfist with an open hand. You just need a glove with, "PIMP" written on the backside to make it complete. :cool:
I thought thats where the "ice" came in - a huuge ring with pimp written on it? But i guess if you looked like that down and out pimp in that other clip you would have to make do with the hand :p

wdl

03-13-2005, 05:22 PM

I thought thats where the "ice" came in - a huuge ring with pimp written on it? But i guess if you looked like that down and out pimp in that other clip you would have to make do with the hand :p

I swear that had to be the most unpimp pimp I've ever seen. :D

-Will

SimonM

03-13-2005, 06:37 PM

Aren't they always?

No but when we are doom follows those who stand between us and our meals! :D :eek:

(Of course the funny thing is that three years ago when I weighed twice what I do now I would never have participated in a fat joke. ;))

Mr Punch

03-13-2005, 07:13 PM

No, I don't know if I'd have helped, but yes; very very probably. I have been in similar situations in the past and dived in with a choice opener and less-premeditated follow-ups.

Quite apart from the idea of helping someone else which has been my motivation in the past (and so what if he used the N word? So what if he's an *******? That's no excuse to inflict that much damage... in fact how is laying into him like that gonna stand any chance of changing the guy's racist PoV?), simply selfishness would be my main spur... there's no way I'd be standing around, risking being the next victim in a small room like that with no way to the door! The adrenaline would be too much, and as the assualt was in front of the only exit, the fight-flight response could have only gone to fighting.

IronFist

03-14-2005, 12:08 AM

you must be from an korean or japanese initial ma history. all the old guys i know of utilize something you cannot concieve to reduce the damage to thier bodies from attack. even with knives. the training includes qiqong and repetitive increasing abuse to your epidermis: something bread-n-butter schools won't do.

as part of the training i was required to increase my heat resistance by submerging my fore arms in 240 degree brine for ten to fifteen minutes. after i could do that without sweating until the fifteenth minute we moved over to the deep frier.

Tai Yim once asked me,"Why do all the southern guys have restaurants? do they just like to eat a lot?"
my reply: "it affords us unique opportunities for training."

Again, let's see these guys fight in NHB. Oh wait, that's right. They don't want to. They have nothing to prove. If such a skill existed pro NHB fighers would pay thousands of dollars to have it. Hell, I would pay thousands of dollars to have it and I'm not even a pro NHB fighter. Oh wait, the masters would never teach for money.

Why is it that everytime someone has an awesome skill they will never demonstrate it for anyone? EVER. Is it because they can't really do it? Hmm...

YuanZhideDiZhen

03-16-2005, 11:40 PM

wdl

03-17-2005, 12:44 AM

how much do you have to pay for training? would you relocate? or would you pay for my relocation?

yeah, the training can be had for a price. I'll teach you if you want.

I don't fight in tournaments because i have been prohibited from tournament fighting by Tai Yim and Chan Pui who sponsor the major international kung fu wushu tournaments. the gracies, who sponsor ufc, won't allow anyone from my teacher's style in thier ring.

This is going down the typical path that was seen from the beginning.

"No one will let me fight in their tournaments because they will loose or I will hurt them, etc, etc."

Maybe they won't let you in the ring because as you put it yourself, you do "crazy stunts".

-Will