full contact point sparring???

[Becca]

Have any of you ever read the rules for the Sabaki Full Contack Karate Turnament? (http://sabaki.enshin.com/)

I was interested and was thinking about going just to check it out. The rules section was a bit amusing. What they call "full contact" is what we call point sparring in my school. True full contact would not disallow hits to the face, IMO.

What'd you guys think? Would it be worth $25 to go see, or would it be like evry other Karate event?

[cerebus]

Well, I don't know what the rules set that you read says, but the Sabaki Challenge is the real deal. I've seen some of their matches and they are pretty interesting.

The ones I saw were 3 rounds per fight. The first round was full-contact karate with no pads. No hand blows are allowed to the head, but punches to the body and kicks and knee strikes to the head, body & legs are all allowed as are throws & takedowns. Knockouts are not uncommon.

The second round, the fighters put on boxing gloves and fight according to Thai Kickboxing rules (minus elbow strikes).

The final round (for those who make it there) the fighters put on MMA gloves and fight under NHB match rules, including grappling and submissions.

It's pretty cool stuff.

[wdl]

Odd, but it doesn't sound like a typical karate point sparring match. I didn't see in the rules were they break between points. It says the points are cumulative.

"One point will be awarded to a fighter who causes his opponent to turn away after a stunning kick to the head."

Sounds like they allow head contact Becca, granted it doesn't say punch only kick, which is very TKDish.

-Will

[cerebus]

Wellll, it's like boxing. If you don't knock the guy out and the match lasts the full number of rounds, then the decision is made by points. Same as with any full-contact Karate match.

[cerebus]

I see from looking at the link that Becca posted that they don't say anything about the alternate rules that were being used for rounds 2 & 3 when I saw it a few years back. The method described on the website is the same format as is used in Kyokushin Karate (Ninomiya being an ex-Kyokushin guy). Any of you ever watch "Fighting Black Kings"?

[cerebus]

And "YouKnowWho", you CAN grab his kicking leg & throw him. You just can't do the knee drop on his groin after... :p

[Becca]

Cool! I think I will go, then. I just didn't want to fork over $25 per person to watch borring, plain-jane point sparring. :cool:

[cerebus]

Let us know what you think of it afterwards. ;)

[rogue]

cerebus, I think you were describing Shidokan not sabaki.

[norther practitioner]

I was thinking about going... my b-day is thursday, so I was thinking of buying a ticket as a b-day present to myself.

[cerebus]

Hey Rogue, I do believe you're right! I get all the various Kyokushin offshoots mixed up sometimes. But still, the Sabaki guys follow the Kyokushin format (the "bare-knuckle" full contact, not the Muay Thai & NHB stuff like Shidokan), so it's pretty cool (and you sometimes see some pretty impressive knockouts).

[wdl]

Interesting, sounds almost violent.

-Will

[BeiTangLang]

I couldn't get past that stinking music long enough to read all the rules! LOL!

[IronFist]

Wow, that site had annoying music.

[chessman71]

Where I live, we get lots of Kyokushin fights from Japan on TV. At first, I was really excited to see these but they quickly became boring. I guess the rules are set up to prevent reverse punches to head, but when you take the most devastating karate move out, the competition quickly becomes boring to watch.

Most of the fights involve lots of punching to the body that no one even tries to block. Being Kyokushin guys, they're usually tough enough to take that. The only way to really score a knockout, then, is a kick to the head which everyone is on the lookout for. So it degenerates into who can get in the headkick first.

Not very interesting in my opinion but good enough for a one-time look.

Dave C.

[Becca]

It wouldn't have been quite so bad if it had been more than a 2 second clip in a continuous loop. :p

[Becca]

It was still just point sparring, but with the nice touch of getting to see some very spectacular head kicks.

They did stop between points, but no real break; they just lined up to resume- no time for any real breather. there were 4 classes: light, middle, heavy, and mixed womens. The game plan for most all of the competetors seemed to be a bit conservitive. While they did go for sweeps that qualified for points, most were actually using the "win by desision" route. Meaning I saw far more 0 piont throws that were less prone to back-fireing than sweeps. (throws didn't seem to earn any points) One TKO (6 points in the first round), 3 matches that won by 3 points, anf the rest were decided by judges. This was only the main event. I won't bore you with a blow-by-blow of the prelims and quarter finals.

One thing I did notice was illistrated by the TKO match. Everyone I saw, women excepted, left themselves wide open below mid chest. The women didn't seem to be effectively blocking anything. They were obviously setting up to protect against head kicks. But the German guy, who was a good, solid-looking technition BTW, had the bad luck of being matched up with the one guy who went for the floater ribs. He just didn't adapt fast enough to this apparently "new" stratagy and got his bum handed to him in less than 2 minuts. The winner of that match went on to win the middle weight class.

The stretch between the semifinals and the finals was good. We were firts treated to door prizes, then a nice demo from a group of kids, ages 6-12, led by the grand master of the Enshin orginization. Then a sward demo, followed by a two swardsmen-against-one-unarmed person demo. The finale of the demo part was the grand master breaking a loosely held heavy ceramic coffee mug then 5 stacked 75-bl blocks of ice.

I must add, though, that the best part was watching them clean up after the final demo. I think they picked event staff by who had the best bums in the dojo... ;) :D

[cerebus]

LOL! And her favorite part is checking the booties on the dudes cleaning up after the demos!!! :D ROFL!! Anyway, if you ever get the chance to check a Shidokan event (which is the one where they fight under a different format each round) check it out. I thought it was very interesting. I find it unusual that the Sabaki guys stop after each "point". The old Kyokushin matches never did that. Oh well. Sounds like it was fun anyway (sorry you didn't get to see any cool knockouts though).

[Becca]

It started out pretty intence, but by the quarter final rounds, the competitors seemed to be getting a bit conservitive in their stratagy. I was good sound fighting, though. Nothing wrong with fighting the safe way(i.e. establishing yourself as the better fighter so the judges were more likely to side with you on a desision) It never got borring. OMG, the number of save I saw! Those Karate guys must know a bajillion ways to keep an opponant from throwing or sweeping them! :cool:


And it is not my fault almost all the event staff had nice rear views. But I am not above noticing or giving credit where credit is due... :D

[red5angel]

Wait a minute. They allow kicks and knees to the face but no punches?

[SevenStar]

Have any of you ever read the rules for the Sabaki Full Contack Karate Turnament? (http://sabaki.enshin.com/)

I was interested and was thinking about going just to check it out. The rules section was a bit amusing. What they call "full contact" is what we call point sparring in my school. True full contact would not disallow hits to the face, IMO.

What'd you guys think? Would it be worth $25 to go see, or would it be like evry other Karate event?


kyokushin doesn't allow face contact either - but the contact level is far above that of what you would see in point sparring.

[Ray Pina]

I've done this type of fighting and after a while it becomes masterbation......

They don't "stop" the action, but if you get a few good hits in the guy is sure to run out of the taped ring and the action stops and you restart.

Every one of these I've been in do not allow you to strike the face .... only the side of the head and with light contact.

These are the two basic rules. Some tournaments have more, like no capturing the leg, etc., etc., etc. The weight classes also tend to be VERY vague, almost a S, M and L. Large being 190lbs and up.

Under this format it's a waste of time to wait 5 hours through forms so you can spar but if you get going well the guy runs out of the ring. Or he's bigger than you and you can't strike him were it counts so he chases you out. Or you do real well and they kick you out.

So, if you are at a yellow to purple or low brown level, I say go for it .... you'll learn timing and distancing and get to scrap it up abit. After that, you'll probbally only reinforce bad habits.

Sorry to bring you down if you were stoked on this. There's good sides to it to: meeting different artists and watching forms, etc. but it's a long day to get kicked out.

[Becca]

Nope, them kicks to the head were full force. But even an accidental touch to the face was a warning... But then again, this was Karate, not San Sou. That's why I wanted to go- to see what it was realy like rather than listen to other people who may not be giving the most unbiased of answers.

I definantly enjoyed it, and I it is going to be in Denver again next year, I will go again. :)

[red5angel]

Nope, them kicks to the head were full force. But even an accidental touch to the face was a warning... But then again, this was Karate, not San Sou. That's why I wanted to go- to see what it was realy like rather than listen to other people who may not be giving the most unbiased of answers.

I definantly enjoyed it, and I it is going to be in Denver again next year, I will go again. :)


glad you enjoy it. I still don't get why it's ok to kick some dude in the face but not punch him.

[SevenStar]

if I'm not mistaken, you can only kick to the side of the head, not the face. However, that raises the question, can you punch to the side of the head?

[FngSaiYuk]

glad you enjoy it. I still don't get why it's ok to kick some dude in the face but not punch him.

I think it's 'cuz punches are faster than kicks and are perhaps considered too easy of a technique to allow people to abuse. Basically there's the potential for it turning into a mainly boxing match (which a lot of old kickboxing fights were like - mostly boxing, w/a few kicks to make sure they met the minimum kick quota).

[Becca]

if I'm not mistaken, you can only kick to the side of the head, not the face. However, that raises the question, can you punch to the side of the head?
They did a demo-thing inwith they acted out the rules as they explained them. Basicly no hand strikes to the head and neck, On strikes of any kind to the face, groin, or front of the knee. No grappling of any kind. No chokes. No holding the head... Anything else goes. :rolleyes: :D

[LeeCasebolt]

My understanding is that the "no punches to the head" rule is in place to minimize cuts and broken hands, both serious considerations in bare-knuckle amateur (?) tournaments.

[Becca]

They were not allowed to were any protetive gear, so that is a good bet. Honestly, The action didn't suffer for the lack of punches to the face. I wouldn't have minded seeing some grappling, but hey. This was Karate, not BJJ or San Sao, right?

[JusticeZero]

That 'running out of the ring' thing was what upset me the most. It might be more an aesthetic from my art, but exiting the ring for any reason whatsoever should count against you fairly heavily. I'd have respected it more if stepping out of bounds counted the same as if you'd been hit with a 'stunning' head kick.

[Ray Pina]

glad you enjoy it. I still don't get why it's ok to kick some dude in the face but not punch him.


I know their reasoning is that it's not see easy to kick the head, but it gets a lot easier when you can't trap that kick, kick the supporting leg or charge in and beat their face .... why can they treat your head like a soccer ball but you can't treat their's like avolley ball?

Why do some grapplers think its OK to roll with you and possibly break your elbow or shoulder with a lock but you can't break their nose with a punch?

Masterbation I tell you. Masterbation. :)

[SevenStar]

rules bud. that's why there are so many venues around. there is something suited to everyone...except break dancers... :D

[Ray Pina]

Guess that's why God created MMA. I'll be lookin to enter something by the fall most likely; probably down by you in Virginia. I think that's the closest venue.

[red5angel]

rules bud. that's why there are so many venues around. there is something suited to everyone...except break dancers... :D


batizados beyotch..... ;)


So let me get this straight, some venues are ok with kicking to the head because kicks are harder to get off?

[Becca]

I know their reasoning is that it's not see easy to kick the head, but it gets a lot easier when you can't trap that kick, kick the supporting leg or charge in and beat their face .... why can they treat your head like a soccer ball but you can't treat their's like avolley ball?

Why do some grapplers think its OK to roll with you and possibly break your elbow or shoulder with a lock but you can't break their nose with a punch?

Masterbation I tell you. Masterbation. :)
Na. they could trap the kick. They just couldn't hold on to it while pumling the opponant. They could not kick the supporting leg, but they could sweep it.

Kinda give you nitemares, yes? Having your leg up on some guy's sholder, trapped then having the other swept out from under you. I doubt the 1' thick foam pad helped any when they hit the ground. :eek:

[SevenStar]

batizados beyotch..... ;)



hehe. speaking of which, the guys here with nacao are headed to miami next week for an upcoming batizado.