san shou

[SevenStar]

In this month's issue of kung fu/qigong magazine, there is an article about getting CMA schools to support san shou and promote san shou training within their school. His suggestion to setting up a curriculum was basically to do the following:

pick 5 punching techniques from your style
pick 3 kicking techniques
pick 3 throwing techniques

He says to combine that with conditioning and drilling, making those few techniques second nature....the person who does one technique 1,000 times is better off than the person who does 1,000 techniques one time... so, simplicity is key here. He goes on to say that you can still retain the essence of your style, even with the gloves and limited techniques. This is what will keep san shou varied.

Overall, it sounds like they are on to something - I hope that it catches on with all schools. Has anyone else seen this article yet?

[MasterKiller]

What is this magazine you speak of? Do they print it in English?

[Shaolinlueb]

is it the new kungfu qigong issue? i got it right infront of me, shaolin special 05 :D

[Fu-Pow]

I think 7* means "Kung Fu/Tai Chi" magazine.

Anyways, that article was pretty cool. I'm already trying to do that in my own school. My first step was getting my classmates decent gear that could be used for San Shou. My next step is getting mats so we can work on sweeps and throws.

[MasterKiller]

I was just joking. It's in the Mar/Apr issue of KF/TC magazine. I liked the article. I thought it was pretty honest. I would think you would expand the list a little. I would go for 5's all across the board. When I was teaching classes, that's what I would tell people to do -- pull 5 hand, 5 leg, 5 throwing, and 5 ground techniques from the system that they can use effectively and perfect them (or, like my sigung used to say, do them "a thousand-thousand times.")

[SevenStar]

I think 7* means "Kung Fu/Tai Chi" magazine.


I really meant kf/qg... it's gene's new project. Did they run it in kung fu/tai chi as well?

[SevenStar]

I was just joking. It's in the Mar/Apr issue of KF/TC magazine. I liked the article. I thought it was pretty honest. I would think you would expand the list a little. I would go for 5's all across the board. When I was teaching classes, that's what I would tell people to do -- pull 5 hand, 5 leg, 5 throwing, and 5 ground techniques from the system that they can use effectively and perfect them (or, like my sigung used to say, do them "a thousand-thousand times.")


I dunno... in judo, they tell us three as well. I was taught to have eight throws that I could use - one for each direction of offbalancing - but of those, three that were my bread and butter.

[AGH]

I picked 5 punching techniques as it covers alot of ground and sets up a good foundation. I picked 3 kicks for the same reason of providing a base, sidekick, round kick, front kick. For some fighters, that is all you need. 3 throws are a good start too. My teacher had us pick one throw and do it 1000 times in a week, when it felt comfortable, we could work on an other throw and so on and so on. I though that this was sufficient for providing a good base in sanshou, just a good beginning for those interested. Building on this foundation would come with improvment in training. Hope you liked the article.

Ayron

[SevenStar]

1,000 times a week - that's what I'm talking about!

that article was a basci intro... the first step. Can you talk about the rest of your program, or are you covering that in a future article?

[SifuAbel]

mu ga no mind

[AGH]

Sevenstar - 1000 times a week was the goal, not everyone reached it. Not trying to fool you into believing that. I would aim for 200 throws a day, if I got over 500 for the week, I was happy. It keeps you trying. I managed to get to 1000 a week only once when I was training for the Worlds in Macao. The journey is more important than the destination. A boxer doesn't train the jab only 10 times then figure that he knows it well enough to move on. It is constant repetition and refinement. That's how I teach sanshou. Other teachers may do it differently, this is just my way. Not sure what I want to do for my next article. I was thinking of doing one on Hsing Yi 5 element sword. Maybe I'll do another sanshou one, I want to expand on my previous article on Linking Combinations.

[SevenStar]

Sevenstar - 1000 times a week was the goal, not everyone reached it. Not trying to fool you into believing that. I would aim for 200 throws a day, if I got over 500 for the week, I was happy. It keeps you trying. I managed to get to 1000 a week only once when I was training for the Worlds in Macao. The journey is more important than the destination.

I think you misunderstood me. I like the idea. When I am getting ready for a judo tournament, I do my throws for 300 reps per night....ideally. sometimes I make it, sometimes I don't, but that's the goal.



A boxer doesn't train the jab only 10 times then figure that he knows it well enough to move on. It is constant repetition and refinement. That's how I teach sanshou. Other teachers may do it differently, this is just my way.



I completely agree. IMO, that is the best way. our thaiboxing, bjj and judo classes are run in the same manner.

[DragonzRage]

"This is what will keep san shou varied."

On one hand I think this guy has the right idea for the kung fu peeps, with regards to having them develop some honest to goodness fight training and getting past all the BS that has polluted their style. Simplify, train hard, fight, and learn/develop from real experience. On the other hand, i dunno about how much this will keep san shou "varied". If you take the most practical five punches, three kicks, three throws from any kung fu system, you'll more than likely end up with:

a) some variation of jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand
b) roundhouse, sidekick, front kick
c) three generic throws

Let's say every kung fu style were to do this. To my mind, it'd probably just serve to hack away all the extraneous and stylized bells & whistles of all these kung fu methods, and pretty much eliminate most of the variety among all these miscellaneous systems. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I doubt that it would end up showing us the fighting differences between Hung Ga, Eagle's Claw, Drunken Chicken Choker, etc etc. Instead, they'll all end up looking more or less the same. Putting aside all the fluff, the bare basics in these styles that are actually practical are probably very similar. On top of that, everyone will eventually incorporate all the same basic muay thai, wrestling, etc that has proven so effective in Sanda. So I think this would mean the revival of practicality in kung fu fighting methods, but the end of variety.

[AGH]

Like I said, it's meant as a beginning. I never said pick 5 punches, 3 throws, 3 kicks, and voila, you are all done! It's a starting point.

[Reggie1]

Let's say every kung fu style were to do this. To my mind, it'd probably just serve to hack away all the extraneous and stylized bells & whistles of all these kung fu methods, and pretty much eliminate most of the variety among all these miscellaneous systems. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I doubt that it would end up showing us the fighting differences between Hung Ga, Eagle's Claw, Drunken Chicken Choker, etc etc.

Yeah, I thought the techniques were set as a starting point.

Also, I know on Sifu Ross' San Da / San Shou DVD he makes a couple of points about what a 'mantis guy' might do or a 'bagua' guy might do, and they are all used as examples in San Shou competition.

[norther practitioner]

but the end of variety.

or the beginning.

[Becca]

"This is what will keep san shou varied."

On one hand I think this guy has the right idea for the kung fu peeps, with regards to having them develop some honest to goodness fight training and getting past all the BS that has polluted their style. Simplify, train hard, fight, and learn/develop from real experience. On the other hand, i dunno about how much this will keep san shou "varied". If you take the most practical five punches, three kicks, three throws from any kung fu system, you'll more than likely end up with:

a) some variation of jab, cross, hook, uppercut, overhand
b) roundhouse, sidekick, front kick
c) three generic throws

Let's say every kung fu style were to do this. To my mind, it'd probably just serve to hack away all the extraneous and stylized bells & whistles of all these kung fu methods, and pretty much eliminate most of the variety among all these miscellaneous systems. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But I doubt that it would end up showing us the fighting differences between Hung Ga, Eagle's Claw, Drunken Chicken Choker, etc etc. Instead, they'll all end up looking more or less the same. Putting aside all the fluff, the bare basics in these styles that are actually practical are probably very similar. On top of that, everyone will eventually incorporate all the same basic muay thai, wrestling, etc that has proven so effective in Sanda. So I think this would mean the revival of practicality in kung fu fighting methods, but the end of variety.
Me thinks you glazed over the part were he stressed keeping the flavor of your art alive and incorporating it. This "flavor" is aruable the only real diference other than theory related issues, in CMA today.

[SPJ]

It take both to Tango.

If San Da rules are widely promoted and known, all schools or styles of MA including CMA may all participate.

So that is a platform that all may participate, including TKD, Judo etc.

Think big to grow.

The sky is the limit?

:D