Star Wars Episode III (Spoilers, Questions & Answers)

[IronFist]

Here (http://www.newgrounds.com/video/losthope.html).

12345

[PHILBERT]

It'll be online tomorrow night. Wait 5 minutes after posted on Hyperspace then the real one will be leaked.

[BibitClerus]

http://s112352282.onlinehome.us/Ep3Trailer_pixelmagic720.mov

[PHILBERT]

That is also a fake. Good stuff, real footage, but fan made.

[IronFist]

^ Really?

123

[Starchaser107]

pretty funny stuff I.F. :D

[PHILBERT]

IronFist, it was confirmed the day it was released. The guy who released it said he made it himself. It's like those fan made trailers for EP2. Just wait a day, and if no one beats me to it, I'll send a link to the trailer.

I forgot, this came from another site that has been getting alot of leaked information.

Here is a breakdown of the trailer....

LFL Logo, Fox logo etc.

A Theta-Class shuttle and three fighters fly by the camera towards Coruscant.

Coruscant, late afternoon, the Republic Executive Office appears for a brief moment.

Palpatine (close-up, speaking very slowly, deliberately, looking straight ahead, watching the ballet)

PALPATINE
...The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural.

Anakin closeup (extremely focused on Palpatine's words)

ANAKIN
Is this possible to learn those powers?"

Palpatine (close-up, matter-of-factly, facing Anakin)

PALPATINE
Not from a Jedi.

A civilian shuttle turns over the Coruscant cityscape towards the Senate building.

Obi-Wan and Anakin are inside the Temple, walking down stairs.

OBI-WAN
The Council wants you to report on all the Chancellors dealings.

Magna Guards stand with two battle droids.

ANAKIN
That's treason.

Palpatine standing up from his chair in his private office.

OBI-WAN
We are at war, Anakin.

The space battle and some explosion where clone-troopers die.

Anakin moves to take a seat in the Chancellor's private viewing box in Galaxies Opera. We see huge spheres of water levitating over stage with dancers inside them.

Mace (voice over, in a grim voice)

MACE
...Very dangerous putting them together...

Palpatine in his office, patting Anakin's shoulder.

MACE
I don't think the boy can handle it...

Mace & Obi in the gunship over Coruscant.

MACE
I don't trust him.

Tri droids blazing guns, Republic fighter exploding, debris flying by.

Palpatine in his office (concerned).

PALPATINE
I need your help, son.

Palpatine walks away from Anakin:

PALPATINE
I'm appointing you to be my personal representative on the Jedi Council.

Anakin standing in the middle of the Jedi Council room. We see him from behind. Ki-Adi-Mundi and Plo-Koon appear holographic with other Jedi Masters present.

MACE
You're on this Council, but we do not grant you the rank of Master.

Kenobi looks away from Anakin's reaction.

ANAKIN (close-up, shocked)
What?

In Padme's apartment - Bedroom.

ANAKIN ( to Padme, bitterly)
Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me.

Huge gun with clone crew, large explosion aboard ship.

Palpatine (V.O)
Learn to know the dark side of the Force...

Anakin grim and focused, listening; then with Padme, at night on the balcony.

PALPATINE in his office (forcefully)
... And you'll achieve power greater than any Jedi.

Anakin briefly fighting Dooku and then the posse entering private office.

Music stops.

The Jedi ignite lightsabers.

MACE
You're under arrest, Chancellor.

Palpatine in his chair carefully controlling his anger.

PALPATINE
Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?"

Close up: lightsaber hilt snaps to Palpatine's hand with audible click.

From now on, 10 drum beats and no other sound - one for each short (second or two) scene

- Posse enter, but this time Sidious jumps in its direction from behind (over) the camera, we only see his back; then Mace in defensive pose;

- Ship (Grievous' fighter) flying away from a planet;

- Obi-Wan in huge control room on Utapau, totally surrounded by battle droids, MagnaGuards and Grievous;

- Capital ships fighting in close quarters, one of them falling down smoking heavily;

- Bail shouting in his speeder, with blaster shots flying by;

- Obi-Wan's fighter flying over Utapau;

- Anakin hanging in the elevator (turbolift) shaft;

- Camera flying down to Mustafar surface;

- Grievous versus Obi-Wan Kenobi duel; we see Grievous from behind only; his fighter and some rocks in the background.

- One-tracked vehicle (tank) speeding on and closing to the camera; Wookiees jump off it, one of them straight on the camera.

Longshot: pillar of smoke over Jedi Temple.

Music returns.

Emperor's voice from the Original Trilogy.

SIDIOUS
Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic...

During this line, brief scenes are shown: Sidious' not so pretty face, Obi-Wan looking anxiously at droids closing on him, then Mace with saber and Palpatine's back (his hair indicates strong wind), then Yoda with clones behind his back - aiming blasters at him.

Chewbacca (close-up), roars.

Tantive IV flies by, towards a planet.

PALPATINE (V.O.):
Do what must be done.

During this line: Anakin Skywalker looks very dark and dangerous, hooded in robe, then leading ranks of troops (shot first from high above and then from ground level, closing to the camera).

PALPATINE (cont.):
Do not hesitate...

During this line: Aayla Secura surrounded by clones who aim blasters at her....

PALPATINE (cont.):
Show no mercy...

Ki-Adi-Mundi also surrounded by clones; they open fire and he tries to block shots with lightsaber.

Then, Anakin Skywalker approaches the camera, probably in a Mustafar bunker, then cuts down two separtists.

OBI-WAN KENOBI (to Yoda inside the Temple):
Who could have done this?

Anakin Skywalker cutting a Neimoidian.

A very sith-like Anakin Skywalker, standing on the pillared balcony on Mustafar, in dark cloak and hood.

YODA (to Obi-Wan):
Twisted by the dark side young Skywalker has become.

Anakin Skywalker cutting into another Neimoidian.

Threepio, leaving Padme on the balcony, Coruscant at night: "I feel so helpless...".

Then a montage:

* Battle over Coruscant.
* Jedi starfighter incoming.
* Padme crying.
* Anakin and Obi-Wan duel in large hall.
* Coruscant battle again.
* Kashyyk battle.
* Obi-Wan and Anakin exchange lightsaber blows in a narrow corridor, with sparks flying off the walls.
* Sidious shooting force lightning at a surprised Yoda.
* Obi-Wan with hands outstretched for a force push, determined and tight, like in a contest "who's stronger in The Force".
* A 10-wheeled Juggernatu tank shoots rockets straight ahead.
* Space battle with R2 close-up.
* Obi-wan jumps back, down to the circuit/ pipe hanging over a lava river.
* Anakin Skywalker with lava in the background.
* Obi-Wan Kenobi with lava in the background, shouting very dramatically, almost through the tears:

OBI-WAN KENOBI -
You were the chosen one!

* Space explosions.
* Sidious throwing Senate pods with The Force.
* Yoda avoiding them and rolling over - Senate chamber in the background.
* Sidious with lightsaber close-up, with a very sinister smile or laugh.
* Craft flying over water, possibly on Kashyyyk; fountains of water arise.
* Huge wave of lava falls over a pipe on Mustafar.
* Obi-Wan and Anakin duel on the balcony. (The same place where Anakin stood earlier, Sith-looking).
* Yoda looks up at the camera, close-up.
* Mace swinging his saber and kicking or falling back
* Space battle again.
* Anakin and Obi-Wan exchange lightsaber blows in mid-air, flying over lava on long cables...

Episode III Revenge of the Sith

Breathing...

Shot from their left side, aboard the Star Destroyer: Vader folding arms on his chest and and Emperor staring straight ahead.

[themeecer]

Just saw the real one on aol. BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! Man I can't wait. One last big hurrah!

[MasterKiller]

http://www.movie-list.net/exclusive/star-wars-ep3-trailer-hd-640.mov

[red5angel]

That's not grevious being escorted by two battledroids is it? It doesn't really look like him.

[MasterKiller]

That's one of Grievous' personal bodyguards. They dress like Jedi and commit murders to turn the public sentiment against the Temple. That's why he's got a cloak.

[red5angel]

That's what I thought.

[Judge Pen]

It looks. . . . promising.

And like it will be PG-13.

[MasterKiller]

So did the trailer for TPM.

[Judge Pen]

So did the trailer for TPM.

Well, yeah, but TPM would have been great if not for Jar Jar.

[MasterKiller]

Um...I think little Mannequin Skywalker has to share part of the blame.

[Judge Pen]

I could tolerate Ani, but not Jar Jar.

[MasterKiller]

I hate the Submarine scenes. They are useless to the plot and full of stupid dialogue.

I hate the podrace announcer.

I hate all the podracers. How Sesame Street can you get?

I hate C3P0's new origins.

I hate when Capt. Panaka reads R2D2's name off the "invisible" name plate on his chassis.

I hate that scene where Qui-Gon tells Obi-Wan he's forsees him becoming a great Jedi and you can tell Obi-Wan is wearing a wig.

I hate when the Gungans say "Yousa in big do-do this time."

I especially hate Anakin's slave buddy. I cringe every time he misses that high-five with Greedo after the podrace. He was supposed to be Boba Fett, once upon a time...

[red5angel]

I didn't mind TPM, or the last movie to be honest. I've enjoyed the new trilogy and I really like the new technology used for the special effects. As a kid I wasn't into the "deep" story behind Star Wars, I was interested in lightsabers, starships and space battles, and lots of cool droids. Now that I'm all grown up, it turns out I still like lightsabers, starships, space battles and cool droids. My taste hav expanded slightly, I like cool bad guys, cool good guys and the other neato technology of SW. Everyone who has played Annakin can't act, but neither can Keanu Reeves and that didn't stop me from enjoying The Matrix. Jar Jar - but not necessarily the Gungans - sucked but so did the Ewoks and I still enjoy ROTJ.
It's obvious from the New Trailer Annakin still can't be played by someone who acts, the effects are gonna be kick ass, Ewan Mcgregor has done the best ****ed Alec Guiness in the universe, and the Jedi really are fukked.
I'm not camping out but we plan on getting in line at noon. Why you might ask? Because I've waited in line at noon for the other two and this will be the last movie I wait in line for or go to a midnight showing of.

[The Willow Sword]

The Light sabre fights in the new stuff. Yeah thats right i dislike them utterly.

twirling them around like some highschool baton twirler.

I liked the lightsabre fights in the old movies and do you know why? KENDO. They had Real Kendo Instructors training the peeps in the old movies,,and yes it was embelleshed a tad but still the fight scenes were done with more "intent" and Mastery rather than the ROTC style twirling we see now.

now i know what you puds are gonna say " :eek: WHAT? You mean YOU didnt like the fight in the Star wars 1 with the dual bo staff light sabre,,oh man that was sooo cool". "SHame on you TWS,,Shame."

and my reply "whatever,,,what-ev-errrrrrr" Star Trek RULES(gives all you starwars freaks the finger) :D


Peace,,,TWS

[MasterKiller]

and my reply "whatever,,,what-ev-errrrrrr" Star Trek RULES(gives all you starwars freaks the finger) :D Wesley Crusher and Jordie are gayer than Ewoks and Gungans.

[The Willow Sword]

Man you know what Hooked me onto The Next generation? When i Saw,in the beginning shows, Dianna Troi in her Intergalactic cheerleader outfit :D
We have Liftoff..........................................p oof. :o

[MasterKiller]

Blue Twi'Lek Jedi womens do it for me (http://www.geocities.com/kwenn2/aayla.html)

and Slave Bikini Leias (http://www.leiasmetalbikini.com/)

[red5angel]

I liked the lightsabre fights in the old movies and do you know why? KENDO.

I can see your point. Apparently Lucas didn't realize that Kendo pervades all intergalactic plasma sword combat. What was he thinking in the last three movies?



Wesley Crusher and Jordie are gayer than Ewoks and Gungans.

jordie is alright, I think his character suffered more bad writing then anything else. Wesley Crusher however SHOULD FUKKING DIE.

[themeecer]

I loved Jar Jar and the Ewoks. I love everything from the fuzzy little cute creatures down to Han shooting Greedo first. :) I have no need for everything to be raw, in your face, adult oriented action.

I prefer the new fighting. In episode IV Darth moved like a 400 year old man. (Um .. a 400 year old man whose name isn't yoda)

And I think Hayden does awesome in his role. In Episode II, his description on what he did to that villiage was awesome. I could see just enough evil in it. Young Anakain was fine as well .. he was an innocent kid. Innocent kids say Yippiee. Also it brought more depth to the character to see how far he traveled down the dark side.

And yes Ewan Mcgregor rocks in his role. He does well in all his roles.

But we are talking about the holy grail of movies. You are always going to find someone critical of it. In the meantime I will be watching my updated original trilogy on DVD and enjoying every minute of it. Ummm .. while I sit in a horse stance.

[MasterKiller]

You know what I hate about the OT DVDs?

Luke's green lightsaber in ANH on the Millenium Falcon. It's supposed to be blue.

The red boxes they forgot to digitize out when the tie fighters attack the MF in ANH.

WTF George? You can make an enitire movie digitally but you forget to quality check the most important DVD release in the last 5 years???????

The "Wesa Free" line added to the end of the celebration in ROTJ.

Everything else is cool.

The only thing I hate about AOTC is the stupid picnic scene. I can live with everything else.

[themeecer]

Argh!! So many acronyms. Well I think the ABC should LOL and say WTF! Because the RSVP will BRB and then we all will be ROTFLMAO. Makes my heard hurt reading this thread.

[red5angel]

I'm with you on AOTC - I oculd have done without the picnic scene.


I got a couple of questions I can't seem to find the answers for. During the movies does anyone know if Shaakti has a padawan?

I still haven't heard what the deal is with Palpatines appearance as the Emperor, is he hiding his ugliness? I had heard that in EP III something happens to him that explains it all.


Was the Juggernaut vehicle created by the Lucas team or was that a product of the fiction they decided to include in the movie?

[MasterKiller]

Shaak Ti has Padawan's in the EU, but not the movies:


Shaak Ti has trained two Padawans in her career as a Jedi Master, but sadly saw both of them fall victim to criminal killers shortly after their passing of the Jedi trials. For years, she secretly kept in her heart the pain of losing Fe Sun, one her students, to the Zeltron murderer Lyshaa, though her Jedi demeanor of detachment hid these emotions.

The Emperor is using the Force to disguise himself. He's really old, using the Dark Side to prolong his life 'unnaturally." The Sith see immortality as living forever; the Jedi see immortality as merging with the Force. This is the dichotomy presented in EP III.

I don't know what you mean by Juggernaut. From the new trailer?

[red5angel]

At the end of the new trailer, the 10 wheeled vehicle the clones are using. In the EU, more specifically the West End Games RPG, it was supposed to be a precursor to the AT AT walker, and later functioned as a command center and combat platform for the clones/stormtroopers.

Ok, I'd heard that about the Emperor but then read in what I thought was the script that something happens to him that changes him in the movie. It makes more sense since aparently the whole immortality thing seems to be one of the things he entices Annakin with.

[Shaolinlueb]

i went to midnight showing of the past 2. might as well do it for this one. since this one looks awesome.

[PHILBERT]

Obi-Wan dives into a forward roll that ends up with him on the rim of a low cliff, just above the soft black sand of a lava riverbank.

Anakin snarls at Obi-Wan, realising he has been tricked. He leaps off his droid at Obi-Wan's back but is half a second too slow.

Obi-Wan whirls to parry Anakin, but his saber doesn't meet Anakin's blade. Instead, he slices off Anakin's leg at the knee. Then he slices of the other leg at the knee. And while Anakin is still in the air, Obi-Wan uses his blade to slice off Anakin's left arm above the elbow. He steps back as Anakin falls.

Anakin drops his lightsaber, clawing at the edge of the cliff with his mechanical hand, but his grip becomes too powerful for the lava bank and the edge crumbles, and he slides down onto the black sand.

His severed legs and his severed arm rolls into the lava below him and immediately burns.

Anakin claws at the soft black sand, but his struggling only makes him slip ****her. The sand itself is hot; digging his mechanical arm into it burns off his glove, and his robes begin to smolder.

Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lightsaber. He lifts his own as well and weighs them in his hands. Anakin had based his design upon Obi-Wan's and thus they appear very similar.

"Obi-Wan..." pleads Vader from the riverbank. Kenobi looks down. Vader's jedi robes burn while his hair is blackened.

"You were the chosen one! It was said you would destroy The Sith, not join them. It was you who would bring balance to The Force, not leave it in darkness. You were my brother, Anakin," says Obi-Wan. "I loved you, but I could not save you."

Above in the sky, Obi-Wan sees a Theta-Class shuttle entering the atmosphere.

Suddenly, Darth Vader bursts into flame.

"I hate you" screams Vader. Obi-Wan Kenobi turns, not wanting to go against the Jedi Code and murder, walks away.


DAAAAAAAAAAAYUM

SAN HILL
Welcome, Lord Vader! On behalf of the leadership of the Confederacy of Independent Systems, let me be the first to...

VADER
Very well. You will be the first.

VADER removes his hood and ignites his saber.

SAN HILL
You're Anakin Skywalker!

VADER digs his saber into the chest of SAN HILL.

VADER
The resemblance is deceptive.

SHU MAI
We were promised a reward...a handsome reward!

VADER
I am your reward. You don't find me handsome?

RUNE HAAKO
Stop! Enough! We surrender, do you understand? You can't just kill us!

VADER
Can't I?

RUNE HAAKO
We're unarmed! We surrender! Please, please, you're a Jedi!

VADER
You fought a war to destroy the Jedi.

VADER slashes RUNE HAAKO.

VADER (cont.)
Congratulations on your success.

[tug]

MK, can you re-post the link to the real trailer? The original seems to have expired.

[MasterKiller]

It's on StarWars.com now.

[tug]

Riiight. I guess I could've figured that out myself. Thanks anyway.

[brothernumber9]

Star Wars Republic Commander, the video game was promoted as having some pre episode III filler info.

MK or Philbert, or anyone else, to what degree do you know about it? I have the game and am roughly half way through I think. So far the game mostly gives insight into the development of small clone commando units designed to be sort of special forces for clone troopers. The game introduces a slaver race that uses alot of shot guns, and seem to be the grunts for the separatists in conjunction with the bug race from geonosis (?sp). I'm at a point now where the "Delta" commandos are on a covert mission on the wookie planet to save their captured leader.

[MasterKiller]

As far as I know, you just get to see some new creatures and locations from EP III vignettes of the Clone Wars battles.

[Jhapa]

so, how many of you guys or gals, going to skip work on the opening day of SWIII, I probably going to wait about 2-4 weeks before i go see it, let the crowd die down some. i waited about a month before i went to see I and II. not too fond of crowded movie theather.

[PHILBERT]

Im gonna go to a midnight showing.

EPISODE III TERNIAN REPORT: You Sure Is Ugly

March 19 2005

At the entrance to the Jedi Temple, a hunchback brings forth a baby to the disguised Clone Troopers. In the hunback's arms is a small baby. The hunchbank presents the baby to the Clone Trooper, claiming it is a Jedi.

"Anyone could grab some deformed kid and claim it's anything they want. How do you know it's a Jedi?" asks the Sergeant.

The baby replies: "My lightsaber, the first clue would be, hmm?"



Suddenly, a green saber ignites, slashing across the sergeant's face. The hunchback man rights himself and a blue blade appears.

In a clipped Coruscant accent, Obi-Wan states: "Please don't try to resist. No one has to get hurt."

The men of Decoy Squad Five attack. None of them survive.

[Shaolinlueb]

so why does the emperor turn all human to some gross form?

[MasterKiller]

Because he would have been pretty easy to spot if he looked like that all along. He's using the force to disguise his true self. It's all a part of that little scheme to oust Chancellor Vallorum, assume control of the Senate, and declare himself Emperor so he can purge the galaxy of the Jedi Order.

[Judge Pen]

Because he would have been pretty easy to spot if he looked like that all along. He's using the force to disguise his true self. It's all a part of that little scheme to oust Chancellor Vallorum, assume control of the Senate, and declare himself Emperor so he can purge the galaxy of the Jedi Order.

Plus it's easier to get the chicks when you don't look like a baboon's butt.

[red5angel]

Im gonna go to a midnight showing.

EPISODE III TERNIAN REPORT: You Sure Is Ugly

March 19 2005

At the entrance to the Jedi Temple, a hunchback brings forth a baby to the disguised Clone Troopers. In the hunback's arms is a small baby. The hunchbank presents the baby to the Clone Trooper, claiming it is a Jedi.

"Anyone could grab some deformed kid and claim it's anything they want. How do you know it's a Jedi?" asks the Sergeant.

The baby replies: "My lightsaber, the first clue would be, hmm?"



Suddenly, a green saber ignites, slashing across the sergeant's face. The hunchback man rights himself and a blue blade appears.

In a clipped Coruscant accent, Obi-Wan states: "Please don't try to resist. No one has to get hurt."

The men of Decoy Squad Five attack. None of them survive.


what the hell is that?

Friends and I are going to get in line at noon like we have for the last two, to see the midnight showing.

[MasterKiller]

I'm suprised PHILBERT hasn't posted the fight scene yet between R2D2 and another astromech droid. And yeah, I'm being serious.

[Judge Pen]

I'm suprised PHILBERT hasn't posted the fight scene yet between R2D2 and another astromech droid. And yeah, I'm being serious.

:eek: Now this is starting to sound ominous. If Yoda actually breaks wind in this movie, I will be routing for the Emperor to kick his a$$

[Shaolinlueb]

woah r2d2 fights? thats kinda lame. is c3p0 gonna do a robot dance competition against other droids?

[Shaolinlueb]

so the emperor i take it is really really old then? using the dark side of the force to keep himself alive? nice.

[red5angel]

so the emperor i take it is really really old then? using the dark side of the force to keep himself alive? nice.


exactly, but more specifically the dark side of the force.

[PHILBERT]

what the hell is that?

Friends and I are going to get in line at noon like we have for the last two, to see the midnight showing.

It's from the new movie. There is a forum online that has been releasing secrets of the new movie, and so far everything is accurate, down to the trailer descriptions they have. Even some drawings from the new comic have been released, and sure enough the stuff is in there. After Anakin kills the Jedi at the temple, troopers stand guard outside dressed in Jedi robes, but without the helmets on (armor underneath it) to try and assassinate any Jedi who happen to come to the temple. Obi-Wan and Yoda realize this and do that.


I'm suprised PHILBERT hasn't posted the fight scene yet between R2D2 and another astromech droid. And yeah, I'm being serious.

Actually, its R2D2 versus a Super Battle Droid. It's at the beginning of the movie, when Obi-Wan and Anakin land on General Grievous' flag ship to save Palpatine's life.

[PHILBERT]

Star Wars Republic Commander, the video game was promoted as having some pre episode III filler info.

MK or Philbert, or anyone else, to what degree do you know about it? I have the game and am roughly half way through I think. So far the game mostly gives insight into the development of small clone commando units designed to be sort of special forces for clone troopers. The game introduces a slaver race that uses alot of shot guns, and seem to be the grunts for the separatists in conjunction with the bug race from geonosis (?sp). I'm at a point now where the "Delta" commandos are on a covert mission on the wookie planet to save their captured leader.

I don't know jack crap about the video game, but I can pretty much tell you anything about the new movie, including what happens where, down to who is born first, Luke or Leia, and why Luke goes to Tatooine and Leia to Alderann.

[MasterKiller]

It's from the new movie. There is a forum online that has been releasing secrets of the new movie, and so far everything is accurate, down to the trailer descriptions they have. You just now finding the millenium falcon forums? :p

For all you curious kiddies:

http://www.millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/index.php?sid=0719ecf646befc0c299ba9a90ed51963

[MasterKiller]

so the emperor i take it is really really old then? using the dark side of the force to keep himself alive? nice.
Actually, I'm going to modify what I said...Every time the Emperor uses the Dark Side, it eats away at him a little bit. He goes ape-**** with some force lighting in EP III and it screws up his appearance on the spot.

[PHILBERT]

MasterKiller, I've known about MF for a long time now. I just never visit it, cause on this website I'm a member of, there is a thread devoted to the new movie and one guy literally cross posts everything.

[red5angel]

Actually, I'm going to modify what I said...Every time the Emperor uses the Dark Side, it eats away at him a little bit. He goes ape-**** with some force lighting in EP III and it screws up his appearance on the spot.


Ok, that's basically what I had heard a few months ago. Something during the EPIII happens to make him a little more gruesome then he is now. It makes sense, he's been in hiding all these years so he probbaly hasn't used the force all that much. A sudden surge of it, and it being the dark side and all......

[MasterKiller]

Disturbing this is, and most unexpected. My insights into the Force seem to be proven wrong. This excerpt is from the novelization:

The implication is that....well.....Anakin does have a father.

DONT READ THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO RUIN THE ORIGINAL MOVIES FOR YOURSELF FOREVER.





































In the Galaxies Theatre, Anakin Skywalker is the guest of the Chancellor Palpatine. The elite of Coruscant have gathered to watch the graceful movements of a female Mon Calamari soloist.

As the graceful dancer moves about stage, Chancellor Palpatine recounts an old story; The Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

This infamous Dark Lord of the Sith supposedly gained such an insight into The Force that he was actually able to influence the midichlorians to create life. Anakin becomes interested in this story after his haunting dreams of Padme’s death – perhaps this time he could prevent her death, unlike his mother’s.

Anakin asks what happened to Plagueis in the story. Palpatine says that he was murdered by his apprentice as soon as he discovered the same power. Still thinking about Padme, Anakin asks “Would it be possible to learn this secret in some way?”

"Clearly, not from the Jedi," replies Palpatine with a gentle smile.

[red5angel]

I'm not sure I get the same implication you do. They don't give any reference points for Plagueis, however, it seems to me it was a long time ago. That's an assumption but usually when something like this is reference in these types of movies it seems like they are refering to a historical event or something long past. I'd support that by pointing out that he says PLagueis was "infamous", but the Jedi claim that the Sith have been gone for a long time.

[MasterKiller]

No. Plageuis was Sidious' master. Sidious killed him, and in the novel they make a few statements to suggest Palpatine is not older than he appears. All that stuff about staying alive with the Force was changed/re-written at some point.

The whole concept is built around midi-chlorians, and how the jedi use them and how the Sith use them. The Jedi listen to them for advice while the Sith manipulate them to make the Force bend to their will.

Sidious teaches Anakin that the midi-chlorians can be controlled, even to the point of CREATING LIFE.

Anakin sides with Palpatine because he has been dreaming of Padme's death and wants a way to protect her.

Anyway, I hate the whole concept of midi-chlorians, and I hate the implication, that while IT WON'T BE DISCUSSED IN THE MOVIE, it's possible Sidious spawned Anakin with this 'unnatural' power.

[Judge Pen]

I'm not sure I get the same implication you do. They don't give any reference points for Plagueis, however, it seems to me it was a long time ago. That's an assumption but usually when something like this is reference in these types of movies it seems like they are refering to a historical event or something long past. I'd support that by pointing out that he says PLagueis was "infamous", but the Jedi claim that the Sith have been gone for a long time.

I think the implication is that Sideous, who learned the same skill, manipulated the midichlorians to create Anakin while using Shimi Skywaler as a host. The speculation that the Emperor was Anakin's father has been around for a while, but most considered it too blatant a rip-off of Episode V's revelation to actually be used in the prequels.

[red5angel]

where is it determined that Plageus is Sidious master? In the book?

Regardless I think it's still a pretty big leap saying it implies Plageus or Even Palpatine was his father. While Schmi says there was no father, it's never explained if that was literal or proverbial. She could have been shamed into just not wanting to talk about how Annakin was begot.

[Shaolinlueb]

i hear vaders father was jabba the hut. ;)

[Judge Pen]

Regardless I think it's still a pretty big leap saying it implies Plageus or Even Palpatine was his father. While Schmi says there was no father, it's never explained if that was literal or proverbial. She could have been shamed into just not wanting to talk about how Annakin was begot.

Yeah? Where were you "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away?" Tantooine getting busy with Schimi?

[Shaolinlueb]

Yeah? Where were you "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away?" Tantooine getting busy with Schimi?

cause you would be embarressed if jabba the hut sexed you up too.

[red5angel]

cause you would be embarressed if jabba the hut sexed you up too.

that would depend on how big his hoohoo is.... :D

[Shaolinlueb]

that would depend on how big his hoohoo is.... :D


hey everybody! everyone! jabba sexed up redangel5!

[PHILBERT]

where is it determined that Plageus is Sidious master? In the book?

Regardless I think it's still a pretty big leap saying it implies Plageus or Even Palpatine was his father. While Schmi says there was no father, it's never explained if that was literal or proverbial. She could have been shamed into just not wanting to talk about how Annakin was begot.

When you see the new movie, he says that Plageus was Sidious' master. And I don't think Anakin is spawned from the Sith. I think it really is the prophecy. There is no hint that any of the Sith met his mom, and that'd just be stupid if he did.

[Shaolinlueb]

im confused about the sith master aprentice thing. there can be only those two? will the apprentice ever become the master or only when he kills his own master. how do they expect to expand again? or is it the whole stay hidden thing and do what darth sideous did and take over?

[MasterKiller]

im confused about the sith master aprentice thing. there can be only those two? will the apprentice ever become the master or only when he kills his own master. how do they expect to expand again? or is it the whole stay hidden thing and do what darth sideous did and take over?

The apprentice usually kills the master for a power play. The Sith are all about power and control, so when the apprentice senses a weakness in the master he'll exploit it and try to usurp the mantle.

There used to be millions of Sith. Basically, the Jedi Order was divided in half. You had one side that wanted to use the Force for knowledge and defense and one side that wanted to use it's power to force the galaxy into getting along. There was a war, and losing side was banished on an outer-rim planet called Korriban. There, they honed their darkside abilities and subjigated the indigenous populated, known as Sith, because the natives thought these exiled Jedi were gods. So, after a millenia of cross-breeding, they eventually became known as Lords of the Sith. Once Hyperdrive technology became available to them, they left the planet Korriban with the intent on purging the Jedi.

But because they are soooo power hungry, they killed one another off until only Darth Bane remained alive. He went into seclusion after the Great Hyperspace War because the Jedi tried to exterminate the Sith Cult once and for all. Darth Bane started the rule of two because he knew if there were any more than that, they would basically just kill each other off and the Cult would die out.

Using the dark side of the Force does not make you a Sith. The Sith are a particular dark side Cult.

I thought you play KOTOR? They do a pretty good job of covering all that in the game.

[Shaolinlueb]

The apprentice usually kills the master for a power play. The Sith are all about power and control, so when the apprentice senses a weakness in the master he'll exploit it and try to usurp the mantle.

There used to be millions of Sith. Basically, the Jedi Order was divided in half. You had one side that wanted to use the Force for knowledge and defense and one side that wanted to use it's power to force the galaxy into getting along. There was a war, and losing side was banished on an outer-rim planet called Korriban. There, they honed their darkside abilities and subjigated the indigenous populated, known as Sith, because the natives thought these exiled Jedi were gods. So, after a millenia of cross-breeding, they eventually became known as Lords of the Sith. Once Hyperdrive technology became available to them, they left the planet Korriban with the intent on purging the Jedi.

But because they are soooo power hungry, they killed one another off until only Darth Bane remained alive. He went into seclusion after the Great Hyperspace War because the Jedi tried to exterminate the Sith Cult once and for all. Darth Bane started the rule of two because he knew if there were any more than that, they would basically just kill each other off and the Cult would die out.

Using the dark side of the Force does not make you a Sith. The Sith are a particular dark side Cult.


makes perfect sense now :D

[red5angel]

I believe the Sith also encourage the destruction of the master by the student.

The Witches of Dathomir are an example of dark side users who are not Sith. You can also have lightside users who are not Jedi, I can't think of any good examples except the race on Horuun Kar.

Hey Masterkiller, have you heard how old the Republic is? For some reason something like 25K years got stuck in my head but I was just reading a book that mentioned that Yoda is almost as old as the Republic at 900.

[MasterKiller]

Depends on who you ask.

Palpatine says the Republic is 1,000 years old in AOTC.

Obi-Wan says the jedi were the guardians of peace and justice throughout the galaxy for "a thousand generations" in ANH, which to me implies the existence of the Republic.

Starwars.com says

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. Before a cruel and ruthless Empire supplanted it, the Old Republic was the democratic union that governed a galaxy for thousands of years. Those who lived in it knew it as the Galactic Republic, or more simply, the Republic.

In the Expanded Universe, you get

With the signing of the Galactic Constitution on Coruscant more than 25,000 years ago, the Republic was born. Though history often recalls the Republic as an idyllic utopia, a less biased examination reveals numerous galactic conflicts -- such as the Hundred-Year Darkness, the Great Droid Rebellion and the Vultar Cataclysm -- throughout its reign.

[red5angel]

aight, figured it was just incontinuity on the part of the sources.

I'm reading Shatterpoint right now, not a bad piece of work for the most part. One of the better SW books I've read anyway. Not sure if I want to bother with the space medic series. It looks interesting but I'm not sure how interested in ER in Space I am. Mostly I just like the background of the Jedi.

[MasterKiller]

Check this out:

http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/scan_page3.jpg

[MasterKiller]

Major spoilage on Mace:

http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/scan_page1.jpg

[MasterKiller]

Anakin's End:

http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/scan_page2.jpg

[MasterKiller]

Padme gets hers:

http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/scan0004i.jpg

[MasterKiller]

C3P0 remembers nut-zing.

http://img16.paintedover.com/uploads/16/scan0005i.jpg

[PHILBERT]

Would it have been easier to put all those in a single post?

[red5angel]

nice. I'd heard he get's it in the back but I believe the words I heard/read were "stabbed in the back" which could be just metaphorically.

[PHILBERT]

Keep in mind though, the comic has to fit into 4 issues. Some of the material is cut, some changed. Like in the Attack of the Clones comic, it shows Obi-Wan and Anakin helping Yoda prevent that giant block from falling on them, but the movie it wasn't. I've heard that Anakin and Mace fight a little bit before getting dearmed. And Palpatine isn't lying on the ground, he's on his knees begging for his life, talking to Anakin, and Mace tells him to shut up.

[Shaolinlueb]

the thing that ****es me off is, in the old trilogy, they made anain to be this great knight of the jedi and ****. and turns out hes a whiny little bitc*. if he was this noble warrior blah blah who turned it would have been like why? and so much ebtter. this one hes just a *****. f that ****.

[PHILBERT]

the thing that ****es me off is, in the old trilogy, they made anain to be this great knight of the jedi and ****. and turns out hes a whiny little bitc*. if he was this noble warrior blah blah who turned it would have been like why? and so much ebtter. this one hes just a *****. f that ****.

So esentially they made him like Luke. :p

But don't forget, he beats Dooku, so him killing a Sith Lord is a big thing.

BTW here is a new picture of R2D2 getting ready to beat down a couple super droids.

[red5angel]

Luebie - watch the second season of clone wars and you'll see why they make a big deal out of him.

[MasterKiller]

the thing that ****es me off is, in the old trilogy, they made anain to be this great knight of the jedi and ****. and turns out hes a whiny little bitc*. if he was this noble warrior blah blah who turned it would have been like why? and so much ebtter. this one hes just a *****. f that ****.


Anakin is the hero of the Clone Wars. He's like a goddayum rockstar. Everyone knows him, and everyone loves him. He's the people's champion.

Obi-Wan is pretty famous, too.

You'll see that played out in the movies.

[red5angel]

Hey MK, I can't recall if I saw a book or a comic starring Shaakti, do you know which it is?

[MasterKiller]

I dunno. The only book I've read was Shadow Hand, and I only read that for Darth Maul. And it sucked, anyway.

I know Aayla Secura (the smokin' blue Twi'Lek) is in a lot of comics.

You might browse around here and see what you can find:
http://www.starwarz.com/

[red5angel]

I found it, it was a comic book.

If you're interested in SW fiction at all, check out Shatterpoint by Matthew Stover. I've been consistantly let down by the few SW books I've read but this one isn't half bad. The guy writes Samuel L Jackson playing Mace Windu pretty well too in my opinion.

[MasterKiller]

What's your fascination with Shaak Ti?

[MasterKiller]

Dead Jedi Kids:
http://img216.exs.cx/img216/6845/jedikids8pi.jpg

[red5angel]

huh, I'd think there would be more parts lying around, if Annakin participated in it.


I don't know Shaak Ti's kind of cool, I'd like to find out more about the character.

[Shaolinlueb]

wheres the thread with the link to all the pictures?

[MasterKiller]

Lueb,
If you go back a page on this thread, you'll see a bunch of pictures I linked to. There's some major spoilers in there, though.

[Shaolinlueb]

spoilers are nice. :D

[Judge Pen]

http://www.aint-it-cool.com/display.cgi?id=19763

This guy claims to have seen it. I think he's full of crap.

[MasterKiller]

I haven't gotten through all of it, but Vader IS the chosen one. He fullfills the prophecy when he kills Palpatine in ROTJ.

[MasterKiller]

http://img158.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img158&image=057cb.jpg

http://img158.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img158&image=023za.jpg

[Judge Pen]

You should have posted a link to that sweet picture of Mace and Palapatine fighting.

[MasterKiller]

This one?

http://img158.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img158&image=076mf.jpg

[Judge Pen]

Yeah that one. My friend and I have debated this: Does Palapatine need Anakin to help defeat Mace or does he manipulate Anakin be acting like he needs his help?

[MasterKiller]

Mace, or any of the Jedi, are not in their prime because they have lost their connection to the Force. Sidious could easily defeat him. He uses the event to convince Anakin the Jedi have betrayed the Republic.

[Judge Pen]

Mace, or any of the Jedi, are not in their prime because they have lost their connection to the Force. Sidious could easily defeat him. He uses the event to convince Anakin the Jedi have betrayed the Republic.

I knew that he used the event to sway Anakin (along with the promise of power and immortality for him or Padme), but a good part of their fight occurs without Anakin being present. Palapatine quickly disposes of the other 3 Jedi, why not Mace?

[MasterKiller]

He's stalling, waiting for Anakin to show up.

[Judge Pen]

Well how does Obi-Wan defeat Anakin then if he's not in tune to the force? And from what I've read, Yoda fights well against Palapatine, but has difficulty dealing with all the force lightning and flying Senate Pods. Why doesnt' Palapatine kill him if he could?

[red5angel]

I think Yoda is powerful enough to resist even Palpatine, he is almost 900 yrs old after all.

[red5angel]

I"m guessing the character that shows up to spill his guts to Yoda and Obi Wan is Qui Gonn

[MasterKiller]

Well how does Obi-Wan defeat Anakin then if he's not in tune to the force? And from what I've read, Yoda fights well against Palapatine, but has difficulty dealing with all the force lightning and flying Senate Pods. Why doesnt' Palapatine kill him if he could? Anakin isn't fully trained and he's reckless. Obi-Wan is more skilled and in control of his emotions.

Remember what Vader says to Obi-Wan in EP IV. "When I left you I was but the learner. Now, I am the Master."

Yoda loses to Palpatine, although he doesn't get hurt. When Bail Organa rescues Yoda, he asks if Yoda is hurt. "Only my Pride," Yoda says. He still loses and has to book it out of the Senate Chamber before Palpatine kills him.

http://img205.exs.cx/img205/9476/story15lg.jpg

Looks pretty beaten up to me...

It's just speculation at this point.

[spiraler]

oh NO! YOOODAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Judge Pen]

Anakin isn't fully trained and he's reckless. Obi-Wan is more skilled and in control of his emotions.

Remember what Vader says to Obi-Wan in EP IV. "When I left you I was but the learner. Now, I am the Master."

Yoda loses to Palpatine, although he doesn't get hurt. When Bail Organa rescues Yoda, he asks if Yoda is hurt. "Only my Pride," Yoda says. He still loses and has to book it out of the Senate Chamber before Palpatine kills him.

http://img205.exs.cx/img205/9476/story15lg.jpg

Looks pretty beaten up to me...

It's just speculation at this point.

Nah what's going to happen is that Palpy gets Yoda on the ropes and continues hitting him with big boot stomps and back-handed chest slaps, and just when you think Yoda is down for the count, he's going to raise one arm in the air and force push Palpy off of him. Palpy, surprised, is going to hit him even more lighting (a.k.a back-hand chest slaps) but Yoda's going to shrug them off and slam Palpy to the mat and Palpy's going to get on his knees and beg for mercy until one of his Imperial guards sneaks up beheind Yoda with a folding metal chair and smacks him across the back of the head. (That's where this picture comes into play). I think Lucas should start taking cues from the WWF. :D

[sean_stonehart]

Nah what's going to happen is that Palpy get Yoda on the ropes and continues hitting him with big boot stomps and back-handed chest slaps, and just when you think Yoda is down for the count, he's going to raise one arm in the air and force push Palpy off of him. Palpy, surprised, is going to hit him even more lighting (a.k.a back-hand chest slaps) but Yoda's going to shrug them off and slam Palpy to the mat and Palpy's going to get on his knees and beg for mercy until one of his Imperial guards sneaks up beheind Yoda with a folding metal chair and smacks him across the back of the head. (That's where this picture comes into play). I think Lucas should start taking cues from the WWF. :D

Dang... have you been talking to Sifu? :p :D

[Judge Pen]

Nah, I'vbe just been living in Tennessee for too long! :D

[MasterKiller]

So, I guess I'll see you guys at the midnight madness Wal-Mart event tonight, huh? All the new toys will be available.

[Judge Pen]

So, I guess I'll see you guys at the midnight madness Wal-Mart event tonight, huh? All the new toys will be available.

Nah, I'm too old for toys.

[MasterKiller]

I'll just pretend you didn't say that, Tekken boy.

[Vash]

I'll just pretend you didn't say that, Tekken boy.

That's Tekken man, Yoda-Bich.

[Judge Pen]

World of difference between video games and little plastic men with little plastic lightsabers.

[MasterKiller]

World of difference between video games and little plastic men with little plastic lightsabers.

No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.

[Judge Pen]

MK's cracking. He needs a Star Wars fix stat!

[PHILBERT]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/THRAWN/simg00144un6rc.jpg
This is when the Emperor esentially "crosses" over and his face changes from the normal one to the scary old man.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/THRAWN/simg00077pf.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v717/THRAWN/charcoalanakin7od.jpg
21-B, the droid that helped Luke

[red5angel]

ya know, when EP1 came out I bought several of the figures. When EP2 came out a bought a few more, but somehow realized that when I was a kid, owning them all was cool because I could play with them! now they just sit around collecting dust and taking up space.

Fortunately, being the gaming geek that I am, Wizards ofthe Coast has come out with the miniatures that I can use with my RPG so I get to play with them all over again :P

[MasterKiller]

Well, first off, I don't buy the 3-in. figures. There are just toooooo many variations of basically the same figures, and they don't even fit in the vehicles anyway.

Second, I mostly only buy Darth Vader stuff. Not little Annie, Anakin Skywalker, or Crispy Anakin, but full body-suit Darth Vader stuff. I've been collecting Vader stuff since I was 6.

Third, I don't buy any Jedi stuff. I mostly the Sith Lords, but I pick up the occassional Boba Fett or Jango Fett item once in a while.

Fourth, I only buy the 12-in. figures, the Unleashed Series, or anything else that looks cool on my book shelf. Tonight, I'm mainly going for the new 12-in. Vader, and the Vader and Greivous 8-in. Force Battlers. If I can find the Dooku and Sidious Galactic Heroes, (http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=http://www.rebelscum.com/toys2005/new-heroes-loose.jpg) I'll pick them up as well.

[red5angel]

I liked the unleashd stuff, I have a couple of them myself.

[Zenshiite]

huh, I'd think there would be more parts lying around, if Annakin participated in it.


I don't know Shaak Ti's kind of cool, I'd like to find out more about the character.

It's a comic called "Jedi: Shaak Ti" it is like the second in the "Jedi" comic series set during the Clone Wars.

You need to get the Clone Wars trade paperback volume 2 or 3 i think.

In fact, get all of those Clone Wars TPBs... they're GREAT!

[Zenshiite]

A friend of mine hooked me up with 12 of the 3" figures like a week before they were to be put on the shelves and the Obi-wan lightsaber... i'm an Obi-wan fan.

[red5angel]

as far as Obi Wan goes, since these last couple of movies have come out I have a lot more respect for the character.

[MasterKiller]

Shaak Ti got pasted by Grevious but they cut the scene out of EP III. Just in case you wanted to know...

[Judge Pen]

Shaak Ti got pasted by Grevious but they cut the scene out of EP III. Just in case you wanted to know...

They have a history. . . . He kicks her tail twice in the Clone War cartoons.

[MasterKiller]

They have a history. . . . He kicks her tail twice in the Clone War cartoons.

The Season 2 fight was the beginning of EP III, including Shaak Ti's death. But Lucas cut it because he thought it introduced Grevious too early. :rolleyes:

The first scene of EP IV is Darth Vader kicking butt. He should have introduced Grevious in EP II, just like Dooku should have been introduced in EP I. Oh well.

[Judge Pen]

The Season 2 fight was the beginning of EP III, including Shaak Ti's death. But Lucas cut it because he thought it introduced Grevious too early. :rolleyes:

The first scene of EP IV is Darth Vader kicking butt. He should have introduced Grevious in EP II, just like Dooku should have been introduced in EP I. Oh well.

I got the impression that she "survived" Grevious in the last Clone Wars episode, to tell the Jedi what happened. A "leave one alive" strategy to propogate fear and intimidation. Are you saying she died after telling Yoda what happened?

[MasterKiller]

I got the impression that she "survived" Grevious in the last Clone Wars episode, to tell the Jedi what happened. A "leave one alive" strategy to propogate fear and intimidation. Are you saying she died after telling Yoda what happened?

In EP III, that scene ended with her pasted. They changed it for the cartoon. For all intents and purposes, she is dead. Not only do most of the Jedi die in the Clone Wars battles, but several have fallen to the Dark Side, joined Dooku, and committed murders against the other Jedi... Mace Windu's disciple, Depa Bileba, is one of them. That's one reason the general public doesn't mind when the Jedi get eliminated. Palpatine convinces the Senate that the Jedi were behind the CLone Wars as a sort of revolution against the Republic. That's why he recruited Dooku...as a fall guy. An Ex-Jedi he could blame for the events of the war.

Grevious is a fall-guy too. He is sent to capture Palpatine as a trap for Obi-Wan, but he thinks he's doing it to end the war for the Separatists.. Palps wants to kill Obi-Wan to remove his influence over Anakin.

[red5angel]

Shaak Ti got pasted by Grevious but they cut the scene out of EP III. Just in case you wanted to know...


do you mean she get's pasted in EPIII? I know Greivious whacked her pretty good in Clone Wars.


Mace Windu's disciple, Depa Bileba, is one of them.

Depa didn't join Dooku. She had some issues with the darksidebut she ended up fighting for the tribesmena on Haruun Kal and falling to the dark side but I think just barely.

[MasterKiller]

do you mean she get's pasted in EPIII? I know Greivious whacked her pretty good in Clone Wars. I'm saying originally, that was the opening of EP III. The whole chase. And it ended with Shaak Ti getting killed.

They cut it from the movie and when they decided to do another season of Clone Wars, they basically just animated the cut scene, but changed her death.

She's basically dead when EP III starts. You won't see her in the movie.

[red5angel]

You don't happen to know where Palpatine is from do you? i'm trying to put some things together and I can't remember the timeline.

The Sith supposedly died out a 1000 years ago at roughly the time of the movies, give or take a century. I assume that is when they went into hiding? Who was Palpatines Master and is he really from Naboo?

[Judge Pen]

I'm saying originally, that was the opening of EP III. The whole chase. And it ended with Shaak Ti getting killed.

They cut it from the movie and when they decided to do another season of Clone Wars, they basically just animated the cut scene, but changed her death.

She's basically dead when EP III starts. You won't see her in the movie.

But they have her Revenge of the Sith action figure in Wal-Mart!

[MasterKiller]

You don't happen to know where Palpatine is from do you? i'm trying to put some things together and I can't remember the timeline.

The Sith supposedly died out a 1000 years ago at roughly the time of the movies, give or take a century. I assume that is when they went into hiding? Who was Palpatines Master and is he really from Naboo?

The Sith were wiped out at the Battle of Ruussan 1032 years before the Battle of Yavin. Darth Bane was the sole survivor and started this incarnation of the Sith Order.

Plageuis was Palpatine's master. Palpatine killed him when once he learned how to use the Force to extend life. I don't know where's originally from, but he has been on Naboo for since at least Padme was a little girl because she remembers him being there during her childhood.

[MasterKiller]

But they have her Revenge of the Sith action figure in Wal-Mart!
The Action Figures were developed in 2004. Well before they removed the scene.

[red5angel]

crap, I knew all that. I guess it's just been one of those days.

[Judge Pen]

I can't keep up with the Extended Universe stuff. That's all subject to change at the whim of Lucus anyway. . . . Anyway, it's all subject to change at the whim of Lucus.

[red5angel]

I can't keep up with the Extended Universe stuff. That's all subject to change at the whim of Lucus anyway. . . . Anyway, it's all subject to change at the whim of Lucus.


right, I tuck it away as interesting pieces of knowledge but don't take it as golden.

[MasterKiller]

Check out this Fan-Film trailer.

http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/comingsoon/revelations/

[red5angel]

for a fan film that actually doesn't look too bad.

How does one go about purchasing these sorts of things?>

[red5angel]

forget it I found the site. Got anymore good SW fan films?

[MasterKiller]

The chick in this one is smokin'

http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/shortfilms/darkredemption/index.asp

This one is cool:
http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/shortfilms/knightquest/

FUnny:
http://www.theforce.net/fanfilms/shortfilms/pinkfive/index.asp

[Shaolinlueb]

for some reason i think master killer must be in one of these movies.

[red5angel]

for some reason i think master killer must be in one of these movies.


I think he's the smuggler pilot who has the great "birthing hips"

[Shaolinlueb]

I think he's the smuggler pilot who has the great "birthing hips"

LMAO.... nice.

[PHILBERT]

I got my ticket for the 12:01 AM showing opening night.

[MasterKiller]

I got my ticket for the 12:01 AM showing opening night.
N e r d .

[Judge Pen]

Any man who can cite, chapter and verse, the extended universe, cannot call another man a n e rd. :D

[MasterKiller]

Any man who can cite, chapter and verse, the extended universe, cannot call another man a n e rd. :D
I can't cite the much EU verbatim. I don't even like the EU very much. Especially now that Lucas broke a lot of the well-established storylines (Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother, not Anakin's step-brother! :mad: )

If I were to write the Prequels, I would change a few things.

1. NO MENTION OF MIDI-CHLORIANS.

2. I would have used more existing species from the OT for the Trade Federation, et al. I mean, he had plenty of material to work with. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

3. I would have Obi-Wan suggest they land on Tattooine because he thinks his brother will help them. Owen held a grudge against Obi-Wan for leaving the moisture farm to become a Jedi (That's how it used to be, anyway). At some point, Owen needs to tell Obi-Wan not rush off to fight any "Damm fool idealistic crusades."

4. Get rid of Kidster. Get rid of stupid love scenes between 8 year-old Anakin and 14 year-old Padme.

5. Dooku should have a brief appearance in EP I where talks about how the Republic no longer functions, preferbly during the "Vote of No Confidence" scene.

6. EP II should have started with the battle over Coruscant between Jedi, Courscant militia, and Trade Federations ships. (Actually, EP II DID start this way in the pre-9/11 production. Too many ships hitting buildings forced them to change it...)

7. Darth Maul should have lived through EP I and in EP II the Senators who disagreed with the military creation act would be systematically assissinated by Maul, so the Jedi are once again called in to protect Padme while at the same time struggling to protect the Republic. Obi-Wan kills Maul sometime in the first 3rd of the film, and in doing do gets mixed up in the quest to find Kamino. Jango Fett is introduced on Kamino as per EP II, he just isn't involved with the assissantion attempts on Padme.

8. Get rid of stupid love scenes and "political" talk between Padme and Anakin.

9. Introduce Grand Moff Tarkin A LOT sooner. I love that guy in EP IV, and he seems to be the only one who gives Vader any respect. They should have had a relationship in the prequels.

[PHILBERT]

My sister in law is having a C-section on the 19th of May for the birth of my nephew. I **** you not. So the baby is going to be called a Star Wars baby by me for the rest of his life (and Highlander cause his name is Conner). I don't know what time it will be at, but I am not showing up at 4:00 to see the nephew, then leaving for a 6 pm showing. I'm not showing up at 10 am and leaving for an 11 am showing. So I am just gonna see the midnight showing.

That and I am a nerd.

[Shaolinlueb]

I can't cite the much EU verbatim. I don't even like the EU very much. Especially now that Lucas broke a lot of the well-established storylines (Owen Lars was Obi-Wan's brother, not Anakin's step-brother! :mad: )

If I were to write the Prequels, I would change a few things.

1. NO MENTION OF MIDI-CHLORIANS.

2. I would have used more existing species from the OT for the Trade Federation, et al. I mean, he had plenty of material to work with. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

3. I would have Obi-Wan suggest they land on Tattooine because he thinks his brother will help them. Owen held a grudge against Obi-Wan for leaving the moisture farm to become a Jedi (That's how it used to be, anyway). At some point, Owen needs to tell Obi-Wan not rush off to fight any "Damm fool idealistic crusades."

4. Get rid of Kidster. Get rid of stupid love scenes between 8 year-old Anakin and 14 year-old Padme.

5. Dooku should have a brief appearance in EP I where talks about how the Republic no longer functions, preferbly during the "Vote of No Confidence" scene.

6. EP II should have started with the battle over Coruscant between Jedi, Courscant militia, and Trade Federations ships. (Actually, EP II DID start this way in the pre-9/11 production. Too many ships hitting buildings forced them to change it...)

7. Darth Maul should have lived through EP I and in EP II the Senators who disagreed with the military creation act would be systematically assissinated by Maul, so the Jedi are once again called in to protect Padme while at the same time struggling to protect the Republic. Obi-Wan kills Maul sometime in the first 3rd of the film, and in doing do gets mixed up in the quest to find Kamino. Jango Fett is introduced on Kamino as per EP II, he just isn't involved with the assissantion attempts on Padme.

8. Get rid of stupid love scenes and "political" talk between Padme and Anakin.

9. Introduce Grand Moff Tarkin A LOT sooner. I love that guy in EP IV, and he seems to be the only one who gives Vader any respect. They should have had a relationship in the prequels.

i dont get why vader didnt get any respect form the military leaders in 4. he was the emporers right hand man. did they not like his jedi tricks?

[MasterKiller]

i dont get why vader didnt get any respect form the military leaders in 4. he was the emporers right hand man. did they not like his jedi tricks?
He's a relic, a follower of an extinct religion that is blamed for the onset of the Clone Wars and the need for Imperial rule. The Jedi are not well liked after the Clone Wars.

Remember how they treat Obi-Wan in EP IV? "That wizard is just a crazy old man."

[Jhapa]

can't wait till it comes out, of course i'll wait about a month before i go see it. hate crowded movie theaters, especially if i get stuck sitting in the front section. my neck hurts just thinking about it.

[red5angel]

He's a relic, a follower of an extinct religion that is blamed for the onset of the Clone Wars and the need for Imperial rule. The Jedi are not well liked after the Clone Wars.

Remember how they treat Obi-Wan in EP IV? "That wizard is just a crazy old man."

Actually I think it's more just an opportunity to let Vader choke some dudes.

For me it's a sign that GL hadn't really had many ideas for the first 3 episodes. I think he chose to label ANH as Episode 4 to be different and because it get's people thinking. For example, the Jedi Order existed for thousands of years and had a huge influence on the Republic. 18 years after the war against the Jedi BEGINS - not ends - somehow the galaxy has forgotten all about them except as near myth?

[MasterKiller]

Actually I think it's more just an opportunity to let Vader choke some dudes.

For me it's a sign that GL hadn't really had many ideas for the first 3 episodes. I think he chose to label ANH as Episode 4 to be different and because it get's people thinking. For example, the Jedi Order existed for thousands of years and had a huge influence on the Republic. 18 years after the war against the Jedi BEGINS - not ends - somehow the galaxy has forgotten all about them except as near myth?
The orginal release wasn't called EP IV. He added that on the 1978 re-release.

The basic idea was that he wanted the story to start in the middle, like if you went into a theater and saw a Flash Gordon seriel episode.

The original draft for Star Wars reads an awful lot like The Phantom Menace.

[MasterKiller]

Check out the new Cingular ringtones for some EP III spoliers, like Grevious' voice.

http://tones.cingular.com/

[Shaolinlueb]

so even though vader is the emperors right hand man, they denounce the jedi or something after the clone wars and write them out of the history books?

[MasterKiller]

Yeah, pretty much. Not too much different than what Mao did with Shaolin, right?

[Chizica]

Anybody seen the full 40 minute feature yet? I burned it to DVD to watch with my surround sound system yesterday. The acting was so-so, the dialouge was kinda crappy, there were parts that it looked like the audio was definitely dubbed in, but over all it wasn't a half bad film for an amatuer flick. Just goes to show what can be done with a few PC's these days

[MasterKiller]

I haven't downloaded it yet. My connection at home is faster than at work, but I rarely get online at home.

[red5angel]

downloaded it last night, plan on watching it at lunch today.


As a fan film the effects look pretty incredible. I never expect much from acting in these films but some are worse then others.

[Shaolinlueb]

fan films are kinda gay most of the time. but they are actually done really well with effect. i still like art of the saber fighting the best.

[red5angel]

fan films are kinda gay most of the time. but they are actually done really well with effect. i still like art of the saber fighting the best.


Art of the Saber isn't that film with the two dudes fighting in the woods is it? They carry lightsabers but look like their in a sony chiba film?

[Shaolinlueb]

Art of the Saber isn't that film with the two dudes fighting in the woods is it? They carry lightsabers but look like their in a sony chiba film?


yeah it is, i love the fight scene in there compared to the others i have seen.

[red5angel]

While the choreography is ok, I'm not sure why they chose to use lightsabers really. I was under the impression when someone sent it to me it was a starwars fanfilm but it doesn't come off like that.



Bythe way watched the 40 min Star Wars Revelations last night. It wasn't too bad. Probably the best fan film I've seen in a while. The acting is better then average for the most part then most fan films - although Darth Vader sucks. The effects are incredible. Storyline is ok. Overall if you're a starwars fan I'd recommend it.

[Judge Pen]

MK, someone told me the reason Vader cannot throw force lighting (which Dooku can) is that he is more machine than man and has no organic arms. Is that "true?"

[MasterKiller]

MK, someone told me the reason Vader cannot throw force lighting (which Dooku can) is that he is more machine than man and has no organic arms. Is that "true?"

I've never heard that, but it may be buried in some EU source somewhere.

Vader can do anything Force related, even stuff other people can't, so I doubt it. If he can choke a mutherfocker from a couple of parsecs away (Capt. Needa), he could surely lightning someone's @ss across a room, wouldn't you think? He even deflects laser bolts with his hand! Yoda can't even do that. The Jedi have to use their sabers to deflect laser bolts.

He is pretty much the most powerful Force-sensitive ever; or at least, since Exar Kun died. I just don't think lightning is Vader's style. He chokes people. That's his schtick.

[Judge Pen]

Who is Exar Kun?

[MasterKiller]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/exarkun/?id=eu

The temple the Rebels are hiding at in ANH is the Massassi ruins. The reason they are hiding there is because Exar Kun's presence prevents Vader from tracking them down there.

[Judge Pen]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/exarkun/?id=eu

The temple the Rebels are hiding at in ANH is the Massassi ruins. The reason they are hiding there is because Exar Kun's presence prevents Vader from tracking them down there.

:eek: Who thinks of all this stuff?

[sean_stonehart]

JP ... I offered you some EU reading materials last time I was up homey... :D

[MasterKiller]

And for the record, all trained Force-Sensitives can throw Force lightning. The Jedi don't because they use the Force for knowledge and defense only, which is why you only see Sith doing it.

In ROTJ, Luke uses Force choke against the Gamorrean Guards in Jabba's Palace, which is also traditionally thought of as a Sith Force power, but since he was defending himself, I suppose it's permissable.

There are no "good" and "bad" powers. The Force just is. How you use it determines your allegiance.

He also uses Force invisibility during the battle of Endor while he's fighting Vader on the 2nd Deathstar (During Vader's "so you have a sister" speech), but a lot of people miss that.

[Judge Pen]

JP ... I offered you some EU reading materials last time I was up homey... :D

And I'll say here what I said then. . . . who has time to get that far immersed in a universe that changes at the whim of a man who can't even finish a film that was shot in the 70s. I love Star Wars, but not that much. I read Zahn's first book and that was enough for me. . . .

[Judge Pen]

And for the record, all trained Force-Sensitives can throw Force lightning. The Jedi don't because they use the Force for knowledge and defense only, which is why you only see Sith doing it.

In ROTJ, Luke uses Force choke against the Gamorrean Guards in Jabba's Palace, which is also traditionally thought of as a Sith Force power, but since he was defending himself, I suppose it's permissable.

There are no "good" and "bad" powers. The Force just is. How you use it determines your allegiance.

He also uses Force invisibility during the battle of Endor while he's fighting Vader on the 2nd Deathstar (During Vader's "so you have a sister" speech), but a lot of people miss that.

Ok, so you're telling me that Yoda can throw lightning? Why doesn't he in EPIII when he is in the fight of his life?

Plus I thought you said, earlier in this thread, that Palpy changes to the grotesque form because he went "crazy" with some dark side powers. If there's no difference execpt how you use it, how can that be the case?

[MasterKiller]

Ok, so you're telling me that Yoda can throw lightning? Why doesn't he in EPIII when he is in the fight of his life?

Plus I thought you said, earlier in this thread, that Palpy changes to the grotesque form because he went "crazy" with some dark side powers. If there's no difference execpt how you use it, how can that be the case?

When Yoda absorbed Dooku's lightning, he was using lightning, but just as a defense.

Attacking with the Force is the path toward the Dark Side. Yoda would die first rather than cross that line, don't you think?

Palpatine taps into the Dark Side too deeply during the fight, that's what messes him up. He goes on an @pe-shlt offensive. It's not the lightning that messes him up, per se...it's how aggressively he's trying to use it. If he were using the Force to throw popsicles that aggressively, it would have had the same effect.

[Judge Pen]

Well, flipping around like the Tasmanian Devil trying to take Dooku's head off with a lightsaber is aggressive. It's aggressively defending himself. Absorbing lightening isn't using it, imo.

Sometimes you have to kill to be defensive. You have to be aggressive to be defensive (preemptively) I'll wager that we will see Yoda kill in EPIII (clone troopers most likely). The intent is to defend and prevent from being killed so it's not an evil, but I'd bet he will be aggressive in making it happen.

[MasterKiller]

Killing people is not inherently evil. Using the Force to kill people is the path toward the dark side. Yoda has killed many people in his lifetime, including the spirit that haunts the cave on Dagobah where Luke failed his first test. Obi-Wan kills Maul. Mace killed Jango Fett, etc...

One might argue that wielding a lightsaber takes knowledge of the Force, and therefore using a lightsaber to kill should lead to the Dark Side. But it's all about intent. Intention is the dividing line between the light side and dark side.

[Judge Pen]

Killing people is not inherently evil. Using the Force to kill people is the path toward the dark side. Yoda has killed many people in his lifetime, including the spirit that haunts the cave on Dagobah where Luke failed his first test. Obi-Wan kills Maul. Mace killed Jango Fett, etc...

One might argue that wielding a lightsaber takes knowledge of the Force, and therefore using a lightsaber to kill should lead to the Dark Side. But it's all about intent. Intention is the dividing line between the light side and dark side.

So would the intent to kill using lightening. You can use it to stun, knock back etc and that wouldn't be evil by your definitions. I always thought that weilding a lightsaber required force knoweldge (or immense strength) because of the forces it excerts.

Like you said, Luke used a Force choke to kill a guard (I assume he died) but it was defensive. Obi-Wan looks pretty aggressive in his fight with Maul as does Luke v. Vader in ROTJ.

The report that I read says that Yoda poses as a "baby" to get back into the Jedi temple and slashes a trooper across the face to gain access.

[MasterKiller]

So would the intent to kill using lightening. You can use it to stun, knock back etc and that wouldn't be evil by your definitions. I always thought that weilding a lightsaber required force knoweldge (or immense strength) because of the forces it excerts. Lightsabers are notoriously dangerous to use. You have to use the Force to help control it; otherwise, you would slice yourself to pieces. Building one takes an even deeper knowledge of the Force, but that's a different can of worms.


Like you said, Luke used a Force choke to kill a guard (I assume he died) but it was defensive. Obi-Wan looks pretty aggressive in his fight with Maul as does Luke v. Vader in ROTJ. Both Obi-Wan and Luke are dangerously close to the Dark Side in those duels. Obi-Wan would have probably been turned if Maul hadn't pushed him down the vent and given him time to gather his wits. Same with Luke--had he killed Vader in that fit instead of just wounding him, his path toward the Dark Side would have begun. Luke lowers his saber when he sees Vader's twisted mechanical hand and realizes what he is about to become...


The report that I read says that Yoda poses as a "baby" to get back into the Jedi temple and slashes a trooper across the face to gain access. It's just a silly movie. Don't read too much into it. :p

[Judge Pen]

It's just a silly movie. Don't read too much into it. :p


Bwahahahahahahahah. That's really funny coming from you! Plus, what else have we got to over-analyze?

[PHILBERT]

Don't forget, Han used the lightsaber in ESB (though for just a couple seconds).

And if anyone wants the original copy of Star Wars the script, I mean the original with Annikin Starkiller, Deak, Artwo, etc. Lemme know, I got it on my PC.

[red5angel]

And for the record, all trained Force-Sensitives can throw Force lightning. The Jedi don't because they use the Force for knowledge and defense only, which is why you only see Sith doing it.

In ROTJ, Luke uses Force choke against the Gamorrean Guards in Jabba's Palace, which is also traditionally thought of as a Sith Force power, but since he was defending himself, I suppose it's permissable.

There are no "good" and "bad" powers. The Force just is. How you use it determines your allegiance.

He also uses Force invisibility during the battle of Endor while he's fighting Vader on the 2nd Deathstar (During Vader's "so you have a sister" speech), but a lot of people miss that.


Yep, and I think Luke's intention isn't to hurt the gamorreans but convince them they don't want to mess with him. He might actually be saving their lives and so doesn't have to worry about the dark side.


As for force invisibility, it should be pretty obvious he's using it since when he jumps up he's basically hiding "under" a stair case that Vader is also under!

[Shaolinlueb]

wait who was telling me luke went to the dark side for a bit after ROTJ? but he came back, is that true?

[PHILBERT]

Dark Empire 1. He went to the dark side hoping to defeat Palpatine's clone (The Emperor would use clones and transfer from body to body) and ended up staying there until Leia saved him. Then they defeated the Emperor. Again.

[MasterKiller]

wait who was telling me luke went to the dark side for a bit after ROTJ? but he came back, is that true? Attacking out of anger is the path to the Dark Side. Had he killed Vader during that fit, he would have slipped to the Dark Side. But, he saw the hand and regained his composure, much to the dismay of the Emperor.

Same thing happened to Obi-Wan against Darth Maul after Qui-Gon was killed. Obi was pizzed and attacked viciously, but regathered himself while hanging in the vent shaft.

[PHILBERT]

MasterKiller, I don't think Obi-Wan would of turned evil. Indeed he was ****ed, but he was also defending himself and his master.

Don't forget though, Obi-Wan and Yoda kept telling Luke to confront Vader and defeat the Emperor. How is he gonna do that other than killing them? Sit down with cookies and milk and discuss the political differences and come to a negotiation? They wanted Luke to kill them straight up.

[MasterKiller]

Like I said, killing is not inherently evil. It's all about intent, and the way you go about it. If Luke had killed the Emperor out of anger or rage, like the Emperor wanted him to, he would have swung to the Dark Side. If he remained calm and peaceful and killed the Emperor out of love (KEYWORD for EP III) for his friends, he would remainon the Light Side.

Obi-Wan tried to kill Maul in a fit of rage for striking down Qui-Gon. Had he killed Maul in that rage, he would have slipped to the Dark Side.

Intention is everything.

[Stranger]

Obi-Wan's anger also made him susceptible to Darth Maul's Force attack.

[Shaolinlueb]

yo so luke did go to the darkside for a bit?

[MasterKiller]

yo so luke did go to the darkside for a bit?
In the Expanded Universe he did, but people bounce back and forth in the EU all the time. It gets silly. Just look at Kyle Katarn. He's been a Jedi, a rogue, a Dark Jedi, a rogue again, a Jedi, and a rogue....I wish someone would kill him, preferably Mara Jade.

[Shaolinlueb]

In the Expanded Universe he did, but people bounce back and forth in the EU all the time. It gets silly. Just look at Kyle Katarn. He's been a Jedi, a rogue, a Dark Jedi, a rogue again, a Jedi, and a rogue....I wish someone would kill him, preferably Mara Jade.


i hate kyle too. he was in the jedi knights game as my teacher and i was like, shiet they dont make jedi like they used to before the clone wars.

[red5angel]

Obi-Wan tried to kill Maul in a fit of rage for striking down Qui-Gon. Had he killed Maul in that rage, he would have slipped to the Dark Side.


I don't think I see it that way. Obi Wan and Qui Gon Jin were looking to kill the Sith anyway, or possibly capture. Qui Gon got killed and while Obi Wan seemed distressed about that fact, he didn't seem to be overly ****ed off when he fought Maul. Luke was easy to push because his Jedi training was minimal and incomplete for the most part, Obi Wan is a completely different story.


IF anything should be wiped from the face of existance in the EU it's Timothy Zahn. And his crappy SW books.

[MasterKiller]

IF anything should be wiped from the face of existance in the EU it's Timothy Zahn. And his crappy SW books.
I've yet to read a good SW book. I pick them all up and try to like them...they just all suck @ss. Even the movie treatmens. I've only read one all the way through. But then again, I'm not really a Sci-Fi fan.

[red5angel]

Some of the latest Clone War novels haven't been too bad. The one about Mace Windu was pretty good. I just started reading Rogue Squadron, mostly because I like Stackpoles writing and it isn't too bad.

Zahns' however were not just badly written but it's like the guy never saw the original movies.

[Shaolinlueb]

so wait if lukes jedi trianing is minimal, he really isnt that powerful then? or does yoda and obiwan continue to train him in their spiritual form? because if he isnt complete he may be the only one but how can he trian others? fill me in? and do they just train anyone now, kid or adult?

[MasterKiller]

so wait if lukes jedi trianing is minimal, he really isnt that powerful then? or does yoda and obiwan continue to train him in their spiritual form? because if he isnt complete he may be the only one but how can he trian others? fill me in? and do they just train anyone now, kid or adult?
Yoda and Obi-Wan acknoweldge that Luke wasn't fully trained, but he was all they had and time was running out. Luke himself later struggles after the Battle of Endor when he re-establishes the Jedi Temple on Yavin 4. He has no manuals...no books....no holocrons...nothing to help him train new Jedi.

He learned how to build his ROTJ lightsaber from a manual in Obi-Wans hut on Tattooine, and that's pretty much all he had to start with.

Obi-Wan advises him for a little while, but eventually Obi-Wan loses his ability to maintain his identity in the Force and Luke pretty much just wings it from there.

The post-Clone Wars Jedi aren't quite the same as the pre-Clone Wars Jedi. They aren't a primarily religious order. Luke trains them to help re-establish order in the Republic and squash Imperial Remnant uprisings, so they are almost a para-military organization.

There are also lots and lots of other Dark Jedi running around from time to time as well.

[red5angel]

and what the fukk is a "Dark Jedi"? There's only one Jedi order, and they are lightside followers.

[MasterKiller]

Mostly, it's just used as a term for Darkside users who are not associated with the Sith Cult.

The galaxy is ripe with them after Sidious dies. During his reign, he only allowed a few Force-sensitives to live past childhood. Once the Empire starts to crumble, there are lots of Force-sensitives running around with no training. Some are good, some are bad. Not all of them are either Jedi or Sith, though.

Jedi who turn to the Darkside are called Dark Jedi, also.

[red5angel]

I guess the latter makes some bit of sense. I heard some dude throwing around the term some time ago and was trying to figure out exactly what that is. He kept referring to the Sith as Dark Jedi and I had to point out the Sith weren't Jedi, they were Sith.

[MasterKiller]

At any rate, I think it probably originated with Vader's official title as "Dark Lord of the Sith" from the original novel. I think later EU writers just ran with the whole "Dark" motif.

A lot of dunder heads still think Dark Jedi = Sith.

[Shaolinlueb]

so are there any good books on this stuff or no?

star wars is a universe i would like to see other movies come out for that arent based soley around the current lineup. like that whole war where only 2 sith lords are left would be a cool movie or the mandalorian (sp?, where the fetts got their armor) war would be. even what happened after the ROTJ. see luke and his para military stuff go on. so does yoda maintain his force power longer too, and how about his father anakin, he can retain his power longer too correct? so they can teach him correct?. and all the holocrons are gone right? that sucks for them. see some of those confused force sensitive users and what happens. maybe another cult of dark jedi arise with a master well trained in the jedi forces.
so luke isnt really a jedi master by old standards. he was their only hope correct?

[MasterKiller]

so are there any good books on this stuff or no? The comics are better than novels, IMO.


star wars is a universe i would like to see other movies come out for that arent based soley around the current lineup. like that whole war where only 2 sith lords are left would be a cool movie or the mandalorian (sp?, where the fetts got their armor) war would be. even what happened after the ROTJ. see luke and his para military stuff go on. Play KOTOR and KOTOR II. The video games do a decent job on filling in most of these details. Other than that, Dark Horse Comics is your best bet.


so does yoda maintain his force power longer too, and how about his father anakin, he can retain his power longer too correct? so they can teach him correct? They all eventually lose their ability to maintain their indentity in the Force. Luke communicates with them, Obi-Wan the longest, but eventually he's on his own by the time of the YuzzongVong invavsion.


and all the holocrons are gone right? that sucks for them. see some of those confused force sensitive users and what happens. maybe another cult of dark jedi arise with a master well trained in the jedi forces. Lots of Dark Jedi are running around after ROTJ. Luke loses some students to the Dark Side. Even the Sith pop up from time to time, and without the "Rule of Two" holding them back.


so luke isnt really a jedi master by old standards. he was their only hope correct?correct.

[red5angel]

yep comics for the most part are the way to go for some good EU information. The books are hit or miss, mostly miss. That Fan film Revelations, that MK posted a link to a while back wasn't half bad either but it doesn't really deal a whole lot with anything from the books.

[Shaolinlueb]

The comics are better than novels, IMO.

Play KOTOR and KOTOR II. The video games do a decent job on filling in most of these details. Other than that, Dark Horse Comics is your best bet.

They all eventually lose their ability to maintain their indentity in the Force. Luke communicates with them, Obi-Wan the longest, but eventually he's on his own by the time of the YuzzongVong invavsion.

Lots of Dark Jedi are running around after ROTJ. Luke loses some students to the Dark Side. Even the Sith pop up from time to time, and without the "Rule of Two" holding them back.

correct.


what is YuzzongVong invasion? so wait they destroyed the emperor and the sith, so what do they want for the jedi, to get rebuilt? but half of them probably all suck big ass cause they dont have full training. they are jsut guys running aorund dodgeing lasers with their light sabers and choking people and pushing things or pulling them closer and using the jedi mind trick. they arent even half as powerful as the jedi of old. man i rather be a jedi knight of old then the new para military ones. so what are some good comic reads out there? anything in graphic novel form?

so sith come back, dark jedi are numerous, and luke is still a padwan. but the dark jedi and sith are in the same boat no? cause they had to learn on their own? or were there still dark jedi and other jedi around that vader and palpatine missed?
or was palpatine the most powerful force user out there even more so then vader? cause it looks like he whips yoda's butt in ROTS.

[MasterKiller]

what is YuzzongVong invasion? so wait they destroyed the emperor and the sith, so what do they want for the jedi, to get rebuilt? but half of them probably all suck big ass cause they dont have full training. they are jsut guys running aorund dodgeing lasers with their light sabers and choking people and pushing things or pulling them closer and using the jedi mind trick. they arent even half as powerful as the jedi of old. man i rather be a jedi knight of old then the new para military ones. so what are some good comic reads out there? anything in graphic novel form? The Yuzzong Vong are an invading army from another galaxy who do not believe in the Force. They also do not "register" in the Force; meaning you cannot sense them or affect them with the Force.


so sith come back, dark jedi are numerous, and luke is still a padwan. Luke eventually becomes a Jedi Master. It just takes him a little longer to get there because he has to learn everything from scratch.


but the dark jedi and sith are in the same boat no? cause they had to learn on their own? or were there still dark jedi and other jedi around that vader and palpatine missed? The galaxy is massive, and Force-sensitives are tucked away in remote parts. Palaptine orders most Force-sensitives killed, but he cannot possibly test everyone on every backwater planet. There are pockets of Force users all over the place, although they don't necessarily call it the same thing.


or was palpatine the most powerful force user out there even more so then vader? cause it looks like he whips yoda's butt in ROTS. Vader is stronger than Palpatine, but Palpatine is keeping him alive with the Force. That's why Vader must obey Palpatine. Plus, Palps tortures Vader from time to time when he dissapoints Palps, so Vader is afraid of Palaptine, to the point of trembling in his presence.

[Judge Pen]

Vader is stronger than Palpatine, but Palpatine is keeping him alive with the Force. That's why Vader must obey Palpatine. Plus, Palps tortures Vader from time to time when he dissapoints Palps, so Vader is afraid of Palaptine, to the point of trembling in his presence.

Why can't Vader teach himslef to keep himself alive? He obviously wanted to use Luke to help him kill Palps in ESB.

[MasterKiller]

Why can't Vader teach himslef to keep himself alive? He obviously wanted to use Luke to help him kill Palps in ESB.
He does, to some extent. That's why he meditates in in that sealed chamber on the Executor (from ESB).

But he's just too damaged. That's why he still needs the suit even with Sidious' help. Being the arrogant person he is, Vader thinks he can keep himself alive and that's why he makes the play for Luke. But the reality is once the Emperor dies, Vader is doomed.

[Judge Pen]

He does, to some extent. That's why he meditates in in that sealed chamber on the Executor (from ESB).

But he's just too damaged. That's why he still needs the suit even with Sidious' help. Being the arrogant person he is, Vader thinks he can keep himself alive and that's why he makes the play for Luke. But the reality is once the Emperor dies, Vader is doomed.

Did something happen to Vader between ESB and ROTJ? His attitude about turning Luke to the Dark Side and toward Palps seems to have changed dramatically.

[MasterKiller]

Did something happen to Vader between ESB and ROTJ? His attitude about turning Luke to the Dark Side and toward Palps seems to have changed dramatically.
YES!

Not too many people pick up on it, but Vader gets REASSIGNED from the Imperial Fleet to the new DeathStar.

In ESB, he is obsessed with finding Luke (says so in the 'crawl') because he knows Luke is his son. However, Vader never tells the Emperor he knows. That's why you have the dialogue in ESB:

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy -- Luke Skywalker.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not
become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes. Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.

In the DVD's the dialogue is even longer and expands on the idea that Vader is hiding information from Sidious.

After the Bespin fight, the Emperor senses Vader's weakness for Luke and pulls him off the hunt.

[Judge Pen]

Vader also has this "whipped dog" posture in ROTJ that he didn't have in the other two. Plus, he knows the "Rule of Two" He knows that Luke must kill him to satisfy the Emperor. That's why I thought that Vader wanted to turn Luke instead of turning him over--self-preservation. In ROTJ, he seems resigned that he must die by Luke until Luke decides to not kill him.

[MasterKiller]

In the novel, Sidious lays into Vader for failing to capture Luke. Like I said, the Emperor results to physical punishment, which gets pretty severe. Maul was trained the same way.

[Shaolinlueb]

so vaders force power gets extremely low after the whole fallin volcano thing? so if he never did he could have probably taken the emperor out earlier? but the emperor is stronger then yoda? so how powerful is luke in the force? not as strong as vader correct? maybe the weaker vader. or is vader still powerful but uses most his stuff to keep himself alive? and the reason they could defeat the emperor because sideous was using his power to keep vader alive too?

i just ordered a ton of EU graphic novels.

Star Wars: Heir to the Empire (Thrawn Trilogy #1)
Star Wars: Dark Force Rising (Thrawn Trilogy #2)
Star Wars: The Last Command (Thrawn Trilogy #3)
Star Wars: Jedi vs. Sith
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: The Sith War
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: Knights of the Old
Star Wars: Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith
Star Wars: Dark Empire
Star Wars: Dark Empire 2

[MasterKiller]

so vaders force power gets extremely low after the whole fallin volcano thing? so if he never did he could have probably taken the emperor out earlier? but the emperor is stronger then yoda? so how powerful is luke in the force? not as strong as vader correct? maybe the weaker vader. or is vader still powerful but uses most his stuff to keep himself alive? and the reason they could defeat the emperor because sideous was using his power to keep vader alive too? No. Vader just keeps getting more and more powerful, but his body is broken. So, while he has the Force, sometimes he just can't perform. Had he not been mutilated in the fight with Obi-Wan, he probably would have been even more powerful, But, as it is, he's still an @ss-kicking machine and probably the most powerful Force-Sensitive ever.

Vader obeys Sidious because A) Sidious is like a father-figure to him, B) Sidious keeps him alive via the Force, and C) Sidious tortures him when he fails. I mean, an elephant can easily stomp it's trainer, but it obeys the trainer because it has been conditioned to obey. Sidious has been working on Anakin for a loooooong time.

Sidious is not stronger than Yoda in his prime. The Jedi have lost their connection to the Force because of their reliance on technology and their arrogance. This was glossed over in EP II, but while resurface in EP III. Had this not occurred, Sidious never would have set the plan in motion. The Jedi were simply too powerful before. Remember Nute Gunray's fear at the beginning of TPM when he find out two Jedi are onboard? Yet, in ATOC, they get picked off right and left...

[Shaolinlueb]

No. Vader just keeps getting more and more powerful, but his body is broken. So, while he has the Force, sometimes he just can't perform. Had he not been mutilated in the fight with Obi-Wan, he probably would have been even more powerful, But, as it is, he's still an @ss-kicking machine and probably the most powerful Force-Sensitive ever.

Vader obeys Sidious because A) Sidious is like a father-figure to him, B) Sidious keeps him alive via the Force, and C) Sidious tortures him when he fails. I mean, an elephant can easily stomp it's trainer, but it obeys the trainer because it has been conditioned to obey. Sidious has been working on Anakin for a loooooong time.

Sidious is not stronger than Yoda in his prime. The Jedi have lost their connection to the Force because of their reliance on technology and their arrogance. This was glossed over in EP II, but while resurface in EP III. Had this not occurred, Sidious never would have set the plan in motion. The Jedi were simply too powerful before. Remember Nute Gunray's fear at the beginning of TPM when he find out two Jedi are onboard? Yet, in ATOC, they get picked off right and left...


ok. yoda mentionede how they let the force get clouded. so palpatine jsut waited for his time to strike. until the jedi weakened.

[MasterKiller]

ok. yoda mentionede how they let the force get clouded. so palpatine jsut waited for his time to strike. until the jedi weakened.

Correct-a-mundo.

[Shaolinlueb]

No. Vader just keeps getting more and more powerful, but his body is broken. So, while he has the Force, sometimes he just can't perform. Had he not been mutilated in the fight with Obi-Wan, he probably would have been even more powerful, But, as it is, he's still an @ss-kicking machine and probably the most powerful Force-Sensitive ever.

Vader obeys Sidious because A) Sidious is like a father-figure to him, B) Sidious keeps him alive via the Force, and C) Sidious tortures him when he fails. I mean, an elephant can easily stomp it's trainer, but it obeys the trainer because it has been conditioned to obey. Sidious has been working on Anakin for a loooooong time.

Sidious is not stronger than Yoda in his prime. The Jedi have lost their connection to the Force because of their reliance on technology and their arrogance. This was glossed over in EP II, but while resurface in EP III. Had this not occurred, Sidious never would have set the plan in motion. The Jedi were simply too powerful before. Remember Nute Gunray's fear at the beginning of TPM when he find out two Jedi are onboard? Yet, in ATOC, they get picked off right and left...


ok. yoda mentioned how they let the force get clouded. so palpatine jsut waited for his time to strike. until the jedi weakened.

[red5angel]

Vader is stronger than Palpatine, but Palpatine is keeping him alive with the Force. That's why Vader must obey Palpatine. Plus, Palps tortures Vader from time to time when he dissapoints Palps, so Vader is afraid of Palaptine, to the point of trembling in his presence.

I assume you must be getting this out of the novelization?



i just ordered a ton of EU graphic novels.


crap, I would have warned you away from the Thrawn Trilogy. They're still based on Zahn's crappy ass novels.


ok. yoda mentionede how they let the force get clouded. so palpatine jsut waited for his time to strike. until the jedi weakened.

MK, where are you getting your info on the reason why the Jedi are losing touch with the force? I know they hint at a dependance on it but Yoda says pretty clearly that the dark side is clouding the force and making the Jedi weak.

[MasterKiller]

I assume you must be getting this out of the novelization? In the Empire Strikes Back novelization, Vader trembles as he bows down before the Emperor's hologram transmission. I think it also mentions the physical torture as well, but it's been a while since I looked at it.

I haven't looked at the ROTS novel.


MK, where are you getting your info on the reason why the Jedi are losing touch with the force? I know they hint at a dependance on it but Yoda says pretty clearly that the dark side is clouding the force and making the Jedi weak. In AOTC, Mace says "We must inform the Senate that our ability to use the Force has diminished."

The reason they have lost their connection is hinted at all over the place.

Yoda admonishes Qui-Gon for his arrogance.

Yoda admonishes Obi-Wan for his arrogance.

Mace admonishes Anakin for his arrogance.

Dexter Jexter admonishes Obi-Wan for relying on machines to decipher the markings on the Kamino Darts that Jango uses. "Even a Jedi should know the difference between knowledge and wisdom."

Jocasta Nu, the Jedi librarian, says "If something is not in our archives, it does not exist." Another example of Jedi arrogance.

in ROTS, Qui-Gon's ghost comes back from the dead and admonishes Yoda for the Jedi Order's arrogance.

The Dark side is rising because the Jedi have stumbled from their path.

Just an educated guess. ;)

[Shaolinlueb]

so MK
when luke completes his training, is he ever as powerful as the jedimasters of old?

[red5angel]

so MK
when luke completes his training, is he ever as powerful as the jedimasters of old?

by the time he's fighting the Yuzhang Vong he's pretty powerful, but I Can't remember reading anything that led me to believe he was as powerful as say Yoda, Vader or Palpie.

[MasterKiller]

To borrow a line from The Matrix...Luke's got the gift, but he ain't the one.

Like Red5 says, he's powerful, but probably doesn't hold a candle to any of the big Prequel players like Mace, Yoda, or Sidious.

[Judge Pen]

To borrow a line from The Matrix...Luke's got the gift, but he ain't the one.

Like Red5 says, he's powerful, but probably doesn't hold a candle to any of the big Prequel players like Mace, Yoda, or Sidious.

What about Obi-Wan or Qui-gon? Is he comparable in power to them (when he finished his training)?

[red5angel]

I think the trick is that Luke was the one to bring balance to the Force by basically hitting the reset button, but he's too old to start the training....;)



The Dark side is rising because the Jedi have stumbled from their path.

I guess I don't see all of that stuff as a commentary on the Jedi reliance for technology so much as a commentary on their hubris. Jocasta Nu assumes that the Jedi archives are right not because they are technological archives but because they are Jedi Archives.
I can't currently recall the exact conversation with Dexter, but the whole reason Obi Wan is there is because he can't rely on the droids. Dexter is pointing out that the Jedi can't know everything, even if they do have the archives and droids.
Include all the "admonishing for arrogance" and it seems to me its not the technology but the arrogance and hubris of the Jedi Order that is part of the problem, and probably what the Dark Side is feeding on to cloud their vision.

[MasterKiller]

I think the trick is that Luke was the one to bring balance to the Force by basically hitting the reset button, but he's too old to start the training....;) No, Vader is the Chosen One. He fulfills the prophecy when he kills Sidious in EP VI.


I guess I don't see all of that stuff as a commentary on the Jedi reliance for technology so much as a commentary on their hubris. Jocasta Nu assumes that the Jedi archives are right not because they are technological archives but because they are Jedi Archives.
I can't currently recall the exact conversation with Dexter, but the whole reason Obi Wan is there is because he can't rely on the droids. Dexter is pointing out that the Jedi can't know everything, even if they do have the archives and droids.
Include all the "admonishing for arrogance" and it seems to me its not the technology but the arrogance and hubris of the Jedi Order that is part of the problem, and probably what the Dark Side is feeding on to cloud their vision. That's basically what I meant. I kind of see the technological reliance as part of their hubris, and I think Dexter's quote hilites the issue.

DEXTER JETTSTER: This baby belongs to them cloners. What
you got here is a Kamino saberdart.

OBI-WAN: Kamino saberdart? ...I wonder why it didn't show
up in our analysis archive.

DEXTER JETTSTER: It's these funny little cuts on the side
give it away... Those analysis droids you've got over there
only focus on symbols, you know. I should think you Jedi
would have more respect for the difference between
knowledge and wisdom.

OBI-WAN: Well, Dex, if droids could think, we wouldn't be
here, would we? (laughing) Kamino... doesn't sound
familiar. Is it part of the Republic?


What he's saying is that Obi-Wan should know better than to rely on machines, not that the Jedi should expect some things are beyond their archives.

This whole series plays out as a Nature vs Technology parable. The huge, mechanized Empire is defeated, after all, by a bunch of Ewoks with nothing more than sticks and stones. The paradigm between the Sith extending life for immorality and the Jedi merging with the Force for immortality also fits into this model.

[Shaolinlueb]

interesting

i jsut got done reading the shadows of the empire graphic novel. it was okay. the video game and toys make a big deal out of this dash rendar character and prince xizor wasnt made to be all that powerful or important. but in the comic they arent that really big of a role. it seems to be two stories. one with xizor wanting to kill luke and the one with bobba fett.

i was in barnes and nobles and i took a look though the star wars return of the jedi infinities. the emperor doesnt die at the end and vadar wins and helps his son find teh emperor to restore power. wierd, did they continue those books?

so what your saying with luke is. hes vadars son, he will never be as powerful as vader. even to the old jedi he wont be poiwerful, cause obi wan looks pretty **** powerful in attack of the clones. so luke turned jedi into more paramilitary type people guards of the empire? so are there books or comic of stuff that happens long after return of the jedi. where luke is dead and there have been full trained kids and new jedi masters? how long does darth vader stick around using the force with obiwan and yoda?

[MasterKiller]

interesting

i jsut got done reading the shadows of the empire graphic novel. it was okay. the video game and toys make a big deal out of this dash rendar character and prince xizor wasnt made to be all that powerful or important. but in the comic they arent that really big of a role. it seems to be two stories. one with xizor wanting to kill luke and the one with bobba fett. Xizor is the head of the Black Sun, a powerful criminal syndicate that pops up every now and then. Vader eventually kills him by ramming his star destroyer The Executor into Xizor's floating city thing because Xizor almost convinces Palpatine that he should take over Vader's role as the Emperor's right-hand man. Xizor also has a thing for Princess Leia. All that stuff takes place bewteen ESB and ROTJ.


i was in barnes and nobles and i took a look though the star wars return of the jedi infinities. the emperor doesnt die at the end and vadar wins and helps his son find teh emperor to restore power. wierd, did they continue those books? I don't think it continues that story line, but there are a lot of infinity versions. I have one where Darth Vader fights Darth Maul.

They are basically "what-ifs".


so what your saying with luke is. hes vadars son, he will never be as powerful as vader. even to the old jedi he wont be poiwerful, cause obi wan looks pretty **** powerful in attack of the clones. so luke turned jedi into more paramilitary type people guards of the empire? so are there books or comic of stuff that happens long after return of the jedi. where luke is dead and there have been full trained kids and new jedi masters? how long does darth vader stick around using the force with obiwan and yoda? Right. I don't know if they have stuff after Luke dies. I've never seen anything that goes that far out. In the new books and stuff, Luke is about 45 and is more of a background character at times. Han and Leia have twins, Jacen and Jaina, and a younger son named Anakin; and Luke has a son with Mara Jade named Ben. So, a lot of the stories revolve around them.

All this stuff takes place in the New Jedi Order series.

[Shaolinlueb]

so the jedi basically becomes like an elite gaurd for the new republic. no more religious stuff? and it gets restored somewhat to its previous power?

[red5angel]

The problem is that Luke doesn't have the benefit of growing up in the Jedi order. I've never seen it mentioned exactly what sort of potential he has, only that he obviously doesn't display the capabilities of the Jedi even in EPI and EPII when their powere's have supposedly wained some.
Whether he has the same or more potential then Obi Wan or his father, or even Yoda, the simple fact is, Luke never got the benefit of growing up being raised by Jedi in the Jedi way. Look at the facts, Obi Wan dies just a day or two after meeting Luke Skywalker. Between that time and the moment he starts training with Yoda, he's getting advice from a Force Ghost on how to train. He just doesn't have the resources to focus his training like the Jedi of old did, and it would probably take several generations for New Jedi to start working their way up to the abilities of the Jedi in the first couple of episodes.

As for what the Jedi are now, like MK said more like a para military group then anything else. I haven't bothered reading the Young Jedi (The only thing worse then some of the writing in the books owuld be reading about teenagers in those same books) And read a few books in the New Jedi Order during the Vong invasion. They really don't seem to have that mystical, sort of monkish feel that the old Jedi had. Lukes sort of cobbled together an order from the info he's gleened in his journeys and form Ben and Yoda.


By the way, Didn't luke end up using one of Xixors capital ships as a floating Jedi Temple?

[Judge Pen]

I don't think it continues that story line, but there are a lot of infinity versions. I have one where Darth Vader fights Darth Maul.


So what was the outcome? I assume that Vader kicked arse, but they had to make it a cool fight because of Maul's popularity.

Also, what prequel jedi is comparable to Luke at full power? Is he as strong as Obi Wan or Qui Gon or more like Shaak Ti etc?

[MasterKiller]

Look at the facts, Obi Wan dies just a day or two after meeting Luke Skywalker. Between that time and the moment he starts training with Yoda, he's getting advice from a Force Ghost on how to train. The movie is a little deceptive here. They spend about 6 weeks going from Tattooine to Alderaan.


So what was the outcome. I assume that Vader kicked arse, but they had to make it a cool fight because of Maul's popularity. Vader wins.

http://www.darkhorse.com/profile/profile.php?sku=00-452


Also, what prequel jedi is comparable to Luke at full power? Is he as strong as Obi Wan or Qui Gon or more like Shaak Ti etc? At his best, he's probably be comparable to Ki-Adi-Mundi (the guy with the goatee and pointy head) Shaak Ti, or Agen Kolar (the black guy with Darth Maul horns). Luke might have made it on the council because of his genes, but he wouldn't be running the show.

[Judge Pen]

The movie is a little deceptive here. They spend about 6 weeks going from Tattooine to Alderaan.

??? Does it take that long with hyperspace? Wow, how would the average star wars fan (i.e. those they just like the movies) know this?

[MasterKiller]

??? Does it take that long with hyperspace? Wow, how would the average star wars fan (i.e. those they just like the movies) know this?
The average fan wouldn't because it doesn't really affect the story. It's only something continuity nerds like me obsess about.

Luke spends close to 3 months on Dagobah the first time, but the movie makes it seem like a few days.

[Judge Pen]

The average fan wouldn't because it doesn't really affect the story. It's only something continuity nerds like me obsess about.

Luke spends close to 3 months on Dagobah the first time, but the movie makes it seem like a few days.

Well his progress seems like 3 months, but the whole time he is there, Han et. al. is running from Vader so that makes it seem a lot shorter.

[MasterKiller]

OK, this is where we get a little tech-nerdy, but here are some rough guidelines you can use:

Within a sector: A few hours to a few days
Within a region: A few hours to a few days
Nearby region: Several days to weeks
Across the galaxy: Several weeks to several months

The problem is there are different speeds of Hyperdrives (1x, 2x 3x, 4x, 5x). The Millenium Falcon has a modified and enhanced drive that goes 5x, which pretty much puts it on par with the massive Corellian ships the Empire uses (this is impressive because the Falcon is small).

Now, look how far Alderann (in the Core Worlds sector) is from Tattooine (in the Outer Rim).

http://www.nav-computer.com/images/galaxymap.jpg

Also note the close proximity of Geonosis and Tattooine, which is why Anakin and Padme were able to get to Obi-Wan so quickly in AOTC.

[Judge Pen]

Ok, that is a little geeky, but neat to see the systems and how they are related to one another. I havent' found all the famous ones like Endor, Dantooine, Mufastar, and Alderaan (if it's still on the map).

[MasterKiller]

Endor is on the far left of the map, near the bottom (Moddell Sector)

Alderann is in the Core Worlds circle next to the Kuat Sector.


Dantootine is on top of the map, in the Riabollo Sector.

Mustafar isn't on the map. It's new. ;)

[red5angel]

The movie is a little deceptive here. They spend about 6 weeks going from Tattooine to Alderaan.


I was going to mention that but decided not to bother. Regardless my original point was just that Luke had minimal training as a Jedi and so never realized his full potential.


There are all sorts of other issues when you hyperspace that makes the trip longer or shorter. Well travelled trips are generaly faster because they've been mapped out more accurately. By mapped out I mean that most of the intervening gravity wells and large astral bodies that cause them have been recorded for the most part and so it's easy to plot your course through space.
Generally speaking a "hyperjump" can actually be done in several legs since they are straight shots. You point your ship in the right direction, get it up to speed and jump to hyperspace. In hyperspace you're technically not increasing your velocity but because of the properties of the alternate dimension, you cover more distance, so relative speed changes.

[Shaolinlueb]

thats a cool map and provides some insight on how big the empire is. now these are only the major planets right?

[red5angel]

The Republic, and the Empire span about 3/4 of the galaxy. It's not the entire galaxy but you gott remember they've had hyperspace capabilities for thousands of years.

[PHILBERT]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2005-04-27

[MasterKiller]

http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=http://www.rebelscum.com/gallery/c3/TattooTrack/C3TatJohn25.jpg

[PHILBERT]

STAR WARS MUSIC VIDEO

http://pdl.stream.aol.com/aol/us/moviefone/movies/2004/lucasfilm/hyperspace/epiii_music_video_480_dl.mov

Frigging sweet. Best part is when Obi-Wan leaps out of the fighter after he crashes it and slashes the battle droids as soon as he lands.

[Shaolinlueb]

i really cant wait for this movie. but im sure it will be a piece of crap. :(

[MasterKiller]

Oh yeah, well read Kevin Smith's review of the movie. He hated TPM.

http://viewaskew.com/news/sith/

[Judge Pen]

Oh yeah, well read Kevin Smith's review of the movie. He hated TPM.

http://viewaskew.com/news/sith/

Couldn't find his TPM review archived there. Any links?

[MasterKiller]

I doubt if he has one on his site. That was 6 years ago.

He was very vocal when TPM came out, though.

In his short-lived "Clerks" cartoon, there is a skit where Jay and Silent Bob put Lucas on trial because they want their $8 back.

He was quoted in Premeire Magazine as saying " I saw it once. I'll never watch it again."

When The Phatom Edit surfaced in 2000, a lot of people suspected it was actually him that made the re-cut because of how vocal he was at the time.

[Judge Pen]

I did some more digging. According to his original review (http://viewaskew.com/press/menace.html) he ranked it right behind The Empire Strikes Back. :eek:

He obviously had second thoughts.

[red5angel]

wtf is the phantom edit?

[red5angel]

and did someone on this forum post a link to a commercial that had Darth Vader before some board of directors? I can't find the link anywhere.

[Judge Pen]

wtf is the phantom edit?

Someone circulated an edited version of TPM which cut out all the bad parts including most of Jar Jar etc. It was a very short film (mainly of lightsabers and pod races).

[MasterKiller]

wtf is the phantom edit?

Holy smokes, you serious? It was a re-cut of TPM that took out all of goofy Jar-Jar antics and Anakin's stupid yipeeeee's and whatnot. It was a tighter, cleaner version of the film done by an anonymous editor that leaked out on the internet. All serious Star Wars nerds know about this.

And if you really want to get serious, Google "magnoliafan"+"Star Wars."

His recuts of EP I and EP II are totally sweet.

One of them is called "The Phantom Re-edit 1.2" and one is called "Balance of the Force."

Most of the alien voices are replaced with subtitles. Their voices are gibberish that was generated by playing their dialogue backwards. Jar-Jar's new subtitles make him into more of a hillbilly, but he's less annoying.

The plot is changed so that The Trade Federation is protesting the passage of Republic Legislation (passed by a Palpatine, then senator from Naboo) that bans the use of slavery in the core worlds. Tthe Trade Federation is losing money, so they embargo Naboo.

He also cut out all refereces to midi-chlorians.