13 yr old kid whacks another kid with baseballbat: on trial for murder

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20050413-1619-ca-baseballkilling.html


PALMDALE – A 13-year-old pitcher whose baseball team, the Angels, had just lost for the first time this season was being teased at the concession stand when witnesses said he pulled out a bat and clobbered his 15-year-old antagonist.

Now he could face a murder charge.


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The teen, whose name was not released, was arrested Wednesday for investigation of murder and was being held at Antelope Valley Juvenile Hall as authorities prepared to take the case to prosecutors.

He is suspected of killing spectator Jeremy Rourke, 15, after the Tuesday night game.

Despite the fight, the boys had no history of problems, said Tony Trevino, coach of the opposing Dodgers.

"That's what's so shocking and so appalling," he said. "What happened? What did we miss as a community? What did we miss as parents."

A friend outside the Rourke home said the family had no immediate comment about the attack in the desert city about 40 miles northeast of Los Angeles.

The suspect was the starting pitcher when his team was beaten for the first time in eight games by the Dodgers, a team that went into the game with a 1-6 record.

Deputies declined to provide further details of the attack.

Ryan Gosporra, 15, said the incident began when his friend Rourke cut in front of the suspect in the snack bar line. Neither he nor Trevino saw the attack that occurred after the last game of the night with about 40 people at the field.

But Trevino, 50, said witnesses told him the two boys teased each other before the suspect pulled a bat from his bag and hit Rourke in the knees, then the head.

Earlier, the suspect had appeared upset about the game but nothing seemed out of the ordinary, said Trevino, a retired rehabilitation therapist. The boy was known for being competitive but did not have a reputation for being violent, he said.

Rourke was white and the suspect is black, but "racism had nothing to do with it," Trevino said. "This is a behavior problem not a racial problem."

After the attack, Trevino saw the suspect standing against a fence with his parents. "He looked scared. He was in shock," the coach said.

Other onlookers said the 13-year-old seemed dazed after the incident.

"He just didn't realize it, it just happened and before you know it and then like I say, I told him, 'What did you do, why did you do that?'" parent Sam Cordova told Fox 11 News.

"I could see it in his eyes that it was starting to sink in, oh my gosh, what did I do?" Cordova said.

The Palmdale Pony League field has a sign recruiting boys 5 to 14 and encouraging parents to "Protect Our Nation's Youth."

Parent Jorge Morey, 37, said he was stunned that the attack occurred in such a respectable league.

"It's a real family atmosphere. That's what I like about it," he said.

League officials said play would be suspended at the field for several days.

"We're really in a state of shock over this whole thing," league President Ken Curtis said. Rourke had been a junior umpire and his father is a past president of the league.

A memorial was held at Highland High School, where Rourke attended classes. Students shared memories, and a bundle of pink and black balloons was released.

"He's just a funny kid. He liked to make people smile," Gosporra said. "You could be in the worst mood and he would make you laugh."

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

its hard to say what happened for sure uneless more details come out, but it sounds like it was an accident. it says he hit him in the knees and then in the head. if he hit him in the head once, and only once, i think its obvious he didnt want to kill the other kid no matter how bad he wanted to hurt him.

and this brings up a terrible delima for the parents. its easy for me to sit back and think i hope the kid doesnt pay his entire life for a mistake no matter how terrible, but if it were my kid that were dead i doubt id be saying the same thing. if i were the parent of the dead kid and the attacker were 16 i'd probably kill him, but 13 is right at that line which makes it even worse.

terrible situation.

[joedoe]

To me the key thing is that his reaction was to pull out his baseball bat and whack the guy.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

sometimes you just got to whack a guy in the head with a bat.

[Losttrak]

Well, it sure beats marching into the school library with hunting rifles and shotguns. Darwinism people.

[joedoe]

Well, it sure beats marching into the school library with hunting rifles and shotguns. Darwinism people.

True enough. Baseball bats don't kill people, people kill people.

[Samurai Jack]

Only a dumb a$$ thirteen-year old kid would think they could hit somebody in the head with a bat and not kill them. Good thing for him the death penalty isn't available for juveniles. My guess is this wasn't the first time he assaulted someone, just the first time he was caught.

[joedoe]

No, only a 13 year-old who has watched too many movies where people get whacked across the head with a bat/pipe/plank of wood and get straight back up.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i dunno man ... i think it has more to do with bad judgement than movies/video games.

i might be a ******* too, but i really woudnt think one conk with a bat would kill a guy. especially if it were a 13 year old swinging it.

[Samurai Jack]

A thirteen year old trained baseball player... the other kid's head probably came apart like a rotten watermelon.

Manslaughter at the least. I'd charge him with Murder 2 if I was the prosecutor.

[Becca]

13 is still young enough for a kid to still think that things on the b00b tube are real. And not yet old enough to have developed the habit of thinking before acting. :( Manslauter, yes. Murder, no. I doubt he had any thought what so ever about killing, or even injurring the other kid. He lost his temper and lashed out, sounds like.

[FatherDog]

i think its obvious he didnt want to kill the other kid no matter how bad he wanted to hurt him.

There's a crime specifically designated for this circumstance. 3rd degree murder is specifically defined as someone engaging in an unlawful assault not intended to result in the death of the victim, which does wind up killing the victim.

[Samurai Jack]

The fact that lethal force was used will surely impact the D.A.'s decision as to what to charge the kid with. He could make a better argument that the thing was accidental if he'd killed the kid with a punch. As it stands, he attacked an unarmed kid with a weapon and his victim died. He also had to have struck his victim multiple times since he hit him in the knees and head. Manslaughter seems unlikely to me the more I think about it.

[FatherDog]

Manslauter, yes. Murder, no.

Manslaughter is the death of a human being as a result of an unlawful act not constituting a felony. Assault with a baseball bat constitutes a felony, so it's third degree murder, not manslaughter.

[Liokault]

[QUOTE=Samurai Jack]Only a dumb a$$ thirteen-year old kid would think they could hit somebody in the head with a bat and not kill them. Good thing for him the death penalty isn't available for juveniles. QUOTE]


Press here (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/04/16/SC52SUN.DTL)

[The Willow Sword]

Nowadays it just doesnt pay to be a bully or someone who teases and makes fun of another person because they are different,or are raised different, or in any circumstance where the so called "norm" is not followed.

i grew up with bullys harrassing me when i was in elementary school,,i was a runt back then and i had to take it,,plus the abuse i was getting at home did not help much. I will admit that i had thoughts of watching these bullies get their deserved "comeupins",,those thoughts even went so far as to visualize scenarios of them being killed. yes i will admit that i had those thoughts back then as a child.

However we all do have a choice when it comes to this type of behavior,,you can either burden yourself with these experiences and think of them as "crosses to bear" or you can use those experiences as "tools of strength" and by tools of strength i mean that you realize that these bullies are people with lower self esteem than you and you realize that it is wrong and that it would be wrong of you to retaliate in the manner that they treat you. However this is not taught these days,,,instead you have parents who will advise thier kids to "stand up for themselves" and not teach them how they should do that in a positive manner.
of course this is not apparent in all walks of life,,but we have seen time and time again our youth being stressed out to the point where they snap(columbine high,,paducah Kentucky,,the indian reservation,,and there are many others)

in this instance i feel like maybe there WAS a racial thing going on even though people are denying things right now( i guess we will know more once this goes to trial) you have one boy teasing another boy for "losing a game" and i can imagine some of the insults thrown in both directions,,with the kid and the bat allowing those insults to get to him where all he then sees is red and he gets out the bat and pops him a good one,,killing him.

i would think that nowadays kids who feel like they are so important and high and mighty and who tease others who may be "weaker" in their eyes would get the message that they ought not to do that,,lest they be the victim of their own circumstance. Im sorry to have to put it this way but there are kids out there who are stressed out enough as it is trying to be somebody in this life and society and what they dont need is some a$$hole kid getting up in their face. ESPECIALLY in kids sports event s where instead of them being taught to "have fun" they are taught that they "have to WIN WIN WIN" and if they dont win they are "LOSERS LOSERS LOSERS". I think that maybe some of these coaches need to pull thier heads out of their jock a$$es and stop being drill sargents to these kids.

i feel for the victims family and i also feel for the kid who Killed. Nothing can really justify what happened. but we CAN seek to really understand WHY the situation happened like it did and try to prevent that from happening by using kind words and setting good examples.
I wonder if Mr Bush in his "wisdom" :rolleyes: who wants children to learn how to read would also want them to read with a positive mind and in a safe school atmosphere?
You know back in junior high and High school we all thought that Guidance counselors were useless as the t!ts on a boar hog. Now maybe we need something a little more than a "guidance counselor" but an actual "COUNSELOR". one who instead of talks about what college they want to go to,,that they talk about "whats bothering them".

thats my say,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,PEACE,,,TWS

[Anjentao]

Interesting issue. I feel sorry for the kid that died (obviously anyone would). Curious that there were no parents close enough to stop the incident after it had started. The kid cut in line and then started making fun of the other kid? Obviously that doesn't warrant killing him, but it seems that this fact would have caught the attention of some onlookers, eh?

I think his anger got the best of him and before he really realized what had happened, it was over.

I was in a similar situation in about eighth grade. A kid made fun of something, I got PO'ed and put him in a head lock (like I had seen on TV, by the way). As I was talking back to him I kept a tight grip. only a few seconds later I let him go and he fell of his stool and his eyes rolled back in his head as he hit the concrete floor. I was terrified, he was unconscious. He ended up in the hospital and I was suspended. I was lucky enough to learn a lesson without any legal issues.

[Becca]

Manslaughter is the death of a human being as a result of an unlawful act not constituting a felony. Assault with a baseball bat constitutes a felony, so it's third degree murder, not manslaughter.
If you cause an accident and someone dies, it can go either way (manslauter of murder 3) If a bat is a weapon, so is a car...

I hope JP responds to this thread. I'd be interested in some real legal oppinions. :)

[joedoe]

Is there such a thing as an illegal opinion? :D

[Becca]

Yup. Tha's what the criminal yelled at the cop just before getting arrested for disorderly conduct, assaulting an officer, ect... :p

[joedoe]

I would have thought an illegal opinion would be one that is either liberal, communist, or terrorist :D

[red5angel]

its hard to say what happened for sure uneless more details come out, but it sounds like it was an accident. it says he hit him in the knees and then in the head. if he hit him in the head once, and only once, i think its obvious he didnt want to kill the other kid no matter how bad he wanted to hurt him.

and this brings up a terrible delima for the parents. its easy for me to sit back and think i hope the kid doesnt pay his entire life for a mistake no matter how terrible, but if it were my kid that were dead i doubt id be saying the same thing. if i were the parent of the dead kid and the attacker were 16 i'd probably kill him, but 13 is right at that line which makes it even worse.

terrible situation.



Interesting. Well let' shope the 15 year olds second chance at a life....oh yeah, never mind.

[wdl]

Knees then the head.... sounds like he knew how to use the bat. I guess he was a trained killer and we should take the ball bats away from all the kids.(note the sarcasm)

Seriously though, somebodies parents failed somewhere, or maybe the doctors had prescribed an upper instead of a downer for the kid's ADD. Who knows, what is known is that a terrible thing happened and that needs to be examined. MA instructors should take heart to this and make sure their younger students understand control and restraint. Maybe if this 13 year old was under the instruction of a good Sifu it wouldn't have happened either.

-Will

[red5angel]

Seriously though, somebodies parents failed somewhere, or maybe the doctors had prescribed an upper instead of a downer for the kid's ADD.

oh I'm sure we can find something else other then this kid to take the blame for his actions. Heck, that's what americans are good at!

[fa_jing]

A vote for Murder 2 here.

[The Willow Sword]

Cure the headache by cutting off the head,,,thats real good guys :rolleyes:

How about instead of some pre-programmed responses concerning "legal matters" you actually lend some opinions and thoughts about Why this kid did what he did? sure we can speculate but thats all part of the process. Who really gives a cr@p about the "legalities" of things. He is going to get swept up in the judicial system thats a given.

Peace,,,TWS

[red5angel]

if you're saying we should open him up and run experiments on him to figure out what makes people like this tick, I'm all for it. Otherwise it's hard to say. Upbringing? outside influence? The dog made him do it? Who knows. We do know he killed a person, took that life away without a second thought and I don't want to live in the same society that he does. He's proven he's not made up for civilization as it stands now.

[Jhapa]

[QUOTE=Samurai Jack]Only a dumb a$$ thirteen-year old kid would think they could hit somebody in the head with a bat and not kill them. Good thing for him the death penalty isn't available for juveniles. QUOTE]


Press here (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/04/16/SC52SUN.DTL)

there isn't anymore death penalties for juveniles. US Supreme Court said no.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4519294&sourceCode=RSS

"Analysis: High Court Strikes Down Death Penalty for Juveniles
by Nina Totenberg

Morning Edition, March 2, 2005 · The Supreme Court has struck down state death penalty laws for 16- and 17-year-olds. In a 5-4 decision, the high court found putting juveniles to death to be cruel and unusual. The minority opinion voiced concerns that the majority was bowing to foreign courts and legislators."

[Vash]

"Knees, then Head."

Couple of possibilites here.

1. He hit the knee inadvertently while raising the bat to bust the kid in the head.

2. He hit the knee to prep for the head strike.

If 1, it's possible he reacted violently with the intent to "shut the kid up," as opposed to wishing him to be injured or dead.

If 2, he intended to do this kid real physical harm with a weapon he knew how to use.

In either case, he caused the death of a child. Being a child himself does not mean we can keep him from being punished for the rest of his life. He should. He should suffer for it. And more than waking up every day knowing someone's dead because of something he did back when.

[red5angel]

To back myself up; I'm a Reserve Police Officer (hopefully full-time soon).

That's not much for backup. My buddies are police reservists working for towards their careers in actual law enforcement and they still got a long way to go.

[Becca]

I get the leathal force part. The car senario was ment to draw your focus to the fact that driving irrisponceably and acting irrisponably are the same thing. ramming your car into someone else's because you wanted to get around someone else driving too slow for your personal preferance is and killing them is usually manslauter. That is no different that bashing a bat into someone's face after they deliberatly antaginize you.

Don't get me wrong- the kid is at fault. He is definanly old enough to know that is not acceptable behavior, even if his parents don't teach it, or act that way, at home. I was just thinking that charging a 13 year-old kid with murder, then letting a supposed adult off with mere manslauter for very similar crimes is wrong.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Interesting. Well let' shope the 15 year olds second chance at a life....oh yeah, never mind.

i know dude. but we didnt see it go down. we didnt see how hard he swung or how many times he swung.

there is no fine line between smackin the kid upside the head with a bat and leaving not much more than a bruise yet killing the kid in a freak "accident" and bashing the kids head into a bloody mess.

i'm just not sure that the punishment for both should be the same.

[red5angel]

In my opinion the fine line is not drawn at the amount of damage at contact, it's drawn when the kid decided to swing the baseball bat at another human being. Past that point at it's only a matter of getting some jail time for hurting someone maliciously or getting the chair for killing someone.

[wdl]

In my opinion the fine line is not drawn at the amount of damage at contact, it's drawn when the kid decided to swing the baseball bat at another human being. Past that point at it's only a matter of getting some jail time for hurting someone maliciously or getting the chair for killing someone.


Yep, swinging the bat is the line. Before that he was your average Joe, after that it's a matter of JV Detention(for that wonderful light tap that just knocked kid out) and San Quinten.

-Will