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View Full Version : Wing Chun Brethren...What have you done to "modify" your own personal Wing Chun?



jojitsu27
07-08-2000, 02:57 PM
In light of the post on modified vs traditional wing chun, I was wondering if I was the only Wing Chun man who has modified his personal wing chun?
I have added some boxing strikes that I think fit in well with Wing Chun, some Southern Mantis footwork, and of course Brazilian Jujitsu!
Thus I have developed my own personal "modified" wing chun.
Have any of you done likewise?
What other styles or techniques have you added to your Wing Chun that you think complement the style?
-jojitsu27

07-08-2000, 05:45 PM
Well, I've added judo strictly for the groundfighting, and other than that, I don't think I'm good enough at wing chun yet to know if anything needs modifying more than me.

------------------
Peace.
Reverend Tim

flavour54
07-08-2000, 07:25 PM
I thought Western Boxing strikes were part and parcel of quality Wing Chun.

------------------
"take the pebble from my hand"

Sam
07-08-2000, 08:05 PM
Well here we go again. This is the problem I have with "modern" Wing Chun pactitioners. You look everywhere else but within your art or claim your art is incomplete. Wing Chun core concepts has everything you need to deal with grappling or striking arts. I speak from some experience. My original kwoon was in a professional boxing gym where champion boxers trained. We also came across many wrestlers, judo/jujitsu players, and Aikidoists. Our art not only stood it's ground but many of them became students. My instuctor always says to observe other arts and consider counter measures from within your own. You cannot take bits from other arts and expect to master them and incorperate them in your own. The only thing that happens is that you weaken all your techniques. Master your art and it wont fail you. It will only takes a lifetime.

@xemili
07-08-2000, 08:41 PM
Boxing strikes. The conditioning and kicks of Muay Thai. And a little, teeny tiny bit of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (For unknown reasons, I'm not doing BJJ anymore)
Sam's generalization of 'modified' Wing Chun does not apply to me, though. I started Wing Chun after I started the other ones.

------------------
Any coward can fight a battle when he's sure of winning.
-George Elliot

HappyPuppyF
07-08-2000, 08:47 PM
Free-Style Wrestling for ground-f ighting.

07-08-2000, 09:58 PM
Sam,

Glad your gym did you so well, but personally, I saw a defect in my own abilities, and am seeking to rectify it. I certainly thing wing chun is a great art. I love it and my sifu's teaching tremendously. I also suck at wrestling, so if I just so happen to slip and fall, I'm screwed, so I went out to address that.

No big deal, and certainly no reason to get quite so condescending.

------------------
Peace.
Reverend Tim

Sam
07-09-2000, 02:47 AM
My intent was not to be condesending just frustrated. Wing Chun is precious to me. It's knowledge is like an ever flowing well which I can drink from. The more knowledge I can grasp the more I realize how much there is to learn. Don't sell it short or surmise that if you don't see the answer in front of your nose that it's not there. I do believe in seeking out knowledge but first fully master whats already on your plate.

07-09-2000, 04:42 PM
Sam,

Well, how's about I use what I'm learning in judo *until* I master what's on my plate? I'm all for personal development and exploring something fully, and if as I go, I find out that my wing chun's already got it covered, great...but if someone tackles me in a bar, I don't want to have to go, "Okay, you jammed my arm up my ass this time, but come back in 5 years when I've figured out how to apply wing chun principles on the ground and then I'll put a hurt on you!"

I'm quite sure that wing chun has everything I'll ever need...but in the meantime, our kwoon has a concrete floor and I've never once seen anyone go to the ground, so even if the principles are there, the drilling isn't, so if nothing else, the judo class is a place I can roll around on the floor without serious abrasions, and there's no reason why I can't try to apply my wing chun while I'm there, too.

It's not like wing chun's my fiance and I'm cheating on it by taking judo. Wing chun's plenty resilient enough to let me try something out...if it's okay with my sifu, which it is, then I have no compunction about cross-training a little. I just want to be a better wrestler, and getting too philosophical about it really gives it more import than it deserves. Think of my time rolling around as "remedial" grappling, 'cuz I'm that bad at it.

That's all. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

------------------
Peace.
Reverend Tim

[This message has been edited by ReverendTim (edited 07-10-2000).]

MoQ
07-10-2000, 12:55 AM
Wing Chun may not be your fiancee', but you will never get in her pants by flaunting your varied interests 'cuz if you have a wandering eye SHE KNOWS MAN, SHE KNOWS... /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

07-10-2000, 01:04 AM
LOL, MoQ,

Wing chun knows I'm just having coffee and flirting harmlessly with judo...

------------------
Peace.
Reverend Tim

HuangKaiVun
07-10-2000, 11:52 PM
I haven't really made modifications to my Wing Chun.

All I've done is made some of the transition movements more circular - I don't really do a "linear" Wing Chun.

Buhma
07-11-2000, 03:15 AM
I don't think I've made any formal changes to WC... just my own personal style.. but from the other thread, I'm beginning to think my own interpretations are probably modifications? Ah well...whatever works /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

oh I did take Akido for a little while... and all it did was make me miss the simplicity and practicality of WC...


[This message has been edited by Buhma (edited 07-11-2000).]

jojitsu27
07-11-2000, 12:05 PM
Sam,
You said >Wing Chun core concepts has everything you need to deal with grappling or striking arts.
From my personal experience I have found the opposite to be true. There is a myth that Wing Chun has everything you need to deal with grappling and it is a lie. It is what keeps Wing Chun a topic of jokes among real fighters, todays NHB elite, who have seen Wing Chun fighters enter the Nhb realm, and get stepped on like toads because they knew no groundfighting.
Wing Chun has NO groundfighting positioning, technique, reversals, submissions, nothing whatsoever.
I personally put out a challenge to any Wing Chun man who refutes this. I will either travel to your school and see your style myself, and if you will not allow that I will take you on in Nhb rules competition so you can show me what groundfighting Wing Chun has inherit in it. I will only use Wing Chun stand-up and brazilian jujitsu groundwork.
This is not a macho thing, but to prove a point. Wing Chun was created to have no ground technique or ability whatsoever and thus is "incomplete" as an art. I love Wing Chun standup and will continue to study it for the rest of my life as I have done the past 10 years, but I refuse to fall prey to the traditionalist mindset that my art has everything. I have traveled extensively...seen Wing Chun in Hong Kong, Singapore, Sri Lanka, England, and here in the U.S. (my job sent me around alot), and I have yet to see a style of Wing Chun that has groundfighting.
And I have seen what happens to a Wing Chun student who thinks that he doesn't need to know ground technique, and that his standup is all he needs.
Sam,
Where is your dojo, school, kwoon, whatever you call it. I want to see your "Wing Chun" groundfighting technique. Not as an antagonist trying to prove you wrong, but as a Wing Chun brother who wants to learn.
I am convinced from what I've seen that there is no Wing Chun groundfighting, but I have an empty cup and am willing to travel and see for myself.
And as a NHb fan I would love a full contact grappling match with anyone who can show me Wing Chun groundfighting.
your wing chun brother,
jojitsu27

Highlander
07-11-2000, 07:43 PM
jojitsu27,

We have a poster here from Texas that posts under Sandman or Sandman2, check out his web site. I haven't seen him post much lately, but you should be able to find an old post of his on the Southern Kung Fu forum. Anyway, he has posted extensively about the topic of Wing Chun against grapplers, he trains against BJJers, and at his web site are videos for sale on the topic of Wing Chun against grapplers. I haven't purchased the tapes yet so I can't comment on them, but they may hold the answers you are looking for.

OOPS, it's not on his website, it's on his Sifu's website. The address is: www.authentickungfu.com (http://www.authentickungfu.com)

[This message has been edited by Highlander (edited 07-12-2000).]

Sandman2[Wing Chun]
07-11-2000, 08:56 PM
Joijitsu27:
Hi there! I'm the guy Highlander is refering to, and yes, we do groundfighting in our WC. That means: we train to foil grappling attacks, takedown attempts, we do mat work from disadvantaged positions (headlocks, guard, mount, etc...), reversals of these positions, reversals of those reversals....and all that sort of stuff. I also have trained on many occasions with some BJJ friends of mine (blue belts at the Carlos Machado school in Dallas). And I can tell you this, Wing Chun DOES have groundfighting, and it's not BJJ. There are definate similarites in many of the basic positions, but what we do in these positions is pretty different, and it's definatly Wing Chun. In our school, I'd say we spend about 20% of our time dealing with grappeling style attacks. Hell, the very first thing we teach when you start are basic counters to single and double arm grabs, front/rear chokes, bearhugs, etc....if fact, you learn 11 of these before you've even seen both Tan and gaun sau. To be honest with you, I can't really imagine others out there aren't learning this stuff, it seems both too important and too integral to being a well rounded fighter. Anyway, I'm kinda pressed for time at the moment, but if you want to, post your email address, and we can discuss this at length. Our school has a very open door policy about exchanging techniques with others, so I'm pretty sure some sort of visit could be arranged. Highlander posted the link to my kwoon, so check that out. BTW, just to let people know, the antigrappler tapes on our site just cover basic WC stratagies for dealing with grappling, and doesn't show alot of mat work, as it focuses most of it's time on standing counters to grappling techniques, the clinch, takedown attempts, throws, etc...but we do much more in class, and that's where most of the "on the ground" groundwork takes place. Still, the tapes have some great basic strategies and techniques on them. Hehe, ok, I'll stop pimping my sifu's tapes now..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Seriously though, if you are willing to travel and learn, he's more than willing to teach. Post your email, and we'll talk!


Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]

Polaris
07-11-2000, 10:31 PM
Like Huang, I have been starting to do some
more circular stuff (I have a fascination
with Bagua), and it has been proving to be
quite useful. There aren't any grappling
schools nearby, and even though I prefer
striking/standup fighting, there would definetly be some merit in learning some
ground fighting if there was someone to teach
me. I will admit that both my teacher, and his teacher are pretty close minded about
other styles, except for a couple internal ones. The thing is though they both have a lot of experience with other styles, they
both use to wrestle, my teacher's teacher has
competed in full contact. My point being is they have been around, and after all the other styles they studied and have come into contact with, they have decided to mainly stick to Wing Chun. My main concern with Wing
Chun isn't really whether it will work or not, but whether or not I will be able to use it properly. It gets discouraging when I do Chi Sao with this one other guy from class, because we always end up getting in a pushing match, we never really pull off any
of our techniques decisively against one another, and generally end up getting very
sloppy. My teacher makes the stuff look
so easy and has no problem getting it to work, but then we try and still screw it up
(this can get very frustrating), but since me
and that guy are at about the same skilllevel
I don't think I should concern myself too much...We are gonna be starting full contact
sometime in the future, so hopefully I will really get the chance to try seriously try it
out. There is supposedly a place near Cleveland where all styles are welcome to come and fight, and I'm hoping to make it up
there sometime as it would be a great opporitunity.

I apologize in advance for any typos /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jojitsu27
07-12-2000, 10:44 AM
Sandman2,
Please e-mail me and let ne know more about what you guys are doing!!
I am extrememly interested, I have been doing Wing Chun for 10 years and have never been able to find legitimate Wing Chun ground techniques....please contact me!
My address is jo_jitsu@hotmail.com
It sounds really cool what you guys are doing, I try and work out constantly against guys at my bjj school. But I can't seem to find any Wing Chun that works on the ground from what I know.
Is there a secret Wing Chun ground form or something?
Also, what lineage are you guys?
Thanks,
jojitsu27

DragonzRage
07-12-2000, 12:28 PM
Secret Wing Chun groundfighting form? LOL!! That's a bunch of hooey. The truth of the matter is that wing chun and other traditional systems like it do not have any sort of extensive groundfighting science. Of course there are always strategies and techniques within the system that can be applied to a ground situation, but let's be honest. Traditional Gung fu does not have any sort of ground grappling that can even compare to the refined and developed methods of modern submission grappling styles. The smart traditionalist is the guy who familiarizes himself with a ground situation learning escapes and counters and perhaps applying some of his own technique to the positioning and structure of groundfighting (wing chun has many striking methods that can adapted very well to a good base in submission grappling). This is the real deal when someone says their wing chun teaches grappling. But all those numbskulls who talk about hidden movements in the forms and "secret" techniques are nothing but a bunch of scam artists.

~Max

BabyBug
07-12-2000, 07:09 PM
I'm not sure how I feel about calling it "modifying" WC. It doesn't sound like modification as much as it sounds like combining WC with aspects of another style. Personally I have a good deal of respect for the style, and I've found that it's a great compliment to ANY system.

As for my approach to Wing Chun, (although I must confess I don't fight a "pure" anything much anymore)I've found that the parry/counterstrike method is a great set up for chin na techniques, throws, etc.

----------------
Praying Mantis Forever!

flavour54
07-12-2000, 08:30 PM
I tried to tell you all in similar thread"The most well rounded art."

[This message has been edited by flavour54 (edited 07-13-2000).]

Sandman2[Wing Chun]
07-12-2000, 09:20 PM
Dragonzrage:


1)I never said there was a Wing Chun Ground form.
2)Our wing chun does in fact have a comprehensive system of ground fighting/grappeling. Do we do nearly as much submission work as BJJ? No, be we do way more striking, and about as much positioning. One of the things I've noticed from working out with BJJ folks, they tend to "position, then submit", we tend to "position, then strike". And yes, that inclueds counters to the mount, the guard, blah blah blah, all that type of stuff. Hey, if you don't belive it, come on down to our school, I've never been coy about where we're at. I honestly can't think of a better way of showing you. Other wise, it's just a matter of me saying "Yes we do" and you saying "No you don't". Heh, I'll trust my own opinion on what I know.... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jo_jitsu, I'll email you.


Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]

DragonzRage
07-12-2000, 11:23 PM
Sandman,

To quote my own post,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DragonzRage:
The smart traditionalist is the guy who familiarizes himself with a ground situation learning escapes and counters and perhaps applying some of his own technique to the positioning and structure of groundfighting (wing chun has many striking methods that can adapted very well to a good base in submission grappling). This is the real deal when someone says their wing chun teaches grappling.
[/quote]

So isn't that what your club is doing? Sounds great to me. I never said ALL wing chun school that teach grappling claim a secret form.

WT
07-13-2000, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jojitsu27:
In light of the post on modified vs traditional wing chun, I was wondering if I was the only Wing Chun man who has modified his personal wing chun?
I have added some boxing strikes that I think fit in well with Wing Chun, some Southern Mantis footwork, and of course Brazilian Jujitsu!
Thus I have developed my own personal "modified" wing chun.
Have any of you done likewise?
What other styles or techniques have you added to your Wing Chun that you think complement the style?
-jojitsu27[/quote]

Wich boxing strikes would fit in with WC?
WT

DragonzRage
07-13-2000, 05:50 AM
After reviewing the tape of the William Cheung/Emin Boztepe fight (yes that same old playground style fight that keeps coming up in topics here) I must conclude that there are no hidden groundfighting forms in wing chun

Sorry couldn't help it /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sihing73
07-13-2000, 07:05 AM
Dragonrage,

You should be ashamed of yourself /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifOf course they are there they are just hidden so you can't see them ROFLOL (See here is a "hidden" technique I am "rolling on the floor laughing out loud" while doing Wing Chun a fine example of hidden groundfighting)

I used to compete in Judo and I hated groundwork so much I would throw my opponenet and then step back to let him get up so I could throw him again. Unfortunately the Judges did not like that and sometimes I was required to do groundwork. Still, I think there are principles which can be translated into ground fighting. Then again, I prefer to run and am thinkng of creating/modifying my Wing Chun to more of an Reebock system. Reminds me of a story I once heard of a monk that learned to run very fast and would outrun all of his attackers. Then when they were too tired to fight he would finsih them off. I think I may be on to something here. Will keep you informed LOL

Peace,

Dave

flavour54
07-13-2000, 07:18 AM
All western boxing strikes fit in with Wing Chun as they all comply to the 108 principles of Wing Chun so long as you don't turn your hand past a 45 degree angle as boxers do to get maximum power transferal through the glove. Wing Chun has groundfighting, although the goundfighting we have in our school is not that extensive and we have been practising Ju Jutsu there as well. For all traditionalists which I consider myself to be, Wing Chun was never meant to be hard and fast with its techniques. If this was the case neither of the weapons would have been included and Sil Lum Tao would probably look different. I've been to three different schools of Wing Chun and all of them had slight variations on the movements. eg one schools tan sao was at a 10 degree angle and they had no kicks at all.
And they claim to be the "real" Wing Chun.
Wing Chun was never meant die by having hard and fast techniques but is meant to be held together by 108 principles and also concepts and strategies. In fact wasn't Wing Chun a mixed martial art to start with. Were the techniques not taken from other martial arts?
Perhaps this post can bridge(pun) the gap a little between traditionalists and realists.

------------------
"take the pebble from my hand"

WT
07-13-2000, 02:42 PM
108 principles?
Could you list them for me,please.
WT

Highlander
07-13-2000, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WT:
108 principles?
Could you list them for me,please.
WT[/quote]

I can't list them, but Yip Man had them carved into small stones. The stones are currently in the Wing Chun museum in Ohio.

WT
07-13-2000, 11:11 PM
Ok,the Kuen Kuit,now I get it. /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
WT

I. P. Chi
07-13-2000, 11:48 PM
To make a Wing Chun punch more effective, put a .357 snubby in your hand.

Sam
07-15-2000, 09:20 AM
Learn the Kung Fu as completely as you can and the hands will be there for you. Good, effective Kung Fu is adaptable to most any modern "street" encounter. Centuries old systems of Chinese Boxing Have encoutered Mongolian and Russian wrestling, Western boxing, Japanese judo,jiujitsu, and karate. Of course there is always room for improvement but it should be done from within. Observe other systems and counter from your own style which you should be masterful in. You don't have to wait twenty years for an answer just be smart and work hard at what you know.

flavour54
07-15-2000, 04:32 PM
Sorry guys, I don't even know them yet and when I do I don't think I'll be posting it on the internet.

jojitsu27
07-16-2000, 01:59 AM
WT,
Let me clear that up alittle. I didn't really mean actuall boxing strikes, I meant boxing principles....I was just in a hurry and should've been more specific.
There are alot of little things boxing teaches that Wing Chun ignores because of it's strict and unwavering principles.
One such thing that I think all Wing Chun fighters would benefit from boxing is the bob and weave type defensive maneuvers.
This is something that added to your arsenal of wing chun parries will only decrease the likeliness of you getting hit in a fight.
Also boxing bobs and weaves put you in postitions for some really nice boxing strikes that seem uneffective to a wing chun fighter...things like the uppercut or hook punch. Both of these work quite nicely off of a bob and weave and with the wing chun pak sau added even work better.
I wish we all had live sattelite feed so I could show you actual moves online and ****...oh well maybe someday when things are more high tech this will be commonplace.
-jojitsu27

Sam
07-16-2000, 04:17 AM
Jojitsu27, Who said that Wing Chun Fut Sao in my case doesn't have movements that resemble bobbing and weaving. The difference is the back alinement, hollowing chest, circular,up&down and side to side movements. Most angular, circular, straight line punches, open hand, fingers, palm, knuckles,and claws are taught. Search deeper my friend and it is there.

Sam
07-16-2000, 04:27 AM
By the way the movements are done differently than boxings bob&weave because unlike boxing sport rules we worry about kicks, knees, and grappling therefore our movements have to be much more guarded and precise.

benny
07-17-2000, 07:56 AM
i think there is ground fighting in wc its just that the techniques that work standing up, because we use defection and not brute force, work even better on the ground with the opponent on top, and no offence to any students but i dont think wc should be proved good or bad on the merit( if any) of william cheung and emin boztepe. just my views
see ya
THE MORE YOU SWEAT IN PEACE
THE LESS YOU BLEED IN WAR

jojitsu27
07-17-2000, 11:06 AM
Sam,
What is your family style of Wing Chun? Because if it has bobbing/weaving in it like you claim I would like to see it?
I have been studying Wing Chun for 10 years and have never seen a style of Wing Chun yet that teaches evasion of strikes by upper body movement.

Benny,
You have made the fatal Wing Chun mistake.
You said, "techniques that work standing up, because we use defection and not brute force, work even better on the ground with the opponent on top".
You actually couldn't be any more wrong in this assumption.
Wing Chun techniques work very, very badly on the ground, because of the body positioning of you and your opponent.
Lets take for instance the situation where you have slipped on ice, or grease and your opponent is in the classical groundfighting position of the "mount", he is sitting astride your chest at a 90 degree angle to your horizontal body. He is striking down to your face. Because of this positioning he has range on your face, but your fists cannot reach his face. If you are really, really good a chi sau, you could theoretically chi sau for defense until he is tired of punching at your face, and I hope you realize how stupid that thought is.
You can strike at his upperbody, but you have only your chon choi, with no footwork or hip or shoulder power to back it up.
And being as Wing Chun has no postitioning reversals, techniques that teach how to get out from under the mount, you are basically screwed.
It takes specialized technique to get out of that special situation which is actually quite common in streetfighting situations and groundfighting.
And those are the things that Wing Chun is lacking. I could go on and on over hundreds of situations and positions that Wing Chun does not have the answer to.

It boils down to this....you Wing Chun brethren can keep your cups "full" with Wing Chun or you can continue in the martial arts with room in your proverbial "cup" to learn something from an outside source. You can remain stagnant and unchanging in your thinking and believe the Sifu who tells you Wing Chun has everything you need (of course crosstraining in a grappling style would effect his pocketbook!), or you can learn from the already proven battleground of Nhb where many long time Wing Chun fighters have been reduced to nothing by a grappler in a matter of minutes and often seconds. The choice is yours so I'm not going to harp on this any longer.
Truse me, someone who has studied Wing Chun a long time and has found no legitimate Wing Chun groundfighting. Crosstrain and save yourself the potentially life threatening situation of being beaten on the ground.
And remember I say all this not as an antagonist, but as a Wing Chun brother who really would like to see Wing Chun grow and incorporate more groundfighting techniques into the system.
-jojitsu27

DragonzRage
07-17-2000, 11:15 PM
benny,

I agree that you can't judge a style completely merely based on the performance of two individuals. After all, it is the practitioner and not the style. But I think that you can definitely evaluate certain aspects of a style by watching two of the style's best in actual combat. If you watch Roy Jones in action, you will definitely learn something about boxing. If you watch a Gracie fight, you will definitely learn certain things about Bjj. Now if you take Emin Boztepe (one of the reknowned Sifu Leung Ting's top students and top fighter of the Wing Tsun Organization) and take William Cheung (orginal disciple of Yip Man and considered by many to be one of, if not the, best Wing Chun man alive) and put them up against each other, you should definitely be able to evaluate certain aspects of wing chun. These aren't just casual practitioners or poor McDojo sifus, they are top authorities and experts in the art of Wing Chun. You can definitely judge from their performance the well roundedness and effectiveness of some wing chun strategies. Looking at how poorly they did, can anyone really say that wing chun techniques are very well rounded? If the top Wing Chun authorities in the world can't do jacksh!t on the ground then I'd say its pretty safe to assume that wing chun style is ill suited to deal with that kind of situation.

~Max

Sandman2[Wing Chun]
07-17-2000, 11:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jojitsu27:
Sam,
And being as Wing Chun has no postitioning reversals, techniques that teach how to get out from under the mount, you are basically screwed.
It takes specialized technique to get out of that special situation which is actually quite common in streetfighting situations and groundfighting.
And those are the things that Wing Chun is lacking. I could go on and on over hundreds of situations and positions that Wing Chun does not have the answer to.
-jojitsu27[/quote]


Man, you just gotta come down to our kwoon..... /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sandman[Wing Chun]

jojitsu27
07-17-2000, 11:57 PM
Sandman,
I will...I willl!
I replied to your last e-mail, I am really excited about what you are telling me about your system of Wing Chun!
If your sifu has any videotapes I will GLADLY purchase them!
I need to know where exactly your school is and all that stuff, also could you give me your sifu's e-mail address again?
Folks...if this is all true, then Sandman's Wing Chun he is learning has actually has real Wing Chun groundfighting techniques in it that are actually an originaly part of his style of Wing Chun, not borrowed from another groundfighting system. If this is so, it is awesome and is going to revolutionize modern Wing Chun!
Maybe we can actually start to compete effectively in NHB competition!
Keep in touch Sandman, I am excited about finding out more about your system and your school!
-jojitsu27

Buhma
07-18-2000, 12:08 AM
Sandman, I am also very interested in this. I am planning to take BJJ to supplement my Wc, but if what you say is true.. then I'd like to find out more about it and try to keep it within one style.

Hey Jojitsu, if you visit them, I'd like an honest critique of their methods on the ground.

Sandman2[Wing Chun]
07-18-2000, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jojitsu27:
Sandman,
If this is so, it is awesome and is going to revolutionize modern Wing Chun!
-jojitsu27[/quote]

Hehe, ya know, to be honest with you, I doubt it's that "revolutionary", I mean, I'm sure there's got to be others out there doing this sort of thing. Perhaps I'm just the only guy talking about it...besides, I'm personally skeptical of any claims at a "revolutionary new way" of doing things. That's why I do realistic traditional arts. /infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks!
Sandman[Wing Chun]

Sam
07-18-2000, 04:52 AM
Jojitsu, My lineage is Fut Sao Gu Yee Chuan Wing Chun Kuen from Leung Chi Man to James Cama. Our web site is www.buddhapalm.com (http://www.buddhapalm.com) As far as counters to the mount position or most any other hold we have many counter measures.

Sam
07-18-2000, 04:55 AM
Jojutsu27, Try www.buddhapalm.com (http://www.buddhapalm.com)
Sam

Sam
07-19-2000, 12:55 AM
jojitsu27, Fut Sao Gu Yee Chuan Wing Chun Kuen Of Leung Chi Man lineage as taught by James Cama has numerous counters to the mount position or any other grappling hold and from a strikers view. It also contains Chin Na and anti-grappling concepts. Do not judge all Wing Chun superficially. Visit our site at www.buddhapalm.com (http://www.buddhapalm.com)
Sam

jojitsu27
07-19-2000, 12:33 PM
Sam,
I visited your website and it is very cool!
I would love to get together with some Wing Chun brothers of your lineage!
Where is the closest school to my area?
I am in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Soon I will be done with a major project at work and will be able to travel more.
I would like to do some sort of research into Wing Chun groundfighting and try and compile all that I can find in that area.
Does your system offer any groundfighting video tapes?
E-mail me at jo_jitsu@hotmail if you can,
thanks,
jojitsu27