Bak mei or Baji Chuan as a second ART

[tigerharimau]

Hi Guys
I am a 35 guy in good shape, 6'3 , 220lbs,styudied Kyokushin Karate in the past, currently studying Ngo Chun Kun / Five ancestor . I have the opportunity to also take Bak Mei or Baji Chuan/Piqua mix(Adam Hsu lineage). Both I think are good styles. However the Bak Mei is 1 hours ****her to travel compare to Baji.Which one would you guys take and why, anything else you think.
Thanks

[joedoe]

I am biased, but I would just stick with Ngor Chor Kun ;) :D

BTW whereabouts are you?

[Kristoffer]

I'll say Baji/ Piqua for it's ''explosivness''

[Brad]

Couldn't say not knowing who the teacher is, what the classes are like, etc. Have you talked to your Five Ancestor about it? If you know the teachers' names it wouldn't hurt to ask around about them, as I think both communities for those styles are fairly small compared to some other martial arts. If it's a secondary thing, I'd probably go with baji if the teacher is good and since it's closer(gotta think about those high gas prices! ;)).

[SPJ]

I am biased.

Wu Tzu Quan and karate may be closer breeds.

Pi qua or Tong Bei need to have softer or more flexible shoulder joints, chest and back. There are bigger movements of arms and legs. Big opening and big closing. Da Kai Da He. which means a lot of throwing arms practice to soften the shoulder, chest, back and waist. Very flexible over all. You start your Jing from feet and relay it to your hands without retardations or stops.

Ba Ji starts with softness such as chan to engage and ends with hardness, hitting, qin na or throws. A lot of whole body Jing or wholeness issueing. Body structure has to be in the right place and at the right time. A lot of stamping feet, too. Your moves are always ended with Fa Jing. That is why most people think that Ba Ji is super hard or Kong Meng. And yet, they always start with softness. That is why GM Liu Yun Qiao said Ba Ji has internal components and big part of it. Or softness internally and hardness outwardly. Nei Ruo Wai Kong.

Maybe some throwing practice first such as Shuai Jiao. That may be more complimentary.

:)

[dingyuan]

I am bias too, go for Baji Quan.

But then again I don't know a thing about Bai Mei, can somebody enlighten me a little?

I too heard that there are some Baji master who killed people with a single blow. The most famous one was Li Shuwen"李书文". It was said he killed his opponent with a single Outer Gate Elbow"外门顶肘" to the chest which caused his opponent massive internal bleeding. "七孔流血".

[NeedsPractice]

Bai mei , or bak mei or pai mei or white eyebrow

a close range southern style

Since you have experience in long to intermediate range styles if you want a challenge try the bai mei, not knocking the long range stuff ( and the internal long range style can be used up close)

Bai mei should also have some internal too it, best thing check out both classes watch the teahcer demonstrate some stuff and see who you like more, not just the class structure but also the way the teacher and the GOOD students move.

Bai mei may be a bit more of a challenge for you because you will have to learn to make your movements smaller.

[fiercest tiger]

This depends on the Bak Mei system you chose also, there are different bak mei schools from different lineages and some also have long range hand techniques.

What does baji look like?


BAJ-ASS

[dingyuan]

This depends on the Bak Mei system you chose also, there are different bak mei schools from different lineages and some also have long range hand techniques.

What does baji look like?


BAJ-ASS

Baji Quan is also a close range style.

"Baji Quan is known for its forcefullness, simplicity and combative techniques. The eight extremes boxing is simple and plain, it consits of short and powerful techniques in both attack and defence. Elbows are often used in straightforward ways. The explosive powers generated are stimulated through breathing which is articulated by two sounds of "Heng" and "Ha". Powerful blows are delivered from elbows and shoulders in close combat agaisnt the opponent. "

[NeedsPractice]

If I am correct the close range attacks in Baji will be more body strikes than hand and foot strikes. Using your hips, shoulders etc.

[Brad]

hips, shoulders, elbows, chin na, throws, a couple short kicks, and a few hand strikes.

[SPJ]

All is correct.

The hip and shoulder strikes are called Kao 靠.

People may hear about one inch punch or Cun Jing 寸勁.

In Ba Ji, there are also one inch intercept and one inch grappling or Cun Jie and Cun Na 寸截寸拿.

:cool:

[SPJ]

Some use "Wuu" and "Hmm" more than "Heng" "Ha" in vocalization.

:)

[NeedsPractice]

Well I guess it comes down to what he wants to learn, a full body internal system like baji to complement his ability in other more long range systems that he already knows or a short range striking system that is not so full body oriented
(generally speaking) I think the bai mei would be more of a challenge based on his previous experience. Let us know what you pick and why.

[SimonM]

Baji is the one style of Kung Fu that I really WANT to learn that my sifu DOES NOT know so I'm going to go with Baji. ;) But I am also biassed. :p

[Tiger on Duty]

since i do both i think i can give you a good answer.

pak mei is harder to learn, hard to find worthy sifu and is the most different from your karate and 5 ancestors, so go with baji it is a long range to close range combat style, it has some techniques which may appear similiar to want you have already studied but is also very deep and practicle if you know what to look for, its easier to learn but this doesnt mean its anyless a great style also you already stated that your lineage will be from sifu hsu who has a great reputation.
Also the baji is slightly more external so it will be a easier transition than bak mei.

both bak mei and baji are extrmely good close range styles but baji is actually an infighting(xtrme close range) style while the piqua gives you the long range options.
Both styles use the 1,2,3 ko theory baji especially is 1 shot loaded(thou xtrmely good at it) baji is harder to recover from a failed technique than pak mei.


Do the baji but either style is an excellent choice.

Also there is alot of support for baji/piqua out there in sifu's, books etc but pak mei is very difficult to find anything.

[Palmer]

I have to agree with Brad. Although stylistic differences and methods do matter the ability of the teacher to physically interpret/apply the art in reality and then teach it well is so much more important IMO. There are so many good systems that have people that either cant apply them or cant teach well that the ability of the teacher becomes the first concern for me when choosing something.
Personally I would go down there and experience both classes first. If what your looking for is a self defence or combat art and not just 10 years of forms practice then you have to go down there and experience it first. I wouldnt assume that the general principles that each style tend to promote is exactly what you will get your going to learn a teaching from a person first and a style second.

FWIW

[BibitClerus]

if you want teh fighting skills
do 1 striking styel and 1 grappling style
period

[Yum Cha]

I would say, pick the master, not the art. The style debate is a smokescreen.

If it is too far, or too expensive, or has a good reputation but you don't like the training, then you may have trouble sticking with it.

I'm a big believer in depth not breadth when it comes to training.

And, if you want a lifetime pursuit, think about what the art will offer you in 10 years, when you're 45, or 50.


Good luck.

[bodhitree]

Baji need not be a second art, Baji kills people (well Baji masters do anyway)

[Yum Cha]

Baji need not be a second art, Baji kills people (well Baji masters do anyway)

:eek: Wow! You mean like for real, dead, and all that stuff??

Are there any other arts that enable people to kill people??


:D :D

[fiercest tiger]

If most kung fu Masters can kill someone easy then why not go into the UFC and PRIDE and fight real fighters?

After seeing the WU TAIJI AND PAK HOK grandmasters fight made me sick in the guts and i laughed so hard that i almost sh!t myself. Most kung fu students and teachers do not teach fighting but just a form and tradition and i feel sorry for us kung fu guys because we all get laughed at in tourneys when fighting MMA GUYS.

Forms are not going to help u or is sticky hands, u gotta spar and train like a fighter to kill someone. LOL

FT

[bodhitree]

If you have a good teacher, or a good lineage, they will teach you the fighting skills of the style, sometimes inside of a form, sometimes not. And by good lineage i mean a lineage that really fights, not fights in the ring, but actually fights real fights with no rules like don't poke the eyes, stike the throat and no referee to stop it.

[bodhitree]

I do agree many lineages and teachers teach forms and tradition over fighting, but that does not mean the other does not exist.