What to look for?

[Kuanti]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if I could ask a question that has probably been asked a thousand times before, but here goes....

I have found who I think is a "reputable" teacher here by. I plan on popping along to a few classes to see if its something I might like to start up.
I have quiet few years MA experience in other styles, so I hope I should be able to spot the general basics of a good class. But what things would you guys want to see in a wing chun class and what things would make you walk away. Basically what can I expect to see in a good wing chun class?

How much form work, two man drills, conditioning etc, would you expect?

Many thanks for any help!!
K

[sihing]

Can't anyone make a decision nowadays by themselves without getting advice from others that may no nothing of what you ask to know? This isn't brain surgery.

My advice to you is to just go into the kwoon, observe what they are doing, talk to the Sifu and use your gut feeling to make a decision. It worked for me 17 years ago, and it was the best decision of my life and I had no internet back then...

James

[lawrenceofidaho]

what can I expect to see in a good wing chun class? .......How much form work, two man drills, conditioning etc, would you expect?

Depends entirely on what your training goals are.

If your goal is performance and fighting ability, visit Matt Thorton's "Straight Blast Gym" webpage and read about "aliveness" (trust me, -this will definitely be worth your time). Aliveness (as described by Matt) is an excellent barometer for gauging what kind of results you can expect from a given type of training environment.

Best of luck finding a school that suits your needs. :)

-Lawrence

p.s.-what got you interested in wing chun?

[n01]

this explains aliveness quite well 13 mb ;)


http://www.jkd-kbh.dk/sbg2.wmv

[Nick Forrer]

IMO

A large amount of conditioning, chain punching up and down the hall, press ups etc. Should raise a red flag.

That stuff is okay to walm up with but shouldnt take up more than 10% of the class.

Wing chun is both a feeling art and an intelligent art i.e. it requires discussion, analysis and reflection - it cant be learnt by rote going up and down robotically, and so the majority of the time should be spent with two man drills, chi sau and sparring.

Also stay clear of anything overly regimental or militaristic. This is not how its practiced in HK and this is not how it should be practiced here. Nevertheless there are some schools which go OTT on levels, grades, ranks, protocol, titles, etiquette etc. All that stuff is anathema to me but some poeple do go in for it. You have to make your own judgement on how much of that you can stomach.

There are almost bound to be a few wankers (I think every school must have them) but as long as the majority of people are okay then dont worry about it.

Perhaps the main thing is to go to a few schools and try and make a comparison. At least that way you have some sort of criteria on which to make your decision.

In a phrase I would say it should be both informal and informative.

There is one well known instructor in London who laughs at you and walks away if you ask him a question!

Another one keeps you on the first two forms for years! And never explains them properly in the first place!!

Make sure the teacher isnt like that!

[Gangsterfist]

IMO

A large amount of conditioning, chain punching up and down the hall, press ups etc. Should raise a red flag.

That stuff is okay to walm up with but shouldnt take up more than 10% of the class.

Wing chun is both a feeling art and an intelligent art i.e. it requires discussion, analysis and reflection - it cant be learnt by rote going up and down robotically, and so the majority of the time should be spent with two man drills, chi sau and sparring.

Also stay clear of anything overly regimental or militaristic. This is not how its practiced in HK and this is not how it should be practiced here. Nevertheless there are some schools which go OTT on levels, grades, ranks, protocol, titles, etiquette etc. All that stuff is anathema to me but some poeple do go in for it. You have to make your own judgement on how much of that you can stomach.

There are almost bound to be a few wankers (I think every school must have them) but as long as the majority of people are okay then dont worry about it.

Perhaps the main thing is to go to a few schools and try and make a comparison. At least that way you have some sort of criteria on which to make your decision.

In a phrase I would say it should be both informal and informative.

There is one well known instructor in London who laughs at you and walks away if you ask him a question!

Another one keeps you on the first two forms for years! And never explains them properly in the first place!!

Make sure the teacher isnt like that!


I simply disagree with this statement. I train wing chun and my classes offer very little physical conditioning regiments, besides normal wing chun stuff (dummy, chi sao, forms, 2 man sets etc).

In my six elbows class it starts at 530 pm and ends at 930pm. We do tendon stretching, which takes about 30 minutes to get most of the major parts of the body. We then do approx 90 min or sometimes 2 hours of physical work outs. We do push ups, press ups, hand stands, bear crawls, rocky balboas, bruce lees, stance training, tiger stepping, cardio, etc. Its hard work and the very first time I went I couldn't even complete the work out. After that we practice kung fu for the remainder of the time. The kung fu training consists of sparring, forms, two man drills, shadow boxing, etc.

Now what does this have to do with wing chun?

Simple, this hard work has improved my wing chun. I have only been cross training for six weeks now or so, but my wing chun has improved from this hard work. I get my muscle memory working a lot harder and a lot more when I added in the physical work outs.

You have to balance it out though, IMHO, which I do by taking days off from working out, work on flexibility and form, structure etc, when I am not physically working my body out.

Six Elbows is an inside fighting style that pretty much always stresses to fight your opponet at 45 degree angles. So far it has complimented my wing chun, and has improved my wing chun skills. Remember that kung fu means skill derived from hard work, which means you must work hard. Physical training obviouisly is not the only answer, but it shouldn't raise any red flags. Now, if thats all they do then yeah I would train somewhere else. I am lucky since my six elbows class is free, so I have nothing to lose and everything to gain from training with those guys.

Good luck in your training though.

[Nick Forrer]

G fist

Perhaps i should have ben clearer

All the things you describe can be done in your own time and require little if any instruction once the initial actions have been learnt- yoga postures, stretching, aerobic work, calisthenics, weights etc.

A lot of wing chun i have seen in the UK compensates for lack of technical detail (in particular body structure) with conditioning. To be clear I am NOT against conditioning - just that it should not be at the expense of technique.

[anerlich]

A class full of big muscular students with shaven heads and heavy tattoos, lots of piercings and really scary stares.

The male students among them can sport optional goatees, Van Dykes, Fu Manchu mustaches, beards like the guitarist in System Of A Down or a combination of the above.

Seeing someone there who you met in the joint during your last incarceration is a bonus.

Seriously, you want an instructor whose goals appear to match your own, who you can get along with personality wise, and who practises what he preaches.

[ghost5]

You are going to have to find a school that suits you not one of us. I would say go to several classes and watch them. Things that didn't happen in one or two might come to light in another. Then you can run away and find a better school.

The reason I say this is our school imploded last week becasue of ONE person that had been there less than two monthes. Long story and not worth getting into but the point is the problems were only there when this guy was but they were severe when he showed up. As a result half the school walked out in one night.

Had you watched one class when the problems weren't going on you would have been ready to start that day. Then the next class you would have been thinking how quick can I get out. :rolleyes:

[Fresh]

Long story and not worth getting into but the point is the problems were only there when this guy was but they were severe when he showed up. As a result half the school walked out in one night.

Was it Terrance? :D

[Kuanti]

Thanks everyone (expect sihing who seems to be a bit of a grumpy old man ;))!

I hope to try out a class next week and i'll see how things go.

Once again many thanks!!
K

[Gangsterfist]

nick,

I figured thats what you were talking about, I just wanted to add my 0.02$$


Thats also why we have classes that run over 4 hours long, so we can fit in an hour of conditioning.

[chisauking]

Kuanti:

Observe the sifu \ instructor. If he can control a much larger and stronger student with ease, simply with controlling skills rather than hitting, directing him to any corner that he choses -- you have found your man.

Wing Chun: using speed and skill to overcome a larger and stronger opponent. On this basis, how many wing chun practitioners in the world can truly apply wing chun?

[ghost5]

ROFL....nope we can't blame Terrence for this one. I don't think anyone here could compete with this idiot. :rolleyes: