guy in class is going to hurt someone.

[Chief Fox]

Ok, so there's this guy in class. He's a lower rank than me and not at my skill level. He's an older male teen and he's home schooled. Lets call him "Asswipe". Also in my class there is a married couple. The married couple are my friends and all three of us are at the same level.

So, when I spar "Asswipe" I try to control the round and basically show him where his openings are. He trys to sweep me a lot but I can see it coming a mile away. The last time he and I sparred he attempted to kick me in the knee. My knee was bent and my leg was rooted. So when he kicked me he hurt his foot. (he doesn't wear shoes for some reason).

When he spars my male friend it goes pretty much the same way.

BUT when "Asswipe" spars my friends wife, he uses his size advantage against her and has taken her down a couple times. We don't have mats.

My friend's wife has excellent technique and speed but she lacks strength so "Asswipe" over powers her even though he has poor technique.

Basically "Asswipe" lacks control and while my friend and I can handle his lack of control I think that he is eventually going to hurt my friend's wife. Another thing is, he seeks her out to spar her. I suspect that because she is a higher rank that he is doing this to make himself feel better. Not really sure.

I've told her to refuse to spar the guy but I'm tempted to talk to "Asswipe" about it. My friend on the other hand is ready to kill the guy.

Any thoughts?

[PangQuan]

I think you will be a good interseptor here. Dont let the husband handle it, he will kill the little @sswipe. I think as he seeks out her to sparr, you should seek out him to sparr. Sounds like he needs to find out what humility is.

[gwa sow]

just make sure he finds out what humility is when he is looking up at you from the floor.

[wdl]

PQ's right. Intervene and don't let him spar her. Maybe get one or two others in class that recognize the problem to help you. That way you can control the situation.

People like "Asswipe" give homeschoolers bad names. I was homeschooled 1st through 12th grade. Started in 1985 years before it became almost a "pop culture" thing in suburbia. Personally, I'd wipe the ground with him just for being a douche bag homeschooler. They **** me off.

-Will

[PangQuan]

"Asswipe" !!

edit: just wanted to see if it would let me say it too.

[red5angel]

What's the goal of your sparring? If it's to focus on technique then make sure he is clear on that. If it's not what's the problem?

[Ray Pina]

Sounds like the technique is working when someone of closer size and power utilizes it but not when someone of less stature and power does ..... might be time to overwhole the technique.

What happens if you face a guy who is as disproportinate in size to you as he is to her?

You may also want to check out the last few pages of the thread about instructor's bodies, some posts about girls training in there.

[wdl]

What's the goal of your sparring? If it's to focus on technique then make sure he is clear on that. If it's not what's the problem?

The only problem I see is if he's getting his jollys off by over powering a weaker opponent. If he's doing it so that she learns to adjust and defend, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it doesn't sound like things are in that context.

-Will

[Chief Fox]

What's the goal of your sparring? If it's to focus on technique then make sure he is clear on that. If it's not what's the problem?

The goal is to use the techniques that we are taught in class. Not to take down and potentially hurt a class mate that you have probably close to 100lbs on.

[red5angel]

So why hasn't your instructor stepped in to explain this to him? Give him a time out if they have and he's not listening. My instructors have never had a problem pulling someone out of sparring until they get the message that they need to be more respectful and follow the lesson plan

[Starchaser107]

Introduce him to the CORRECTIVE FISTS OF HUMILITY Chief Fox!

[bigdoing]

Communication is a great tool, when it fails, I would use another. Hammer fist.

I sure you'll reslove your issue with out any problems.

On the lighter side heres a story of another a$$wipe.

One of my kung fu brothers was teaching a few private students at his place. One on the students was this guy whos job is a knight at midevil times. For those that are not in the southern california area, it is a re-enactment entertainment and dinner, with jousting and the likes. A$$wipe plays a knight in the show, he really thinks he is a gd knight.

He was sparring my friend who is his teacher, his teacher was going light on him, just as the above post mentioned "to expose openings" and all that stuff. The knight landed a solid kick on my teahers ribs and was infected with a case of a swollen head. After that incedent he really thought he was the "man".

His techers cousin is an ex mlb pitcher, bit guy 6'4 300lbs. So this the pitcher was sparring the knight and caught him in the chest with a chop choy. The knight had the wind knocked out of him, got up after getting his wind back, punched a hole in the stucko wall (he must have felt so strong!!) cursed a strom, stomped out and never came back.

peace
bryan.

[PangQuan]

If your school is anything like my school. We are stressed to show how we can use kung fu in a fight, through sparring environment. This means using skill, and technique.

[BeiTangLang]

Why hasn't someone just worked with his wife a little harder to enable her to kick his ass??

Teach a man to fish,.....

[PangQuan]

Thats just it, Im pretty sure in a sparring session during a class, and "ass kicking" would probably be out of line.

[red5angel]

Introduce him to the CORRECTIVE FISTS OF HUMILITY Chief Fox!


I like this idea. go with it. When someone gets out of hand in the roda at my class the instructors and higher up students get in and sort of take him for a ride. It usually mellows them out a bit.

[X-Warrior]

Introduce him to the CORRECTIVE FISTS OF HUMILITY Chief Fox!

Yeah, martial arts is not for show off or beat/humiliate the weaker. Sounds like the guy needs some lessons.

Talk to him or show him the school of hard fist. If he continues after that, I would just kick him out; otherwise he will use his skills elsewhere the same way.

-X-

[Chief Fox]

What happens if you face a guy who is as disproportinate in size to you as he is to her?


I see what you're getting at here. When i spar a smaller or less experienced opponent. My goal is to always successfully use my techniques. Never to hurt someone. "Asswipe" has taken down my friends wife twice with no regard for her safety at all.

The first time, it was a two on one sparring match where she had to spar two larger people at once. She circled around and was trying to better her position when "Asswipe" lunges in and kicks her in the ankle. She flys up in the air comes down and lands on all fours. In my opinion the only purpose behind this was to try to humiliate and possibly hurt her.

[PangQuan]

Dharma is a good opener to this situation. Just try and keep him from sparring the mans wife. When sparring is done at our school, Sifu decides who sparrs who, and under what conditions. Try and bring something like this into play. If you can control who he sparrs, this problem will mellow out. With correct action on your part and his seniors, he can be shown the better path. This reminds me of something said by a wise man.

"Just because one has strayed from the path is no reason for us to turn our backs on him."

The way is always there, and the option to return is always possible. With the correct form of guidance he will be shown the light. You said he is a teen. This says alot in its self. He is still a kid. With correct nurturing he can turn into a good man.

[Chief Fox]

Why hasn't someone just worked with his wife a little harder to enable her to kick his ass??

Teach a man to fish,.....

I agree, and to be honest, she is a little reluctant to use force or make full contact. Although she has kicked me in the face more than once. My friend and I are trying to get her to make more contact. She is making progress but she is still intimidated, and rightly so, by a guy who is almost twice her size.

[Ming Yue]

I had almost the exact same situation at my school a few years ago, here's what worked then:

get into a conversation with him and someone else (or a group) about sparring. Bring up the fact that it's sad when people only want to spar folks they know they can beat, say something about how it's an obvious attempt to look better then they are and how nobody benefits from it... so on and so forth. Mention how you only really enjoy sparring when it's against someone better than you, because then you learn something and it makes you a better fighter. Don't point fingers at him, of course.. just make him feel like you assume he already knows this stuff....

He does not want to been seen as a loser... it's pretty obvious he has more ego than smarts, so appeal to his desire to look cool by showing him that it's lame to take the easy fight every time.

as my first teacher used to say, don't beat him down if you can more easily lift him up.


(yea my first teacher was corny as hell, but I loved him) :)

[Ray Pina]

I hear ya. But this is a martial arts class and it sounds like you guys wanted to simulate a 2 man attack on a single woman..... sounds like she got off easy if you ask me (not trying to be a di(k here, just speaking frankly)

I think you guys have to think about what it is you want. Do you want to develop technique to counter certain situations or do you guys just want to get together and throw some kicks and punches and have a good work out?

If you want the first one, you should study how was this guy able to do that? Why couldn't she keep the attackers in front? Did she become immobile?

Also, the thing I'd be concerned about is level of intensity. If you guys set a 70% level of intensity and he picks it up to 100%, then the most advanced should get involved right away and say, "If you want to go full, please play with me."

But you expressed this woman is of a "higher level". Well, if that's the case, she needs to defend herself. And if a "bully" in class is causing her problems what will a bully on the street do.

These are tough questions. But people need to realise martial arts aren't for everyone. It's a bit like football. You can add flags and reduce the violence by 90% but it's not the same thing. You can train and tell everyone to take it easy, but something is being lost.

Don't put people in contact situations until they have the tools. Once they do let them go but control the action, break it as soon as someone dominates but I think it's important to be pushed and hurt (not injured) occassionally.

[Chief Fox]

So why hasn't your instructor stepped in to explain this to him? Give him a time out if they have and he's not listening. My instructors have never had a problem pulling someone out of sparring until they get the message that they need to be more respectful and follow the lesson plan

Not sure, I think he expects my friend and I will take care of it. I'll have to ask him.

[PangQuan]

as my first teacher used to say, don't beat him down if you can more easily lift him up.

Thats what im talking about!!

[Chief Fox]

I hear ya. But this is a martial arts class and it sounds like you guys wanted to simulate a 2 man attack on a single woman..... sounds like she got off easy if you ask me (not trying to be a di(k here, just speaking frankly)

I think you guys have to think about what it is you want. Do you want to develop technique to counter certain situations or do you guys just want to get together and throw some kicks and punches and have a good work out?

If you want the first one, you should study how was this guy able to do that? Why couldn't she keep the attackers in front? Did she become immobile?

Also, the thing I'd be concerned about is level of intensity. If you guys set a 70% level of intensity and he picks it up to 100%, then the most advanced should get involved right away and say, "If you want to go full, please play with me."

But you expressed this woman is of a "higher level". Well, if that's the case, she needs to defend herself. And if a "bully" in class is causing her problems what will a bully on the street do.

These are tough questions. But people need to realise martial arts aren't for everyone. It's a bit like football. You can add flags and reduce the violence by 90% but it's not the same thing. You can train and tell everyone to take it easy, but something is being lost.

Don't put people in contact situations until they have the tools. Once they do let them go but control the action, break it as soon as someone dominates but I think it's important to be pushed and hurt (not injured) occassionally.

You make some great points and I don't think you're being a di(k. Maybe I'm just a little protective. She does need to be a little more agressive and not be afraid to hit or hurt someone. Maybe the problem isn't his. Maybe it's mine. I'll continue to work with her on her sparring so she can become a better fighter.

But I also think that he goes a little too far when sparring her.

[Chief Fox]

He does not want to been seen as a loser... it's pretty obvious he has more ego than smarts, so appeal to his desire to look cool by showing him that it's lame to take the easy fight every time.

as my first teacher used to say, don't beat him down if you can more easily lift him up.


Ming, this is excellent advice. Thank you. I don't want to ridicule him or humiliate him. I certainly don't want him to leave the school. I guess I could take the high road and work with him more.

[red5angel]

Not sure, I think he expects my friend and I will take care of it. I'll have to ask him.


That's not your responsibility. As the instructor of the school he's responsible for making people follow the rules, especialy when it comes to making sure people aren't a danger to other students.

[Chief Fox]

That's not your responsibility. As the instructor of the school he's responsible for making people follow the rules, especialy when it comes to making sure people aren't a danger to other students.

I agree, he may not be aware of the situation. I'll bring it up to him.

[SevenStar]

the world is full of people like asswipe. his problem is that he's doing what he can - getting away with using his strength advantage. Now, there is nothing inderently wrong with that, as that is exactly what he wants to do. BUT, you want to do it with technique, that way you still learn. My guess is that asswipe would do ANYONE that he had a physical advantage over, or who has less skill. The way to deal with this type of person is simple - beat on him. Pair him with people that will kick his ass from your school to the shaolin temple. He needs his ego to be checked.

[ninthdrunk]

I used to beat the hel! out of one of my students that had a hard time keeping control. He was an excellent fighter. He knew full well how to exploit all of his advantages. I found that me beating on him didn't do much. Finally, I just told him that if he didn't learn to calm down, he wasn't going to spar for six months. He calmed down, stopped hitting people, and his sparring got better for it. When he and I would spar (and a few others) I would let him go harder and man, he was a like a beast uncaged...only with some really skill behind it that he had developed through controlled sparring.

Just trying to play devil's advocate here. It's quite possible that beating this guy down will just make him more of an "asswipe" because he will think it's acceptable after an upper belt does it to him.


Kinda like beating your kid for hitting another little kid...

[red5angel]

absolutely, tell him first if that doesn't fix the problem, beat him til he get's it.

[Chief Fox]

I really want to thank everyone for their suggestions and recommendations.

Here's what I'm going to do.

1. Suggest to my friends wife that she doesn't spar with "Asswipe" until she feels ready.
2. Work with my friend and his wife to improve all of our sparring.
3. Talk to my Sifu about the situation.
4. Spar more with "Asswipe" so he can learn the proper way.
5. If he doesn't learn the proper way, beat the proper way into him.

Any other suggestions? Am I missing something?

[red5angel]

6. Hit him in the head with a baseball bat.

[PangQuan]

How did I know red was going to say something like that.

[Chief Fox]

One more thing.

7. Kick Red's mom out of my bed and send her on her way.

[red5angel]

How did I know red was going to say something like that.


cause next to GDA I'm the most tasteless and tactless sob on this forum?



7. Kick Red's mom out of my bed and send her on her way.

you wish you could kick that hard

[rogue]

The way to deal with this type of person is simple - beat on him. Pair him with people that will kick his ass from your school to the shaolin temple. He needs his ego to be checked.
I agree with 7*, some people need to learn the hard way, and especially teenage boys. Part of the problem is that they have something to prove to themselves. I've had to deal with this a few times when some newb would pick me as a stepping stone in his climb up the ladder, and smacking them down ASAP always worked. Establish that you will protect the weaker ones and that he's down the schools food chain. Make sure that you try and talk with him afterwards not about smacking him down but about school for example. Twice I've had my versions of AW turn into very good students.

[David Jamieson]

I would suggest the woman trains to counter asswipes fav techs, and gets a few lessons on the side to teach asswipe that she isn't an easy target.

So, if your friends wife will put in the extra time and effort, if she is advanced, she can turn teh situation around and school asswipe herself. Running to her rescue isn't going to do anything for either of their development. She has to learn too.
Asswipe, is just being asswipe. and asswipe is as asswipe does.

there is a real opportunity for the girl and asswipe here.

[PangQuan]

So what you need to do is beat on the wife. then when the sh!t rolls downhill she can beat on asswipe.

[Royal Dragon]

KL,
You beat me to it!! I was going to sugjest thatyou guys get together on the side, and coach her as nessasary to totally dominate Asswipe herself.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

cause next to GDA I'm the most tasteless and tactless sob on this forum?


thanks man.


That's not your responsibility. As the instructor of the school he's responsible for making people follow the rules, especialy when it comes to making sure people aren't a danger to other students.

i agree with that as well. my sifu used to send in one of our senior students who was just a hair shorter than me at 5'4'' to fix the problem. kid had awesome technique and could punch like a mule. the time that sticks out the most in my mind was almost the exact same situation ... some new guy to the class that must have went 250 was getting a real kick out of tossing around some of our newer students including a girl. our sifu sent up ryan in the middle of one of the sparring matches and the guy almost laughed cause he pretty much understood what was going on, but didnt understand why ryan was in front of him and not our teacher or one of our apes his size. he hit 3 out of 4 of our walls for sure and never came back.

[edit] and once was from a friggen shoulder strike. ryan made it very very clear to the guy that he was toying with him and the harder he came the harder he went flyin back.

[Mr Punch]

I really want to thank everyone for their suggestions and recommendations.

Here's what I'm going to do.

1. Suggest to my friends wife that she doesn't spar with "Asswipe" until she feels ready.
2. Work with my friend and his wife to improve all of our sparring.
3. Talk to my Sifu about the situation.
4. Spar more with "Asswipe" so he can learn the proper way.
5. If he doesn't learn the proper way, beat the proper way into him.

Any other suggestions? Am I missing something?Sounds like you've got a good plan there.

One thing you may have missed is to talk to the guy himself. If he's a home-schooler he should be a little more adept at getting the point without being spoonfed. Make sure he knows the purpose of sparring.

How you approach this may be difficult. As you have implied, there may be different reasons for the different kinds of sparring you do. Make sure these are clearly defined to him. For example, with the three person sparring, maybe you are doing it more for positional advantage and openings, in which case you need to tell him that it doesn't have to be full contact, and he can just tap her to show her that she'd lost position or was too open.

You may want to ask your sifu to talk about limiting the techs used until the guy has more control. Again this doesn't have to be a challenge to his ego, you can just say for example, "Take the sweep to the point of balance where the only logical conclusion is that she is going down." like a checkmate. You can point out to him that this shows he has more control and is getting the hang of the tech but also has the ability to stop it, change it or defuse the situation if he needs to.

And as far as schooling him in the Fist of Humility goes, if you don't want to antagonize him so he leaves you can do that diplomatically too. Eg, when you are watching his sweep techs on the woman, take over the next sparring and say, "Well that's good but it has a few weaknesses like..." then get him to try it on you, counter it and put him on his ass. Then again you can suggest that if he takes it to the point of balance he can show he has the control.

[red5angel]

thanks man.

I can only hope to one day reach your level of mastery....

[norther practitioner]

Originally Posted by Chief Fox
I really want to thank everyone for their suggestions and recommendations.

Here's what I'm going to do.

1. Suggest to my friends wife that she doesn't spar with "Asswipe" until she feels ready.
2. Work with my friend and his wife to improve all of our sparring.
3. Talk to my Sifu about the situation.
4. Spar more with "Asswipe" so he can learn the proper way.
5. If he doesn't learn the proper way, beat the proper way into him.

Any other suggestions? Am I missing something?


.

looks like a good plan...

I could bring down a wringer too... lol, that would be funny... a couple new guys show up....

[Shaolinlueb]

just make sure he finds out what humility is when he is looking up at you from the floor.


yeah sounds like this guy need to be humbled a bit.

[Ming Yue]

you wish you could kick that hard


are you calling your own mom fat? you are tactless.

:D


I'm just sayin', you know, cause I've heard she's so big she could jump up in the air and get stuck.

[cerebus]

LOL! I hadn't heard that one before... :D :p

[Chief Fox]

::Asswipe Update::
AW wasn't too bad today in class. Of course my friend's wife wasn't there though. I worked some drills with AW and went over a staff form with him, then was showing him how to do a kip up.

I didn't get chance to spar with him. I'm trying to take the high road.

[Becca]

The high road's the only way to go. You beat him down, he will assume that is the right way to go about it. A while back, like 2 years or so ago, we were having the same problem. I tried to go after the worst of them, a then-14-year-old kid with lots of strength but no control. I fugured getting beat up by the smallest woman in the class who was almost twice his age would straiten him out... I was dead wrong. He didn't stop going too hard on the ones who couldn't take it; he just started going harder on me.

Sifu asked me after class one night why I seemed to be almost calling this kid out. I explained to him why. He didn't say much at the time, but he did start watching the kid, as well as the other offenders much more closely.

About 2 months later, sifu sat us all down and asked us how we felt when someone beat on us instead of practicing our technique.... To make a long story short, he made everyone who was acting out feel like they'd failed him and themselves. two of them actually quit over it, but most took his words to heart.

He then passed on to use these rules for sparring in his class. Any one found violating them would be asked to leave, as we were suposed to be a family and that sort of behavior was detrimental to family coheasion.

1. If sparring someone who was known to not like being hit hard, don't hit hard. Practice controll, instead.

2. If sparring someone who didn't mind being hit hard, but was still bellow us in skill, us the spar to fine tune our controll.

3. If sparring some one above us in skill, let loose with some difficult combination we wanted to perfect, but warn the other person first. If they are truely better than one's self, they will be able to controll the match so no one gets hurt.

4. never aproach a match as if you have nothing to learn from it. If you do, you won't. Even if all you get from it is better patientce, you still learned something.

[ZIM]

::Asswipe Update::
AW wasn't too bad today in class. Of course my friend's wife wasn't there though. I worked some drills with AW and went over a staff form with him, then was showing him how to do a kip up.

I didn't get chance to spar with him. I'm trying to take the high road.
Really. Now that's getting more data in.

-He's aggressive because she's present
-He's aggressive because he knows he can overpower her
-He [perhaps unconsciously] regards her as an opportunity

Come to your own conclusions. My guess is there's some pent-up sexual thing going on. Give some thought to that angle and see if it fits.

If so, there are constructive ways to go about fixing it. Basically he needs direction on what being a man & a standup guy is all about.