Working the Heavy Bag

[Wilson]

I'm getting ready to hang my heavy bag this weekend which I haven't used in a few years. I have a boxing/muay thai background and certainly know how to work rounds full of jabs, crosses, hooks, kicks, etc. on the bag. I plan on using the bag as a good workout as well as sharpening my flow and power.

My question is for those of you who work Wing Chun on a heavy bag. What do you work and how do you work it? Is a heavy bag suitable training tool for Wing Chun? Do you feel the heavy bag can improve your Wing Chun techniques. I'm going to start playing around, but hoped to get some insight before the weekend.

I don't want to just get into throwing single straight blasts or roll punching on the bag. Boxing techniques would seem to flow better on the bag but I don't want to only revert back and just train those techniques. Any input would be appreciated......even if its "stick to hitting wall bags, the dummy, or your training partner for Wing Chun".

Thanks

[jonp]

wingchun contains more than jus straight punches

the chum kiu contains a punch similar to a shovel hook or uppercut

the biu tze in my lineage at least contains something that resembles a tight hook.

IMO the punches contained in the form are just seeds to be developed yourself into a whole range of punches from any position.

jus be natural and relaxed as you pummel it, as you should be in a fight. if you train your wck enough the body mechanics inherent in the style should come out.

though to be fair im sure i use more straights than anything else :p

anybody else got any info? i should be gettin a heavy bag at my place soon and could do with a few pointers myself

cheers
jon

[Waxwood rod]

Wing Chun Knees, elbows, palm strikes, chops, inch power, footwork, forearm strikes, kicks, can all be trained with heavy bag.

[fa_jing]

I'd say just hit it with a vertical fist, use the WC structure and footwork. Train the uppercut and the hook too.

For kicks, I really prefer the airshield for thrusting kicks and knees and the Thai pads for roundkicks and knees. We used to do some WC drills with the focus mitts, too. Like just lop sao and punch. Good for developing that "pop" on your strikes as well as accuracy, as I'm sure you well understand given your background.

[anerlich]

Waxwood is correct.

You can also lie it on the ground and practice your "WC groundfighting techniques" ;)

[lawrenceofidaho]

You can also lie it on the ground and practice your "WC groundfighting techniques" ;)
I actually do that sometimes for cardio :D ....... as well as "grappling" with the bag and transitioning from one position to another (bridge & roll, side control to mount, etc.)

20-30 minutes with a 70lb bag on the folding mats in my garage has me breaking a pretty good sweat. :)

[anerlich]

Lawrence, I do that as well.

[amjg2000]

As the others have mentioned, you can train the chum kiu hook, the biu gee hook, as well as the classic straight punch. I've found that you can work fak saos, elbows, and palms as well.

We have a big bag at the school, and I've taped down triangles around the bag, so it kinda helps with the orientation and footwork. Just make sure you don't put too much body movement into the heavy bag, as most people go into boxer mode when they work the bag....

[lawrenceofidaho]

Just make sure you don't put too much body movement into the heavy bag, as most people go into boxer mode when they work the bag....

Could you be more specific about which particular body movements you would recommend limiting, and why?

I find that hip and shoulder movements in pivoting, and certain kinds of stepping are very effective at increasing power. I think it's a mistake to feel that you have to be perfectly "squared-up" to a bag or opponent at all times....... If you're talking about leaning into punches (like when throwing a right cross), I would agree it unbalances you somewhat and is probably not ideal in most situations.

-Lawrence

[Thaegen]

Yes, it gives extra power if you use your hip in your punches, but then you aren't doing WT punches.

[duende]

Yes, it gives extra power if you use your hip in your punches, but then you aren't doing WT punches.

Umm this is subjective. We use are hip in our punches, as do many other lineages. We also use our footwork.

But I agree... going into boxing mode would require less efficient use of energy. However of the focus is on developing cardio, this is not such a bad idea.

[cobra]

a lot of power can be generated using the hips and WT absolutely does use the hips

[lawrenceofidaho]

Yes, it gives extra power if you use your hip in your punches, but then you aren't doing WT punches.

LT WT does not emphasize hip power in the student programs as much, but it does in the technician programs, (particularly in the dummy applications).

-Lawrence

[Thaegen]

Thanks, I didn't know that, but I only do WT for a year and I am a 4grade student.

[lawrenceofidaho]

Thaegen,

do you practice escrima as well? (Latosa / Newman?)

-Lawrence

[Gangsterfist]

I actually do that sometimes for cardio :D ....... as well as "grappling" with the bag and transitioning from one position to another (bridge & roll, side control to mount, etc.)

20-30 minutes with a 70lb bag on the folding mats in my garage has me breaking a pretty good sweat. :)

One time my buddy got drunk and fought a giant wicker chair. Needless the to say the chair took him to the ground and after about 15 mins of rolling around on the ground my buddy was wore out, and the chair had infact won.

True story.

[Thaegen]

I did Kali arnis escrima at the same moment I started WT(same instructor), but I found WT better. But I think our instructor now has switched to Kali si-karan?? Don't know for sure.

I liked the knife fighting...but overall I find WT better.

[IRONMONK]

Why isnt hip useage emphasized in WT student programs?
if it adds power to the punch it should be taught asap instead of waiting years!!!

[lawrenceofidaho]

Why isnt hip useage emphasized in WT student programs?
if it adds power to the punch it should be taught asap instead of waiting years!!!
If they teach it right away, how will the instructors keep the students in awe with their comparative power for the first five years.

:D Kidding!

(sorta)

[lawrenceofidaho]

Unfortunately, it seems that if one has a relative "purist" for an instructor, the only cross-training a WT person seems to be able to do without being considered a heretic is Latosa / Newman Escrima. -Fine........I'd definitely recommend taking advantage of that if one has the opportunity. (All of the WT guys with true fighting ability have.)

The footwork, body mechanics, and adaptability of those systems have a lot to offer the WT student, IMO.

PERFORMANCE is much more important than whether or not what you're doing is exactly what a "pure" wing tsun guy like LT (or whoever) would do in that given situation. -To me, what I can make work in fight is what matters, not the choreographed stuff I see many WT "experts" doing in their demos.

No one wants to get their a$$ handed to them on the street, only to have a bystander say; "Well at least he was doing real WT."

-Lawrence