7 Star Overview Article online now.

[Redfish]

A new article about the 7 Star style is on line now at this location:

Seven Star Mantis: Introduction and Overview (http://tanglang.lifehome-china.com/tanglang4.html)


The meat of the site is contained in the sections 'Tang Lang Quan' and 'Shanghai'. This makes up the larger part of the site content.

Feel free to post feedback in this thread.

Redfish.

[Three Harmonies]

Kai (oops I mean Redfish)
With all sincerity and honesty, thank you for finally posting something that is beneficial to the community. I appreciate it. I hope this is a new beginning!

Cheers
Jake :D

[German Bai Lung]

Coming from a peaceful weekend with five different teachers from different lineages full of sharing and full of openess, I am also full of hope that this is a honest new approach.

The text is well written and got a lot of information. I cannot but compliment that.

[Redfish]

If we follow this link:

Tang Lang Articles (http://tanglang.lifehome-china.com/tanglang.html)

we can see 6 serious pieces relating to Tanglang on the site.

They are:

True Concepts of Luo Guangyu's Seven Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu.
Luo Guangyu - Mantis Footwork.
Repositioning Standards in Traditional Mantis.
In Memory of our Late Grandmaster Lin Boyan.
Luo Guangyu Bengbu Quan Photoset.
Seven Star Praying Mantis - Introduction and Overview.

The articles, the dedication and the photoset are six of many articles published on our old sites. They were usually preceeded by posts and discussions on KFO and across E-mail and real life meetings. We feel these articles follow up on the many questions discussed in the past and also answer our 'most frequently asked questions'.

These articles and the posts that led to them have been steadily released over the past year then developed. The Luo Guangyu complete photo set was previously unseen on the major public forums and sites.

The two replies above from Bailung and Threeharmonies are characteristically lacking in thought and completely free of comment on the article/question itself. We have been producing this kind of article and discussion on a steady basis and there is nothing new about it.

Lofty and arrogant comments complaining about arrogance and loftiness carry no weight, are unrelated to the topics and are getting boring.

The 'statements' on our site are not thoughtless negativity. They are what they say they are: 'statements' - stating a position on a real situation, or on a comment made first about us. The reasons and viewpoints are clearly outlined inside the statements themselves. The appearance of statements on our site are unrelated to the usual work in development found in the Tang Lang section.

When the usual suspects even sink to open h0mophobic name-calling, you do have to think. However, we write these peices because we are deeply involved in Mantis Boxing and will always continue to do so.

Finally. While we are trying to regain some perspective, we must re-state that training hard is the way to understanding. Any article or statement comes after that.

[BeiTangLang]

Since you are drawing hits from this forum ( ref the post : http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36103 ) , might as well give them the other links well & give the "objects" of the statements equal PR;

"Statements"- http://tanglang.lifehome-china.com/statement_2.html

Thanks for the other link btw. Decent info there.

~BTL

[shirkers1]

BTL good lookin out posting both sides of the story...


but I must warn you, shut the thread down before I respond. I can only contain myself... for.. so .... long... Must.... respond.. with ......smarrrt asssss..commentttt... :p

[Redfish]

BTL:

The statements are referred to in the post, but not linked, that's true. So thanks for the link. Any new readers who might have missed it can catch up fine.

Shirkers: Don't worry. You're still going strong. You followed up your "h*m*" posts with an excellent baiting of Yushan's spelling of impressed " 'e'mpressed" ...I bet he loved it. Did he read your disclaimer?

Is anyone who is going to post in this thread going to include some comment on the article contents?

[BeiTangLang]

BTL:

The statements are referred to in the post, but not linked, that's true. So thanks for the link. Any new readers who might have missed it can catch up fine.

Shirkers: Don't worry. You're still going strong. You followed up your "h*m*" posts with an excellent baiting of Yushan's spelling of impressed " 'e'mpressed" ...I bet he loved it. Did he read your disclaimer?

Is anyone who is going to post in this thread going to include some comment on the article contents?

You'd think they would know better than to do that by now,.... LOL!

[shirkers1]

LOL man I love this stuff.. :D I might actually have to work if I didn't have you to banter with. Just so you know, this stuff doesn't bother me in the least and I find it entertaining.
Yushan and I are cool, just a missunderstanding. I guess when you meet someone face to face these things have a tendancy to smooth out a lot easier.

Here's an honest question about the new article on the site. I know there have been a lot of talk about standards and teaching lately. Is the article posted on the chin woo site the traditional standard passed on by LGY? Was this article placed to show the world what the standards should be as passed on by the true successor of TLQ LGY lineage? Now is there a difference in hong kong TLQ and other branches of 7*TLQ? Would their introduction look any different, other then lineage of coarse? If so how would it look different.

thanks in advance for your response.

mark

[mantid1]

Ill bite

I think it was a great overview. Very informative and breaks things down very well. It took alot of time and experience.

Here is a question for who ever posted it. I see you teach all of the 12 word 8 hard, 12 soft...etc...etc. Is there any way that you could give any type of description of the 7 long and 8 short? If you have read my posts you will see that I am interested in these theories. You could reply by email if you prefer, but I am sure that there are others on this forum who do not know them and would like some info on them. Whatever you prefer.

Thanks

[Redfish]

Mantid1

I'm not Master Kai Uwe Pel or any sort of teacher in our group. So I'm afraid I can't give you a more detailed breakdown of the short and long. I take it that you teach that in your school - and that you are 7-star too?

Shirkers: The difference between Hong Kong mantis and other 7 * - that's a very interesting topic. I mean this next sentence as a statement of fact and not as a veiled attack - the terms Hong Kong Mantis and Mainland Mantis were coined by Steve Cottrell I don't really go along with those distinctions myself.

There is a fairly large difference between Mainland China 7* today and everyone else in the world. As far as I can see ... students of Chinese teachers who moved abroad in the previous generation such as Master Brendan Lai or Master Chu Leun don't look like modern Mainland 7* ... and you never see 60-40 stances or mile wide circle-entering stances in any pre-war photos (that I've seen). Our own Lineage has Grandmaster Lin Boyan - he didn't even go via Hong Kong all his training was on the mainland.

It fairly straightforward to make the call that it's the mainland groups that have made the major changes in the post 1949 era. Look at LGY's Beng Bu photo set - he was from Yantai and taught by Fan Xu Dong ... the difference between modern day Yantai club's Beng Bu and his is pretty big. It's a bit cheeky to say "he changed it". So I'll go with a distinction between the main clubs in the mainland today and the rest of the world - inlcuding Hong Kong. (clubs whose teacher comes from the modern mainland scene are included in that group it goes with out saying )

I'm not talking about which is better or worse. Only that the modern mainland clubs tell people that their new style is the original. Then when faced with evidence such as Luo Guang Yu's photos or all the next generations in the USA they say "oh, LGY changed it or "Americans have low skills". The next thing is to handwrite some 'evidence' themselves. We had one visitor show his 'document' from his Qingdao based teacher and tell how X teacher had trained with X master but the birth dates on the 'document' proving this showed that one had died before the other was born :( This is just one example and I'm skeptical about this generally.

Of course, making up lineages and questionable stories about backgrounds is nearly an art-form in "the west" - I've trained with Temple Kung Fu :)

I see MQ is running a thread about comments made by Sun Deyao and American standards. Have you seen his famous VCDs? There is a Chinese site that has all of them online broken into smaller sections. I'll try and get the link posted when we dig it up again. It clearly shows the style you see in China today and should put his comments into a clearer perspective. I will also confirm 100% that it's him in the VCDs before posted the link. I remember watching Beng Bu, Duo Gang and some Qin Na Apps.

[Redfish]

By the way, I think who ever is a good mantis boxer is whoever trained hard for a long time. They can be from Modern Mainland Clubs or from Jackson City TN.

Also, In light of earlier posts on this thread I must state clearly again that I am not Master Kai Uwe Pel.

Thanks all

Redfish.

[mantid1]

Redfish

No, I dont teach them because I dont know what they are. That is why I asked.

No I do not teach 7*. Although I do have some nice 7* forms that I enjoy practicing.

Maybe your teacher could help me with the info?

[Reggie1]

Redfish

No, I dont teach them because I dont know what they are. That is why I asked.

No I do not teach 7*. Although I do have some nice 7* forms that I enjoy practicing.

Maybe your teacher could help me with the info?

If you're actually interested, here's a link to someone in my KF family who explains it all on his website.

Link (http://www.geocities.com/sifu_carl/)

Click on the 'Theory and Technique' link at the top of the page.

[shirkers1]

Well I know that in defense of changing of postures, things change from teacher to student for what ever reason. Chen luen was a fighter so his stances were somewhat higher than others. But also, these two that you brought up lai and cheng were students of WHF who had a different style then LGY. So I can see where there would be somewhat of a change even though they were LGY lineage. Whether right or wrong, I personally feel it's up to the individual and the situation and what they are doing with it to justify stance height and posture. You won't see me in a super low hill climbing stance because frankly I've never had to apply it in that fashion...... ever. But that is off topic. I know my teacher just sticks to WHF and his postures because that's the easiest to trace due to his many publications and his students families being readily available in the states.

I too have heard of these supposed masters or whatever with fraudulant paper work. That is why I say the proof is in the pudding. Any one can "say" they are the real deal or have someone say they are the real deal for them. Any one can have documents falsified, but in the end you have to show your stuff. Some hide and never show their stuff claiming certain reasons why they can't show their stuff. That is why I sound harsh at times about seeing someone move for myself before I'll give them props... I'm in no way saying I'm at the same quality level of good mantis practitioners. But I know what I want to train and model myself after and a lot of these cats are really bad.

As for the VCD's no I've only seen vhs videos of mainland guys. As well as stuff online. That would be great if you could dig stuff up to see, because I love to look at other peoples stuff.

thanks for your reply.

[mantid1]

Reggie

Thanks for the link.

It is full of great info. Except that it does not describe the 7 long and 8 short. That is what I am looking for at this time.

I did get some new info from his site. Very informative.

Thanks

[Three Harmonies]

In total there are 36 throwing principles.

Can anyone elaborate on this?
Jake

[Taz]

I read "True Concepts of Luo Guang Yu's Seven Star Praying Mantis Kung Fu" on the website and I enjoyed the article. I particularly liked the information regarding the practical differences of li, jing, and qi. The definitions were not metaphorical. They are understable concepts. As an exercise physiologist, I can apply these defintions with modern anatomy and physiology concepts and theories. It is my intention to take many mantis concepts and define them to modern science theories in physics, physiology and applied kinesiology.
Thanks,
Robin

[Three Harmonies]

Hey you guys pitch a ***** when no one responds to your article, and then I ask a question about the throwing methods and none of you guys pipe up!? Anymore info on this?
Jake :)

[Oso]

I'd be interested in seeing a list of 36 throwing principles too.

thanks

[Redfish]

"Hey you guys pitch a ***** when no one responds to your article, and then I ask a question about the throwing methods and none of you guys pipe up!? Anymore info on this?
Jake "


There was nothing about people not responding to the article. The complaint was clearly that people DID repsond, but it was not on topic.

Those throws together with the 72 Qin Na mentioned are physically present in the 7 Star System. If you have any contacts from 7 Star they can teach you, I'm sure. Or you can go to Shanghai to learn them.

[Three Harmonies]

**** Redfish, I was really hoping this was a new leaf for you guys, but once again you prove everyone right.
I know much more than just 36 throws and 72 chin na (my teacher is a Shuai Chiao and Chin Na expert), so I really do not think it is pertinent for me to travel to Shanghai.
I was really hoping you guys would open up and share and elaborate more on this.

Jake

[shirkers1]

I think it's as simple as this jake... The information that was posted on that site and in forums was handed down from other people. Whether complete, incomplete, right, wrong, informative etc. It's easy for someone to copy something down and post it on a site, hell I've done it but I also stated that this is just a list I was given but really don't know all of the stuff on it. So it seems that even when good information is posted by this group it is stated that "this is from the LGY lineage of how things should be". But really no personal addition to the subject at hand. The only personal insight we get is remarks about others who have spoken out about the way this group handles themselves in public forums.

Could this be a case of this group just copying something down and not really knowing the details involved?

[Oso]

ok, so when the word 'principle' is being used in that context it really means 'technique' ?

redfish, can you say yes or no to that? thanks.

[Redfish]

OSO

It means physical actions the same way as the "8 stances" does.

[Oso]

just to clarify...The article is stating that there are 36 specific throws in the 7* Mantis of LGY?

I would love to see a specific listing or even just a list of what is considered 'basic' throws versus more advanced technique.

I think Judo runs their throws in groups of 8...yep, just checked:

http://judoinfo.com/gokyo.htm

It would be cool to see that sort of organization in a mantis system.

thanks.

[mantid1]

I dont think you will find anything as systemized as the Judo. The Japanese and Okinawans seem to be better organized.

I did not learn the throws in groups of eight. I learned them as Hip, arm, leg and sacrifice.

Thanks for the site. It has great info. I may have to consider breaking it down this way :)

[K.Brazier]

I was able to download that webpage the 1st time this post appeared. But since then I can not download it. It just downloads halfway and gets stuck at something like 111 bytes a second which means it just sn't downloading.

Anyone else have this problem?

[mantid1]

I just tried it and it worked for me again.

[Young Mantis]

2.5 Eighteen Family Systems (Shi Ba Jia Fa)
According to the legend, Wang Lang's final experience involved a formal exchange with eighteen kung fu masters. The story is documented in a poem from the "Shaolin Authentics" entitled the "Eighteen Families Sonet" supposedly written in the 1700's. While the document does lend credibility to the legend, admittedly it is still difficult to verify and does not provide conclusive evidence one way or the other. Regardless, the legend goes that Abbot Fu Ju of the Shaolin Monastery, invited eighteen highly respected and skilled martial arts masters to exchange their ideas and knowledge on the strategies, concepts, and techniques of the fighting arts - Wang Lang included. After completing their exchange Wang Lang integrated a number boxing strategies and techniques from the other masters rounding out his own Praying Mantis fighting system.

I have heard this account or myth before and I must say, I find it to be a terrible and illogical interpretation of the 18 Family sonnet. I understand that the site does not claim this to be fact and warns readers to read the legends with a grain of salt, but we do not explain the 18 Family origins this way.

For anyone who has studied Chinese literature at all or simply read the Chinese epic novel "Outlaws of the Marsh" a.k.a. "The Water Margin" a.k.a. "All Men are Brothers", one would immediately recognize several of the names in the 18 Family sonnet to be characters from this novel. This novel is set during the Song dynasty. How then could they be present with Wong Long at Shaolin Temple to have a symposium on their respective styles?

I am a strong believer that the 18 Family Sonnet is not a historical record of 18 masters coming together to help create the Praying Mantis style. I believe the author was commemorating certain famous and possibly popular Chinese martial arts figures and attributed certain techniques to them. Some entries are very specific like the "Ou, lou, cai of Liu Xing". Perhaps this master was famous for this technique. But it would be like someone creating a new style today and saying it combines the trapping hands of Yip Man, the shadowless kick of Wong Fei Hung, Law Gwong Yuk's Iron Palm, the cloud hands of Yang Cheng Fu, the intercepting methods of Bruce Lee, etc.

The sonnet is a romantic way for us to think of the Praying Mantis Style. Whether it was to lend more credibility to the style when it was being introduced or to emphasize particular techniques of the style, I don't believe the story is written in the Shaolin Authentics as it is presented above. Certainly, Abbot Fu Ju is not included in any version of the sonnet I have seen so the "story" is not really documented in the sonnet. The sonnet only lists the 18 families and does not say how this list of martial artists are put together nor does it say they physically got together for an exchange. Are there documented sources or has anyone seen the Shaolin Authentics to verify that such a story that Abbot Fu Ju invites these masters to Shaolin Temple is actually how it is written. I have not seen in any of WHF's writings where he describes the 18 Family sonnet with this story.

Just my humble opinion. Perhaps someone has another interpretation of the 18 Family sonnet? I know this is not a major topic for discussion but for some reason, this explanation of the 18 Families has also struck a chord in me.

Vance Young
YM

[BeiTangLang]

My personal take on the subject follows yours with the addidtion of:
I also believe that the principles of the listed techniques entertwine throughout the system.

[K.Brazier]

Hi Mantid1,
That sukka just won't download for me!

But not to worry, becasue Vance posted what I wanted to comment on.

ABBOTT FUJU

Fuju is listed in modern Shaolin history as the abbot at Shaolin around 961 A.D.
Supposedly he invited 18 masters to Shaolin to teach MA. The so called Shaolin authentics is a record of what was taught and who taught it.

So according to this, Wang Lang's Mantis is not a combination of 18 styles, but one of the styles only.
And it is apparent that "style" is more in the line of some principles of fighting as opposed to what we, in this era, call a style.

It has been reported that the masters were invited to Shaolin(by a respected fellow at shaolin section) for the purpose of teaching monks MA so that they could take back some of the Bhuddist temples that had been over run by brigands, or taoists maybe.

I don't know of any solid proof of anything for this story as of yet, though it may exist and just needs to be gathered together. This is part of the research I am doing at this time.

COMPARING 18

The Shaolin version of 18 families is not the same as the Mantis version but close enough.
In the Shaolin version Wang Lang is #17 and he overcomes the enemy, while in the Mantis version he overcomes all.
Notice the dif?

TRUE??

The story may actually be true as unlikely as it seems.
If true it happens just before the start of the Song dynasty.

The 2 figures in 18 family are in Water Margin novel this is true, but there is some arguement that the 1st 36 figures(or less) in that book are actual people.
And there is a lot to say about the star of the book, Sung Jiang, who had a lot written on his real world exploits.

FALSE??

On the other hand, it is more likely(sniff-sniff-wipes tears) that it is a recent addition. And there is a lot of evidence for that.
I suspect, and am also looking for proof, that 18 families is from a MA novel of some ancient time.

It is entirely possible that this is so.

NOVEL OF ZHAO

I have recently found a novel, of Zhao Kuangying as heroic fighter before he became emperor of the Song. This is somewhat well known in Chinese, but I don't think it has been translated into English.

The Historian Ma Mingda went to some length to argue the POSSIBILITY that Taizu Chuen and the history of longfist itself is entirely based on this MA novel.
This can't be discounted in researching the history of these MA styles that they all really started from ancient comic books.

ASSIGNMENT

Before more solid opinions can be formed it is important to continue with research.

1. read all pre republic MA novels and see if any of the 18 family members are there.

2. Is there an imperial edict from the emperor granting rights to Shaolin monks to re acquire their lands just before the Song dynasty?

3. Hantong is written about in history of the Song-official version. Lets get the exact quotes out.

4. Write the exact historical evidence for Lin Chong and Yen Ching to see the probability of them having really existed and when.

5. etc...

[mantid1]

Mr Brazier

If I understand you correctly Mantis may not have been develped by these 18 diffferent styles.

If ithis is true I support your theory on fighting theories rather than styles.

Is there any proof of Wang Langs existence? If we cant prove with some certainty that he existed all the rest of the rearch may be a waste of time.

It seems that with all of the chinese legends and the taoist imortals that wang may fall in the same catagory.

It does not make mantis less effective though.

I myself believed in the Easter Bunny up until a year ago :)


Thanks

[Frogman]

:eek: What are you saying there’s no Easter Bunny!?!?!?

That is some very interesting information. Mr. Brazier I can not wait to read your book. ;) ;)
fm

[Oso]

I dont think you will find anything as systemized as the Judo. The Japanese and Okinawans seem to be better organized.

agreed. but, I think the mantis world could benefit from looking at models of organization presented by others.

I did not learn the throws in groups of eight. I learned them as Hip, arm, leg and sacrifice.

I too learned most of my throws in kung fu as related to body part.
The few Judo classes I've done were taught using the basic 8 throws of the first level.
The jujitsu I've done was organized by the sensei's preference.

Thanks for the site. It has great info. I may have to consider breaking it down this way :)

It is a great site. I use it to go back and refresh my memory on the throws I've learned.

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

is there an interlinear version of these pieces of literature?
or are they really good pieces for learning mandarin?

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

from what i've been able to find from this 18familes styles it looks more like a recipe for the original mantis style:
"tai tzu at it's base" is the style it's derived from;
tong bei is it's governing principle (so...white ape tong bei);
sticking, siezing, grasping, adhering, blocking sounds like Shuai Jiao;
leaking, sealing, falling, rolling sounds like cotton fist fantzi and chuo Jiao fan tzi;
duck like swing kicks seem like zhao bao;

does anyone with an informed opinion have a response?

[mantid1]

OSO

Here is another site for you.

http://judoinfo.com/techjudo.htm

[Three Harmonies]

I have heard it referred to as such...
Chang Chuan is the Father, and TOng Bei is the mother of Mantis boxing. A lot of truth to this I believe.

Jake :D

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I have heard it referred to as such...
Chang Chuan is the Father, and TOng Bei is the mother of Mantis boxing. A lot of truth to this I believe.

Jake :D

okay, thanks. :)

another chicken and egg kind of question:

the form known as 'southern mantis': when did it emerge? was it before or after the development of a style of mantis in the north?

[BeiTangLang]

okay, thanks. :)

another chicken and egg kind of question:

the form known as 'southern mantis': when did it emerge? was it before or after the development of a style of mantis in the north?


I'll take a shot at this,...

I'm guessing you mean style?? I am not familiar with a form know as "southern mantis". If you are talking about a form, I have never heard of it. If you are talking about the style, northern & southern are not even remotely in the same ball-park.

Southern mantis has different power generation methods more akin to wing chun.

As to witch of these came first, I cannot say with any accuracy as for my research, I cannot truely tell when Northern Mantis actually was created.

[Lu Bu]

Reputedly, Nan Tanglang was created around four hundred years ago. It is completely unrelated to Northern Mantis.

[mantid1]

It seems to me that the southern mantis may share ways to develop energy as well as the way they apply thier techniques as the fukien white crane, white eyebrow and southern dragon style.

I am not saying it is the same, but it does share kind of a "Hakka" flavor.



Mr. 108,

Set me straight on this one. :)

[Lu Bu]

It is definitely a member of the Hakka family.

Should have posted this before, but the site www.tonglong.co.uk (http://www.tonglong.co.uk) has some really good information on southern mantis, including the history of Chow Gar.

EDIT: Also, for those who really like to read, here is a link (http://cclib.nsu.ru/projects/satbi/satbi-e/martart/wushu/sm.html) to an excellent Southern Mantis history article written by Fernando Blanco, who runs mantiscave. Enjoy. :D

[mantid1]

Lu Bu

Thaks for that great info!

I think the southern mantis represents the movements of the actual insect than the northern mantis. I am not saying that is better or worse.

The okinawans also trace their lineage back to the southern "Hakka" family.

After training in the okinawan arts then in the southern Hakka based systems (just a little) I can see the connection.

[Three Harmonies]

Southern Mantis (Cho Gar / Chu Gar / Chow Gar) are indeed all from the Hakka families of southern arts in general. There is absolutely no similarity between northern and southern! Just about everything outside of Nian (sticking) is different. I am not sure what they call it in Chow Gar, but they do focus a lot on stickng types of energy.
And it is also true they are very similar in power generation (not looks mind you) with Bak Mei, Wing CHun, and White Crane. The Mantis guys do a lot of (TOTALLY THEIR TERMINOLOGY) swallowing and spitting energy too. The swallowing is an absorption of your opponents incoming attack / energy. Spitting is where you absorb your opponents energy and redirect it back at them.
As for one looking more like an insect than another.....okay, whatever. I do not try to emulate the insect, rather I try to become his fighting instinct and demeanor. I am too **** big to be an insect.

Cheers
Jake :)

[mantid1]

Like I said I dont like mantis because it is supposed to be based off of an insect. I like it because it is effective, could be toad style for all I care :)

I mention the outer appearance only because it seems that the southern seems to have gone through many less changes than the northern since their development. That is if either really were developed by watching an insect.

Is the southern mantis history and fighting theories easier to trace than the northern?

I am still not sold on the wang lang story. I am sure it had something to do with the insect somewhere along the line. I am just not sure it was good ole wang lang.

If it has gone so far off of the original, maybe it is time to change the name to something other than northern praying mantis kung fu. :)

Maybe "Northern Chinese Kung Fu Eclectic Style"

[kejia nu ren]

Perhaps the reason why southern mantis appears to have undergone less changes throughout its evolution is because it, like other Hakka styles, was closed to outsiders, even until recent times..southern styles like White Crane and Pak Mei have taken longer than styles such as Shaolin, Wing Chun, and Northern Mantis to be taught openly (even among different Chinese ethnicities). Hakkas are known to be very clannish as a result of their nomadic history and so it is likely that (even today) there is some reluctance to teach these styles openly unless you are of Hakka ancestry.

[Three Harmonies]

Good point. ;) Glad someone is paying attention ****it!! :D If I am not mistaken you can give us more insight into this yes?

Jake :)

[kejia nu ren]

I can give insight as far as Hakka history/culture goes as it relates to my family ancestry and to my studies in college.... as to how it relates to Hakka styles of martial arts - there is SO MUCH I have yet to learn and unfortunately I'm nowhere near to becoming a knowledgeable resource on this topic of interest. :(