why not have a big wing chun semiar to prove the worth of the art

[weakstudent]

i ask all my wing chun brothers i've been reading all this stuff about who has the real wing chun and what version is better why not have a big battle royle with rules of course and invite all the different wing chun schools to represent themselves and test their skills and claims about their art . i think maybe it might stop all the bickering its just my own views am eager to know anybody elses views on the subject . thanks nelson

[Bessho]

Are you trying to liberate the sheep? Think of the bad $$$ consequences.

[CanadianBadAss]

It would stop all the bickering eh? just like when emin fought cheung all the bickering stoped eh...

but it would still be kool to see some wing chun players slap each other up...

|) /- | | |
| / |_| |__

[S.Teebas]

Wouldn't work, because only the people who have something to prove would go.

S.Teebas

[dlew308]

enim is on the cover of some martial arts magazine. I briefly read thru. It was basically repeating the stuff he mentioned in his open letter.

[[Censored]]

Many of these self-proclaimed Level 10 GrandMasters have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

They can not agree to a friendly comparison because their technique is far too deadly, and they can not agree to a NHB-style match because they are far too ethical. So, they are forced to abstain. :rolleyes:

So, we will never know who is the best? Wrong. You can quietly conduct your own investigation.

[mwatson]

You still don't understand what and combat art is and how it relates to fighting. Just because a student of one lineage beat another doesn't prove jack sh#t. It just proves that during that fight the guy that lost made a mistake and the guy that won took that opportunity and made his attack. It doesn't depend on style.It depends on skills. If I were to sit her and pratice only one punch all day. And pratice one move that gets around an opponent. I have created my own art that consist of one step maneuver and one attack. If when I fight you and I use that move and attack(after you made a mistake) and beat you, have I proven my new created art is better than yours. No. you made a mistake and I seized the opportunity and did the one thing I praticed everyday and it worked. If on the other hand if I make a mistake and you attack me and beat me, Have you proved your art better than mine, No.

Quit worring yourself about which is better and just work on what works for you. I don't know how old you are, but if someday you will get past the childish which art is better and cocentrate on how can you make your art work better for you.

[weakstudent]

slipping fist are you talking to me

[[Censored]]

Hit a little too close to home?

You still don't understand what and combat art is and how it relates to fighting. Just because a student of one lineage beat another doesn't prove jack sh#t. It just proves that during that fight the guy that lost made a mistake and the guy that won took that opportunity and made his attack.

Yes, and if you make lots of mistakes then you are no good. If you make even one mistake at the wrong time, you are not good enough. Disagree? Will you tell us next that victory depends on luck?

Quit worring yourself about which is better and just work on what works for you. I don't know how old you are, but if someday you will get past the childish which art is better and cocentrate on how can you make your art work better for you.

And someday after that, if you are intelligent, you will realize that all practices are not equally valuable.

[hunt1]

A competion would not work but a friendly exchange of technique would be interesting.Some things can be proven for example the best position for a fook sau can be proven.You compare fook sau angle etc and a simple punch can prove whick fook sau works best.(If you agree on what best is).The proper stucture can be proven if you accept that body mechanics are universal for physical activities.Can you use your basic WC stance to play golf or swing a baseball bat in an effective manor.I choose these activities bacause they also rely on proper usage of legs, hips, waist.If you can not use your basic WC stance to perform other activities then the stance is not the optimal stance.

Of course the fact that many have an irrational believe that what their Sifu taught them must be right amny will not accept the truth even when it stares them in the face so on second thought why waste the time.

[mwatson]

Weakstudent: Yes I was talking to you. You are implying that a WC NHB competion would solve the problem and that is wrong in my opinion(As I gave it).

Censored: No it did not hit close to home. How are all pratices not equal? If you make a mistake(as in leaving an opening) and your oponent takes the oportunity and hits you where you are open and the result of that causes you to lose, then you lost not bacause of style, but because of your mistake. You could fight the same guy the next time and beat him because he made a mistake(not countering properly to your attack or whatever) and you seized that opportunity and beat him. Thats not luck, just common human error. Yes a Grandmaster could also make a mistake, and get his clocked clean by an oponent who seized the opportunity of that mistake. I am through with my babbling now(Thank goodness). My underling message is that it is SKILL,NOT STYLE.

[[Censored]]

I am the grandmaster of a new Wing Chun style. You are my student. Here is the style in its entirety:

Any time a hand approaches your face, make a wu sao right in front of your nose, a la Three Stooges.

I want you to practice this four hours every day. Master this movement, grasshopper, for when you skilled in Nyuk Nyuk Wing Chun Kuen*, no man will defeat you!

Build a skill, any skill! They are all equally valuable! IT'S THE SKILL, NOT THE STYLE!

Sure it is, if you're attacked by Curly Joe.

If you are very good, you won't screw up when it counts. If you screw up when it counts, you are not very good. Grandmasters are not allowed to make common human errors.

* Rene, I expect a mention in the next edition of your book. ;)

[mwatson]

I dont have to prove it. You say they are not equal. That would imply that you feel some are superior and others inferior. Well which ones do you condisder superior and which ones do you consider inferior.

Alot of people consider Karate inferior to Wing Chun, yet in a Japan/China tournament the karate guys whiped the floor with the chinese wing chun students. Does this prove Karate better than Wing Chun. No. Wing Chun students have whiped the floor with Karate students as well. But now this would go against your belief of superior style because both were equally efective against each other. This is true about other arts. What bugs me is these people running around saying my style is "Superior". These guys have a superior complex and it takes guys like CURLY JOE to put them in their place and bring them back to reality.

;) :eek:

[Sam]

There was a Chi Sao seminar a few years back at Manh. Com. Col. V.A. Thomas, Ralph Mitchel, and James Cama hosted it. Instructors and students from all over the world participated. James Cama's and V.A.Thomas' students dominated and Chi Saoed for over four hours.

[whippinghand]

What a joke.... I guess his foot must have been sore from all that stomping.

[Steven T. Richards]

What were the details of the tournament? Whose WC school(s), whose karate Schools?

I get your point re Superiority complex, but, professionally a superiority complex is manifested by overcompensated behaviour the individual who 'sufers' from it expresses exaggerated inferior behaviour. The oposite is the case in an inferiority complex, you get exaggrated superior behaviour.

[[Censored]]

The point is that skill is not enough, you need the right skill at the right time. (Some people call this a style.) Your perfect nose-level wu saos are worthless when the bad guy isn't trying to poke your eye.

So "skill not style" is not quite correct.

[mun hung]

I agree with hunt1 that a friendly exchange of knowledge would be interesting.

People getting together to actually do this? Good luck.

As far as the chi sau competition you mentioned...two other people on this board besides myself were witness to what their idea of chi sau is.

Maybe we'll try getting together again for the holidays in New York. We'll see...

Dave, do you think it's possible to visit C.K. Chow's class on a Tuesday nite when you're there?