Starting a club from the ground up

[Royal Dragon]

Had an interesting turn of events this evening. It's something that made me realise that it's time for me to start teaching again.

OK, here's what I'm doing, with little to no $$, and only a park to practice in, I am going to start a Kung Fu club. I am looking for people to work on the Tai Tzu material I have been researching for the last few years. I may do it as a study group, or I may do it as a class where I teach Kung Fu according to me.

Anyone got any ideas on how I can do this, and get students quickly? I need low cost marketing ideas. I need ideas to raise awareness of the program, and get people involved.

The goal would be to build a group that, in time, will be the core I need to support a viable commercial school someday.


Saturday, if not as soon as I'm done working tomorrow, I'm going to go start scopeing out some local parks, and picnic areas to see what may work.


Let's hear your thoughts and ideas!!

[joedoe]

Help sif you have one or more friends who are interested in learning. Start training with them at home or in a park. As they get more competent, encourage them to bring friends. As you get a larger group, move classes into a hall somewhere and start charging money.

The reason I recommend training with a small group first and getting them competent is that it is hard to run a school on your own, so you need help from other competent players.

One way to build your numbers that I have seen work very well is to start teaching at community colleges etc. and use those classes as feeders into your school.

[wall]

In no particular order:

- word of mouth (free from friends)

- website (free if you can do it yourself which is not hard)

- flyers / posters (design them yourself or a talented friend, cost of printing thousands just a few hundred $)

- doing demos (at every local event, tournament, etc)

I did the above when I started my school in October, and have gone from 1 to 21 paying students in 4 months. Currently I'm getting an average of 2-4 new students joining per month, so I'm looking at 50 by the end of the year, which is a good target given that I'm only paying a % to the gym where I use the room 3 nights per week.

Good luck,

W

[ghost5]

Do any of your parks have indoor sports/meeting rooms? Ours' do and they will rent them to you at VERY low rates. You do have to have insurance but that is affordable and you have a nice floor and people going by that can become students. There are also several schools in this area that use church gyms to train in. Since these are mostly sitting empty you might be surprised if you ask at a couple to find one that will work with you.

If we practice outside in the parks here we still have to be insured. No MA practice allowed on city property without it. Just something you might need to look into.

What is listed above, demos, word of mouth and the rest are a good start.


Good luck.

[rogue]

Had an interesting turn of events this evening.
When don't you RD? :D

[SiuHung]

Here's some advice:

Drive to Madison WI. Visit Saeksan and his school. He has many years of teaching experience and I'm sure he could give you some good input.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

find a YMCA or other health club that regularly has a lunch-time arobics class in the gym. let them see you work your forms. if the arobics instructor asks you to explain what you're doing explain that you didn't mean to disturb thier class.

i did this once in boston and was sharing the class with the areobics gal the next meeting and getting half her monthly fees. :cool:

they learned two forms in a month (and well, too!). but they weren't looking for lengthy workouts or long forms... :confused:

[ZIM]

- website (free if you can do it yourself which is not hard)

For cost, if you want to pay me.

/hey, I had to. :)

[SevenStar]

first thing you need is a plan - get a lesson plan together - something you can talk to and show people should they ask for specifics. Next, find a student and rely on word of mouth from there. Since it's only a "small study group" and you're not insured (or are you?) then you may not want to advertise too much.

Another option may be to visit some local gyms. You may find one that wants to institue an MA program. If so, con...um....persuade them to let you run one for them. Churches are another option. I've recently been approached to start a program at my church and also at a local gym.

[Fu-Pow]

Are you still shooting for a 6 figure salary?

[SevenStar]

I hope not...

[Chief Fox]

first thing you need is a plan - get a lesson plan together - something you can talk to and show people should they ask for specifics. Next, find a student and rely on word of mouth from there. Since it's only a "small study group" and you're not insured (or are you?) then you may not want to advertise too much.

Another option may be to visit some local gyms. You may find one that wants to institue an MA program. If so, con...um....persuade them to let you run one for them. Churches are another option. I've recently been approached to start a program at my church and also at a local gym.

A lesson plan is a good idea but an even better one is a business plan. Creating a business plan really makes you think about what you want from your business. What do you want to do in the first 3 months, 6 months , year and so on. you can also create you definition of success with your business plan. If you're not meeting your own expectations then you know that you have to change something.

-Put flyers up at the community college.
-Give some free classes at elementary schools and have the kids take flyers home.
-Do the old flyer on the windshield trick at any large parking lot near the park where you will be practicing.
-Make one of those folding signs that says "Royal Dragon Kung Fu" and put it out when you're giving classes at the park so people who pass by can get info.

[Royal Dragon]

Are you still shooting for a 6 figure salary?

Reply]
No, just enough to cover rent, and insurance.

The Chicago Mob appears to be having some postions opening up, I'm thinking of sending in my resume, so I really don't need $$ from Kung Fu.

[Royal Dragon]

Chief Fox,

I actually have agood lesson plan, many infact. I have a pretty deacent, and progressive curriculem to work from.


>>Put flyers up at the community college.

Reply]
A Great idea! There is one not too far form where I'm thinking of going.

>>Give some free classes at elementary schools and have the kids take flyers home.

Reply]
Another great idea! I know just the schools I'm going to do this at. I may take it one step further and hit the High school too.

>>Do the old flyer on the windshield trick at any large parking lot near the park where you will be practicing.

Reply]
Not a bad idea, but there are no major parking lots nearby most of the locations I have been scopeing out. It's alot of residential, with many small buisnesses on the main drag. I'd have to hit all of them.

>>Make one of those folding signs that says "Royal Dragon Kung Fu" and put it out when you're giving classes at the park so people who pass by can get info.

Reply]
Hee he he, I actually have a banner from when I was doing this before. ;)

[Dark Knight]

Go to

www.masuccess.com

And

http://www.efconline.com/

Sighn up with one and make some money

From the site
"For example, you’ve probably heard of Steve LaVallee. Steve had 90 students when he joined EFC in 1983. Now he has 4 schools and over 2,000 students.

You may also have heard of a guy in Ann Arbor named Keith Hafner. Keith’s school was hanging on by a thread when he joined EFC in 1983. Today, his single location grosses over $100,000...each and every month."

[Royal Dragon]

100,000 a MONTH???? Damm, I just wanted to net that in a year!

[neit]

i really like the idea of having pamphlets available while you are training. gives passers by a message "yes we are accepting new students, you are welcome to join us"

[Royal Dragon]

Yes, that is a good idea. I have had success with that in the past myself.

[45degree fist]

I have heard of people renting out time from an existing MA school.

You use the times when they dont have class, these times are rare but good enough for someone starting out. also if they like your program they may add your services to their advertising because it brings people through the door all day. They already have insurance and if their not using the space at that time it is smarter to have it make a little money rather than none. so you can probably get this cheap, most of the equipment is there already. you will be working under their name, but eventually you will have your own place and people will remember you.

[Royal Dragon]

Actually, there is a TKD school right in the area I want to be in. They have a basement that is in the process of being remodled. I am going to ask them about it in the next few weeks or so.

As for insurance, I'm going to renew the policy I had before, reguardless, just for good measure.

[GeneChing]

How would I start a club/school? First I'd look around the neighborhood. Location is everything. Find a place where people can get to conveniently. See what other schools are around. Go into those other schools, break their sign, and steal their students. OK, just kidding about that. Don't do that. ;)

Most schools make there money on the front end - that's what a lot of those business programs will teach you. Capture the kids because it's a huge market. Sign everyone to contracts so they have to pay even if they quite in a few months because that's what will happen - no matter how good a teacher you might be, martial arts isn't for everyone and a lot of people quit. Those business programs urge you to take the money of those quitters regardless.

The other big unseen moneymaker is merchandise - uniform sales, equipment sales, etc. A resale license is crucial for this. Once you get that license, contact Tiger Claw (http://www.,tigerclaw.com). We have lots of programs available to get you rolling.

Teaching is a lot of work and usually not very profitable, but it's the best thing you can do for humanity.

[Royal Dragon]

Actuallly, a few posts up we discovered MA schools make $100,000 a month!

Yeah, mechandising is a big thing. I was with another outfit before, but I will gladly go with Tiger claw if you can give me a good deal on unifrorms! :p

[Losttrak]

If you want to really make the money, you need to accept the fact that: Kids = $$$.

Thats where the vast majority of money in MA is at... and signing their parents after you win over the children. However, handling children can be some of the most draining instruction you can imagine. My sifu happened to work magic with them so I learned alot from him.

Or, like Gene was saying... Just call your opposing school's instructors "The Sick Men of <Insert town name here>" and proceed to attack repeatedly with samurai swords until you are their only option.

Of course I am kidding. As long as you are utterly focused the personal goals of each student (which is hard with 100+ members) you will win everyone over. After all, no one wants to be just a number and a paycheck...

[Royal Dragon]

I used to teach kids, and was very good at it. I never found it drainig at all. Kids have alot of energy, and it rubs off on you.

You know, I'd love to teach kids starting about 3:30 or 4:00, and have an adult class start at 6:30 or so and go to 8:30.

All adults start at 6:30. Beginners leave at 7:30, intermediates leave at 8:00, and advanced leave when I'm good and done. By doing this, the advanced adults would get a review of the basics as I teach the same to the beginners, and so forth up the line.

That's a ways down the line though. Right now, I'm thinking like a high shool aged group would be good. They are very trainable, and become loyal easily. AND they are big enough to feed me attacks so I get some practice too.

[Losttrak]

Sure, if they follow instructions and are respectful to other kids, it is very energizing. However, I have frequently had a very different experience. =p

[GeneChing]

...I took more injuries teaching kids than any other part of my training. Mostly because I'd show how not to do something or not warm up properly. Some people are naturals at teaching kids. Not I. I sucked at it. I did train one national champion kid, Michael Louie, but he had a lot of raw talent and those were one-on-one private lessons.

As for the schools that make $100,000 a month, my hat is off to them. Just do the math - let's say $100 tuition per month and that's 1000 students. That's a big freaking school. But then again, let's say another $100 in gear/hidden costs. So we're still talking 500 students. Then again, we could work out something like $500 black belt exams (not unheard of) and tip the scales some more. But you have to subtract out operating costs, rent, electricity, insurance, all sorts of things. In our 2003 Shaolin Special (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=397), I interviewed GM Liu Baoshan, headmaster of Taguo, which had 13,000 students at the time (now it has more). I asked him what his secret was. He said, "To be a shcool heamaster, you have to consider every expense. Students need instructors. For cleaning, you need to buy at least one broom. Just getting rid of the trash is a huge expense." That's where a lot of schools fail. They don't calculate how much it costs to get rid of the trash.

If you want to make big money teaching martial arts, the secret isn't kids, marketing, contracts or products. The real secret moneymaker is privates. When you have the reputation that you can charge several hundred for your private lessons, you can get bank.

[Losttrak]

"The real secret moneymaker is privates."

What sort of school was this!?!?!? :eek:

Why not specialize in private lessons at a gym, rec center, or similar fitness institution, and cut the overhead of having to lease your own place? I mean, if thats where the money is....

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not sure the big $$ is in priviate lessons. When I did this before, I catered to kids, because I'm good at teaching them. At Champion youth we often had 65-75 a night at $6.00 a head. That's almost $400.00 a night from the local. Times that by 3 times a week, and it adds up. Unfortunetly, I only got $1.00 per student as my commision, but on my own, if I could grow it that bg, it would ll be mine.

Now, on my own I usually had about 20 a night once a week, and then 10 a night two other times. I was paying $12.00 an hour for 2 hours to rent a Grade school gym at the time. Equipment sales pretty much covered my insurance. This was with minimal advertising, and mostly from dropping flyers at 3 local grade schools, including the one I taught at. Summers were slower though, I useually only had about 8 students.

I think a good marketing plan would have to bring me enough to at least make a livng in time.

I have been looking, I found a marketing outfit that does a local buisness/community news mailer that is delivered to 5400 homes in the area I'm looking to teach in. A double buisness card sized ad is $75.00 to ALL the residences in the township. For another $130.00, they will ad my flyers to the mailer for me. Tomorrow, I will see if I can find similar in surrounding communities.

In the meantime, activly investigateing my options has me reviewing my entire Tai Tzu system again, so this is at least motivateing me to practice in ernest again, wich is, in large part, why I'm doing this again. :)

[Royal Dragon]

If you want to make big money teaching martial arts, the secret isn't kids, marketing, contracts or products. The real secret moneymaker is privates. When you have the reputation that you can charge several hundred for your private lessons, you can get bank.

Reply]
You know Gene, in all honesty, I think it's a bit of everything. It's going to be a long time before I could build the type of rep needed to get much more than maybe $50.00 for a priviate. I need to cater to the main streem crowd who's looking for a cool way to stay active, and learn some sound selfdefense methods. I'm not in a position to run a hard core fight club, and I'm certianly not of Chinese decent from a well known, and prestigious lineage. I have to cater to what I do have, and can do. For me, that means mainstream programs, kids Kung Fu, Tai Chi for health, and recreational Kung Fu and self defense programs.

But ultimately for now I want a small core group that will fund itself so "I" have people to feed me attacks so "I" get practice in my system. In return I'm going to teach them the results of my research into Tai Tzu since 1998, and Chao Tai Chi if they want.

[SPJ]

Where there is a will, there is a way. So they say.

I think an affiliation with a high school, a church, a youth organization, or a gym etc. would help you to have "core" students.

My brother used to start by teaching Tai Chi for free in the church and nearby community center. And then he was more known. He would recruit the students for more intensive and other Kung Fu lessons from the same pool of students in the church and community center.

Eventually, he had his own private Kuo Shu Guan in Taipei, Taiwan. And he still taught free Tai Chi in the church.

Best of luck.

:)

[FightingGorilla]

I want to offer one more +1 for teaching kids. My steson has his onw Kung Fu school, and has a kid's class that numbers 60 kids. He also lives in a city of only about 5,000 people... !!!

Parents like to take their children to a martial arts school. They hope it will teach their child discipline and respect. I really hope you will look into the very positive vibes of extending yourself back into teaching children's classes. You have even admitted that you are good at it...

If a house is built, and I were to build it, and there was a house framer who wanted to work for me... I would be very wise to hire the house framer. There is a saying "you can't beat a man at his trade"... If you are really good at something, it is money in the bank.

Also... it might help to take some business classes at a local community college. Many martial artists are highly skilled martial artists, but they do not know anything about business. It is not hard, but I would highly recommend it. Would you go into a fight untrained? Then why would you open a business with no busniess training? Just a thought.

I wish you the best in your endeavor. Please post here with your future resylts.

This thread caught my eye because I live in Ann Arbor. I'll have to go check out this "$100,000-a-month" school... I have already done a Google search on Keith Hafner, and I found out his school also has a web page... it is here:
http://www.karateisgoodforyou.com/

Not only that, but check out this approach to kids (he seems to take children very seriously, not just a view of "kids = money"...):
http://www.rocksolidkids.com/index.html

Before I went to his web site, I was going to post and encourage you about teaching kids. Now, look at his web page and see the emphasis he is giving to his kid's class.

Someone above said: "martial arts + kids = money" but it (appears at least) that Keith Hafner is really taking a civic-type role in reaching out to kids. There may be something to this. You mentioned wanting to reach high school kids with your art... well, in a few years, those younger children will be the BASE of your high school students, and will draw more high school level kids in as well.

Businesses are run for profit. You can have underlying other goals, but if you don't make a profit, you won't succeed or last very long. I learned that businesses are run for profit in a business class in a community college. Full circle back to that, I would invest some time and money in trying to take some business classes. Some colleges even have an Associate degree in Business. You have belts, etc... from martial arts... that piece of paper is another good credential to have. And the skills and business sense you learn along the way will help your martial arts school immensely.

Yes, it is "partially" true: "martial arts + kids = money"
But this is even more true, and even better wisdom to follow:
"Good busniess practices = profit/money"

You can learn the best business practices by being humble enough to study business at a community college. Yes, it takes time, but it is an investment you will never regret.

Wish you the best,



FightingGorilla

[Lama Pai Sifu]

There are lots of ways to 'skin a cat' (be successful in the martial arts business).

You should find a mentor; someone who is close to you or you know well that does what you want to do. It's easy to listen to everyone here (who is not actually a school owner) about their 'ideas'.

Find a school owner that makes good/great money and does what he loves to do.

Also, try to find a KUNG FU school owner as well. Not that you can't learn a lot from Karate or TKD school owners, (I know I have), but find someone who has a similiar MA background.

I will tell you that I do not think that "PRIVATE LESSONS" are the ticket. And, merchandise is a only a small portion of your monthly gross. It's just regular martial art memberships, that's all.

I base my opinion on my experience as a Kung-Fu School owner/operator with 15 years in the business. The school I am sitting in right now earns $500,000 per year (Approx. $40,000 +, per month) I also keep (net) about 35% of that annual amount. (not including other schools)

I am not offering to be your mentor. I am just giving you advise that might be of use to you.

And succesful school don't use membership agreements (contracts) to get people to continue to pay, even if they quit. Most people DON'T pay, once they stop coming to class, contract or no contract. Again, this is heresay from people who are not school owners.

"Don't give your money to a coal miner, who tells you about an investment idea he has, for a diamond mine." In other words, stick to listening to people who know about the field of discussion, not those who 'think' they know.

No disrespect for anyone else who has tried to give him advice. I realize you are all trying to help.

[yutyeesam]

Media and referrals can be the best source of low cost marketing. Contact local publications' community/features/fitness-health editors and tell them about Tai Tzu, your research with it, and why it is so unique compared to the other arts currently available. See if they can run a piece on you.

And, offer to be a guest columnist for any of these publications as well, writing about martial arts.

If you have even one person who can be a partner with you, maybe consider doing some sort of MA demo/exhibition at a mall or some such for a charity you care about. When you do charities, the media feels more compelled to cover such events. Especially if there's a college or community radio station, you can send them a PSA (public service announcement) regarding your event.

Getting people to your door is the hardest thing, and that basically means for you to expose yourself to the community. Besides flyering the he11 out of town, make a lot of media contacts, and try to emmerse yourself with them.