Question About slt

[CanadianBadAss]

The slt is practiced from the pigeon toad stance. So when we practice it, body structure, body mechanics, chi flow and what not is developed for that stance. But then when we fight (some lineages any way..) they have that other stance, where you're on an angle to your opponent. And from that other stance different body mechanics would be used, so would that make practicing the slt pointless?

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[dzu]

No matter what steps, stances, or horses you use, everything starts with Yee Jee Kim Yeung Ma. Once you understand the concept of body alignment, structure, and rooting you can apply it to everything. Before you can step, though, you first have to learn how to stand.

Dzu

PS pigeon toe does not automatically equal good root

[joy chaudhuri]

You carry what you learned from the slt including the rooting and the alignments with you no matter what you do.

[S.Teebas]

You need to learn the rules before you can break them!


S.Teebas

[Martial Joe]

Who here enjoys Teebas's posts...I sure do...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[anerlich]

Not all WC substyles use the pigeon toed stance for SLT. Mine does not.

Just to play devils advocate:

A past member of the WCML, Andrew Williams, who was very knowledgeable in sports science, made the point on several occasions that skills learned in a static stance do not necessarily translate well to those performed while stepping.

Do you really need to learn to stand before you can step? I don't know the answer, but do babies have more luck walking (a "controlled fall") before they learn to stand still? Is it is easier to learn to ride a bicycle while it is in motion than to learn to balance at traffic lights?

In many ways, learning correct alignment for hitting power and stability might be easier while on the move, as the changes required to hit powerfully from a static position are rather smaller and more subtle.

I learned SLT before I learned Chum Kil too, but I'd teach students stepping at the same time I was teaching them SLT, rather than have them stand there for three years before they started moving.

Arguably SLT is a good beginner's form because it allows the trainee to concentrate on one thing at a time, rather than be overwhelmed with having so many things to do at once.

I'm not saying this argument is watertight, just suggesting that all the Wing Chun "truths" should be examined critically by every practitioner and not unquestioningly swallowed.

[joy chaudhuri]

Andrew Williams knowledge of physiology and bio
mechanics is awesome..agreed ...but as you can expect, I disagree on the importance of stance training. In sports and boxing and wrestling it is not that important. But not because of "sifu sez" but by actual training and experimentation I find the
rooting one gets and the joint alignments that develop in slt is important for doing wing chun...
not necessarily for doing non wing chun motions.
Interestingly very very good, fast and effective taiji folks like Master Fen and Chen X, W. also advocate long "standing stake" and standing "silk reeling" basics for building strong foundations of the art. I know that the TWC stance is vastly different and appears to require a differnt set of mechanics... and conception of lines(central line etc)

[anerlich]

Thanks for the cordial hello

Good points.

As I said, I'm playing devil's advocate. I ain't given up practicing SLT yet.

I don't think that TWC is as different from everything else as you suggest though. It's still done by humans with two arms and two legs :-D ,and much of the "differences" are marketing.

[S.Teebas]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't think that TWC is as different from everything else [/quote]

If you vist other WC schools (other than TWC) you may think differenty.

And you might see more in the stance too.


S.Teebas

[anerlich]

You're presuming a lot about my background, of which you know next to nothing.

You're entitled to your opinions, though I doubt they're based on experience wider or deeper than mine. I have trained with several WC teachers and other KF and non-KF styles as well.

I stand by my earlier post.

[S.Teebas]

Fair enough. Im sure you have much more knowledge then i do. But from my 'limited' experiences I saw the system to be different (not better or worse!) but different to other WC schools.

I am interested in what similarities you see?


S.Teebas

[whippinghand]

"I ain't given up practicing SLT yet."

Without a "pigeon-toed" stance, you may as well give it up.

[anerlich]

Some people seem think that your glib replies are an indication of deep knowledge.

Others seem to feel this indicates you are a person of little knowledge who attempts to conceal it by such glibness.

Your odds of belonging to the latter category just improved considerably after that last post. Like about 10-1 on.

[dzu]

AbMan,

I am familiar with Andrew Williams's arguments on the WCML, but I have to disagree somewhat with the argument that standing skills don't translate to moving skills (to paraphrase).

When taught properly, standing allows the student to find where his own center of gravity is first. He learns to manipulate it to both receive and generate force. IMHO, the student is able to learn his own limits for handling pressure and refine his capability to divert external force to the ground. The student learns WHEN to step in relation to bad situations because he knows how much force he can 'handle' without affecting his own structure. I like to compare this to Sun Tzu's statement of "Know yourself...". SNT/SLT not only defines the imaginary opponent's center, but our own as well.

This learning process, however, is not done with a static stance, but by standing in place and dynamically adjusting one's own center of gravity to the external stimulus i.e. gravity, pressure from a partner, etc. So I do agree that a 'static' stance is not helpful other than for leg conditioning. However, there is a very distinct difference between 'static' stance and dynamic standing. When you stand on one leg, do your foot and toes stay locked in one position, or do they make micro adjustments to maintain your balance?


regards,

Dzu

[whippinghand]

Only I will know...

[anerlich]

... and so my assessment of you as an ignorant troll might as well be correct, as no one else will know, and few will care.

[whippinghand]

exactly.