Hasn't Kung Fu Always Been About Money?

[MonkeySlap Too]

I was reading an interview with a BaJi teacher in Ohio - he discussed how in China, martial arts were for the rich. If you were rich, you could afford the best teachers, spend time training. That even today, the wealthy appreciate the health-giving and self-defense aspects of CMA. But in America it is not as appreciated so much, so you teach who you can.

Comments?

I know a great many people whine about the cost of lessons or thier teacher trying to make money... what is wrong with a teacher making a living?

[Waidan]

I'm sure that's true, at least to some degree. But of course "back in the day" you could make a good living as a skilled MA, so it was a valuable trade to learn. Currently, kungfu-centric job opportunites are slim pickings.

[Royal Dragon]

Nothing is wrong with it. Heck, even Mc Dojo teachers have alot to offer thier clients. It's when you get guys claiming to be the best of the best, charging outraguous rates, and delivering substandard Chung Moo Quan level martial arts that you have problems.

Many feel in the USA, you have to offer total Mcdojo material to even keep students, so the hard core guys look down on you as a a sell out. They never stop to think that the 70 yearold in your Taiji class has had tremendous beniffits from your teaching after his heart attack. They never think about the 11 year old ADD kid that got off ridelin because you gave him a good dose of structured exercise in a format he really enjoys. Or the single mom who has refound her energy because you taught her a good holding set. Or the 17 year old girl who fought off an agressive boyfreind because you taught her how to use a few techniques from a form you learned out of a book, or the 10 year old who took on and adult that jumped her 21 year old brother, and gave him the fighting chance he needed to save both their asses.

All the above are real case story's of some of my students when I taught, the last one bruised the guys ribs and knocked the wind out of him with a jumpside kick and everything (Sounds like she hit him in the floating rib from behind and to the side). I got the story from her, her Mom, AND her brother who came in to class to thank me for teaching her to do that.

The way I see it, just charge a fair amount,work on having enough students to pay the bills, and make a deacent living. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do this and make darn near six figures if you market right.

[MasterKiller]

The way I see it, just charge a fair amount,work on having enough students to pay the bills, and make a deacent living. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to do this and make darn near six figures if you market right.

So, where's your Porsche parked?

[mickey]

Greetings,

The answer is NO. Chinese martial arts were/are about WAR. China has had its warrior class whose chief responsibility was readiness to protect king and country and to kick assiduities when necessary. The Yang family (of the Yang Spear technique) is an example of this. The guy may have meant the ruling class. Money did not make it in those days; skill and ability did, as evidenced by the Wen Wu examinations.

mickey

[SifuAbel]

And WAR was in the special interests of the ruling class. The ruling class could AFFORD to train and PAY soldiers. Money has always been a factor one way or another. But in later days it was quite true that it took some kind of benefactor to get to choose which schools you went to.

Not everyone was a begging monk teaching along the path. This whole mythology is movieland stuff. because even the begging monk was given all that he required. Shelter, food, firewood, maid service :p :D .

[Merryprankster]

ADD kid that got off ridelin because you gave him a good dose of structured exercise in a format he really enjoys.

Then he didn't have ADD.

[Royal Dragon]

I have had about a dozen students who were on Riddelin that got off of it after spending a few sessions taking classes from me. This also includes D-F grades going to C-B and even A's here and there. All I really did was train those kids harder than the rest of the class. Lots of holding postures and such.

To be honest, from my teaching experiance I don't believe in ADD at all. I think it's just a poor diet and exercise issue. Those kids need physical discaplines that require alot of concentraition and such and they need more raw fruits and veggies than most.

In fact, of the kids I delt with that were on ridelin because of ADD only one didn't improve dramatically because of the training, and it turned out he had some exceptional home life issues with his family.

[MonkeySlap Too]

ADD is a crock of sh!t. If you read the diagnostic guidelines, you could fit it to almost any body. Once again, a drug company has tried to create a catch-all to make money off the unsuspecting. Snake oil kind of stuff.

However, there ARE compulsive disorders that can be treated by ridalin, but there are many other methods that should be tried first.

Most of the kids put on ridalin are at the reccomendation of teachers (when did THEY go to medical school?), and are representative of our countries unwillingness to enforce discipline amongst our young. Lazy teachers + lazy parents = drugged kids.

I beleive RD's story - he gave those kids what they needed. They should not have been on the drug in the first place.

[David Jamieson]

ADD and ADHD are not a crock of sh.it, but there does seem to be a lot of people diagnosed with it who likely shouldn't have been.

Ritalin isn't exactly what I would call a safe drug to be distributing so freely, it has in fact become a large problem for narcos all over because of the all to quick distribution of it by doctors.

Every year, disorders are pinpointed and drugs to wayley the disorder are created and distributed. Every year, wrong diagnosis of various symptoms and diseases are made.

This is because the person at the very bottom of the graduatin class in medical school is still a doctor. Should standards be raised again? Maybe.

Consider that it wasn't so long ago that insane people were thought to be possessed by demons as opposed to having whacked out brain chemistry or severe depression or even environmental poisoning, etc etc.

[Merryprankster]

They should not have been on the drug in the first place.

Which is my point. They never had ADD. Exercise and discipline doesn't help an ADD child at all.

ADD is not a crock of ****, but it IS completely overdiagnosed and adderall and ritalin and simlar drugs overperscribed.

I know because I was/am ADHD, back before it became popular to label every bored kid with the disorder. You never really outgrow it, but you learn coping mechanisms...and it's got its upsides too...

[Shaolinlueb]

remember the southpark where everyone had add and the guys solution was to beat the crap out of them and they listened. :o lol i love that episode.

[red5angel]

I was reading an interview with a BaJi teacher in Ohio - he discussed how in China, martial arts were for the rich. If you were rich, you could afford the best teachers, spend time training. That even today, the wealthy appreciate the health-giving and self-defense aspects of CMA. But in America it is not as appreciated so much, so you teach who you can.

Comments?

I know a great many people whine about the cost of lessons or thier teacher trying to make money... what is wrong with a teacher making a living?

Monkeyslap, apparently you haven't been keeping up on your kungfu movies. The poor could learn kungfu by showing up at the doorstep of a famous master, pestering him non stop for a few days and showing some stickwithitude. either that or cleaning up after him for months on end, or even years!

[mickey]

Since we have gone off topic, I will indulge a little,

If you know someone with ADD and ADHD, remove sugar from their diet. All forms of it. Take away the hidden sugars as well-- cereals, sodas etc. Replace it with a vegetable rich diet (I'm not excluding meat though that would not be a bad idea, I'm saying that it should be vegetable RICH). Any kind of sugar should come from fruits. You should start seeing a change within 2-4 weeks. I have also heard that wheat should be eliminated as well.

mickey

[Shaolinlueb]

Since we have gone off topic, I will indulge a little,

If you know someone with ADD and ADHD, remove sugar from their diet. All forms of it. Take away the hidden sugars as well-- cereals, sodas etc. Replace it with a vegetable rich diet (I'm not excluding meat, I'm saying that it should be vegetable RICH). Any kind of sugar should come from fruits. You should start seeing a change within 2-4 weeks. I have also heard that wheat should be eliminated as well.

mickey


what about cornbread master? can we have dat?

[lkfmdc]

A proper education is an essential part of being a functional human being. Sadly, so many are ignorant. Note that ignorant is NOT stupid, it is lack of knowledge, ie ignorant of the facts...

People blather on about 'warrior classes" when talking about China. They confuse Japanese Bushi (ie samurai class) with the realities of China. Chinese proverb says a soldier is not made of a good man. Chinese Confucian society looked down upon those who engaged in physical labor, and upon the martial arts class. Military officers were restricted from advancing to levels of political importance. Most military men were not officers, they were basicly a slave class and terribly mistreated. Thus, the many uprisings and rebellions in which the military played important roles...

TCMA was chiefly the realm of those dis-affected from society at large. The poor, those in marginalized professions, criminals, military, "hit men".... To argue otherwise not only defies the historical record, it defies common sense.

Advancement in Chinese society was based upon exam system. Exam system required intense study under tutors only the rich could afford. Only the rich could afford the time to memorize everything that Conficius ever said. Other than that, illiteracy among most Chinese prevented advancement in the exam system...

Most Chinese even TODAY think that if you do martial arts, most likely you are affiliated with some gang or low life activity. Face it, even Lion Dancing is basicly a "shake down"....

With the fall of the Qing Dynasty in 1911, the exam system fell. A lot of rich and influencial people had resources and time on their hands. Many turned to martial art as a "cool hobby". But being priveledged and spoiled, they didn't want to work and wanted the "secret" short cut....

Fighters who were poor and wanted to be rich were willing to teach total crap to rich people in exchange for being accepted in polite society and for substantial payments. They were also willing to "dumb it down" to the LOWEST level. Or they would drag their unsuspecting rich client along with dumb ideas about "cultivating chi to fight". This is thus the very essense of so much of the BS and poppy cluck in the arts....

[mickey]

Now back on topic,

SifuAbel,

The ruling class WERE the warriors. It wasn't about money in the beginning. Please reread the title of this thread. The person used the word "ALWAYS."


Respectfully,

mickey

[lkfmdc]

read the article AGAIN......

http://chinwan.com.ar/ross1.htm

[mickey]

Corn Bread Master?

That flew me back to "Roots" when Kunta Kinte said "grits dummy."

No Corn Bread Master.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

caffeine is another baddy hidden in all sorts of stuff you would never think it was.

like chocolate bars! who loves chocolate bars more than every kid on the planet?

and how many kids aren't bored or just plain lackadaisical.
Unfortunately the little einsteins and beethovens are 1 in a million even though we all want our kid to be that.

puberty causes huge chemistry changes in kids and funny enough, this is the period when so many of them get "diagnosed" with add or adhd. This can be a real problem when you have murky communication between one type of medicine and another.

Frankly, I am of the school that GP's should not be prescribing medicines for psychological disorders perceived or real. And a second or third opinion should always be sought after in these cases. A little trouble in your life now, removes a lot of trouble in your life later.

[lkfmdc]

The ruling class WERE the warriors.



Like I said, Americans have an astounding level of ignorance of the facts of Chinese society and history.....

[David Jamieson]

Man it looks like this thread has ADD!! :eek:

It's all over the place!

Focus!

wait a minute...it was about money and my only contributions were about attention deficit disorder.

hmmmm, back to the drawing board...or better yet! On topic, I once read an article about how there was a period in the 50's 60's and 70's in HK when Martial arts were again at a zenith in popularity and that only people of means could afford quality instruction in them.

But nowadays, it is cycling back and if you ar determined and a diligent student, you can receive lessons for basically what amounts to free! Pay your share of the rent and electricty and water on the gwoon and show up on time and be there to learn. This is what is seeming to be the requirement.

Having said that, there are some extremely successful teachers out there who have large student bodies. They become rich. Some teachers charge what the student can afford. I've seen this before where the wealthy pay more and the poor can generally pay with chores.

It ebbs and flows with the demand for the instruction I guess and it also depends mostly on the world view of the teacher who is dolling out the instruction.

[Merryprankster]

Since we have gone off topic, I will indulge a little,

If you know someone with ADD and ADHD, remove sugar from their diet. All forms of it. Take away the hidden sugars as well-- cereals, sodas etc. Replace it with a vegetable rich diet (I'm not excluding meat though that would not be a bad idea, I'm saying that it should be vegetable RICH). Any kind of sugar should come from fruits. You should start seeing a change within 2-4 weeks. I have also heard that wheat should be eliminated as well.

mickey

You're not talking about a person with add/adhd. It's that simple.

[mickey]

lkfmdc,

Speaking of ADD, ADHD, this thread is starting to swerve again.

MonkeySlap Too was referring to an interview with a baji master. Is it safe to asume by the way you have submitted your article, that you are that baji master-- from Ohio???? If so, pleeeeese forgive me.:)

Your article supports my stand when it comes to the use of martial arts in China's growth and development. And yes, there are many facets to the martial arts.

Again, just for you, lkfmdc, the thread used the word "ALWAYS." Your article, in all its breadth, refutes that early on.

Why are you picking on me? You got kicked out of the Supremes again?

mickey

[Merryprankster]

Like I said, Americans have an astounding level of ignorance of the facts of Chinese society and history.....

That's not true! I've seen TONS of Kung Fu movies!

Ancient China was littered with wires and wire work operators!

[red5angel]

don't forget lots of really flimsy/floppy but really shiny blades too!

[WanderingMonk]

Like I said, Americans have an astounding level of ignorance of the facts of Chinese society and history.....
coach Ross,

I think your version of history is not exactly accurate.

In Qin, Han, Tang (and the in-between dynasties), the generals and military had much more power within the government than the scholar class. Many of the province in later Tang were organized by military governorship (if I recall it right).
In Han, successful generals becomes "萬戶候" (dukes?) and collect taxes. the exam system was really institutionalized in the Tang dynasty, this is when the scholar class power began to grow.


It was Song dynasty in which the generals relinquished their power and became subordinate to the scholar class.

In the Qing dynasty, the "warrior class" certain made a resurgence. but whether or not the "conquerer" manchu should be consider as chinese (when they first entered china) is debatable as china at the time was defined by the map of Ming.

the banner man and the banner system. these were machu warriors who conquered china and they enjoyed significant advantage until founding of the chinese republic.

so, it really depends on what era you are looking at.

also, the rulers only care about what confucius had to say when those statements can be interpret favorably toward the emperor. they try to fuge the rest when it doesn't serve their purposes.

[lkfmdc]

I feel secure in the assertions I make in my article because they are by far the major trend in Chinese history. For relevance, we are talking about trends inhabiting the martial arts we do today. Considering this, the Qing Dynasty structure itself dates back to 1644. Is 400 years not long enough? Well, the structure at hand dates back to Ming and Yuan as well.....

[mickey]

lkfmdc,

The question of the thread was whether kung fu was ALWAYS about the money. The answer still is no.



How is secure doing by the way?:)


I hope you get back with the Supremes real soon. Yor are so stressed out, you got people thinking you are a baji man from ohio. You're losing it, kid. Stay strong, hold on.


mickey

[lkfmdc]

mickey, I'm taking a guess that you were "educated" in a public school here in the US... that would explain you total lack of reading comprehension... I feel for you, really I do.... :rolleyes:

[Shaolinlueb]

bah i want my cornbread.

sifu ross. ever read the three kingdom books? yet they are stories and people claim some historical significance. yet they can be totally made up. a lot of the military leaders were the vassels and heads of the cities they conquered. guan yu, zhang fie, cao cao was a military man and prime minister to the last han emperor. so the higher ranked officers did hold some political sway. the chinese soldiers, like today, are usually lower class with nothing to lose. back then they didnt have sign on bonus's other then do good in battle you might be rewarded with silk and maybe some gold.

about kung fu people being in gangs and such? ha im sure of it. no doubt in my mind. in hong kong the schools had to be regulated by the government and documents sent on each student so it would show they aren't running a school to trian/recruit gangsters. i believe that was also a big thing in taiwan too. recruit the kids from the kung fu school. yet those guys were probably the best fighters and can use all their "traditional" wushu skills. unlike a lot of the masters who didnt fight. well infact we know Chan Tai Shen (sp?) was a gangster who used his kung fu moves everyday.

[mickey]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Very funny. The best you can do is to say, "You're stupid." Chinese masters do that. You must have been told that way too many times to try to palm that one off on me!!! (much laughter)

Very, Very funny. Even if it was unintentional.


Still, how is secure doing?

mickey

[lkfmdc]

like I said, LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION...

I said you were ignorant, not stupid. If you'd like to correct me and insist you are in fact stupid, be my guest...

"how is secure doing"?

No ideas what the F you are talking about... perhaps you're experiences episodes of clinical delussion?

[mickey]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA,

Baji man, you are klilling me!

mickey

[ewallace]

Sorry to go off topic again, but many kids diagnosed with ADD/ADHD also suffer from other disorders such as bipolar disorder or Tourette syndrome. Many times misdiagnosed. My niece and nephew are living proof that sometimes the diagnosis is correct.

Sorry MS2. Back to the thread.

[Fu-Pow]

In my experience every martial arts school has problems if it relies solely on its students for its operating costs.

It's like a conflict of interest to ask someone to pay you money to kick their a$$. Martial arts training is hard. It can be fun but it is also hard work to improve. Long stretches with no improvement punctuated with break throughs and big learning.

But most people don't want to work their bodies hard. They don't want discipline. They want to do what's easy and then have some "master" give them a piece of paper or a belt that supposedly says "I have achieved something."

When your operating costs depend solely on your students then you have to cater to them. What they want. You can't be the a$$ kicker anymore.......which is what you need to be to produce good students.

So in my mind it's a conflict of interest. You need to support your school by other means and be a hard master on your students. The people who don't have a stomach for it will quit.

The people who naturally have tenacity and understand the power of perseverance will stick around and make you proud. In the long run those are the kinds of students that you want, not the ones that pay you your money but treat your school like a fitness/social club.

Just my 3 cents.

[lkfmdc]

we're getting strong indications that mickey is one of these mis-diagnosed kids, he thinks I live in Ohio and do baji...... :rolleyes:

[mickey]

lkfmdc,

I wasn't the one who posted up a paper as if it was the interview MonkeySlap Too was referring to. You did that. I simply caught it.

We all know you are a Lama man. But you are missing your duty right now; there is a baboon in the Bronx Zoo in estrus. You know what to do. Just do your best!!:)

AAAHH HAHAHAHAHAHA


mickey

[lkfmdc]

:confused:

Just like I said, you have a complete lack of any reading comprehension.

Seriously dude, you are ranting and raving and blithering on... in no way did I say the article was what Monkey Slap was talking about. It was in relation to my post above it....

I know, it's the fault of the public school system that you couldn't follow that and then posted your meaningless rants in what you assumed was teh vein of the discussion...

feel free to continue to drool in the corner........... :rolleyes:

[mickey]

lkfmdc,

You did say reread the article again. There was no article referenced in your previous thread to that one. It was not clear at all that you were referring to your previous post.

Please do take my jokes lightly. I have been around too long to want to injure unnecessarily.

Now let me go mop up my drool.

Peace,

mickey

[PangQuan]

"Chinese Confucian society looked down upon those who engaged in physical labor, and upon the martial arts class."

Confucious was noted as a well practiced swordsman.

I just love how individuals take to personal insults when someone does not agree with their point of view. It is very mature. These are the type of people we need representing the martial arts we love.

And as to the topic of this thread. ALWAYS is incorrect. MOST of the time, is correct. This is simply how it is. Except this easily understood fact or live in the ignorance everyone seems to enjoy discussing.

[red5angel]

I just love how individuals take to personal insults when someone does not agree with their point of view. It is very mature. These are the type of people we need representing the martial arts we love.



fukk you you slimy two faced son of a beyotch!!! You know nothing about people getting offended!! :D

[mickey]

PangQuan,

Bright light in the world of darkness. Words of wisdom. A tranquil mind.


mickey

[PangQuan]

LOL @ Red5

[David Jamieson]

conditioning and strength development take way longer than learning to fight.

that's where most of teh focus should be in my opinion and for the most part it is.

also alive training, actual sparring and refining your high percentage techs.

that is, if you're into fighting.

traditional kungfu is a mix of a lot of things. flexibility, strength, conditioning, breathing, endurance, co-ordination, and so on. The fighting is the stuff you learn by doing.

[PangQuan]

cjurakpt

Interesting perspective, and good points. But I bet if we take turns hitting each other in the forehead, side of head, top, or back of head, me with palm and you with fists, I would feel a lot better in the morning. I get your point though. But open hand strikes do most definately have an application. I like to think of the method hard on soft, and soft on hard.

[Yum Cha]

History -
Ross has a pretty consistent view of Chinese class structure and recent history as with what I've been taught, and what I know.

Mind you, "Generals" and officers were not the same class as the warriors. I.e. the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms, even Kwan Gung, the greatest fighter, was not the greatest leader. Leadership was a superior virtue to heroics. These were also "pulp fiction" of the day, meant to entertain the middle classes, losely based upon historical fact, loaded with the exposition of moral virtue and loyalty to the Emperor. Why?

Money -
A fool and his money are soon parted. One of the universal truths of the universe. I can be said that it was always about money, but not that it was only about money. Some arts have long traditions as family arts kept to families, or villages, and played like rugby amongst the locals.

Other arts have a non-commercial imperitive, but that doesn't mean no money changes hands.

And still, some martial arts training, like Royal Dragon so eloquently demonstrated, while being commercial, is very valuable people that would never fit into some of the more extreme models. Its a bell curve, plenty of room for everybody, by definition and nature.

ADHD - ADD
From personal experience: Food intolerance often displays the same symptoms.
Eliminate the sugars, not only... Get the child tested for allergies via the comprehensive scratch tests. And, don't be surprised when things like milk and bread show up. There are people that believe that this epidemic is about chemicals in our environment. All the additives, colours, preservatives they pack into processed foods, about the concentration of environmental toxins into cows milk and flour, and poisoning from household toxins like formaldahyde (in kitchen cabnetry where crockery is stored) and the like.

FYI link: http://members.ozemail.com.au/~sdengate/

We eliminated milk, processed foods and excess sugars from my Daughters diet, and the change was miraculous, and literly over a 3 day period. She eats fresh fruit and veg, meat, starches, whatever. Drinks goats milk and eats wheat bread, and while she still has some difficulties, she doesn't have problems any longer.

[Shaolinlueb]

man the add episode of southpark is tonight 9:30pm est. its nice.

[GeneChing]

Hasn't everything always been about money? You could adopt an economic model of the world as your perspective, and yes - it's all about the long green - martial arts, dance, even knitting.

If there's one thing martial arts has always been about, I'd say it was power. Money and power are closely related and often for the wrong reasons. Some lack power and replace it with money. Money is pretty powerful. The more money you have, the better lessons you can afford, etc. But there's a lot to be said for the affordability of CMA. It's a lot cheaper than many sports like skiing for example. All you pay for is lessons, a uniform and a weapon now and then. The rub is in the lessons. Some teachers make a lot of bank - others not so much. Where martial artists have issues is that martial skill doesn't determine how much you make. There are plenty of very poor, very talented masters. There are plenty of very rich, talentless teachers. That's hard to resolve for the warrior mind. If money is our measure, clearly we are beaten by the businessmen. How bothersome. Fortunately, money isn't the measure for most of us. You don't have to adopt an economic model. It only irritates you with its injustice.

[PangQuan]

would you now? sounds like a fun way to spend an evening - well, whatever it takes to get you through the night (lemme guess - you have trouble finding people to hang out with, dontcha?); so, if I poked you repeatedly in the eye with my forefinger would you call me Daddy?:p

ok, ok, just kidding - actually, I'm not quite sure where in my post you get that I am advocating the relative superiority of the fist to the palm/open hand - actually, I agree with you - I think palms are preferrable, at least for me; but my actual point was that the typical rationale for the "empty fist" in TCC was a crock - that there was no reasonable explanation for it from either a martial or a health perspective...but there was fer sure a "Show me the $$$" one...

as far as the whole conditioning thing - I think I made it pretty clear that in order to become conditioned you have to engage in repetition, which, by inference, occurs over an extended period of time; so, I am in agreement with Kung Lek;

I see your angle more clearly now.

[PangQuan]

Gene is onto something there. Is not one of the reasons each of us practice MA for the physical power it gives us over our bodies and our surroundings, and of course our opponents? Money is a substitute, or an alternative form of power. Of course in the end skill usually can defeat wealth. Unless of course someone hires a bunch of ninja's to cut off your head. Then your pretty much screwed.

[David Jamieson]

the nature of power is absolutely a factor.

but the definition of 'power' is differnet probably in each of our eyes. Not to mention the types of power we could talk about.

power of the self is not the same as power of the people, and that is not the same as holding power over others, or the power of self determination and all other myraid forms of power that we associate.

Rich people got money, so when you're rich you no longer crave for money. Generally speaking, you crave power. This is where it starts heading off in all the directions of what power is. Power of jurisdiction, power of ownership, power of the vestments of office, power over others to havethem carry out your will, and so on.

It is an interesting subject to be sure.

[GeneChing]

Rich people got money, so when you're rich you no longer crave for money. I don't know if I agree with that KL. I think money can be quite addictive, like anything powerful. I think the more you get, the more you might want. If you get a rush with $10K, imagine the high of $100K. More money breeds more greed. That's why I'm glad I'm not rich.

Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, I'm glad I'm not rich - that's my mantra whenever it's time to pay bills...

[rogue]

The only art not touched by money is GJJ.

[SifuAbel]

Gere,

That was daamn straight.

'nuff said. :cool:

[SifuAbel]

The only art not touched by money is GJJ.

LOL!!!!!!!!

[rogue]

Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, I'm glad I'm not rich - that's my mantra whenever it's time to pay bills...
Get a real job hippie! :p


Fortunately, money isn't the measure for most of us. You don't have to adopt an economic model. It only irritates you with its injustice.
Speak for yourself, I like the irritaion that cash makes. :D

Seriously, martial skill has little to do with business savvy. Sometimes you get a mix of both but not often. A good businessman will gear his program to get the most people to sign up and keep them satisfied for as long as possible. He's happy and his customers are happy. Gotta go my new issue of MASuccess just came in.

[David Jamieson]

I guess I'm happy with 'enough'.

I enjoy that my time is valuable enough that I can get paid enough to make my mortgage, feed myself and have some pin money.

I've had, and have quite a comfortable lot in life, I really don't crave more or scheme for it. BUt I'm not saying I'm any kind of a standard or a hallmark in this respect, and I'm not a pushover either, If ya owe me, ya owe me plain and simple and I will seek my fair payment for my services rendered in good faith.

If I am ever filthy rich, i would probably keep doing what I'm doing, just in a bigger way.

GOt no love for the filthy lucre, it's just a tool. I don't crave hammers either. :D

[rogue]

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3fm.htm



World's top 20 wealthiest people Thu Mar 10 2005 19:37:42 ET

Following is a list of the 20 richest individuals and their estimated net worth in billions of dollars, according to an annual ranking by Forbes Magazine.

1. William Gates III US 46.5 (Microsoft)

2. Warren Buffett US 44.0 (investments)

3. Lakshmi Mittal India 25.0 (steel)

4. Carlos Slim Helu Mexico 23.8 (telecom)

5. Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Saudi Arabia 23.7 (investments)

6. Ingvar Kamprad Sweden 23.0 (Ikea)

7. Paul Allen US 21.0 (Microsoft)

8. Karl Albrecht Germany 18.5 (supermarkets)

9. Lawrence Ellison US 18.4 (Oracle)

10 S. Robson Walton US 18.3 (Wal-Mart)

11. Jim Walton US 18.2 (Wal-Mart)

11. John Walton US 18.2 (Wal-Mart)

13. Alice Walton US 18.0 (Wal-Mart)

13. Helen Walton US 18.0 (Wal-Mart)

15. Kenneth Thomson and family Canada 17.9 (pubishing)

16. Liliane Bettencourt France 17.2 (L'Oreal)

17. Bernard Arnault France 17.0 (LVMH)

18. Michael Dell US 16.0 (Dell)

19. Sheldon Adelson US 15.6 (casinos)

20. Theo Albrecht Germany 15.5 (supermarkets)

Hmmm, no mention of Rorion...

[GeneChing]

Get a real job hippie! Dang! Is that the problem? I've been wondering why everyone is driving Hummers but me. Dang.

Ironically, just the other day I visited the house of a grandmaster that was a serious, serious crib. It was a freakin' mansion, complete with an antique collection, secret passages and a private home theater to die for. He made all his bank in martial arts - one of the people who truly capitalized on the franchise wave of the 70's. I was astounded that someone could make that much in this business.

[Fu-Pow]

Dang! Is that the problem? I've been wondering why everyone is driving Hummers but me. Dang.

Ironically, just the other day I visited the house of a grandmaster that was a serious, serious crib. It was a freakin' mansion, complete with an antique collection, secret passages and a private home theater to die for. He made all his bank in martial arts - one of the people who truly capitalized on the franchise wave of the 70's. I was astounded that someone could make that much in this business.


Did his name happen to be SIN THE?

[rogue]

Gene, the "get a real job hippie!" was something my dad would say to me when I was young, (**cough**) younger. Yeah, I was a long hair, living at home, peacenik punk rocker back in the day. :eek:

Did you find out how he cashed in on the 70's martial arts craze?

[mantis108]

Have anyone here seen Kung Fu Hustle by Stephen Chow yet?

If you have seen it and you find there are tears behind the laughters than I congratulate you on your Kung Fu journey for you have come a long way. Pretty much everything about Kung Fu culture is covered in the movie. At the very core it talks about the sad reality of Jiang Hu (the floating world of lakes and river) or more precisely the every changing and unforgiving reality of being one amongst the grass root level. It doesn't matter how powerful and how talented you are; Father Time is going to give you a time's up. Newer, faster and better (technology created illusions) will swallow you up. That's the reality that Kung Fu is really facing.

Watch it and you will see the what Kung Fu has always been about.

Mantis108

[ewallace]

Just a lil tidbit of info...did you know that Warren Buffett still does his own taxes? My little W2 and a couple 1099s are a pain in the butt.

[Ming Yue]

I'll see your couple of 1099s and raise you a Schedule C and a Schedule E.


...I've only met one MA school owner that didn't have another job... Apparently Gene is running with a much better crowd than I am.

[ewallace]

You have to fill out a schedule C as well as a 1040 SE if you do 1099 work. :)

[GeneChing]

The crowd I run with is a bunch of hummer-less hippies apparently. ;)

I have met plenty of people who are full-time professional martial artists. I've been full-time for nearly twenty years now and part time since the mid eighties. Still no hummer. Not that I could afford the gas anyway, especially nowadays. For every one of us that is full time, there are no doubt hundreds of part-timers. It's tough to make a living in the martial arts. There's not a lot of market for it. You have to create your own market. I think that's why so many practitioners make such a big deal out of lineage. You don't have to create as much of a market if you got lineage - you can just rely on your master's market. But that only works for the short term.

This is why the notion of martial arts always being about money is kind of funny to me. Sure, there's a few people who make a lot of money, but most of us don't. And as professional sports go, we're way down in the ghetto. Maybe that's why we complain about money so. We're poor and hungry, by comparison.

That GM wasn't Sin The, BTW. And his 'secret' is pretty well known to any one in the business - use a large franchise base and teach high end private lessons.

[ewallace]

Good teachers are like good ethnic food. You have to find a hole-in-the-wall type joint to get the good stuff.

[SifuAbel]

Would this gradmaster's name start with "W"? :D

[red5angel]

The crowd I run with is a bunch of hummer-less hippies apparently.

That's too bad...I think everyone should get a hummer :D

[PangQuan]

Good teachers are like good ethnic food. You have to find a hole-in-the-wall type joint to get the good stuff.

D@mn straight, you can find it in one of those big fancy places, but then you have to deal with all of the up tight arse snobs. Dives have the best service.

[rogue]

Would this gradmaster's name start with "W"? :D

Was it my old GM, Fred Willari? http://www.villari.com/ :eek:

[SPJ]

In the old time;

You may learn how to fight, if the teacher decided to take you in. You do not pay the money. The teacher paid your living, food and housing.

Job market:

A. Biu Jiu armed escort. You escort the shipments.

B. Body guards: you teach the family of the rich and protect them and their assets.

C. The police and the army: you have to complete the exam and defeat a lot of the people. The best ones go to the palace and then imperial guards, regular army and the police.

D. You are part of a gang in the Jiang Hu or 江湖．

E. You are bandits on the mountains or 山贼.

On and on.

Nowadays, there is this thing called guns.

:(

[Becca]

Then he didn't have ADD.
I have known people who had ADD as well as Bipolarism who were able to ween themselves off the drugs after a few years of good theropy and MA studies... My kid brother is one. My father is another. I have a niece who has managed to drop her dependance on ritlin from 350mg/daily to 200.


Just because most people don't/won't put forth the effort doesn't meen the determined can't. Nor does it meen they didn't have the problem to begin with. :rolleyes:

[Goldenmane]

Seriously dude, you are ranting and raving and blithering on...

That was quite probably the most amusing way I have ever seen someone call someone else an @55hole without using the word itself.

But I always thought it was "blathering".

Maybe I shouldn't be singing this song...

[GeneChing]

....you'll never guess. Never. He's not on the map, really, not in a conspicuous way. But maybe you'll see his place on 'Cribs'. Seriously, that's why I was there, as a consultant for a demo reel for Cribs.

But back to the topic at hand, there's an old saying in CMA, "one shall not sell his/her skills even he/she will be paid ten thousand ounces of gold, but one may pass on his/her skills to a dedicated student whom he/she has just met on a crossing street". I think that's what SPJ is trying to get at....I think. :rolleyes: This saying speaks to many things in terms of money and the martial arts, but more so than anything else, I think it speaks about dedicated students and how rare they can be. The money part is irrelevant. It's about the dedication. Dedication is precious and the key to real martial arts. If there's true dedication, then there's have a chance. But meanwhile, the master has got to eat...