What are some basic facts/ideas about internal strength?

[JohnnyMnemonic]

What is a simple or basic idea that you know about internal strength or internal martial arts. Like how is it defined or what is an example of it or something like that. If someone said "what is internal strength?" to you, what is the easiest example to tell them?

Simple. A few sentences only to explain.

The internal threads get really confusing. I thought a general, basic, simple concept of "what internal strength is" thread could make the more complicated stuff easier to understand.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Internal is the result of many generations and several lineages' studies of alignment, motion, balance, energies, and health habits.. generally associated with Eastern philosophical beliefs such as Taoism.. these studies are structured around self-defense applications and total health benefits.. Ideally, the study and refinement continues, rather than confined to a specific set.. there is great emphasis on self-control and control of the movement and intentions of opponents.. anatomy, physics, human nature, medicine, herbology, meditation and combat theory/experience are some of the elements that combine to enhance this unique discipline.. There is much historical mysticism surrounding "Internal Arts" that is slowly disappearing due to advancements in science and human intellectual capacity.. many ancient mysteries are now standard knowledge, explainable in terms that credit the ancient's intuitiveness.. still, there is much to be explored and explained in terms sufficient to satisfy skeptics.. Fraud and cultish adherence to unsubstansiated claims have done much to harm the potential benefits of good Internal Arts..

Internal strength is derived from proper structural alignment, good balance/rooting, and refinement of the energies that power the flesh and bones.. optimum muscular development that emphasizes a fluid range of motion in harmony with reasonable strength permits the most efficient use of the energies.. understanding the relationships of yielding, attacking and the physics of physical interaction combined with the cultivated energies and strength give Internal Arts their signature appearance.. and, a developed sense of human nature, including "listening skills", dictates the appropriate timing necessary for it all to come together as Internal Arts..

DISCLAIMER: the above represents my understanding only, contrary opinions and beliefs are deserving of consideration when forming personal opinions...

Be well..

[SPJ]

Internal and external are relative terms. They are like Yin and Yang.

TCB is correct. Internal focuses on cultivation of Yi (intention) and Qi.

Internal focuses on Qi gong, breathing exercise, Qi Gong meditation and Qi Gong in movements usually slowly.

Internal focuses on smaller changes in movements.

Internal focuses on more exact and precise or fine movement.

Internal may be explosive like a thunder and at lightening speed by being flexible.

Internal relays Qi and Jing from the feet or waist without retardation or stops.

If you feel some Jing that means you retain your Jing.

If you feel nothing, that means all the Jing is transfered to the opponent.

To do that, you have to cultivate Yi and Qi flow and relax all the way.

You do not oppose. You follow. You stick. You redirect. You add to the opponent's Jing.

---

People may only see what is going out on the outside or external.

Things that are not readily seen and yet may be felt that is internal.

:D

[cam]

1. All movement starts at the Dan Tien
2. If one part moves all parts move
It seems to me the only major difference between an Internal movement and an External movement is the development of peng jing and song
I could be wrong :)

[cam]

Interesting, as I have heard some people describe the kua as the source of all movements. Even when I practise the Hun Yuan 24 or what little I know of the Lao Jia Yi Lu I find that my motion seems to originate from the dantien, kua, mingmen area(s). I still find it hard to differentiate, perhaps all three do come into play, maybe SPJ could help me elaborate on those points.
I know that I could practise my forms without paying attention to the proper principals, then I would be just doing an external form but if I pay attention to the proper principals it will be internal. Though I do agree that some motions cannot be done with an adherence to proper taijiquan principals, why some people don't even consider chen-style to be internal :)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Movement originates in the mind and begins from the feet (rooting).. powered by the legs.. controlled by the waist/DanTien.. and manifested as intended (hands or feet)..

As for alignment being associated with external, it is associated with both.. it is the frame from which int/ext are expressed.. developing good alignment and fluid strength is like building a good road.. here, we discern between strength and power, internal "power" has, as one of its elements, strength.. having built a good "road", internal "power" can navigate that road quickly and smoothly.. to the degree we are lax in our road-building, the power will be less efficient.. if i develop my energy to Porsche qualities and try to drive it on a dirt road it will not utilize its full potential.. it's a continuous project, fine-tuning the Porsche AND maintaining the road..

Be well..

[cam]

Well not to point out the obvious but all movement originates in the mind(YI), except of coarse reflex motion which is independent of conscious thought.
I've noticed that after I've been practising for a while I can really feel my feet(root) and indeed it seems that all my motions originate from that spot. At this stage of training I can only experience that sensation from silk reeling exercises, my form is still somewhat sloppy :(

[Ray Pina]

Merry Pranskter posted breathing ideas the other day that singers use .... and he's right, Internal does not have a monopoly on them.

But just as taoist fighters also found those same breathing fundamentals a long time ago, they also found optimal ways to use total body stenght and internal energy channels.

It's basically the study of optimum performance and health. It takes discipline. I know things that are good for me but don't always have the discipline to maintain the practice.

I'm doing better though. But to talk about how to utilize sexual energy, breathing, body mechanics and technique -- in a few sentences -- good luck.

[cam]

No offence taken. Like yourself I've been a student of IMA for a short time now, for me it's still a process of discovery. Now I can cut and paste as well as the next guy but this does nothing to further my understanding of this art, my own experience is the only thing I shall trust. Saying that, I realize there are some members on this board with much more practical experience than myself so I will listen to what they have to say and see how it compares to my experience. :)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

delibandit

I don't want to offend anyone, but I think you guys are way off on your understanding and descriptions of want constitutes internal. Well, referencing the mind as you do in other posts.. wisdom suggests that although you indicate that you "don't want to offend anyone", you might alienate people with such blanket judgments.. not offend, mind you, just weaken any potential value your perspective might have.. i have to admit that your posts are a little cryptic..
using the mind to change another point on the body. Forgeting the original contact point and using the mind in another point to to change the contact point. If you could be a little more clear on that idea it may have some merit, but.. as presented, i'm not certain what you mean.. You might consider that, ultimately, the mind must be open to differing perspectives.. Your reference to "listening skills" hints at some basic concepts essential to quality Taiji, but.. like normal "listening" you must be able to understand what you hear and use it appropriately...

We can each contribute our individual perspectives, from which we can each derive a more well-rounded picture of the subject.. we may reject some perspectives as not consistent with our current understanding of the art.. but, that may not make that perspective "wrong".. next year as your experience expands, you may wish to revisit some of those rejected concepts from a different frame of reference..
called external intergration. It is one of the first steps in internal training. You may find that this alignment refinement is foundational to any further advancement, and will remain core to your practice.. constantly being refined at deeper and more subtle levels..
Again, from my own perspective, internal power is the mind and is reflected in the physical movement. Is this not the case in all movement, in all power, in all of life itself? It all originates in the mind, and is manifested physically.. It is the mind that drives the discipline.. what eludes us is the mechanisms of thought-to-action.. or, as in my previous analogy, building the road is relatively easy.. skill is required to navigate it successfully..

Be well..

[Unfettered Palm]

johnnymnemonic-"What is a simple or basic idea that you know about internal strength or internal martial arts. Like how is it defined or what is an example of it or something like that. "

-simple or basic idea-- softness overcomes hard, stilness overcomes motion.

-how is it defined?--- This is where it can get confusing because no two people will have the same word for word definition. The answer can not be given in a minimum of sentences with out sounding some what cryptic. There are many factors that make up internal martial arts, so to try and fit all the proper words to define it would be like trying to squeeze 100 people in a phonebooth -- not easy. here is a short definition.--the cultivation and use of chi through refined practices connecting mind, body and spirit. --remember....short. If you are looking for a longer answer take tai chi bobs 1st post and research everything he said--then through hours of research you will find your definition.

-An Example of it or something like that-- nature is always the best place for an example of anything. but, water is what I tell you. Water is hard and can destroy things in the form of waves, but when it flows downstream in a creek it moves around the rocks in its way. it doesn't fight to get over the rock, it simply moves around it.

Johnny mnemonic asked for a short answer and it was my intention to provide short answers he was looking for. not to try and undermine the knowledge of the previous posts.

-Zi Zheng-

[Buddy]

Read Tim Cartmell's commentaries about alignment, movement, and structure in his books Effortless Combat Throws and Xingyi Neigong.