Training in Kung fu and Karate at the same time

[Snakehand]

Hey Guys,
I was solely a Baji practitiioner( Liu Yun and Huo style). But unfortunately I had to move , the baji guy is hours away, with wushu flavor. Not me..Currently taking two martial arts at the same time, one is Kyokushin Karate and the other Ngor Chor kun. I have not came across a problem. However my good buddy, who a purist, wing chun only( I think he been into it 15-16 years straight), believe it will definitely become one. What do you guys think? I know NCK is the forefathers to certain styles of karate? Any thoughts welcome :confused:

[MeatTosser]

Some of the greatest Gongfu Fighters trained in several systems; nothing wrong with that. As long as you work hard on both systems there shouldn't be a problem. And plus, you'll be getting a deeper understanding of Karate, since the southern Gongfu (especially White Crane) systems are its ancestor. Pan Qing Fu was a vicious fighter in his day, and is still regarded as one of the greatest gongfu teachers alive today; he trained with 15 different masters. :)

[rogue]

Wing Chun people worry too much. Do it and if it becomes a problem pick the one that suits you better.

[spiraler]

learn everything.

[NeedsPractice]

The kyukushin is good for developing a strong fighter, bare knuckle almost full contact. Karate generally has a differernt flavor than most kung fu styles. Depending on the style of kung fu you are learning and how it is taught you may find that karate is more basic in comparison, expects you to do the movements with different body mechanics and actually may not be worth the trouble.
This is not a dig on karate.

[g0pher]

You should always seek a varied background. And personally, I salute you for having the time to train in 2 arts - I have trouble getting time in for one.

But Karate and Kung Fu are just so different in terms of mechanics and the deviation can fluctuate greatly with each style of Kung Fu. But if the differing mechanics do not confuse you, then you should go for it. The best martial artists diversify. It's just new hearing Kung fu and Karate taken at once. It's usually a mix of Grappling and Kung Fu I hear about.

[joedoe]

NCK and okinawan karate supposedly have some historical connection, so you may not have as big a problem as might be thought. I have found the lineage of NCK that I do is slightly different from karate, but there are some common elements (Sam Chien/Sanchin)

[MeatTosser]

Yes, as I already stated before, don't worry about it. The more well-rounded you are, the better. Japanese Karate's roots are in Okinawa. And Okinawan Karate's roots are in Fujian White Crane. Read Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming's Essence of Shaolin White Crane (http://store.yahoo.com/ymaa/esofshaolwhi.html) , very good book on understanding fajing and White Crane martial power. NCK (Five Ancestor Fist) has also influenced Karate, so it shouldn't be a problem at all. Hell, originally, the word Karate meant "China Hand". It wasn't until later that they changed the meaning to "Open Hand".

g0pher stated:
It's just new hearing Kung fu and Karate taken at once. It's usually a mix of Grappling and Kung Fu I hear about.

Grappling IS Kung Fu and Kung Fu IS grappling. All the best gongfu systems have a ****load of grappling in them. Shuai Chiao and Chin'Na are the grappling parts of gongfu systems. :) If a Gongfu (Kung Fu) system doesn't have any grappling in it, it isn't really a "system" then, it's more of a style.

[KnightSabre]

by grappling I think he means ground fighting and not standing
grappling like Chin Na.There is very little good ground fighting found
in Chinese styles hence alot of king fu guys cross training with BJJ.

[Gangsterfist]

I have several years in an okinawan system called ryukyu kempo (taika oyata lineage) and I got up to a green belt (wich is right before brown) then I had to move and moved to a small town. In that small town I met a guy in the neighborhood that taught some kind of malasian karate for free at the park. I trained with him a bit. It was completely untraditional, no forms, no katas, just combat, drills, and exercises. Then I moved back to the city and then moved out for college. Took a bit of taiji in college and then when I moved back to where I was I started up Wing Chun.

Out of all my epxerience wing chun is one of my favortie martial arts, however I recognize that the karate I took was a complete system of combat that dealt with all ranges. It was a good system as well. It was a lot of joint locks and joint striking (stuff that permanetly injurs people).

My sifu holds a black belt in okinawan karate, and also teaches qigong, taiji, and if you are lucky choy li fut. He has been doing wing chun since he was a kid over in china, and he still learned other styles.

I train wing chun, taiji, and I am going to pick up a 3 art and start training with some friends of mine in the next few weeks (once my work schedule gets settled out). So, I think as long as you train hard enough to be able to know and execute the differences you will be fine.

Good luck to you in your training.

[Gangsterfist]

by grappling I think he means ground fighting and not standing
grappling like Chin Na.There is very little good ground fighting found
in Chinese styles hence alot of king fu guys cross training with BJJ.


Not true. There is ground fighting in CMA, look at monkey boxing for starters, or go pick up a book on shaolin chin na. You will see ground fighting.

[Merryprankster]

Not true. There is ground fighting in CMA, look at monkey boxing for starters, or go pick up a book on shaolin chin na. You will see ground fighting.

And BJJ has striking in it....

But is that really what you want to study for its striking?

You get good at what you train at.

[Gangsterfist]

And BJJ has striking in it....

But is that really what you want to study for its striking?

You get good at what you train at.


EXACTLY, most schools don't train both, and thats not to say that CMA or BJJ is the best answer, its about what you train. After all you are fighting a person and their personal attributes and skills, not a system.

[Salacious Crumb]

Not true. There is ground fighting in CMA, look at monkey boxing for starters, or go pick up a book on shaolin chin na. You will see ground fighting.

CMA groundfighting is inferior. It's in there, and it works, but it is limited. If you are serious about learning as much as possible, it only makes sense to seek out a more thorough approach.

When someone shows me an expert Chinese groundfighter opening a school, ANYWHERE, I'll be the first one in line to sign up for lessons. Until then, I'll take my chances with non-CMA sources in order to complete my skill sets.

Besides, anyone who hasn't taken a BJJ lesson would be suprised at how much "rolling" is like "push hands." The priciples are very similar. Don't be obtuse just because of the packaging.

[Merryprankster]

gf,

yes, but there is a cumulative effect. If there is "groundfighting" in a "system," but nobody really trains it, then what is the likelihood that an instructor in that system will understand the ins and outs of groundfighting? Probably low. There are all kinds of details that are necessary, and which will not be trained, understood or passed along - in general.

Similarly, there is striking in BJJ, but do most BJJers understand the ins and outs of striking? Of course not - at least not from BJJ.

So it's not just that you are training it, it's that you are training it well.

While I cannot say with accuracy that no CMA practicioner out there is a ground fighting wizard, strictly based on their CMA experience, I can definitely generalize by saying - "If you want good groundfighting, generally, CMA isn't the place to look."

[Merryprankster]

The priciples are very similar.

No they aren't. As anybody worth their salt will tell you, principles vary drastically from style to style. Even though the human form is unchanging, the principles involved in combat change and are unique and special :D:D:D:D:D

Don't worry....you'll get to hear this again....LOTS.

[NeedsPractice]

If you are going to do multiple styles try to make them complimentary

For example standup and bjj/judo/sambo

Or long range and close quarters

Or striking and one of the filipino arts ( heavy weapons emphasis)

As you get older time, money and health become rare commodities try to train with the best people possible in a constructive manner.
The first year or 2 cross training can really slow you down ( too much info to absorb, different body mechanics and footwork patterns etc.)

If you are going to spend the time to cross train make it count.

[PangQuan]

One of the things you will notice about the majority of high level martial artists through out time is this; Generally all of them cross classed, but at the same time that same ratio specialized. Get a good rounding of as many systems as you are capable of covering comfortably, but make sure and pick your favorite and learn as many aspects of it as possible. It would be very difficult to completely specialize in more than one art, as each art has so many unique aspects.