What to look for in Hung Gar school?

[Bon Sau]

I just moved from California to Arizona a few months ago. I've been wanting to study kung fu for a very long time but the town I'm from only had Aikido and Karate. So I studied Karate for a year and a half but never really liked it. Anyways, I found a Hung Ga school but it's about 2 hours away from my new city. That's not exactly close but I'm willing to drive there a couple times a week to train. Since I've never studied Kung Fu, can someone tell me what things I should look for or ask when I make a visit to the school?

Is it considered rude for a prospective student to ask about the training i.e. do they teach practical application of the techniques/forms taught? And does it make a difference if the Sifu was taught by a well known instructor or is that basically just a selling point and should not enter into consideration?

Here's the school I'm interested in training at, in case some of you with more knowledge can tell me if it's worth checking into or not.

http://www.afn.org/~afn59160/

[David Jamieson]

a lot of your questions can be answered through this site:

http://hungkuen.net/home.htm

take a look around on the net to see what Hung Gar looks like in all it's shapes and flavours. There isn't a shortage of info on this style.

the link you gave appears to be a legit Hung Gar school at a glance.

[BenjaminAZ]

Bon Sau,

Where in AZ are you now located? I clicked on your link, and it seems that school is run by a student of Augustine Fong. I don't know about their Hung Gar, but from what I understand (which is little, and mostly through the grapevine) Sifu Fong is primarily a Wing Chun kind of guy. Ah, on further reading it seems he got his Hung from some other teachers anyway.

He (Fong) is well known though, if that matters to you. I don't know much about his other teachers.

If you are in the Phoenix area, I do know of another school that teaches Hung Gar locally (I can't comment at all on lineage or quality- but if you are local, then it might be worth checking out at least). If so, PM me and I'll get back to you.

Good luck,
Benjamin

PS- I would add... I looked at the curriculum for the school, and it seems that Hung Gar is labelled under Sil Lum (basically umbrella Southern Shaolin)... I've done a small amount of Hung Gar myself, and it was always my understanding that the commonly considered three primary sets were Gong Ji Fuk Fu Kuen (which they teach), Fu Hok/Tiger Crane (which they teach), and the Iron Wire set (which I don't see on their list). They do have a lot of other minor/basic/secondary/whatever sets though (Arrow Hand form, Lau Family form, etc). So it seems like it might be more of a "Southern Shaolin with Hung Gar emphasis" curriculum rather than pure Hung Gar. Just a mention, in case that was something that mattered to you.

[David Jamieson]

Bon Sau,

Where in AZ are you now located? I clicked on your link, and it seems that school is run by a student of Augustine Fong. I don't know about their Hung Gar, but from what I understand (which is little, and mostly through the grapevine) Sifu Fong is primarily a Wing Chun kind of guy. Ah, on further reading it seems he got his Hung from some other teachers anyway.

He (Fong) is well known though, if that matters to you. I don't know much about his other teachers.

If you are in the Phoenix area, I do know of another school that teaches Hung Gar locally (I can't comment at all on lineage or quality- but if you are local, then it might be worth checking out at least). If so, PM me and I'll get back to you.

Good luck,
Benjamin

PS- I would add... I looked at the curriculum for the school, and it seems that Hung Gar is labelled under Sil Lum (basically umbrella Southern Shaolin)... I've done a small amount of Hung Gar myself, and it was always my understanding that the commonly considered three primary sets were Gong Ji Fuk Fu Kuen (which they teach), Fu Hok/Tiger Crane (which they teach), and the Iron Wire set (which I don't see on their list). They do have a lot of other minor/basic/secondary/whatever sets though (Arrow Hand form, Lau Family form, etc). So it seems like it might be more of a "Southern Shaolin with Hung Gar emphasis" curriculum rather than pure Hung Gar. Just a mention, in case that was something that mattered to you.


Having looked at the site myself the wc is from Augustine Fong /William Cheung/Yip Man lineage and the Hung Gar is from Chiu Chi Ling/Chiu Kao/Lam Sai Wing Lineage. Both lineages are legit to the best of my understanding ergo I would think the curriculum is fine for either.

Best bet is to try it out, see if you're comfortable with the people and the material and continue from there.

[Bon Sau]

Thanks for the info guys! I'm going to contact the Sifu to ask when I might be able to go and watch a class so I can see what impression I get.

BenjaminAZ, I'm just outside of Phoenix but really don't mind driving a ways to get good instruction. If you can post here or PM me the name of the other Hung Gar school you mentioned, I'd like to check them out as well.

Like I said, I'm really very new to Kung Fu so not sure what to look for. And I know the lineage probably doesn't make a big difference at this early stage of my training, but one of the things that caught my eye (or at least furthered my interest) about the school I posted, was that the Sifu trained with Chiu Chi Ling, whose name I've read about on several Hung Ga sites. But again I know that shouldn't really influence me, because even though the Sifu may have trained with a famous master, it doesn't mean he will be a great teacher himself.

And as you mentioned that school doesn't teach all of the standard Hung Ga sets so that's another thing to consider.

It's just a little overwhelming to someone new at this, coming from a town with literally 2 martial arts schools to a place with so many choices and styles. But I'll definitely visit in person and see what my instinct tells me, and if you can also tell me the address or website of the school in Phoenix I'd appreciated it.

Thanks again!

[ngokfei]

Just do it. Funny putting it that way.

You don't have a background in KF so anything would be a good start.

Hung Gar is mainly broken down into Wong Fei Hung and Village styles

The WFH branches share 3 sets: Subduing Tiger, Tiger Crane and Iron Wire. Other sets are the 5 shape (animals), 10 Shape (5 animals 5 elements). But still there are even more minor sets not including the weapons.


Perhaps 1st identifiying what it is you want to get out of your training. Most schools have a healthy balance of: Forms, Self Defense, Qi Gong. The more combat concious schools are much more demanding and not for those who want to train casually.


on a side note I know of an individual of the Tang Fung Lineage who teaches privately near Tempe.. PM for contact info .

[BenjaminAZ]

Thanks to you guys for filling in the details.

Bon Sau, I'll pm you the info I have, but definately look into the person that ngokfei mentioned (who is probably more legit that the teacher I know of, whom I only know about second- and third-hand).

Whatever you find, I do hope that it works out well for you. Definately post on the board once you have started training and fill us in.

Good luck,
BenjaminAZ

[mok]

Lineage and curriculum both are legit.

Chiu Chi Ling is well-known and respected in the Hung Gar community, as well as being Si-Gong (one of them anyways) to our local admin Gene Ching, Onassis Parungao from kwoon.tv, and a slew of other highly regarded Hung Kuen teachers out in europe, HK, and everywhere.

The other (non-pillar) sets like Arrow-hand are basic introductory sets that while not officially part of Hung Kuen have pretty much always been taught in Lam family Hung Ga (Wing Lam learned from both The Chiu's and the Lam's). Their includion doesn't make it "augmented Hung Ga", pretty much every other Hung Gar teacher changes the non-pillar sets and includes a couple different ones to taste. Lau Ga kuen (Lau familiy fist set) is an exception as pretty much all lineages of Hung Ga teach it, even though it's not considered a "pillar form".

Considering Hung Kuen from Chiu lineages, and Wing Chun from Augustine Fong I'd say this is a very good choice. You'd be hard pressed to find a better training opportunity, anywhere...

[Ravenshaw]

Chiu Chi Ling is well-known and respected in the Hung Gar community, as well as being Si-Gong (one of them anyways) to our local admin Gene Ching, Onassis Parungao from kwoon.tv ...

Actually, Chiu Chi Ling is the brother of their Sifu's Hung Gar teacher, Chiu Wai.

It's a minor point, since both Chiu brothers learned from their father, Chiu Kau.

[4 Dragons]

Hi,

I know you said Hung Gar but instead of driving two hours one way maybe you would like to check out an authentic White Crane school in Phoenix. Here's the link...

http://www.whitecrane.ws/sifu.html

Good luck,
4 Dragons

[Vajramusti]

Bon Sao-

Rob Lopez 's Hungar lineage is directly to Chiu Chi Ling who is one of the greats in Hung Gar. You cant go wrong- if Hung Gar is what you are interested in.
Rob allso learned Wing Chun from Augustine Fong -so his credenrtials in both arts
are genuine. He has a brother who is good in hapkido. Rob has practical experience as well. Rob is a kung fu bro. of mine and he is good. He is a lion dancer too.

Tucson is a ways from where you apparently are. If you travel to Tucson and are interested in wing chun- Augustine Fong the wing chun great is in Tucson- east side-
you cant go wrong there.

Zhu of white crane- to the best of my knowledge moved from Phoenix to San Francisco- a year or so ago.

If you want some more input-you can pm me if you wish. I dont do hung gar- only wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

www.tempewingchun.com

[Southern Fist]

Vajramusti:

It is true Zhu Sifu relocated, But his students teach In Tempe the White Crane Style.

Bon Sau:

I have sent you a PM so you can contact me or I can contact you.

Peter Pena

[hasayfu]

From looking at Zhu's website, his kung fu looks hard core but it doesn't look like mainstream (WFH/Ling Nam/Canton) Hung Gar. Not sure if that is important or not.

I don't know sifu Lopez but I have interacted with Vajramusti in the past so I would go with his word. I just looked at his site and if you go to the forms page:http://www.afn.org/~afn59160/sillumhistorycont3.htm he covers all the "pillar" forms.

That said, Joy, are you teaching? If you just want solid Chinese Martial Arts why not learn from Vajramusti in tempe. Seems much closer to Phoenix.

[Vajramusti]

That said, Joy, are you teaching? If you just want solid Chinese Martial Arts why not learn from Vajramusti in tempe. Seems much closer to Phoenix.(hasayfu).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I sure am-till curtain call and possibly after that!! In wing chun its always spring.

My part of Tempe is smack adjacent to Phoenix and easily accessible from

major roads. Thanks hasayfu.

[Southern Fist]

Ha Say Fu:
I am the one who teaches the Hung Ga in Az. In his students school. Zhu Sifu is White Crane and Nam Kuen he learned Hung Chap Kuen in Toisan. But, he teaches the Bak Hok, Nam Kuen/Cheung Kuen, Tai Ji Quan,Qi Gong.

[hasayfu]

Southern Fist,

Let me wipe the egg off my face. Like I said, the first I heard of Zhu was the website. His pictures show an old school hard core kung fu guy. Much props for that. Hope my comments didn't offend.

Bon Sau appeared to be looking for a mainstream Hung Gar school since he wants to travel 2 hours to get to one. That's the only reason I made my comment that Zhu's site didn't show much from the mainstream system.

Not that I think mainstream is the only way to go. In fact, my forum name highlights the fact that I am a mutt and practice non mainstream version of Hung Gar called Ha Say Fu.

Care to give a little more info about the Hung Gar at Zhu's school? How would you characterize it? What sets does it have? Any lineage or historical info? If you ever check the archives, you'll find that I am a hung gar nut and love to hear information and stories about all hung gar lineages.

Hung Kuen Yut Ga!

[Southern Fist]

Ha Say Fu:

I studied with Sifu Yee Chi Wai (Frank Yee) from the Tang Fung branch in NYC. Presently I am still training with Sifu Y.C. Wong in San Francisco from the Lam Family.

Zhu Sifu mentioned to me once who he learned in Toisan from, But regretfully I have forgotten.

[hasayfu]

Southern Fist,

I must be dense. Are you saying that the Hung Gar taught in that school comes from you? If so, Bon Sau should visit you as those are two very mainstream lineages.

Did you ever see Zhu's hung gar? Can you describe it? Did you ever see Yee Sifu's village hung gar or Tam Jan's? Any comparision.

Just curious.

[Southern Fist]

HSF:
Yes I did. When I first visited his school in 1997. I introduced myself and informed him who I learned from my Hung Ga and other styles. He met Sifu Yee in Toisan back in the 80's and early 90's. So they knew each other. He (Zhu Sifu) was actually close friends to the late Chan Tai San in Toisan. He also knew very well Tam Jan and showed me his version of Hung Ga Chap.

I met Tam Jan Sifu in Yee Sifu's school back in the early 90's. Sifu Yee with any of his Kung Fu friends would have his( Yee Sifu) students study with them. A training Brother and Myself were taught a two man set from Tam Jan Empty hand vs. double Daggers. With the Late Chan Tai San Sifu I was instructed how to place the Gim on the throat for the Hard Qi Gong exhibition he (Chan Sifu)was known to do in the tournaments in the 90's.

Yee Sifu would mention/show to the other seniors in the Mo Gwoon in those days the difference of our version and Village Hung.

As for the comparison the Village Hung has the two finger kui sau vs. the single finger kui Sau.
The circular chin na grab seen prior to executing the opposite punch.

the half side kick/front kick icks which the Hung Chap schools tend to have.

These are but a few of the comparison techniques.

There is also a Si-Hing of mine from the Yee's Hung Ga here in Arizona as well.
He is Raymond Rangel. We still practice and perform /exhibit in lion dance shows here in the local area.

There you have it Hasayfu Hing-dai in a nutshell.

Respectfully,
Peter Pena

[Vasquez]

Hung gar is a good traditional style definately worth checking out.

[hasayfu]

Thanks Sifu Peter,

That's great info. You have a great background.

[A.C.]

Mr. Peter Pena,

Do you teach steel thread at your school?

A.C.

[Southern Fist]

Yes, I do.

Any Other Question.