Cha Quan

[shaolinche]

I practice Cha quan #4. I know that within Northern Long Fist this is the most practiced cha quan form. I also know that there are three branches of cha quan. I am not sure what branch my cha quan form comes from. Our form has angles and is not in a straight line. Also our form can be performed with four people. If anyone has any info let me know.

[oasis]

u can read about the different sets here (http://www.plumpub.com/sales/vcd/coll_cha.htm)

also click the link on that page for more background. for your question about doing it with 4 people, you'll have to ask northernshaolin...

[Shaolin Dude]

from the looks of the vcd covers, I think I know vcd #102

[NorthernShaolin]

Ch'a Number 4 is #90.

#102 is a basic set called Tan T'ui which is in Ch's curriculum.

[norther practitioner]

Check out some vids here (http://www.jiayo.com/videos/classical.html)

they don't have 4 however.

[oasis]

actually NP,

jiayo does have a clip of a version of #4. it's the Honghumingquan. i also have a version of this in book form-wushu among chinese muslims :cool:

[shaolinche]

Jiaoyo's clip honghumingquan version of Cha #4 is a lot different than the Cha #4 that I practice. However, I can see some similiarities. The Cha quan that I practice I haven't seen anyone else practice it outside of my lineage.

[Starchaser107]

I also have a version of this traditional form, that differs in ways to how it is performed at jiayo.

[Shaolinlueb]

I also have a version of this traditional form, that differs in ways to how it is performed at jiayo.

probably the same one i have seen my sihing do.

[NorthernShaolin]

Shaolinlueb,

Besides the PRC's standard Cha #4, there are actually three branches of Ch'a Style in TCMA. They are Chang, Yang and Li branches. The most popular is Yang Branch with Li Branch being the least popular branch. Chang Branch is very similar to the Yang Branch, flowing and fluid while the Li Branch is a little more harder in comparison.

Isolating the set, Cha#4, we can easily observe that Yang and Chang are very similar while Li's Cha#4 appears way different. However, all three have 10 hand sets and their descriptive names, i.e., Cha#7 descriptive name is Plum Flower and Cha #9 descriptive name is Dragon Whips Its Tail, are all the same.

[norther practitioner]

NS, don't a lot of the BSL schools practice Cha #4? Which lineage is that out of if so?

[NorthernShaolin]

NP,

Most BSL schools teach the Yang Branch of Cha, mainly because most of the old masters of BSL were at the Kuo Shu schools. And for some reason (more likely close proximity), most of the Cha Style master who went to the Kuo Shu were of the Yang Branch. The Kuo Shu schools encourage the masters to trade and share their knowledge with other northern mansters and thus the main set that was exchanged was Cha#4. The Kuo Shu also required every master to write their knowledge in book form. Thus most existing old books on Cha style are of the Yang Branch. This also made this branch the most popular of the three.

[NorthernShaolin]

Shaolinlueb

Can you expand on this?:

Quote: Our form has angles and is not in a straight line. Also our form can be performed with four people.

Are you saying that because the set is linear, 4 people can do the set at the same time or that one does the set and four people are attacking ... like a sparring set?

[Shaolinlueb]

Shaolinlueb

Can you expand on this?:

Quote: Our form has angles and is not in a straight line. Also our form can be performed with four people.

Are you saying that because the set is linear, 4 people can do the set at the same time or that one does the set and four people are attacking ... like a sparring set?

NorthernShaolin

I cant really expand on it too much. I have only seen the form once or twice. my sifu has only shown me parts of it. Our BSL lineage comes from Lueng Lee Fu and Cha does too. If you know him you know he adds stuff and takes stuff out. Where he learned his Cha and BSL from we only know from his Kung Fu Family in Malaysia.

[GeneChing]

....we are currently working on Tan Tui and Cha #4 vidoes from Master Zhang Lingmei. I'm nost sure when they will be out exactly - hopefully summer. I know that I'm scheduled to work on some lyric translation for the project soon. Given that it's Master Zhang, I'm assuming this will toe the PRC line, although her first teacher was a traditional Cha master named Liu Chunfang. I beleive Master Zhang is in her sixties now and is still in amazing shape. I haven't seen her Cha form yet, but I have high expectations.

[Starchaser107]

It would be interesting to hear the lyrics.

[norther practitioner]

Gene:
10 or 12 Line?

NS,

Thank You, Thats what I thought you'd said last time we talked about this here.

[GeneChing]

...I don't really know since I haven't even started on the project. I just know it's one of the many things on my 'to do' list...

[Shaolinlueb]

...I don't really know since I haven't even started on the project. I just know it's one of the many things on my 'to do' list...

yeah, your not the only one with a big list. odnt you hate it. when one thing gets done, 3 things get added. :( :o :D

[shaolinche]

Our Cha #4 doing it with four people is a group set not a sparring set. The way that it works is four people make a square and face different directions if that makes sense. Then everyone does the form together. Parts of the form there are jump kicks with punches and we all face each other landing in the middle with a punch so our fists are all together. It is pretty cool. Our form has parts where you walk in 45 degree angles. We also have another form called Ba Gua Liu Tui that is done with a group of four people. This form is more circular. I am not sure where though what branch our Cha form is from. My Grandmaster was from Shandong, China and moved to Taiwan 1949 where he was a famous teacher. My Grandmaster name is Yin Chian Ho. My father was his top student in Taiwan. His name is Master Lu.

[Judge Pen]

Our Cha #4 doing it with four people is a group set not a sparring set. The way that it works is four people make a square and face different directions if that makes sense. Then everyone does the form together. Parts of the form there are jump kicks with punches and we all face each other landing in the middle with a punch so our fists are all together. It is pretty cool. Our form has parts where you walk in 45 degree angles. We also have another form called Ba Gua Liu Tui that is done with a group of four people. This form is more circular. I am not sure where though what branch our Cha form is from. My Grandmaster was from Shandong, China and moved to Taiwan 1949 where he was a famous teacher. My Grandmaster name is Yin Chian Ho. My father was his top student in Taiwan. His name is Master Lu.

Shaolinche,

I wanted to thank your school for being so helpful with my questions this weekend. I enjoyed visiting and found Master Becky and Allegra very helpful and courteous. Your mother made sure to say hello and Master Lu made a point to make sure that my questions were answered. You have an excellent school there as evidenced by the quality of the students. I even watched them do Cha quan. :cool: Is the Cha that they did the #4 that you practice?

[Robert Young]

Shaolinche,


> My Grandmaster name is Yin Chian Ho.

I know your grand teacher. I believe the #4 Char quan you leaned was from the school your grand teacher went to. Your GM went to a martial art school called "Guo Shu Ti Yu Zuan Ke Shue Shiao", meaning martial art physical eduation institute. The school was established to be a continue of Nang Jin Zong Yan Guo Shu Guan (Nang Jin Centrol martial art institute). The teachers were mostly the graduates of NJ MA institute where #4 Cha Quan was one of the standard materials they taught. The four man form is an adoption of one man form performed with four people. It was designed for performance by 4 people. You can do it with 2 or 3 people actually.

The school your GM went to taught mostly northern shaolin forms. #4 Char Quan was the form that can represent the best of many Char Quan routines. That was why the school only use #4 Char quan as teaching materials. I believe many of the forms you have learned were from the school your GM went to.

There are/were many great teachers in Taiwan graduated from NJ MA Institute. They are the same generation as your GM, but many of them have taught your GM while he attend the school. They all teach pretty much the same materials. Lien Bu, #4 Char, Yang's Tai Chi are among the most commonly taught forms by those teachers.

Most CMA teachers related to NJ MA Institute taught those forms I mentioned earlier. They may have their own variations, but you can tell the similarity.

Hope this kind of back ground helps.

[SaekSan]

Is the Yin Chian Ho you speak of, the same as this one?:

http://www.chinesekungfucenter.com/master.html

Do you have any contact with this school?

Thank you

[shaolinche]

Saeksan,
Yes that is the same Grandmaster Yin Chian Ho. I don't contact the school in Milwaukee too much. Grandmaster Yin after coming to America moved to Milwaukee to open up a school. I have sent emails to them up in Milwaukee a couple of times, but I don't keep in touch that often.

[Robert Young]

SaekSan,

> Is the Yin Chian Ho you speak of, the same as this one?:

Yes. shaolinChe's dad studied with him. When my teacher was younger, about 40 years ago, master Yin always asked my teacher to take a look at his students every time my teacher went to Tai Chun where master Yin taught.

That's why I know some of the history of master Yin. And, that all I know. I met shaolinche's dad after I stayed in Utah and learned that his dad studied with masteer Yin. And, I don't know the people in Milwaukee either.


Robert

[SaekSan]

Good to hear, thank you for your replies!

I visited his school (Milwaukee) right after I arrived in the US. Unfortunately he had just passed away a couple of months earlier. :(

[SiuHung]

Good to hear, thank you for your replies!

I visited his school (Milwaukee) right after I arrived in the US. Unfortunately he had just passed away a couple of months earlier. :(

Saeksan, again apologies for not keeping up with you. :( Our get together will definately happen, I'm just having a hard time freeing up my schedule for it. Any chance you're free this weekend?

As a resident of Milwaukee, I've had some limited contact with this school. They keep a very low profile. Master Yin Chian Ho's school has been around for a fairly long time. From what I've seen, thier stuff is ok, but I don't know much Northern and am not a good judge of its quality. One thing I have noted is that with every instance of contact with them they have been very nice, but seem deep into the master/hero worship thing. It's hard to get through a conversation with them reagarding martial arts without repeted mentionings of their master (whom they obviously have a deep respect for!). I actually considered looking into thier school at one point, but was turned off by thier policy of not sparring.

Anyway, I find it interestig that a recognized Taiwanese master came to Milwaukee to open a school. Too bad it isn't a bigger place with more students! I understand that some of Master Yin's students operate a school in IL.

[SaekSan]

Siu Hung,

No need for apologies my friend! I've been busy myself, this weekend unfortunately does not work for me as I have some family matters to attend to. However next weekend (perhaps 4/10) would work for me, how about you?

As for the school in question, yes, they are quite nice and polite. They have a large facility. It is too bad that they have a no sparring policy.

Most of the contact I have had was with a split group that left after Master Yin's passing. It seems like the two camps dislike each other quite a bit.

It's unfortunate when these things happen.

[SiuHung]

Siu Hung,

No need for apologies my friend! I've been busy myself, this weekend unfortunately does not work for me as I have some family matters to attend to. However next weekend (perhaps 4/10) would work for me, how about you?

As for the school in question, yes, they are quite nice and polite. They have a large facility. It is too bad that they have a no sparring policy.

Most of the contact I have had was with a split group that left after Master Yin's passing. It seems like the two camps dislike each other quite a bit.

It's unfortunate when these things happen.

4/10 I think is ok. I'll check with the boss :o

[shaolinche]

Grandmaster Yin moved to Milwaukee because originally he was from Shandong, China. In Northern China it is cooler. So he wanted to be where the weather was cooler. Otherwise he probably would of stayed in Salt Lake City, Utah. Also, about sparring I don't know what the policy is at Milwaukee, but in Salt Lake if you want to learn how to spar and train to fight you can. Master Lu was Grandmaster Yin's top student in Taiwan and he was full contact fighting grand national champion in Taiwan.

[SaekSan]

Shaolinche,

Great to hear. Did your father compete in the Tai Gan Au tournaments?

I am currently gathering information on the development of Kuoshu in Taiwan, Im looking for information from 1950 to 1970. Do you or your father have any information on this era?

Thank you.

[Fei jiao]

here's a site about Cha chuan. related to Master Xu Gong wei, student of yu Zheng Sheng.

www.zhaquan.com