View Full Version : Non-Wing Chun short-range kung fu?

Brendan Carson
08-02-2000, 05:02 AM
I'm new to this group: what other short-range styles of kung fu are there besides Wing Chun? I seem to remember a Southern Mantis : are there others?
Do these martial arts have a centre-line theory?
do they talk about "gates"?
how do they do fight?


Shame on the soul that falters on the road of life while the body still endures

08-02-2000, 05:30 AM
Hi Brendan Carson,

Welcome aboard. Besides the three Southern Mantis, there are Lung Ying and Bak Mei which would fight in very close range. May I as which style do you practice?


P.S. You might want to check the southern forum here on KFO.

Contraria Sunt Complementa

08-02-2000, 05:38 AM
You can try the Northern method of short range fighting. Among the many short range systems, Bajiquan is among the best known. Bajiquan (8 extremities fist) is known for its explosive fa jing strikes within a short range. The training is quite demanding. China's most influential leader's (Henry Poo Yi, Mao Tse Tung, and Chang Kai Shek) personal bodyguards were all experts in Baji. Some of the teachers I am familiar with are Sifu Adam Hsu (his students are in the San Fransisco Area), Sifu Su Yu Chang (New York), Sifu Kurt Wong (Anchorage, Alaska), Jason Tsou (LA, Calif), Sifu Yang Shu Ton (Akron, Ohio), Sifu Ma Long Ma (Flushings New York), Sifu Charles Chen (New Jersey), Sifu John Hum (Montreal Canada) and sifu James Guo (Toronto, Canada).

You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet.

08-02-2000, 02:53 PM
All styles of kung fu have the centerline theory. When you do a reverse punch, it comes from the waist but ends at the center.

08-02-2000, 07:43 PM

Can I ask you a question?I thought Mao Tse Tung considered chinese martial arts in general just superstitions and that it didn't work?I might be misinformed.Didn't people who knew kung fu in the chinese revolution get killed for practicing kung fu?

08-02-2000, 07:46 PM
According to western historical accounts, which is pretty much all I can really say I've studied, the answer to both questions is yes.


08-02-2000, 08:21 PM
short fist CLF.

Jaguar Wong
08-02-2000, 08:48 PM
Praying Mantis (Tai Chi, or 7 star) use some vicious close range techniques (elbows, knees, headbutts, breaks). They both have a lot of Chin na in it (real big on the centerline theory).

There's also:
Pak Mei
Hung Gar
Southern Mantis
Southern 5 Animals/5 Families
Shuai Chiao

...The list just goes on /infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaguar Wong
www.superaction.com (http://www.superaction.com)

Brendan Carson
08-03-2000, 05:34 AM
Thanks for the help. I am ashamed to admit that I've actually practised four martial arts (Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun, Muay Thai and now Judo) because I've moved around a lot from small city to small city in Australia and also because study stops me making the kind of committment I'd like, (that's why I had to quit Muay Thai). If I'd stuck with one style for ten years I'd be resonably good, instead I'm not.

Wing Chun (Wong Shun Leung's lineage) was the one that "opened my eyes". At least two thirds of the class could have beaten my TKD instructor senseless, including people who'd only been training six months.

I'm not sure every style has a centreline theory. The way I was taught was that control of the centreline was synonymous with victory (I've since modified my views). That's why Wing Chun (our branch) didn't have hooks or spinning kicks. Boxing, TKD, etc. say it's acceptable to abandon the centreline, we were told it wasn't. But I saw some Southern Praying Mantis once and they looked pretty bloody good seemingly without centreline.

Shame on the soul that falters on the road of life while the body still endures

Ben Gash
08-03-2000, 07:01 PM
It all depends by what you mean by short range. All kung fu is short range. Even the large moves of longfist should be applied at close range. (this is a common misconception with long arm styles. People think that the technique is complete when you hit the person, instead of after you've driven through with the strike, giving the appearance of long range during solo practice. This is not helped by the fact that you can't follow through during demonstrations, so people tend to increase the range for safety, and also northern stylists tend to be quite twitchy anyway about showing serious applications of their arts).
If you mean short hand kung fu then there is (as has already been stated) Lung Ying (dragon sign) Pak Mei (white eyebrow) and Southern Mantis. There is also Wuzhuquan/Ngo Cho Kuen (5 ancestors boxing) which combines crane, monkey, Lohan, Longfist and Damo styles. Fukien white crane (origin of karate), which is very explosive. Hay Say Fu Hung Gar kuen (4 lower tigers Hung family boxing) which utilises the movements of the 5 animals, and Lau Gar Kuen (Lau family boxing) which is a fairly orthodox southern shaolin/5 animals shorthand system.
Also don't forget that there are many different styles of Wing Chun, ranging from the Guolo 40 point system, which has no long sets and trains 40 short drills, to the Pao Fa Lien system, which has ten hand sets and also uses butterfly knives, long pole, tiger fork, quan dao, chain whip and straight sword.

08-03-2000, 08:10 PM
You can still apply a centerline theory, off center. In my regard, centerline does not equate solely to what one's hands are doing or line of attack. My spine dictates my centerline. Although I might attack wide of the centerline, say a hook, my movement (spine-hips) remains grounded based on an intersecting centerline theory.

Obviously being dynamic, IMNSHO, the centerline remains covered in so much as my ability to move, counter move and attack. For me, the centerline is merely a path to the opponent's weakspot..a hight center of gravity. This is when the many hours of 2-person, stance practise comes to play. If I were to limit my centerline by mere hands...guess I'd use very short, in-close movements like Wing Chun professes.

BTW, I study CLF. /infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

08-04-2000, 12:29 AM
I think nospam hits (pun intented) on a good point here. Many interpret the centerline as a imaginary line splitting the body into left and right halves. Along the line are all those vital points. The center of gravity is usually near the bottom of the vertical line. This is more a stationary explanation of the centerline. BTW, I think some Wing Chunians call this the motherline as all childern (powers/ging) born of this. Dynamic centerline is more like nospam described. It is where the body weight and center of gravity (they are correlated not necessary the same thing) reside. Personally, I think Sun Lu Tang (Xing Yi's great master) comment on this before. An example of this is the stomp and pound move "Gum Kong Dold Chui", which is also related to Ying/Yang theory. Left side of the body became the "centerline" and act like the hinge of a door; whereas, the right side of the body slams hard. One can achieve the pounding effect if his body apprends the Dynamic Centerline and the Ying/Yang theories well.


Contraria Sunt Complementa

08-04-2000, 01:04 AM
This is exactly how the various systems were developed and redeveloped. How one camp perceives a common subject to that of another.

08-04-2000, 03:36 AM
most styles have atleast some close range anyway even boxing