Blackbelts have lost all meaning

[SimonM]

I know this guy.
He is a very nice guy and he is in good shape.
He also just got his black belt after less than a year of JKD instruction.

I didn't even know JKD had belts until he told me that.

I'm sorry but you SHOULD NEVER get a black belt after only one year, it's a disservice to the person attaining the belt.

Really it seems like belts have lost all meaning.

[red5angel]

you've just finally caught on to this?

[rogue]

Really it seems like belts have lost all meaning.
If only that were really true, they still mean something to most people. There may be no basis for that meaning but it's still there.

[PangQuan]

To non martial artists, belts mean everything. To real martial artists, belts mean relatively little.

When you realize each school has its own rank advancement system, then you in turn realize that belts hold no more than your pants and a place in your school where you can be easily recognized as to how far you are in your system (ie; big brother, little brother)

I know schools that you can get your black belt in just a few years, the school I study at 6-10 years. Depending on what you are at the school for. If you are there with the ideal you would like to teach one day, it will take MUCH longer to get your black, as Sifu then expects perfection from you before you may advance.

[rogue]

To real martial artists, belts mean relatively little.
You would think but it's not so. Would you attend a seminar or take lessons from someone who is the equivelent of a brown belt or below? Very few martial arts look at skills first and belt second.

[SevenStar]

To non martial artists, belts mean everything. To real martial artists, belts mean relatively little.



not entirely true. Case in point, BJJ. If you have a black belt in it, you have earned it, without a doubt, and you are d@mn good.

[David Jamieson]

Really it seems like belts have lost all meaning.

not really, a black one with a brush silver frog buckle holds up a pair of tan chinos in a snazzy way. lol

I wouldn't say they are meaningless to martial artists either. There are literally hordes of practitioners who take great pride in their belt levels and titles and teh hard work it took to get them.

Also, bear in mind that each school, it's belts and reasons for them are varied. I've even heard of some schools that start at black belt and have greater importance on Gold or Red belts at the highest levels of achievement in their respective arts.

In that context, they shouldn't be of great importance to someone outside that system.

so anyway, did you cross hands with the jkd guy and did he kick yer ass? Or vice versa?

[ZIM]

JKD goes up to the coveted Ultraviolet belt, which is just above Megayellow. Black is just like a blue belt in any other art. ;)

[Ray Pina]

It all depends on who's issuing the belt.

A BJJ black belt means something. In fact, a BJJ blue belt means more to me than most TKD, generic karate, etc. black belts. This system has found a way to categorize certain levels of skill and succesfully donate a belt color to it.

My teacher has recently brought a belt system he used for kids into the adult class along with uniforms. I have mixed feelings about this.

[David Jamieson]

It all depends on who's issuing the belt.

A BJJ black belt means something. In fact, a BJJ blue belt means more to me than most TKD, generic karate, etc. black belts. This system has found a way to categorize certain levels of skill and succesfully donate a belt color to it.

My teacher has recently brought a belt system he used for kids into the adult class along with uniforms. I have mixed feelings about this.

Ray has done a Q.E.D here on my point above. :p

[neit]

heh i think belts matter to non-martial arts people because it's something they can ask about to show interest. its an easy question to ask you because it does'nt require much prior knowledge.

[DragonzRage]

Simply depends on where and how you earned it. Yes the majority of generic karate/TKD black belts won't give you much more than serious overconfidence in your fighting ability. A black belt in JKD probably means even less, since there's not a reputable JKD lineage I can think of that uses belt classifications. Then again, there are certain organizations and styles that generally hold up a pretty legit standard in their ranking system. If I meet a guy who has a credibly earned Bjj black belt, I can pretty much assume that he'll manhandle me on the ground. or if i came across a legit BB with competitive experience from one of the hardcore fighting karate lineages (kyokushinkai, etc) i would for **** sure respect his striking ability.

[PangQuan]

I say, to martial artists that belts mean relatively little.

This not being, "means nothing". This being that we use the belt to make a base assumption to start with. Then we use our experience to decide whether they actually are a black belt or not.

we have all met black belts who are not even close. and then we have met lower ranks who are **** good, but have very strict teacher.

I know a ten year old that is a higher rank in the sytem I am practicing, but I also watch him practice and know he is not as experienced as I, nor is he a higher level. He has just been in the style longer, and has attended more ranking ceremony. Its all relative.

[red5angel]

belts mean little to nothing to me. True a few schools out there actually hold their higher belts to higher standards, but they've become such a marketing tool that when someone says to me "I'm a black belt" I have a hard time not rolling my eyes and sighing heavily.
Sure they can mean something to an individual that has been working hard but I think it often times takes the focus off the lifetime of martial arts dedication and moves it to, if I can only get my blackbelt.

[PangQuan]

at times you phrase better what I mean than I.

black belts are a dime a dozen these days. especially when you see people claiming 18th dan!?!?!?! rediculous. not traditional at all.

now if one were to say "i finally achieved my black belt ranking after 10 years of devote study under my teacher and style."

That holds more merrit.

[red5angel]

For me their trappings. If you need a belt, then great, but don't expect me to automatically assume you're the walking talking death machine I am, just because your belt says so.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

I know this guy.
He is a very nice guy and he is in good shape.
He also just got his black belt after less than a year of JKD instruction.

I didn't even know JKD had belts until he told me that.

I'm sorry but you SHOULD NEVER get a black belt after only one year, it's a disservice to the person attaining the belt.

Really it seems like belts have lost all meaning.

welcome to 1984 dude.

[red5angel]

It's all depending on the requirement for that belt testing.

Of course it does, the problem is that most schools just don't push their students that hard. Hell I went to a pretty traditional Shorin Ryu school in high school. We had two black belts and it took them 5 years to do it. Both of them said once they hit blackbelt they finally started learning how to really fight. Up until then they did tournemants, passed all the required tests, did all that. However, the school got shut down, they couldn't get enough people through the door because there were about 8 places in 10 miles that would get you a blackbelt in 1-3 years.

[rogue]

It's a large part marketing. A goodly number of people quit when they get their black belt, I think MP said the same happens in BJJ around blue.



If you need a belt, then great, but don't expect me to automatically assume you're the walking talking death machine I am, just because your belt says so. Thanks for the idea Red, I'll make a fortune when I sell it to Century.

[Dim Wit Mak]

I have been studying martial arts for over 22 years and have earned black belts in kung fu, jujitsu, and kenpo. I am proud of these accomplishments, but I couldn't care less if I ever get another one. I now study martial arts for the pure joy of learning them without having to acquire more rank. In the street no one is going to ask what rank or belt you hold. You are going to be judged on your effectiveness.

[TaoBoy]

To paraphrase Royce Gracie - "A belt only covers 2 inches of your ass, you've got to cover the rest."

Enough said.

[rogue]

. In the street no one is going to ask what rank or belt you hold. You are going to be judged on your effectiveness.
But if you had a belt that said, "I'm the walking talking death machine mother f*&%er!" Now that would start a conversation.

[ZIM]

But if you had a belt that said, "I'm the walking talking death machine mother f*&%er!" Now that would start a conversation.Dude, you just gave away your idea! Did they turn you down so soon?

/by the way- I want to thank the starter of this thread for making my life goals pointless! Oh, the shame of it! :D

[red5angel]

Thanks for the idea Red, I'll make a fortune when I sell it to Century.

Sorry buddy but "The Walking Death Machine Red5angel" is already trademarked and copyrighted. I expect to be getting tons of gigs shortly after killing you in our deathmatch. Mostly in WWE and UFC.