Perspective on Mantis Gathering

[Wang Rui Xuan]

I am certain the ‘mantis gathering’ was a great experience for all who attended. It gave people a chance to make new friends and exchange information on Praying Mantis kungfu.

However in perspective of the larger US Mantis community, there remains a large majority of high level Mantis masters who did not attend the event. Some examples include:

Master Chan Pui
Master Liang Kam Yuen
Master Paul Eng
Master James Shyun
Master Tony Chuy
Master Carl Albright
Master Raymond Fogg
Master Yamel Torres
Master Anthony Clark
Master Cheung Wah

Regardless of their reasons for not attending, the result undoubtedly leaves a large gap in the overall quality of attendance.

In my opinion the future viability of the ‘mantis gathering’ as a recognized platform for Standards and Excellence hinders on its ability to attract top level masters.


Wang Rui Xuan

[Lu Bu]

Were you there? I take it that you weren't, because had you been there you would have noticed plenty of quality. You shouldn't critique something you weren't around to experience firsthand. I have no doubt that it will be around in years to come.

[BeiTangLang]

The Olympics started with a single event too. Whats you point?
:D

[SaMantis]

Wow, this Wang Rui Xuan character isn't bitter or anything huh? :D

Gawd.

The important thing about the event isn't the appearance of high-level masters. The important thing is that mantis practitioners of several styles, at many different levels of training, met IN PERSON to share information, discuss differences, and move forward toward some kind of understanding. These are things that really can't be accomplished 100% on a message board. I didn't attend the event either, but at least I understand that much, and I applaud the efforts of those who organized it and attended.

[Oso]

**** that's a juicy looking worm but I'm not biting.

I'll just say this: The attitude that seems to be displayed in your post is exactly the attitude that we are trying to eliminate. Thanks for staying home.

[Lu Bu]

:rolleyes: You Shanghai mantis guys all seem to have a chip on your shoulders, don't you?

Appendix B, For People Who Don't Understand, Or Know But Don't Care, Why Their Condescending Tone Might Be Found Offensive-

the result undoubtedly leaves a large gap in the overall quality of attendance

This sentence fragment, essentially, states that the quality of people in attendance was lacking something, or to be more direct, quite a bit; that's what "a large gap in the overall quality of attendance" means. That statement is a very bold one, especially coming from someone who was not in attendance , and really is in absolutely no position to judge .

In my opinion the future viability of the ‘mantis gathering’ as a recognized platform for Standards and Excellence hinders on its ability to attract top level masters.

Here, "hinders on its ability to attract top level masters" is the real focus. Basically, this statement alludes to your opinion that the people in attendance were lacking and any future gatherings need many more "top level masters", as you said to even be viable (which means, in this instance, "capable of success or continuing effectiveness") . You are, like everyone else, entitled to your own opinion. However, this gathering is not meant to be the "Rock Concert of Praying Mantis Kung Fu". It was meant to be an event, the first of its kind, where a number of different praying mantis practitioners from different schools and organizations met together and exchanged information. Had you been there, you would have noticed the high quality instruction by the numerous top level practitioners (sorry, I am not so arrogant as to define who is and who isn't a master of anything) who were in attendance. It was not meant to be a measure of quantity. It was, however, quite a demonstration of the quality of the numerous presenters as well as participants.

Next time, be there, and enable yourself to speak about something you have firsthand experience with. :eek:

Sincerely,

Charles Huffman

[shirkers1]

You guys knew I would be chiming in on this one didn't you!?!?!? ;)

Well I think that the statements made by the responses pretty much covered it. Taking into concideration that not everyone can fly across the world to attend events such as this, I wasn't surprised that more people didn't attend. Also I know that some of those people are retired from teaching mantis and to make a trip to ohio especially the first ever gathering that really no one knew how it would turn out was asking a lot. I think those that attended (myself included) had a great time and saw some things they may never see again, unless they attend another event like this. The willingness to have this event held in other states, countries, etc will surely give more an oportunity to attend. This makes each event (if it happens again) special in it's own right, and should make everyone who attended past events want to attend again at the chance to pick up new things and have a chance to play with new people.

I wasn't surprised when the shanghai group didn't attend... Not because I think they aren't worthy, just that it's a lot to ask people to come across the pond like that. I was very surprised to see Neal Armstrong show up, I'm glad he did he was one of the guys I'll remember because he's a character. :D Plus you throw in the fact that "well known" masters have a way of not sharring themselves to other races, without fees, or some catch. Not to say that the list that was given has any one like that on there but it's a fact that it happens.

I have no doubt that future gatherings (if they happen) will only get better and better.

So maybe we can get our mantis brothers in shanghai to host an all mantis gathering in the future. I know myself as well as a few others will be there for sure. :D

mark

[Metal Mantis]

Entering any event in life with assumtion, wether it be positive or negative, and you are more likely to receive just that.... why not just go only to present yourself for what you are and be open to receive what it is that others have to give, which hopefully is themselves... don't you do this stuff because you love it? what is wrong with communication, which in the the case of MA is much more physical, and sharing what we love to do.... In a world already full of so much confusion and warfare why draw lines that need not be... i unfortunately could not attend the meeting, however am quite assured that genuine expression was taking place and I know the material was "quality". Any how.... Peace......

[shirkers1]

Well lets not turn this into a "shanghai group" bashing expo because then our leader will shut it down...

So maybe the folks in shanghai don't really care about showing what they have to offer at an open event such as the one held in ohio, maybe they were just a little intimidated about flying over to the USA and not knowing how they would be received? Not knowing if they would be attacked with bats or welcomed with open arms. I know I was a little worried about heading over there to train without even seeing any one of their guys move. Not knowing if I would end up in the basement of the "shanghai group" with a ball gag in my mouth strapped to a pole.... So that is fine that they didn't come.... But on the other hand don't try to pick apart an event that made a difference and hopefully will continue to grow. Finally some people got together and started to make a positive difference in how mantis guys train and practice. That's more than I can say for some people at this time... maybe things will change.

mark

[Shadowboxer]

You guys are way too nice.

Once again, certain members of the "Shanghai group" miss the bigger picture. That's what I thought at first but then I realized from their posts you can tell "they" are more intelligent than to repeatedly miss the big picture.

The point of the gathering was to meet new people, share information, train together, and strenghten the Mantis community by doing so. This is clearly not their agenda. They would rather stay isolated and try to keep the mantis community fragmented by always attacking and nitpicking other members.

WRX has no evidence to back up his claims. Of the Sifus listed, I wonder how many hands he has touched? And finally, unless he has touched hands with all of the presenters that were there, his statements are completely without merit --what a surprise. WRX probably won't respond.

:rolleyes:

[Wang Rui Xuan]

Glad it got everyones attention.

Some people bit. Some people didn't. Some people absolutely lost it.

Wang Rui Xuan

[Lu Bu]

Well, at least I know now that Wang Rui Xuan is chinese for "Troll". And from now on, I shall ignore you accordingly. Have lots of fun with your "teacher". :rolleyes:

[Wang Rui Xuan]

Like I said I said before I am certain the event was an excellent experience for everyone.

However the fact still remains a large majority of the top level Masters did not show. I do not know why. Anyone could speculate.

Only one or two individuals actually addressed the core issue of my original post, and made a legitimate counter argument stating that things take time to build up. Others got easily sidetracked and ranted on a number of tangents.

Undoubtedly more support from high level masters would make the event stronger. Anyone object?

Wang Rui Xuan

[Mi Hou Tao]

"recognized platform for Standards and Excellence "

I think that one of the points WRX was trying to make
is that in order for decisions and discussions made at such
meetings to have a wide ranging,widely accepted and long lasting effect as future standards is that there needs to be comprehensive attendance of a large number of top level masters. otherwise people would not recognise them or adhere to them.
obviously this is easier said than done,
and as someone already said it takes time for these things to build up.

and thats not to say you cant still have fun, or learn something without all of this.
I guess it depends on what the objectives are,
and it aint up to me.

Just because a shark has sharp teeth doesnt mean it will bite you ;)

[mantid1]

I am sure that there are many reasons that the masters that WRX mentioned did not attend.

One is politics. We all know that there is alot of criticism among the different mantis styles.....They only do forms.......they have no lineage......I have the "true" lineage.......they are not pure mantis.......

We could imagine that if you have promoted the CMA for a long time and have come across that kind of criticism, you may be a little apprehensive about attending such a function.

Another reason is timing and money.

I think the main reason is that the people listed have their own cliques and do not see the need to join another.

Do you think that in 20 years from now that the people from this current gathereing will be willing to attend a gathering put together by a younger generation?

I doubt it.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for these types of gatherings and from what I hear it was a great experience for all who attended.

I just think that these are the reasons that the listed people did not attend.

We also have to remember that there are many more good mantis practitioners out there than what was listed.

[Frogman]

I wasn’t there but it does sound like a good time. A bunch of people getting together with a common interest and working out. From what I saw it was put together here on the forum, which in it’s self is an accomplishment, so who cares who wasn’t there. If you weren’t there get over it :rolleyes: and start making plans cause it sounds it going to happen again…

Just my thoughts, which I’m sure are of little interest to anyone on the list.


RibHit
fm

[BeiTangLang]

Undoubtedly more support from high level masters would make the event stronger. Anyone object?

Wang Rui Xuan

More support _PERIOD_ would make an event stronger. Quite honestly, the quantity of "high level masters" would only have limited impact on the total conference for the majority of the participants.

As far as your segregated question goes, I cannot object.

[BeiTangLang]

I am sure that there are many reasons that the masters that WRX mentioned did not attend.

One is politics. We all know that there is alot of criticism among the different mantis styles.....They only do forms.......they have no lineage......I have the "true" lineage.......they are not pure mantis....... .

You can call it what you want to, but I call it riddiculous when these arguments come into play when I read these reasonings. If Master Hu has no problem sharing his mantis, why should Master "X" be concerned about : "too much of his system in public"/"cannot reveal the techniques"/"should not be shown outside the family"/"should not attend a general mantis conference"??? Not attending due to one or more of these reasons is nothing more than a cop-out.
Everyone was very compatable at the conference. Why?? We are all open about what we do, are comfortable with our respected systems, are not affraid to participate and have a genuine intrest in seeing all mantis families even if it is not our own.



We could imagine that if you have promoted the CMA for a long time and have come across that kind of criticism, you may be a little apprehensive about attending such a function. .

To the contrary, if I am comfortable with my mantis, there is no reason I should not want to attend.



Another reason is timing and money..

Now this is a biggie & the main reason (along with the short conference timeframe) IMHO that many did not attend. If the conference would have been in Germany, I could not justify traverling there for a single day conference either. The conference will grow, and so will the attendance.



I think the main reason is that the people listed have their own cliques and do not see the need to join another. .

Attending a conference is not joining a "clique" any more than attending a tournament is.



Do you think that in 20 years from now that the people from this current gathereing will be willing to attend a gathering put together by a younger generation?

I doubt it..

Most will not bcause they will either be dead or will have quit mantis by then. Who is hosting it will not even be a consideration.



Dont get me wrong, I am all for these types of gatherings and from what I hear it was a great experience for all who attended.

I just think that these are the reasons that the listed people did not attend.

We also have to remember that there are many more good mantis practitioners out there than what was listed.

Indeed, we all have our thoughts on the subject & while you shared yours, I thought I would share mine as well. There are some that were not listed, but then again the original poster was just trying to make his point....what ever that was.

Makes for an interesting discussion & observation of peoples mind-sets within the community though.

Best wishes to everyone,
~BTL

[SaMantis]

Um, I have a question... (hand up)

Did anyone actually invite these high-level masters?

I mean, if they never heard of it in the first place then they wouldn't have come.

[BeiTangLang]

Answer:

I have no idea. I did not ask the organizers of the event for the invitation list :)

[mantid1]

I dont think that not coming for any of the reasons can be considered a "cop-out".


They may be very comfortable with their mantis that is why they may have decided
that they did not need to attend.


Once again I dont think it is a cop-out if the timing is bad or you cant afford to make it.

"Most of the people will be dead or not doing mantis anymore" Thats a shame
on both counts.

You took the post wrong.

Like I said it sounded like a good time.

[BeiTangLang]

No man,..I think you may have read me wrong as well. I mean, not wanting to go is just not wanting to go. No one can be faulted for that. I put up some specifics for the "cop-out" scenario.

I didn't put up my thoughts as a "counter" to your thoughts, just my own opinion to some of the issues you addressed.

It was a good time. An informative time. Hopefully I will be seeing more of the faces associated with the names here during the next one! :)

Best wishes,
~BTL

[mantid1]

I hope I can meet some of the same people at the next one.

We are in agreement my friend. :)

Have a good day