Neck muscle

[Chizica]

Hey Gungfu Brothers and Sisters,


Last night during class we were practicing forward and backward rolls. Everything was going fine until I did a backward roll incorrectly. I hadn't realized it until a few moments later when I felt a sharp pain in the area where my neck meets my shoulder. There was no "snap" or anything, it just feels like a bad pull. The crude drawing I attached below gives the general area. When I got home, I put some Icy-Hot on it, and it helped for a little while. This morning I took an extremely hot shower and that has helped a bit as well. At the present time, if I look straight ahead and then slowly turn my head to the left, it feels as if I'm streching something in my neck a bit and there is a slight bit of pain. All in all I think it's more of a pulled muscle than anything, but wanted to get some input as to what everybody thinks I should do about this, as I've never pulled a muscle in this area before.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Mo Lung]

Got to your local sports injury clinic, or regular doc if there's nothing else available, and have it looked at. See a professsional - your health is too important to risk.

[FooFighter]

I think you pulled it from improper technique which has happen to me when I did mat work in my sambo classes. Here are what you can do now to improve it:

1. Rest it and dont do anything to make it worst. Please exercise common sense.
2. Use "SuperBlue." (www.bluestuff.com) This stuff works wonders and I swear by it. It is the BEST topical pain relieving cream on the market. DONT buy the copy cat "blue" products, ok.
3. Do light PNF stretches in your neck area. Pavel's book is helpful here. (www.dragondoor.com)
4. Alternate Hot/Cold shower toward your neck area.
5. You should think about learning some joint based exercise such as "warrior wellness" (www.rmax.com) by Coach Scott Sonnon.
6. Try acupunture and sport based traditional chinese medicine. There is a great book by Tom Bisio called "A tooth From The Tiger's Mouth: How to Treat Injuries with Powerful Healing Secrets of the Grreat Chinese Warriors". I would HIGHLY recommend this book for any martial artists who are interested in the healing aspects of gung fu. I hope you feel better.

With Respect and Strength,
Bao
PS: I think it is wise to check out the injury with a doctor or health professional as someone else already recommended. It cant hurt unless they treat your injury. LOL.

[Happeh]

Thanks in advance for the advice.


I am not a DR but I am curious about the human body. If you go look in the mirror, does one of your shoulders look higher or lower than the other? If so, which is which? Which shoulder, high or low, is the hurt side?

Does one of your ears extend out from the side of your head more than the other? Is your head round or even on both sides or does it seem larger on one side and smaller on the other?

If these questions are intrusive or private, just ignore me. I collect information compulsively because you never know what you might learn. :)

[Chief Fox]

Just rest. If it still hurts in a couple days go to a doctor.

Best case senario: it's just a pulled muscle.
Worst case senario: You may have to have your head amputated. This is rare though.

[ewallace]

I've a had a couple injuries like this. Only difference was I could not look straight up. I had to look down at the ground or it was excruciating. An anti-inflammatory and a muscle relaxer fixed it up in a day or two...both times.

[Chizica]

I am not a DR but I am curious about the human body. If you go look in the mirror, does one of your shoulders look higher or lower than the other? If so, which is which? Which shoulder, high or low, is the hurt side?

Does one of your ears extend out from the side of your head more than the other? Is your head round or even on both sides or does it seem larger on one side and smaller on the other?

If these questions are intrusive or private, just ignore me. I collect information compulsively because you never know what you might learn. :)


Neither side is higher than the other. They're both the same level. My ears are both the same at this point as well, so there's no swelling if that's what you mean.

[Chizica]

Just rest. If it still hurts in a couple days go to a doctor.

Best case senario: it's just a pulled muscle.
Worst case senario: You may have to have your head amputated. This is rare though.

I need my head right where it is, so hopefully it's just a pulled muscle. As a matter of fact, it's been getting better as the day wears on.

Luckily, I have a low stress job sitting in front of a computer on my Arse all day, so there's no heavy lifting.

[ewallace]

That's what my job is too. My neck got so bad that I was essentially laying my head on my desk looking sideways into the monitor because I couldn't hold my head up.

[spiraler]

I am not a DR but I am curious about the human body. If you go look in the mirror, does one of your shoulders look higher or lower than the other? If so, which is which? Which shoulder, high or low, is the hurt side?

Does one of your ears extend out from the side of your head more than the other? Is your head round or even on both sides or does it seem larger on one side and smaller on the other?

If these questions are intrusive or private, just ignore me. I collect information compulsively because you never know what you might learn. :)


very curious to why you asked this happeh, this has happened to me before, right shoulder.

[GeneChing]

I just had a similar injury, although not from anything martial. Just last week, I had this really bad allergy attack that nearly closed my eyes shut. While stumbling around my home, trying to dose myself with homeopathic eyedrops and claritin, and place a cool towel over my eyes, somehow I took the worst neck/shoulder injury I've had in my life. Once the allergy subsided, my neck just seized. It was so bad that I couldn't turn over in bed all night and slept very poorly. I also went to the doctor because it was so weird and deep. He said I had a massive cerivical muscular seizure, and recommended heat, deep tissue massage, anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen) and rest (all of which I was already doing). He also put me on Flexoril, a muscle relaxant, but that didn't work out for me. It made me too spacey, as if I'm not spacey enough already, and did nothing to relief the pain. The only thing it relaxed was my left hand, making it very hard for me to type, which is, of course, what I do for a living. It's been a week now. I have full range of motion but my neck and shoulder are still in a lot of pai, and movements are 'crunchy'. I've been doing light stretching, eight section brocade, taiji and xingyi, plus some sit ups and running, but avoiding things like push ups and such. For seizures, it's important to keep moving through it slowly so things to lock up anymore.

Must have been something in the stars. I've had two other people tell me they injured their neck/shoulders around the same time...

[Starchaser107]

a pain in the neck is usually brought on by unwelcome presences. has bl been resurfacing? :cool:

[IronFist]

Dude you pulled your trap (trapezius). You'll be fine in a few days.

Warm up and stretch out next time :D

If you want we can give you some exercises to strength/stretch that muscle.

[Chizica]

Thanks for all the information. For the record, I'm a 35 yr old guy. But the good news is that I've been taking it easy, taking Ibuprofen, and generally just resting. My neck is feeling alot better today. It seems that it was just a pulled muscle.

The pull happened during class just after all the warm ups/strecthing so it occurred due to a badly executed backward roll. A few more days of rest and I think I'll be just fine. I don't have class again until Monday so by that time I think I should be feeling alot better.


cjurakpt -- thanks for the offer, but I live up in the Buffalo area and would kinda find it economically unfeaseable to come down to your clinic. It's about an 8 hour drive.

[IronFist]

sorry, but you have NO IDEA if that's what he did (and BTW, if so, which one? if you think that the side of the pain/symptoms is necesarilly on the side of the injuy...), and you have no ability to say with such certainty how he'll be in a few days (nobody does); I would suggest refraining from distance diagnosis for everyone's sake; my advice, don't ever give advice unless you have something to support it - you'll notice that in my previous post I only spoke in generalities - I didn't say anythig specific about Chizica, because I DIDN'T EXAMINE him/her (?)

how do you know he didn't? and what makes you think that even if he had, it would have necesarilly prevented that specific injury? try this: you go warm up/stretch for an hour, and then I'm going to drop you head first onto a wooden floor - you let me know if it makes a difference;

first, almost nobody has weak upper traps and most people have weak lower and middle traps; which are you talking about? did you even know there was a difference? second, to properly address a strain, you have to address not only the muscle itself, but often the antagonist muscle group (the muscle group that works in direct opposition to it - like biceps vs. triceps or hamstrings vs. quadriceps); so, if a muscle is inhibited (weak), you strengthen it and stretch the antagonist and if it's facillitated (in spasm / tight), you stretch it and strengthen the antagonist; you would almost never do both, unless the muscle was temporarilly denervated and had both atrophied and become contractured, which is certainly not the case here - so to say you will give him stuff to both stretch and strengthen "traps" makes no sense really; third, to give someone any rehabilitation exercise to do for anything without ever having evaluated them is nuts, and anybody who would take your advice sight unseen is even more nuts; but hey, go for it - I'd be really curious to see what you want for him to do...

Wow. You sure put me in my place :rolleyes:

[Happeh]

very curious to why you asked this happeh, this has happened to me before, right shoulder.


Oh heck. This is a bear to explain. I invented this unique view of the body.

Most of the ailments I hear of people having from headaches to asthma to different length legs to heart attacks to Alzheimers disease are all described by the same root cause.

If a person has high and low shoulders, the theory says that is because one entire side of the body is smaller/larger than the other entire side of the body. That is why I asked him about his ear and head. It would be quite common for the head on the side of the low shoulder to appear smaller or thinner. This would cause the ear to look as if it sticks out more. If those symptoms showed up plus another 3 or 4 I could ask about, I could say the theory applies to him and his injury.

I am going to stop right here because you say you had it before, right shoulder. I am assuming you mean pain. But you included my quote about the high and low shoulders so I also assumed you got a high and a low shoulder.

Is that true? Are your shoulders uneven? And what is it exactly you want to know? It is 2 in the morning, I think I am feeling mentally slow. :)

[unkokusai]

Oh heck. This is a bear to explain. I invented this unique view of the body. I think I am feeling mentally slow. :)


Holy crap :eek:

Kid, you seriously need to seek professional help. You're a fvckin' nutcase.

[Mr Punch]

OMGRATFLMFAO! :D

(not usually given to such hyperbole, but there's this **** ten-character limit... and it was pretty funny!)

[john_stone]

Thanks for all the information. For the record, I'm a 35 yr old guy. But the good news is that I've been taking it easy, taking Ibuprofen, and generally just resting. My neck is feeling alot better today. It seems that it was just a pulled muscle.

The pull happened during class just after all the warm ups/strecthing so it occurred due to a badly executed backward roll. A few more days of rest and I think I'll be just fine. I don't have class again until Monday so by that time I think I should be feeling alot better.



Maybe you should toughen up... ;)

[fa_jing]

If a person has high and low shoulders, the theory says that is because one entire side of the body is smaller/larger than the other entire side of the body.

Your theory is correct. Almost. Actually, one side is "foreshortened" usually in this case. That means, the actual bone lengths are the same. But, due to internal rotations and bunching up of the fascia (connective tissue) one side ends up shorter than the other. It will typically manifest itself in more than one limb or area. Actual bone length differences are supposed to be extremely rare, while leg length differences are fairly common.

At least, that is according to a Rolfer I used to visit.

[Chizica]

Maybe you should toughen up... ;)

C'mon back to the office Johnson, we'll see who's tough enuff. My neck is feeling alot better now Mister "Iv'e got a cold". :D

[GeneChing]

a pain in the neck is usually brought on by unwelcome presences. has bl been resurfacing?:mad:

Actually, I have no idea where this injury came from. That's the weird thing. My allergies are really bad now though. California had a lot of late rain which has brought quite a bloom, plus we've taken in a feral cat and I'm allergic to cats. But one of the nice perks about my position is that I can get a lot of free bodywork by some of the best in the business when it comes to martial injuries (also some crappy ones, got to be selective, ya know.) I'm just about to get some work from the one and only Grandmaster Tu (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=317). :eek: Actually, he's one of the best. He has amazing dit da zhang and TCM skills.

[GeneChing]

Only I didn't suffer from any respiratory symptoms, just eye irritation. But I suppose it could still have some reciprocal effect.

The treatment by GM Tu was pretty good and I felt I made some progress. He did massage, moxibustion and cupping. A lot of cupping. I look like I was molested by an octopus. He also cracked my neck, which gave my some instant relief, although it was a bit unsettling. The guy has guns like watermelons, so when he wrapped around my neck, it was like being smothered with bicep. He also lectured me about how I'm getting older and should do more qigong than Shaolin. Screw that. ;)

[PangQuan]

Oh heck. This is a bear to explain. I invented this unique view of the body.

Most of the ailments I hear of people having from headaches to asthma to different length legs to heart attacks to Alzheimers disease are all described by the same root cause.

If a person has high and low shoulders, the theory says that is because one entire side of the body is smaller/larger than the other entire side of the body. That is why I asked him about his ear and head. It would be quite common for the head on the side of the low shoulder to appear smaller or thinner. This would cause the ear to look as if it sticks out more. If those symptoms showed up plus another 3 or 4 I could ask about, I could say the theory applies to him and his injury.

I am going to stop right here because you say you had it before, right shoulder. I am assuming you mean pain. But you included my quote about the high and low shoulders so I also assumed you got a high and a low shoulder.

Is that true? Are your shoulders uneven? And what is it exactly you want to know? It is 2 in the morning, I think I am feeling mentally slow. :)

It is very uncommon for someones shoulders to be exactly level. If ones shoulders were to be so level this would imply one to be completely ambidextrous. Generally how it works is which ever hand you are dominant with, that shoulder will naturally ride a little higher, due to more muscle mass, and several other factors. This doesnt mean that everyone is the same but its an average. At least thats what my chiropractor said when I dislocated a few ribs from my spine.

[GeneChing]

...although given the sudden onset, I'm guessing it was just a weird misstep on my behalf. I was desparately trying to put these homeopathic drops in my eyes, jerking my head in weird positions, and the onset was really quick. The allergy attack wasn't more than half an hour. However, your theory could have certainly agrravated the situation and made it linger.

GM's Tu's treatment did seem to help. I wish I could have got another last night, since he offered but I had to go home and pack. I'm off to give a workshop on restraining combative patients in Humboldt - it's security, emergency, medical, enforcement and production leaders for this big music festival they do up there. I'm a bit concerned since my shoulder is out-of-sorts - not a good time to have to give a workshop and do a lot of hands-on demos. The shoulder is hard to protect for these. But a job is a job. Such is the life a professional martial artists, I suppose. No rest for the wicked.

I'd be interested in any recomendations you might have about shoulder therapy...

[Rand]

Gene,

I would suggest that you get a deep tissue massage on your shoulder/neck. First, make sure that they have experience in dealing with sports related injuries. There are a bunch of folks that claim they give deep tissue massage, but few that deal with sports type injuries. If you ever make it over to Salt Lake City, I can highly recommend one guy that does work with the US Olympic Winter Team.

Only thing about a DTM is that it hurts like hell, but they have helped me several times with various hurts, pulls and injuries.

Yours in the arts,
Rand

[IronFist]

A massage can make certain injuries worse, so be careful. If it hurts, stop.

[Becca]

... I'd be interested in any recomendations you might have about shoulder therapy...
I know this was directed to Chris, but might I suggest a good occupational therapist? I have learned all kinds of things from mine that not only help with training injuries and preventing them, she has been invaluable in building up strength and stamina in all those obscure muscle groups that seem to be most injury-prone. And since an occuptional theripist's specialty is in helping poeple figure out how to complete tasks that they can no longer do, a good one will assist you in keeping more Shaolin in your daily practice... ;) :p :D

[Becca]

My first brush with OT Vs. PT was when I was told by a PT that my hip would never heal well enough for me continue my MA training. My mom's an OT and pretty much told me that was a load of b.s. It would be a long hard raod back, but if I was dilligant and patient, I could get there. I was very impressed with how my OT ( afriend of my mom's) first analized everything about how I move and my lifestyle in general, then set up a unique plan based on that. For instance, part of her plan was to retrain me on how to walk. The new way reduces stress on the supporting ligaments, allowing them to recuperate faster from daily training. My old walk tended to pound my hip , causing pain even when I wasn't training.

[GeneChing]

I'm pretty much better now. I went to practice last night and things felt back in place for the most part. I just need to be protective so as not to re-injure it, but I've been there, done that... One of the perks of my job is a get a lot of good treatments and GM Tu's work helped me make a lot of progress. My wife specializes in deep tissue massage and she knows my body better than I do. Between the two of them, and a nice visit to the healing waters of Vichy Springs last Sunday, I'm feeling back in the game again.

[MasterKiller]

I've had chronic stiff necks since I was like 12 or 13.

I started going to the chiro for some headache issues about 2 years ago and he seemed to solve the problem, except the last 8 weeks or so I've had 3 or 4 pulled muscles in a row. I was just starting to feel better and WHAM! I wake up this morning with a stiff neck again.

[Chizica]

MK -- Ever try getting a new pillow to sleep on at night. Maybe one of those "space foam" ones that contours to your head?

[Akhilleus]

A massage can make certain injuries worse, so be careful. If it hurts, stop.

Yes...but just as importantly, be careful regarding the masseuse...make sure you at least see a picture of HER before making an appointment, that way you can be sure it is a hot chick and not some big hairy guy named Gus...