The Worst of the Worst: Training Myths Debunked

[Vash]

I'll start.

"Weight training is bad for martial arts. It decreases flexibility, makes you bulky, imbalanced, and slow."

Wrong. Proper weight training using programs and protocols fitting your training style, proper form in execution of the weight training exercises, and a lot of common sense will improve your flexibility and strength, explosiveness, strength, power, and endurance.

"Stance training is all I need to achieve [x]."

Wrong. Without a consistently changing stimulus, your body will cease to adapt, causing you to stagnate at a particular level.

"Tendons move the body, not the muscles."

Wrong. The tendons attach the muscles to the bones, allowing movement.

"You will learn all you need to know about the human body from martial practice, and not from medical examinations, tests, experiments, et al."

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. You will learn martial arts from martial practice. Not physiology and/or biology.

Now, here's where I get mean. If your instructor says "weight training is bad for martial arts" and gives any of the reasons I've noted, then he or she is wrong. If, however, the instructor says so and qualifies that statement with "there are many methods of weight training or exercises catalogued therein which should not be undertaken due to the amount of actual technical training we do," then the instructor is not wrong.

Those have I spoken, thus do it be.

[IronFist]

n/m, reply removed.

[IronFist]

Wait, here's another myth:

Your martial arts teacher actually knows something about weight training and/or physiology.

Well, there's probably a 1% chance that he actually does, but probably not, especially given what I hear a lot of on here:

"My Sifu says weightlifting will make you inflexible/you should punch with your tendons and not your muscles/squatting is bad for your knees/etc."

No disrespect to anyone's teacher. I'm just saying.

[Mo Lung]

Hey, we're not all like that! ;)

Here's another myth: Upper and lower. Nuff said. ;)

[spiraler]

heres another myth, if i lift weights and hit a punching bag and eat creatine and run on a treadmill, i can fight.wrong. heres another myth. sifus dont know what theyre talking about. wrong. these teachings are fighting traditions kept for generations. what works is what is kept, and added upon. you give so much credit to baby born sports like boxing and mma, yet these styles are preschool compared to the complexity and depth of any martial art. and im not talking about no fast food mc dojo. i mean some one who is a lineage holder or a disciple.go ahead and increase your strength by your conventional methods. it is all useless without knowledge and training in application and real fighting. which i doubt you have much.

[spiraler]

Wait, here's another myth:

Your martial arts teacher actually knows something about weight training and/or physiology.

Well, there's probably a 1% chance that he actually does, but probably not, especially given what I hear a lot of on here:

"My Sifu says weightlifting will make you inflexible/you should punch with your tendons and not your muscles/squatting is bad for your knees/etc."

No disrespect to anyone's teacher. I'm just saying.



weight training has been around for longer than you think. before dumbells and bench presses, buckets and bags filled with sand rocks, etc. were used. your opinion is totally wrong and you are extremely mislead. look at arnold schwarwhatever, he is not especially flexible, i do not know of any joint problems or arthritus he mightve had, but i do know all that muscle isnt really needed and isnt really functional in martial arts fighting. bruce lee was a martial artist and he also did weight training, but he did only special workouts that strengthened his functional strength, not so much for bulk or mass, which "slowed" him down. your tendons and ligaments work together to create force and speed, the muscles around them stabilize and reinforce the arm.

[spiraler]

I'll start.

"Weight training is bad for martial arts. It decreases flexibility, makes you bulky, imbalanced, and slow."

Wrong. Proper weight training using programs and protocols fitting your training style, proper form in execution of the weight training exercises, and a lot of common sense will improve your flexibility and strength, explosiveness, strength, power, and endurance.

"Stance training is all I need to achieve [x]."

Wrong. Without a consistently changing stimulus, your body will cease to adapt, causing you to stagnate at a particular level.

"Tendons move the body, not the muscles."

Wrong. The tendons attach the muscles to the bones, allowing movement.

"You will learn all you need to know about the human body from martial practice, and not from medical examinations, tests, experiments, et al."

Wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. You will learn martial arts from martial practice. Not physiology and/or biology.

Now, here's where I get mean. If your instructor says "weight training is bad for martial arts" and gives any of the reasons I've noted, then he or she is wrong. If, however, the instructor says so and qualifies that statement with "there are many methods of weight training or exercises catalogued therein which should not be undertaken due to the amount of actual technical training we do," then the instructor is not wrong.

Those have I spoken, thus do it be.



maybe you should challeng an instructer, do you think he would kick your asz? i bet he would... you know why? because he knows more about fighting than you do. so if he gives you some pointers, why not take some from somone who just kicked your asz?

[Samurai Jack]

your tendons and ligaments work together to create force and speed, the muscles around them stabilize and reinforce the arm.

That's the exact opposite of how ligaments and tendons work. Follow this link (http://bonsecourshamptonroads.greystone.net/Content.asp?PageID=P00926) to a medical article explaining the effect of an injury to the ligaments. Look at the picture. Now look at the second sentence in the first paragraph of the article which reads, "Ligaments are elastic bands of tissue that connect bones to each other and provide stability and strength to the joint."

Biologyonline's medical dictionary (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/tendon) tells us that a tendon is a " fibrous, strong, connective tissue that connects muscle to bone. " They then go on to say (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/skeletal_muscle), "A Skeletal Muscle (is)...a muscle that is connected at either or both ends to a bone and so move parts of the skeleton."

In other words, ligaments stabalize bones, tendons attach muscle to bones, and muscle moves bones. If a bone moves, your body moves; if a bone dosen't move, the body dosen't move.

The people who wrote these articles and definitions were probably not martial artists, and had no interest at all in this conversation. They are professional teachers, scientists, and medical doctors. They're an impartial source from a credible non-profit hospital and an important online medical dictionary. If you can prove them wrong with your own credible sources, I'll send you my next pay-check.

;)

[Vash]

Here's a quicky link. (http://www.exercisexpress.com/muscleormyth.htm)
That's the exact opposite of how ligaments and tendons work. Follow this link (http://bonsecourshamptonroads.greystone.net/Content.asp?PageID=P00926) to a medical article explaining the effect of an injury to the ligaments. Look at the picture. Now look at the second sentence in the first paragraph of the article which reads, "Ligaments are elastic bands of tissue that connect bones to each other and provide stability and strength to the joint."

Biologyonline's medical dictionary (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/tendon) tells us that a tendon is a " fibrous, strong, connective tissue that connects muscle to bone. " They then go on to say (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/skeletal_muscle), "A Skeletal Muscle (is)...a muscle that is connected at either or both ends to a bone and so move parts of the skeleton."

In other words, ligaments stabalize bones, tendons attach muscle to bones, and muscle moves bones. If a bone moves, your body moves; if a bone doesn't move, the body dosen't move.

The people who wrote these articles and definitions were probably not martial artists, and had no interest at all in this conversation. They are professional teachers, scientists, and medical doctors. They're an impartial source from a credible non-profit hospital and an important online medical dictionary. If you can prove them wrong with your own credible sources, I'll send you my next pay-check.

;)

SJ is absolutely correct.

Spiraler, you are absolutely wrong. If you feel you are not, please provide one [1] {uno} researched source for your information. Hell, it can be from a martial arts instructor, so long as he or she cites some information as reliable as Samurai Jack's.

Oooh, another myth (thanks Mo): There are Upper and Lower sections of the Rectus Abdominus."

Wrong. Here's a quicky link (http://www.exercisexpress.com/muscleormyth.htm)

[Vash]

maybe you should challeng an instructer, do you think he would kick your asz? i bet he would... you know why? because he knows more about fighting than you do. so if he gives you some pointers, why not take some from somone who just kicked your asz?

Actually, I'd love to. There are three schools in my area - my own, a korean style (I want to say MDK or TSD or somesuch) - instructor is very cool and exceptionally skillled. And though not h00j, very strong, and an ATA TKD school. The ATA is the only one which I don't respect, and I would love to have a nice session o' fisticuffs with the instructors. Unfortunately, they do not espouse their teachings as "fight oriented." Instead, they are "morale builders." Or something. I started to drool when they opened their mouths.

But, back to the myths.

There are olden-tyme martial arts masters who could not pick up bowling balls but could hurl young men across rooms.

I call BS. The only "olden-tyme" "masters" I've heard of who carry any type of general respectability were those of sound body and technique. What good is the ability to defend oneself if the body is too weak to carry out daily tasks?

The body is not a fragile thing. It is built for adversity. If it does not encounter such, it atrophies.

[FooFighter]

1. The belief that weight training is bad for martial arts and that it will decrease flexibility, makes you bulky, imbalanced, and slow is true if you are a bodybuilder which is what most people including old school MA instructors think of when think of "lifting weights". However, periodization of strength conditioning in my opinion is good for athletes as well for martial artists. I do not blame MA instructors who not recommend "bodybuilding" for their students.

2. Mabu aka the horse stance training is the foundation to any traditional based martial arts and of course this is not the only thing that is needed in attaining good gung fu. However, I believe too many people do not have the time nor patience to seriously refine the fundamentals like in the old days. Moreover from my own personal observation, many modern martial artists have weak horses even those some can squat XXX amount of XXX reps when compare to their seniors or sibaks.

3. There is a new paradigm of looking at structure which believes that it is not tendons that is attached to muscles that allows movements, but myofasica. This is quite a radical paradigm shift and you can research more on this subject please read Buckminster Fullers' body of work, Thomas W. Myers who wrote "Anatomy Trains: Myofasial Merdians for Manual and Movement Therapists," and or check out Scott Sonnon's "Integrating Structure" DVD.

4. If I want to learn to fight only than I guess all I do need to know about the human body may come from martial practice and fighting. A fighter doesnt need to know why the body works because that is not their job. They only needs to how to make it work and how to make their techniques work under real time and space. Moreover if I wanted to learn to be a coach, instructor, or trainer, then I would it would be wise and intelligent to get knowledge through studying science.

You sounded too absolute and harsh and I am only trying to per haps show that there are reasons beyond obvious results.

[AndrewS]

spiraler 'writes':


heres another myth, if i lift weights and hit a punching bag and eat creatine and run on a treadmill, i can fight.wrong. heres another myth. sifus dont know what theyre talking about. wrong. these teachings are fighting traditions kept for generations. what works is what is kept, and added upon. you give so much credit to baby born sports like boxing and mma, yet these styles are preschool compared to the complexity and depth of any martial art. and im not talking about no fast food mc dojo. i mean some one who is a lineage holder or a disciple.go ahead and increase your strength by your conventional methods. it is all useless without knowledge and training in application and real fighting. which i doubt you have much.

maybe you should challeng an instructer, do you think he would kick your asz? i bet he would... you know why? because he knows more about fighting than you do. so if he gives you some pointers, why not take some from somone who just kicked your asz?

Funny, every teacher I've known who could fight has hit stuff and done cardio, and encouraged their students to do so. In fact, I would say I have never heard of a school with a fighting reputation that does not do those things, whether it be Thai boxing, Xing Yi, Wing Chun, Shaolin, or Escrima.

As to the instructor thing- umm, while I try not to make a point of it, I *am* an instructor, owned and ran a school for a while, have taught for years, and I'm by no stretch the senior one lurking around here.

How old are you kid? And who do you think you're talking to?

Andrew

[Vash]

1. The belief that weight training is bad for martial arts and that it will decrease flexibility, makes you bulky, imbalanced, and slow is true if you are a bodybuilder which is what most people including old school MA instructors think of when think of "lifting weights". However, periodization of strength conditioning in my opinion is good for athletes as well for martial artists. I do not blame MA instructors who not recommend "bodybuilding" for their students.

Indeed. However, when an instructor dismisses out of hand weight training based upon these notions, that is tantamount to lying. A trainer, instructor, or anyone involved in the physical culture should be constantly reevaluating the science and reasoning behind everything he or she does.

As for periodization, I would take it a step further and say it is absolutely essential. The need to plan the weight training around the technical training is an absolute.


2. Mabu aka the horse stance training is the foundation to any traditional based martial arts and of course this is not the only thing that is needed in attaining good gung fu. However, I believe too many people do not have the time nor patience to seriously refine the fundamentals like in the old days. Moreover from my own personal observation, many modern martial artists have weak horses even those some can squat XXX amount of XXX reps when compare to their seniors or sibaks.

Coming from a karate background, I will admit what I know of horse stance as relates to training has been gleamed from oral and written sources only, not actual practice.

I've heard several reasons for it's practice: learning to sink the bodyweight, training to overcome physical discomfort, to learn to generate power more efficiently, and to learn patience. Now, some of these I agree with, others I do not. However, if this practice is recommended as a complete substitution for non-technical resistance training, then I call BS.


3. There is a new paradigm of looking at structure which believes that it is not tendons that is attached to muscles that allows movements, but myofasica. This is quite a radical paradigm shift and you can research more on this subject please read Buckminster Fullers' body of work, Thomas W. Myers who wrote "Anatomy Trains: Myofasial Merdians for Manual and Movement Therapists," and or check out Scott Sonnon's "Integrating Structure" DVD.

I've yet to read the aforementioned book, but have heard great things about it. And I'm always chomping at the bit for new physiological knowledge.

Looking forward to Ford Prefect's book, too. That is going to roxors boxors.


4. If I want to learn to fight only than I guess all I do need to know about the human body may come from martial practice and fighting. A fighter doesnt need to know why the body works because that is not their job. They only needs to how to make it work and how to make their techniques work under real time and space. Moreover if I wanted to learn to be a coach, instructor, or trainer, then I would it would be wise and intelligent to get knowledge through studying science.

Indeed. However, I've yet to speak with an athlete or martial artist who didn't explore to some depth the nature of the body which they use.

Except, of course, for those who know teh deadly.


You sounded too absolute and harsh and I am only trying to perhaps show that there are reasons beyond obvious results.

Indeed. I am, though, a believer in absolutes and harshness. There is a right way to do things and there is a wrong way, and there are the middle paths - the less than best. And because of willful ignorance based upon stale dogma and intellectual laziness, many people already hip-deep in physicality are being drawn away from an exceptionally powerful and helpful tool which would enhance every area of their lives.

[spiraler]

That's the exact opposite of how ligaments and tendons work. Follow this link (http://bonsecourshamptonroads.greystone.net/Content.asp?PageID=P00926) to a medical article explaining the effect of an injury to the ligaments. Look at the picture. Now look at the second sentence in the first paragraph of the article which reads, "Ligaments are elastic bands of tissue that connect bones to each other and provide stability and strength to the joint."

Biologyonline's medical dictionary (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/tendon) tells us that a tendon is a " fibrous, strong, connective tissue that connects muscle to bone. " They then go on to say (http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/skeletal_muscle), "A Skeletal Muscle (is)...a muscle that is connected at either or both ends to a bone and so move parts of the skeleton."

In other words, ligaments stabalize bones, tendons attach muscle to bones, and muscle moves bones. If a bone moves, your body moves; if a bone dosen't move, the body dosen't move.

The people who wrote these articles and definitions were probably not martial artists, and had no interest at all in this conversation. They are professional teachers, scientists, and medical doctors. They're an impartial source from a credible non-profit hospital and an important online medical dictionary. If you can prove them wrong with your own credible sources, I'll send you my next pay-check.

;)


to be honest i dont really give a shi*

[spiraler]

spiraler 'writes':



Funny, every teacher I've known who could fight has hit stuff and done cardio, and encouraged their students to do so. In fact, I would say I have never heard of a school with a fighting reputation that does not do those things, whether it be Thai boxing, Xing Yi, Wing Chun, Shaolin, or Escrima.

As to the instructor thing- umm, while I try not to make a point of it, I *am* an instructor, owned and ran a school for a while, have taught for years, and I'm by no stretch the senior one lurking around here.

How old are you kid? And who do you think you're talking to?

Andrew

okay mister instructor. for the record im 20, ive been in countless street fights, and ill tell you this "sir" hitting a bag, runnung bla bla bla will help you learn, but nothing can substitute the knowledge and experience you gain from a real or simulated fight. that was the point that i was trying to make..."sir". :eek: and i dont know who youre calling kid. id slap you if you said that to my face.

[spiraler]

Coming from a karate background, I will admit what I know of horse stance as relates to training has been gleamed from oral and written sources only, not actual practice.I've heard several reasons for it's practice: learning to sink the bodyweight, training to overcome physical discomfort, to learn to generate power more efficiently, and to learn patience. Now, some of these I agree with, others I do not. However, if this practice is recommended as a complete substitution for non-technical resistance training, then I call BS.


i on the other hand have actually suffered and still do to this day rigorous stance training sets that usually last about an hour and a half, plus i DONT have an INSTRUCTOR to keep me in line, it is solely out of my dedication and appreciation for stance training and how it has improved my performance in fighting and health. maybe if you trained as hard as i did you would feel the same way,lastly, you are in no position to be judging something that youn know nothing about, dont you think?

[Reggie1]

for the record im 20, ive been in countless street fights, and ill tell you this "sir" hitting a bag, runnung bla bla bla will help you learn

Hey, Enforcer / Strangler is back! Welcome back! ;)

[spiraler]

Hey, Enforcer / Strangler is back! Welcome back! ;)



?????????????? :confused:

[Reggie1]

?????????????? :confused:

You just remind me of somebody.

[fa_jing]

"you are in no position to be judging something that youn know nothing about"

you mean like you and weightlifting?

[WinterPalm]

Hello, my Sifu has a university degree in biology, has studied martial arts for over thirty years, is a lineage holder and is not someone I would ever mess with. He has told me I can weight train if I want, but that it doesn't add much to the kung fu practice and may disrupt some of hte training. Seeing as how the style he teaches is very systematic and comprehensive, I, as I learn more, see less and less of a reason to weight train. A complete martial art will cover the necessary strengthing requirements for combat. IF you desire something else then you should weight train.
Kung fu is very complete, it covers your whole body and trains it in a unison, many weight lifting exercises are single joint or closed chain exercises that incorporate very little complete body action.
I find that if your kung fu is lacking, then you either need to train harder or find another style, but at least give it some time to blossom because you may find that the grass is not always greener...

[spiraler]

"you are in no position to be judging something that youn know nothing about"

you mean like you and weightlifting?


i know more about weight lifting then most do about martial arts in comparison, i weigh about 145 and yesterday i did a clean and jerk with about 130, id say you need a decent amount of weightlifting knowlrdge to pull that off, no?

[red5angel]

i know more about weight lifting then most do about martial arts in comparison, i weigh about 145 and yesterday i did a clean and jerk with about 130, id say you need a decent amount of weightlifting knowlrdge to pull that off, no?


but was that with or without using your Qi?

[ewallace]

Dude don't even bother arguing with spiraler. He has been corrected by us all and will hate us forever.

[spiraler]

im not to sure when im actually using qi, i can only feel it when i meditate on it,though it doesnt make me noticeably stronger, i dont really know how to apply it just yet for fighting.

[spiraler]

Dude don't even bother arguing with spiraler. He has been corrected by us all and will hate us forever.


that was actually quite funny.

[fa_jing]

i know more about weight lifting then most do about martial arts in comparison, i weigh about 145 and yesterday i did a clean and jerk with about 130, id say you need a decent amount of weightlifting knowlrdge to pull that off, no?

I'd consider myself an intermediate lifter, with intermediate knowledge. I can Clean and Jerk about 10% over my bodyweight, with no formal training. You are making blanket statements about weightlifting. Enough to imply that you know more than experts in the subject. You should have come here with an open mind and learned about other people's points of view and experiences, instead of coming here and trying to lecture us.

Here's lesson one: weightlifting <> bodybuilding. Using Arnold S. as an example, and I mean no disrespect to him, shows that you don't understand lesson one. Lesson one is not debatable. Once we agree on this then discussion can proceed.

[spiraler]

when did i ever imply i knew anything about weightlifting? i said i knew enough to do a clean and jerk with 130 pounds, something that ive never done before, and judging by how easy it was, i would probably be able to lift over 10% of my bodyweight also, and whos lecturing? im simply stating my opinion, if you do not agree, then we can argue if you like. thats the beauty of this forum.

[spiraler]

I'd consider myself an intermediate lifter, with intermediate knowledge. I can Clean and Jerk about 10% over my bodyweight, with no formal training. You are making blanket statements about weightlifting. Enough to imply that you know more than experts in the subject. You should have come here with an open mind and learned about other people's points of view and experiences, instead of coming here and trying to lecture us.

Here's lesson one: weightlifting <> bodybuilding. Using Arnold S. as an example, and I mean no disrespect to him, shows that you don't understand lesson one. Lesson one is not debatable. Once we agree on this then discussion can proceed.


well he was mr olympia.... isnt that what you muscle heads strive to achieve, one more thing, do you believe in the use of anabolic steroids

[spiraler]

i would love to hear any info or advice that you can give me, i doubt that it will be anything thaT I DONT KNOW ALREADY THOUGH, THERE ISNT MUCH TO WEIGHTLIFTING AND PHYSIOLOGY BESIDES COMMON SENSE AND BODY AWARENESS

[AndrewS]

Spiraler 'writes':


okay mister instructor. for the record im 20, ive been in countless street fights, and ill tell you this "sir" hitting a bag, runnung bla bla bla will help you learn, but nothing can substitute the knowledge and experience you gain from a real or simulated fight.


Ah, so that's what this meant?


heres another myth, if i lift weights and hit a punching bag and eat creatine and run on a treadmill, i can fight.wrong.

In case you failed to notice, this this the Strength and Conditioning forum. These things are necessary forms of S&C for fighting (well, not the creatine, though the recovery is sweet).


that was the point that i was trying to make..."sir". and i dont know who youre calling kid. id slap you if you said that to my face.


That would be true f*ckin' comedy.

Go to Bullshido little troll-boy, go. . .

Andrew

[spiraler]

Spiraler 'writes':



Ah, so that's what this meant?



In case you failed to notice, this this the Strength and Conditioning forum. These things are necessary forms of S&C for fighting (well, not the creatine, though the recovery is sweet).



That would be true f*ckin' comedy.

Go to Bullshido little troll-boy, go. . .

Andrew


you fit the description of troll better. tell me "sir" have you ever been in a real fight? i bet you havent,(no im not talking elementary school). why did you take up ma? cuz you were scared? i bet. getting jacked by the local gangsters i bet, probably because you thought you were cool because you know "karate". and for the record, i dont think you know a goddam thing about martial arts let alone been an instructor "sir"so you could save your little 2 bit remarks. "sir". ps ill whoop your old asz. pps, keep it up with the plyos....... girlie.

[Vash]

Though I had intended this thread as partial troll bait, I had also the purpose of using it to help give a bit more exposure of proper resistance training to the more sheltered or less experienced.

To do this, it is often necessary to sacrifice the trolls and the adamantly ignorant [who tend to state that they don't care if they're right or wrong] to bring about a more correct season.

Spiraler, I had thought you another "internalist" who despised weight training because of inhereted dogma from your instructor. I was wrong.

You are a willful troll who seeks only to propagate your strange belief system in a destructive and purposefully distracting manner.

If anyone thinks there was anything of value in the thread, go ahead and copy it. I'm going to delete this thread here in a minute or three. Though I am fond of the occassional troll, allowing it to grow this much is irresponsible.

[spiraler]

ummm.......you suck dude.and........oh yeah, you swallow too. *otot* *poot* oh yeah... and youre a cumquat, and for the record.......I AM THE EVIL AKUMA.

[IronFist]

^ Banned.

123456

[spiraler]

cumquat^......

[spiraler]

godam ironfist, you get on my FREAKIN NERVES!!!!!!!

[IronFist]

btw, progress is largely dependent upon genetics. Your muscles don't care what your mind knows. Joe Schmoe who happens to have good genes for strength could never know anything about physiology and still outlift Dr. John Doe who knows everything.

Some of us with less than ideal genetics want to learn everything we can to give us every possible edge.

Again, you demonstrate a lack of critical thinking ability.

At any rate, this is why accomplishments are not indicative of strength. If Mr. Olympia talks about training his upper or lower abs he's still wrong, even if he's Mr. Olympia.

[IronFist]

godam ironfist, you get on my FREAKIN NERVES!!!!!!!

Yeah, I get annoyed when I'm proven wrong again and again, too.

[spiraler]

btw, progress is largely dependent upon genetics. Your muscles don't care what your mind knows. Joe Schmoe who happens to have good genes for strength could never know anything about physiology and still outlift Dr. John Doe who knows everything.

Some of us with less than ideal genetics want to learn everything we can to give us every possible edge.

Again, you demonstrate a lack of critical thinking ability.

At any rate, this is why accomplishments are not indicative of strength. If Mr. Olympia talks about training his upper or lower abs he's still wrong, even if he's Mr. Olympia.


man....you and your annoying asz scientific bull, someday youre great scientific system is gonna end up blowing up in your face. MARTIAL ARTS IS MORE THAN PUMPING IRON! FOR GODS SAKE!you tell me who beatkent shamrocks asz? royce gracie, puny... weak ...skinny...immensly skilled martial artist...yeeeaaah, whacha got to say about that, iron twig?

[spiraler]

Yeah, I get annoyed when I'm proven wrong again and again, too.




i dont really give a flying pigdoo about weightlifting. so that doesnt really bother me much.

[IronFist]

Your reading and comprehension skills amaze me.

[spiraler]

ha! still aint got nuttin better to say huh?

[Toby]

The last person who came on here with such an abrasive attitude was universally hated by everyone but one other troll. You've obviously decided to tread the same path. This forum doesn't really tolerate trolls so much. There are lots of intelligent people who like to debate things rationally. A much higher signal-to-noise ratio than some other forums around the place. If you'd have been a little more respectful and logical in your arguing, you might have enjoyed some reasonable discussion. As it stands, it's probably too late for you. If you still want reasonable discussion, I'd suggest creating a new persona.

[spiraler]

okay. this is why everyone as you say would hate me if they do. 1. i have said something that they do not understand therefore they fear me (or my beliefs), in result they they dislike my opinion. 2. they cannot handle my sense of humor.(many cant.) 3. they have disrespected me, and in turn have been disrespected.(its not violence, but its vengeance.)4.we have argued/disagreed.5. they are sensitve little girly men that the governator of california TERMINATES.
6.i have insulted their experience in martial arts because of the stupid **** they say, then claim to be masters, role models, teachers...(first impressions are a *****.)7.they are people who just like to instigate and point fingers and say"oooohhhh" when you say something even minutely offensive or defensive for that matter. 8/ the story goes on, who wouyld like me to continue? no one....? yeah thats what i thought. uh oh, you guys are really gonna be mad at me now. im soooooo scaaaarrrreeeddd!!!!!>? i think i just peed myself....and i just peed myself seee....karate is teh deadly, whatever the **** that means.

[IronFist]

Actually, the only reason anyone gave you crap is because what you presented as fact was wrong.

No one here cares if you have an opinion, or what your style is, and most people won't even care about your poor grammar. But presenting as fact something that is false will not go over well. It's even ok (and encouraged) if you want to have a discussion about something. Maybe you will learn something. Maybe we will learn something. But randomly spouting off opinions and ideas as fact, especially when members here can refute what you say with documented proof, is not going to go over well.

This is a discussion forum. We're here to learn and help each other. If you think your qi is helping you clean and jerk lots of weight, then let's discuss it. Just don't have a bad attitude and you'll be treated nicely. Otherwise you'll probably be banned. It's happened before.

[spiraler]

what exactly was i wrong about? is it the weight lifting stuff? okay so you got me there and i admitted it. so what. that is all i was wrong about, nothing else.

mr attitude, spiraler

[Vash]

Here's the thing:

Unless you go about completely reinventing yourself, you'll receive the same amount of respect you've dulled out during your brief stay.

Apologizing to the many instructors whom you've insulted would probably be a good start.

Hint: I ain't one of them.

[Mo Lung]

okay. this is why everyone as you say would hate me if they do. 1. i have said something that they do not understand therefore they fear me (or my beliefs), in result they they dislike my opinion. 2. they cannot handle my sense of humor.(many cant.) 3. they have disrespected me, and in turn have been disrespected.(its not violence, but its vengeance.)4.we have argued/disagreed.5. they are sensitve little girly men that the governator of california TERMINATES.
6.i have insulted their experience in martial arts because of the stupid **** they say, then claim to be masters, role models, teachers...(first impressions are a *****.)7.they are people who just like to instigate and point fingers and say"oooohhhh" when you say something even minutely offensive or defensive for that matter. 8/ the story goes on, who wouyld like me to continue? no one....? yeah thats what i thought. uh oh, you guys are really gonna be mad at me now. im soooooo scaaaarrrreeeddd!!!!!>? i think i just peed myself....and i just peed myself seee....karate is teh deadly, whatever the **** that means.Ah, man, this guy is a classic. I'm sensing Extrodinaire here....

[Mi Hou Tao]

Big Boy spiraler,
youve been in numerous street fights, can lift xxx amount of weight, do your horse stance for xxx amount of time, and can woop, xxx's ass,
and your only 20???
did the idea ever occur to you that perhaps there are people out there twice your age, that have been in twice as many street fights as you, can lift twice as much as you, can do horse stance twice as long as you, and can woop twice as many peoples asses as you?
and did it ever occur to you that perhaps people like this may be on this forum,
and that you may be able to learn something from them...
i guess not...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

this guy makes me miss rolls.

[Merryprankster]

Wow, when you put spiraler on ignore, the thread display length goes down a lot.

Much less to read!

[Ford Prefect]

I need to start visitting this forum more. This thread is hilarious.

[ewallace]

It appears spiraler has been banned from the forum. What a shame. I was starting to learn about all the myths about training. :rolleyes:

[Reggie1]

That's a shame. I'm going to miss Ego/Enforcer/Strangler/spiraler.

[WinterPalm]

I would have to disagree with you Toby. This forum, as far as I can tell, is more lienent that any other I've ever seen! That is why the quality of posters is so low and why many real martial artists don't bother coming here because people like spiraler are tolerated for so long!!

[Samurai Jack]

I don't know. Seems like things are shaping up to me. Spiraler was banned two weeks after joining. That's gotta be some kind of record.

[ewallace]

I would have to disagree with you Toby. This forum, as far as I can tell, is more lienent that any other I've ever seen! That is why the quality of posters is so low and why many real martial artists don't bother coming here because people like spiraler are tolerated for so long!!
Could you tell me what you believe to be "real martial artists"?

BTW, no offense is meant by this question. I am just curious as to what you define as a real martial artist.

[Toby]

I would have to disagree with you Toby. This forum, as far as I can tell, is more lienent that any other I've ever seen! That is why the quality of posters is so low and why many real martial artists don't bother coming here because people like spiraler are tolerated for so long!!Yeah, rub's pretty lenient, but this forum attracts pretty good people. Far less noise than the main forum or the WC forum. The training forum tends to self-moderate to a degree. In my time here the only real disruption was Eyebrows (and subsequently Ego). This guy is a minor hiccup in comparison. All in all we tend to have very constructive discussion and high level arguing - people post opinions and often back them up with references. Things can get heated, but there's a level of respect. On this thread alone there are several posters whose opinions I value very highly.