Wah lum Kung fu

[Judo_iaidoka]

I want to do kung fu but the only place near me is Wah Lum, Ive read this forum and heard some bad things I was wondering what you could suggest to me about takeing this. Also what does wah lum do as far as training, do they use the stuff they use in forms in sparring and application or is it just for conditioning.

[BeiTangLang]

If you are honest in your request, the best place for you to find these answers is at the place you are looking at training at rather than an internet forum.
Best wishes in your search for answers,
~BTL

[mantid1]

Where are you located?

[Judo_iaidoka]

Its wah lum kung fu and tai chi of melbourne. Ill probly go this coming monday to sign up, I have had friends who have done it and were happy but i was wondering about it after I read things on this forum.

[mantid1]

That Instructor is a great guy. Just let him know what you are looking for in the arts. Be specific. He will tell you if he does not think you will be happy at his school.

I would not base your decision on what you have read on a forum.

I have seen other intructors (not wah lum) attacked on the same forum. I know the claims are not true and would love to train with them. If I went by the negative it would have closed alot of vauble doors for me.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I spent 12 years in the Wah Lum system and the instructor, Harry Lo, is an excellent and knowledgable teacher. They have a good student base and excellent assistants.. and, you are very close to Wah Lum's headquarters and G'Master Chan Pui.. as BeiTangLang said, go there for the answers.. opinions here can be prejudiced by many factors.. there was much about the system i found to be superior, and some things deficient.. like all things, Yin AND Yang.

Be well..

[yu shan]

Shifu Harry Lo is a good man. I suggest you watch some of his classes, get a feel for the atmosphere of his school and make your decision. If it were me, I would gladly train with Shifu Lo.

[Three Harmonies]

I just recently took on one of Mr. Lo's ex-students (ex only because he was stationed here), and he is quite sound in his basics! Check the place out get a feel.

Jake :D

[Judo_iaidoka]

I called them today and am going to see a class on monday, The only thing that worried me is the lady said it was 80 a month for classes. Ive been doing japanese Ma Judo,aikido, and iaido under one roof with diff instructors for 45 a month and to me the 80 sounded a bit steep, or is this normal in CMA.

[mantid1]

That all depends on the area you live in. $80 is very cheap compared to many schools out there. I think it is a very good price. Did I mention that I charge $80 a month myself? :)


Many traditional Chinese arts do not use the colored belt system. I do not either. I figured out this morning that I make about $12,000 - $16,000 a year less with my current number of students than the local Korean Karate schools because I do not do this type of testing. I have considered teaching Korean Karate to the masses and just teach mantis to a few core students. Some day I may just have to go for the cash, that is what people want anyway, a "black belt".

You also have to consider the amount and quality of information you will get compared to othe styles. Mantis has alot to offer.

[Judo_iaidoka]

Yea I will probly pay it since ive always wanted to do CMA, mabye you get what you pay for sometimes? The question I have to ask is why does wah lum not use the techniques they learn in forms during their sparring sessions cause I have a friend from a while back who did it and told me about it, he said the forms were for conditioning and that they kind of did kick boxing in sparring, Ive read on here though that some styles use techniques from the forms in sparring so im kind of confused as to why they dont. Mabye they do and my friend was just too new to understand how they do, not sure can anyone comment on this?

[yu shan]

I think $80 is reasonable for what you will be learning. Joining WL opens many doors. You will learn forms two-person forms weapons two-man weapons lion dance and fighting. One of the attributes to signing on with WL, is being apart of their KF family, and you will be close to the Temple. It was a very nice feeling to me to be envolved with this style at one time. I learned so very much, and will always be grateful. I have moved on to study elsewhere. I charge $75 a month for 32 hours of class time. I feel this is a bargain for what my students are learning. The treasures we are learning... are priceless!!!

One part of this sash thing, I really liked WL way of testing. Made alot of sense to me. No color system, everyone wore black sashes. The levels of testing were fair....but tuff as nails. You had to know your stuff.

It has made me ill to see what other styles teach for the $. For instance TKD, in my eyes a crap sytle! But people pay mucho dinero to learn this puke stuff. I guess laziness and/or ignorance and lets not forget the esteem thing. TKD kicking peices of paper or the advanced techs of Mantis Boxing...OK I`ll shut up! ;)

[mantid1]

You have to realize that most of the techniques in the forms are very effective for the street. Things like eye gouges, stiking directly to the joints and take downs. In reality you could let students go "light contact" to the joints, but if you owned the business do you think you would risk the law suites? There are to many hot shots out there who want to prove themselves.

The two man sets are very good for these types of situations since they are pre arranged sequences, but still give you the timing and general concept of these more aggressive techniques.

I personally think that solo forms, two person exercises and forms, grappling, and moderate to full contact fighting (san shou) should be taught. I do not and will not teach light contact sparring. When we do these exercises I call it "tag" because that is what it really is. It does serve a purpose. I have found that most of the hot shots out to prove themselves it the light contact do not want anything to do with the sparring where "they" actually get hit :)

For legal reasons many people only teach the light contact. I do not blame them. So with the partner sets and the light contact you should bet the idea.

I agree with Yushan, an experience in a Traditional Praying Mantis system is Gold, pure Gold.

[Judo_iaidoka]

Thanks for the reply. My friend did show me one of the self defense applications he learned involving a joint lock which was very simple and effective from wah lum, but it might be in all mantis I guess. I did tkd 6 years ago for about 6 months I was quite good at the forms and was really good at sparring because my instructor was an ex boxer and sparred alot in our class, but even at 11 I was questioning why I was learning forms when none of it could be used in tkd sparring besides the kicks, I suppose the forms were just for conditioning almost. The tkd I did wasnt a complete rip off because I had a good instructor but the actual stuff that was to do with the organization and its merchandise such as the belts,videos, and testing fees I feel were a rip off so I went to aikido. As far as testing goes in Wah lum what ranks do they have you test for? Also I have to ask after visiting many sites about Wah lum whats with all the lion dancing? Another thing I noticed was the fact that they do Iron palm training, this sounds very interesting, how long typically should you do regular class before you get involved with iron palm training or does the sifu usually select who does it?

[isol8d]

Wah Lum of Melbourne has an incredible drum team. I saw them last year at Nick Scrima's tournament. Their show was a little long, but still awesome.

What are you looking for out of training in martial arts?

[SaMantis]

Hi judi_aidoka,

You don't test for ranks per se at WL, but there are levels that you test for with a specific set of requirements for each. Like yu shan says, there are no colored sashes, everyone wears a black sash. IME this fosters respect for each other because you never know from just looking at a person how skilled/unskilled he is. As far as the specifics of the testing, when you sign up you receive a student handbook that explains a lot of that (and includes some test questions that you'll have to answer at various levels).

The lion dancing is an inherent part of many CMA schools. Very much a tradition. I encourage you to check out lion dancing at Chinese New Year even if you don't join Wah Lum, it's a very demanding skill.

Iron palm is a specific training technique that takes a lot of time and dedication. Sifus will usually select a student who has demonstrated that he has the dedication it takes to undergo the training. Of course, you can mention to the sifu that you are interested in learning iron palm. But in any traditional system you may train for quite awhile (years) before the sifu decides you're ready for iron palm.

[Judo_iaidoka]

Yea i signed up for classes, Ive taken one already learnt i-bay to horse stance to sow, It was a little uncomfortable but first classes always are especially if your already stressed out from work prior, felt better after the class though.

[Judo_iaidoka]

One last thing I thought of, if jut sow is a southern praying mantis style and the main axis so to speak of wah lum and tam tui is I assume only a small part of wah lum, why is wah lum considered a northern style?

[mantid1]

"Jut Sow" is a northern mantis system. Tan Tui is considered northern. This makes Wah Lum Northern Mantis.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

As far as learning the basics and getting a good foundation wah lum is a good place to go: it's one of the reason's chan's school system is so successful. you will get a knowledge base vastly superior than most of the smaller schools.

wah lum is the bread-n-butter school of cma without a doubt. many of the forms i perform they do also, they just don't do them the same way.

[Frogman]

Welcome to Wah Lum and NPM. Sifu Harry Lo is a top WL Sifu, he has an awesome school and demo team. I wish you good luck in your training.

RibHit
fm
:)

[Brad]

One last thing I thought of, if jut sow is a southern praying mantis style and the main axis so to speak of wah lum and tam tui is I assume only a small part of wah lum, why is wah lum considered a northern style?
I think a lot of outsiders consider Wah Lum to be a north/south combo style. I remember awhile ago someone mentioned the villiage where Wah Lum was popular also had a strong southern style presence (Mok Gar I think?). Not sure if he actually knew what he was talking about though or if this was just some unsubstantiated pet theory.

[shuaichiao]

I think a lot of outsiders consider Wah Lum to be a north/south combo style. I remember awhile ago someone mentioned the villiage where Wah Lum was popular also had a strong southern style presence (Mok Gar I think?). Not sure if he actually knew what he was talking about though or if this was just some unsubstantiated pet theory.

That's true. There is mok gar, hung fut and a few other styles mixed in. I think when I studied Wah Lum my sifu told me there were like 18 different styles that made up Wah Lum. I know many of thier weapons forms are southern influenced.

[Brad]

Anyway, as an outsider in a city with a strong Wah Lum presence, Wah Lum is an excellent school for developing strong basics (stances, strong kicks & punches, and overall athleticism). It's the sort of place I'd defenitely recomend for beginers.

Northern/Southern descriptions don't allways tell you much about a style, so my advice is to not get all caught up in that part... Wah Lum is Wah Lum ;)

[Judge Pen]

I've heard Wah Lum described as more of a southern Longfist heavily influenced by northern mantis. Mok Gar was Pui Chan's family's style, no?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I'm pretty sure wah lum is the style of his decendants. and i thought his entire ma experience was with Iyip: he was there for some fourty years....

Iyip's full recipe is not limited to this:
Mih Men/Mih Hua, Shaoi Jiao, and Fen Shen as the three primaries
Ji Yaw, Bor Yuan, Tzeuy, Tong Bei, Hong, drunken, and mantis as flavourings
with a heavy dose of wing chun and choy li fut.

out of which Chan utilized the mantis flavoured combined elements of the above styles with a healthy dose of wing chun.

there has been some arguement elsewhere about Mok Gar being utilized as the stylistic fore runner to wing chun when observed with iron thread.

[shuaichiao]

Mok gar was the mok families family style, but yes that was what the chan family was practising before Lee Kwan Shun brought Wah Lum to thier village. There are only a handful of actual Wah Lum forms. They are jut sow tong long hands mixed with tam tui legs. The rest of the forms they have were adapted to wah lum from the various styles that were practised in and around thier village. I've never heard of Iyip before.

[SaMantis]

I'm pretty sure wah lum is the style of his decendants. and i thought his entire ma experience was with Iyip: he was there for some fourty years....

Iyip's full recipe is not limited to this:
Mih Men/Mih Hua, Shaoi Jiao, and Fen Shen as the three primaries
Ji Yaw, Bor Yuan, Tzeuy, Tong Bei, Hong, drunken, and mantis as flavourings
with a heavy dose of wing chun and choy li fut.

out of which Chan utilized the mantis flavoured combined elements of the above styles with a healthy dose of wing chun.

there has been some arguement elsewhere about Mok Gar being utilized as the stylistic fore runner to wing chun when observed with iron thread.

Hi, you had commented on this earlier in a thread in the Southern forum -- can't find the thread now to link to it. At any rate, I think you're thinking of the wrong Master Chan.

The etymology of the ginormous amount of forms listed in the WL handbook is indeed interesting, you find out a lot from your sifu as you learn them (and um, it's the best way to get a correct lead on where that form came from).

Oh and, welcome to Wah Lum, judo_iaidoka! :)

BTW, at the beginning don't worry about the history of every move in a form, just concentrate on getting them right.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

The etymology of the ginormous amount of forms listed in the WL handbook is indeed interesting, you find out a lot from your sifu as you learn them (and um, it's the best way to get a correct lead on where that form came from).

.

they have a handbook?
i was looking at a page in taiwan. the school is reputedly just one or two generations from Iyip's CLF from before the big fight.

[mantid1]

Yuan

I think you are talking about a Choy Li Fut "Chan" not the one discussed here.
You have to remember that there are many people with the family name Chan :).

Have a good day