snake

[Hendrik]

This is a friendly notice that this post might not be accepted by everyone based on personal preference and belive. So, if it is not for you please ignore this post.





The legend said, WCK is an integration of Crane and Snake.



For me, IMHHHHHHHO,
Snake for me is a symbolized of AWARENESS. as for White Crane is about Platform.


Snake is about the kinetic energetics of the art where Crane is about the potential energy.

Snake is the connecting and Crane is that center balancing


When all these Awareness, platform, energetics, connecting, center balancing integrate up. it becomes SLT + CK + BJ.


and Awareness, platform, energetics, connecting, center balancing also can be short form into Awareness, platform, energetics, contact ability.



IMHHHO, what one must face is how to implement the Awareness into the physical body. So that the body is similar to a snake which has Awareness in all part of its body?


.






Just some thoughts. Care to share what snake means for your WCK?

[Gangsterfist]

I have heard that the biu sao or biu jee is the snake hand of wing chun.

[PaulH]

"I fear not their Bong, Tan, and Fook, but who can withstand their combined formless energy?" - A Green Grasshopper on the Battle of Snake and Crane.

P.S. So this is what they mean by pull a hair strand, the whole body moves... Haven't seen anyone yet who can do this beside my lowly worms in my garden. =)

[Gangsterfist]

PaulH-

I think that means something about posture perhaps. I have been told that you should imagine your spine as one large string that continues up to the top of your head and straight up like a puppet. Now imagine someone pulling up on that thread and putting you in proper alignment and proper posture.

However, I can't say that that was exactly what hendrick was talking about.

[Hendrik]

PaulH-



However, I can't say that that was exactly what hendrick was talking about.



if you know the small cosmic cycle then when you going through that path. you will aware of the serpent and how it moves.

[PaulH]

How would you classify BJ in your model, Hendrik? This form to me does not integrate well with SLT and CK - more of a collection of miscellaneous advices on what to do when thing goes wrong.

[Hendrik]

How would you classify BJ in your model, Hendrik? This form to me does not integrate well with SLT and CK - more of a collection of miscellaneous advices on what to do when thing goes wrong.



Paul,

Back to the Awareness training, things can goes wrong and outside looks random or looks chaos. However, that is different between the external choas and the lost of Awareness.

So, can one keep the Awareness/effortless alertness within the chaos? That is the key IMHHHO.

[PaulH]

Like the serene moon in the lake, nothing troubles a heart that is free. - Li Paul =)

[Hendrik]

Like the serene moon in the lake, nothing troubles a heart that is free. - Li Paul =)


Pual,

what do you expect on the finger pointing to the moon?

There is where the awareness is, the beging and the end. so easy to study but difficult to master.

[AndrewS]

Hey Paul,

from a purely mechanical point of view, my take on Biu Tze has been that it's a less compact rearrangement of the mechanics of SNT and CK, made obvious for the thick. The 'snake' idea seems to come out in Biu Tze, 'cos of the degrees of freedom in torso use required to execute the the mechanics.

For instance- turning lan from piercing hands in Chum Kiu vs. diagonal downward elbow in Biu Tze. To me, the latter, 'cos it implies being done tight, probably when in a neck tie, really emphasises getting the hips back, sitting, and adducting hard to get power and make space, hitting yourself out of the clinch, making room to fire the biu/fak=crossface. Dropping the chest gets similarly pointed out, though the shoulder has to be more flexible to get the elbow in, and, from what I can tell, you reallly have to use a specific portion of the shoulder girdle, c/w the lan.

Could just be me though.

Andrew

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Recenltly I openned the path and completed the Small Cycle.

Yes! The Snake/Serpent is noticeable! Actually, a very nice way to describe it but never in a million years would have imagined it to be like that!


:-)

[Happeh]

Just some thoughts. Care to share what snake means for your WCK?


Snake is a description of how the body should move.

The snake strikes in a very particular way according to physics and the way the snake is constructed.

A wing chun person wants to emulate the method by which a snake strikes.


In my opinon, the ideas about various kung fu's are all related to physical stuff. That philosophical stuff always sounds like a snow job to me. I can see people saying "I don't want to tell this guy the real stuff, so I will make up some artsy ****sy philosophy and bamboozle him with bull"

Ya gotta remember this is martial arts. Back in the day in China, whoever had martial arts was a king. People did not go around telling other people the secret of their martial arts. If they did, then everyone would be a king. So they made up lots of bogus stuff to make people go away or to purposefully confuse them.

Kung fu is about power. Most people who want power do not want to give it to others.

[Gangsterfist]

IMHO, wing chun does not strive to emulate an animal like animal boxing does. We do not practice how a bird fights. They fight with their beaks, their talons, and their wings. We fight with our bodies, and most importantly our minds.

Instead of emulating an animal wing chun teaches to use what we already have, the human body. It teaches us to do it with reduced (effecient) movements. We already know by our instincts to punch and kick and head butt, and scratch and bite. Wing chun teaches us how to do all that effectively, effeciently.

Wing chun in a sense is not really traditional in that way. There are no animal forms, the training is progressive, and hands on. Wing Chun is a living progressive art. As science and technology change and more we learn about the human body, the more effecient wing chun shall get. We do not study tigers, and then try to emulate how they attack. Tiger boxing is brutal, and its effective is trained hard and properly, but its not wing chun and it does what wing chun is not about.

[PaulH]

Hey Andrew,

Yeah, I have heard your view of BJ's diagonal elbow strike before where the torso plays a significant part to get out the jam. Usually the back is bent in such elbow strike execution and thus can be hurt easily if you don't do it properly. Gary favors more of a Chum Kiu turn posture. If you adopt the 1st view, then you will see also the idea of hip escape there!

One thing for sure though, the theme of the form is more of how to recover or escape when he controls your center. So if the mechanics is rearranged from SLT and CK as you believe, they tend to be extreme and not centrist like the 1st two forms in my opinion. =)

[AndrewS]

Paul,

doing a crunch, bending at the spine, etc. - that would be how to do that *incorrectly*. I'm talking about downwards compression, keeping the spine roughly neutral, like a slinky moving in the vertical plane.

Maintenance of this internal vertical under dynamic conditions cannot be broken down into rote mechanics, as your body must constantly compensate to maintain the state you're trying to achieve, using slightly different motor pathways to have the same result. Athletes will develop their own kinesthetic models to achieve this- the sense/program/'awareness' that allows them to pull 'it ' off most effectively. These models ('throw' the punch, drive with the elbow, suspend the head, pull the floor apart, tear the bar apart, push the floor away, sit down into your punch, sit back with the bar, make your body like a serpent) are tools you use to activate, refine, and develop skills. Unfortunately, people read far too much into these personal little mental cues.

Mechanics are mechanics- I'm not sure what you mean by 'centrist'. There is no 'centrist' hammer or drill- these are just tools with a certain mechanical advantage. I think what you're talking about are strategies and tactics, and those are another issue.

Andrew

[PaulH]

My lips are sealed by the compression of your two slinky posts, Andrew! Very nice description of good spine mechanics! And yes, I was referring the strategy of chasing center and the means involved! =D =!

[Hendrik]

Most people who want power do not want to give it to others.


I just watched the Alexandra the Great movie on plane.

in that movie as it was said, after Alexandra's rule, the world no longer as before where tribe's fights.... and the world view of many were change or transform.


there are some truth in your world on who want power do not want to give it to others.


there are something which people think it is too easy that dont believe in the truth. I remember I read somewhere in a book of 1950/60s about generating ideas for the Advertisment company. So, the author who is in the top of the Advertising company reveal the key in his book, but clearly said that not too many will follow his path because most people just dont believe that is the way to generate ideas.


and also, those who have no idea about reality, the different between a drill/exersice and rehesal; who keep thinking and expecting the reality has to be according to the way how they think.

I like the part of Alexadra movie when the Quen tell Alexandra to not be close to those who think alots because those who think alots blind themself. Yup, IMHHO, those keep thinking lost their AWARENESS and thus blind themself from the world.


Snake is awareness. White Crane is Enegetics. When the Snake and Crane integrated, there the awareness integrate with the Energetics. The physical is implated/bond/fuse with a soul which is alive- An Alive energy.



just some thought