Limb destructions in hunggar?

[Gowgee]

OK I know "three star" excercises are good for building up your bridges in hung-gar, and that strong bridges can be a painful deadener of arms. There are also the limb destructions for attacking the nerves on the inside and outside of arms with more precision though, such as with the fist. Do any of the core forms of Hung Gar like Taming the Tiger or Tiger/Crane illustrate any of these kinds of limb (esp. arm) destructions?

[David Jamieson]

"limb destructions" is a filipino martial arts term.

There are many attacks in cma that attack the joints or nerve centres.
you cannot learn these by doing form alone.

[Gowgee]

Thanks for that background on the term - good to know!

I'm more specifically interested in nerve strikes like the ones that deaden the arms like the inside of the forearms, the top of the forearms and inside of the biceps.

While I'm sure many instructors teach more than is in the forms, I'm coming from a minimalist perspective in thinking that the core of the art should be expressed in the forms (and their applications). Not all arts teach everything, and that's cool too, butI'd like to know if there are any such nerve strikes to the arms in Taming the Tiger, Tiger/Crane, Five Elements, etc.

Cheers

[David Jamieson]

like eviscerating a chicken without a knife. :p

just let that sink in for a second.


ok, grab yourself a superficial anatomy book. Then grabs yerself something that shows the autonomic nervous system.

Underneath the skin we are all essentially the same barring circus freak parents, or mutation.

IE: we all have nerve bundles in the same areas, we all have a funny bone (so to speak) in the same area. If you can pinch a nerve you can cause great pain. If you can cause great pain you can gain control or knock out your opponent. The principles of application lay in the locations of majour nerve bundles or ending. The principles in how joints move is found in how they are not supposed to move. Want to compromise someones structure, move one of their joints in a direction it is not supposed to go. (a lot of china na is revolving around this).

You also need to develop strength to do these things and get a reasonable idea of what kind of force it takes to apply. Keeping in mind that humans are amazingly resilient. Barring a glass jaw or a sweet spot strike, most people are NOT going down in one hit even thos folks with 0 training. It just doesn't work like that in the hard light of reality.

anyway, first look at majour joints that you can manipulate:

1.ankles
2.knees
3.the waist/hips
4.the wrists
5.the elbows
6.the shoulders
7.the neck

each of these seven can be controlled by locking, blocking or bending the opposite direction from which they are intended to be bent.

each of these can be comprimised by striking at the right angle.

each majour joint in general has a nerve bundle close to it or within it.

you can usually find out on your own self (be careful dang it!) which way these joints move properly and how they are NOT designed to move. Using almost no force you can determine quickly how to attack a joint at the limb using a grab or lock or twist. You can then think of that in terms of striking that limb.

for distal points on a limb, that's where you want to have a little more knowledge about where nerves are located and how musculature is formed. This takes more study than gross joint manipulation and also requires careful approach.

pick up some info on Chin Na techs, or judo, or sambo or greco roman wrestling or any number of other martial arts that focus on grabs holds and locks.

All this can be extrapolated from and applied to striking techniques, first to joints, then at a deeper level to the distal points.

I can't stress enough how careful you should be when working with this stuff and how compliance training is very important especially when you are looking to develop speed in application.

Clinch work is important because it is an open door in teh range you want to be when applying this stuff. Long range stuff is not nearly as effective in this type of attack and defend material as short inside work.

Finally, practice and practice realistically against a fully resisting opponent when ready so that you can understand just how easy it isn't.

[Jook Lum]

Hello David Jamieson,


Good post!


Hello Gowgee,

Most core forms if unaltered or watered down of most styles have techniques or
sequences for point strikes and pain manipulation.

[illusionfist]

In all actuality, Hung Kuen makes use of many limb destruction techniques due to its emphasis on manipulating the Chut Sing (7 Stars). Most techniques in Hung Kuen usually aim to control/take out 2-3 stars in one shot. This makes limb destructions a common mode of attack.

A common one that is used is "monkey steals the peach", which is found in both Gung Ji and Fu Hok. It can be used to break the elbow, or you can use it to attack the ulnar nerve/artery, brachial artery. You can also shoot in with a similar elbow move (only you'll be aiming with the point of your elbow), and you'll go for your opponent's shoulder, digging your elbow into the axillary artery.

You can do the same thing with "wave tosses ball", which is a long fist method found in both Gung Ji, Fu Hok, and Sup Ying. Depending which arm you'd like to take out, you can use your bridge or fist to smash into the underside of your opponent's forearm and get to the ulnar and median nerves. If you so desire, you can use both arms to catch your opponent's arm and scissor his arm at the elbow joint, thusly wrenching it and hopefully disabling it.

"Tiger descends mountain" is another favorite of mine, which makes use of locking the opponent's elbow joint while toppling their body. Depending on the angle, you can leak in and phoenix eye them to the temple for a nasty follow-up. I particularly like using tiger descends mountain as a follow-up to the aforementioned monkey steals the peach. After the elbow, I just unfold my arm and descend into the side of the neck, smashing the carotid artery (and the famous ST-9 point) with my bridge.

In reality, there are way too many to list. Just remember that Hung Kuen is all about bridging. If you don't have a bridge, you build one. Once you have it, destroy it. Just play around with the moves, you'll find them. If you are working off somebody who likes to throw fast lead punches, wait for that second punch to come over so you can tie them up. It's usually good to go on the outside of the bridge so you can monitor away from the opponent's rear hand. That way, when they decide to use it, they have to overshoot across their centerline and you can tie them up easier and hopefully pull off the limb destruction. If the person is an orthodox stance fighter, they'll have their strong hand in the back, which is even better for you because you'll hopefully be taking out their strongest weapon.

Peace :D

[Gowgee]

That is some great advice!

DJ, that's some great advice on the partner training. And godamit you made me reach for my dictionary with that "evisceration" comment of yours. LOL. Thanks

IllusionFist, I never thought of the upswinging longfist strikes etc in Taming the Tiger or Tiger/Crane as being possible nerve attacks. Thanks very much!

[Lachesis]

great post ilusion fist!!!!!1


hi Gowgee

i practice shun wu tang based on lohan quan and southern shaolin. we have also have some "limb destruction tecniques" but is not a suttle and gracefull as pangamut/dumog (philipino) i think a lot of styles do have their own tecniques and its up to every single student to analyse the opponent to see what you are going to perform.

something that also garbbes my attention is DIM MAK (currently also studying)
very powerfull stuf end extremely dangerous . maybe you should have a look at that
cheers

[Vasquez]

Yes you're right high level hung gar teaches you well in nerve strikes (dim mak). Solid palm strikes to hit general areas or pheonix eye fist or leapord paws if you want to go for specific targets. Hung gar is a great style.