Does Your Master Teach ?

[PangQuan]

We had some people come and check out our school last night. One of the questions they asked was; "how often does the master teach the class"

We thought that was kind of strange, our answer was of course; "Our master teaches every class, unless he is out of town."

So I guess lots of schools have the master there, but the master rarely gives instruction themselves. I just find this strange. Even if your school is host to hundreds of students, the master should still be able to break it down by days and give instruction during each class. An army may be different, but we are talking martial arts schools here, right?

So my question is to those who's master does not teach your classes, if there are any of you. The question would be; Why does your master not teach? What are the valid reasons other than absence of body?

[SevenStar]

When I was in longfist, the sifu started out teaching, but once his advanced students were at a point where they could teach, he let them teach all classes except for the advanced, which he taught himself.

[MasterKiller]

I taught all the classes at my school for years, and when I wasn't there, one of the other seniors taught them. My Sifu would correct people, and make sure we were running things properly, but for the most part he only worked one-on-one with the beginning students.

[brothernumber9]

many of the schools I have visited have seniors running most or all of the introductory and basic/fundamental classes as well as primary handset and weapons, but with the head instructor/sifu/sensei supervising and stepping in occasionally for pointers and clarifications. It is quite common in my observations, though limited they are (my observations that is)

[norther practitioner]

He's teaching a lot more now...

I help with all the beginners, and thats it right now...

[PangQuan]

See, your sifu is still there, and able to correct and instruct as needed. What of the cases where the teacher just isnt ever around. I mean having advanced students teach is all well and good, but...it just seems to me that the master has a school for a reason.

My teacher is present in every class, unless out of town of course. And while its impossible to teach everyone single handedly he will do group instruction, and then when we are all in small groups or solo, he will float, and help everyone. I mean even advanced students may not see corrections the master will.

I was just surprised that what these guys were telling us is that at many other schools (not just kung fu) the masters are only present for specific classes.

I guess I view it as a treasure. Were I to ever teach I would most deffinately want to be present as often as I am physically capable, to ensure that my school is constantly progressing with my ideal vision of the system I teach.

From what it sounds like, all your teachers are still present and teaching. It just srikes me as odd that a teacher (of anything) would basically ignore their school for extended periods of time. I can understand if you have a successor to teach for you, seeing that they would have mastered the complete system under your direct tutelage.

Its like if your grammar teacher said they would be back in 2 weeks and that the person with the highest grades will be teaching in their stead. Its possible, but just seems silly to me.

Am I strange?

[SevenStar]

See, your sifu is still there, and able to correct and instruct as needed. What of the cases where the teacher just isnt ever around. I mean having advanced students teach is all well and good, but...it just seems to me that the master has a school for a reason.

to teach students... And isn't part of their training to themselves learn how to teach?



I was just surprised that what these guys were telling us is that at many other schools (not just kung fu) the masters are only present for specific classes.

yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes wonder if maybe they got lazy and are just collecting money while their students teach.



Am I strange?

yeah, but not because of this thought...

[PangQuan]

yeah, but not because of this thought...

at least that finally got cleared up...now I need a reason. :p

[PangQuan]

yeah, I know what you mean. I sometimes wonder if maybe they got lazy and are just collecting money while their students teach.

I think in some cases, sadly, this is correct. Even good martial artists can have a tendency to be drawn into the corruption of easy money. Tis a shame.

[norther practitioner]

I think what is more terrifying at times, is the skill of some teachers when they open up there school...

[PangQuan]

True dat man.

I hear tell of people opening schools with just a couple years of study...um...no.

I dont see what is so different between people like that and people like me. I can see the limitations and endless bounds by which you must reach to actually have enough skill to be a real master. And unless your like dude from KF Hustle, then you aint got the skills to pay the bills after just a few years.


Just in my opinion I guess. But I bet I have a few backers on that.

[qiphlow]

my teacher gives the advanced taiji students instruction once per week, unless he's out of town (there are about 8 of us). the advanced choy li fut students get class 2x/week with my teacher's son. these are classes for our school's instructors, so that we can have the same standards as our teachers. we instructors teach all the beginning and intermediate classes at the school. the 2 main guys only do advanced classes because the school has grown from its beginnings in my teacher's garage (1968), and our instructor staff is more than competent enough to teach beginners/intermediates. also, my teacher and his son are traveling ALOT to give seminars, visit other member schools, etc. all testing is performed in front of my teacher, so he'd know if the beginners were being taught poorly!

[Becca]

So my question is to those who's master does not teach your classes, if there are any of you. The question would be; Why does your master not teach? What are the valid reasons other than absence of body?
Define "Master." I have two sifus, One owns the school and teaches the advanced class. the other teaches all other classes. The senier sifu owns more than one school, so he can't teach every class at both. I feel in no way slighted by this, however, as Sifu M. would never have turn the kwoon over to Sifu P. if he thought he was not a good teacher. Which he is, BTW. :)

[PangQuan]

I would define master as one with whom you recieve instruction that has been sanctioned as a legitimate instructor of the style they teach by the person who taught them, who of course must be one who has devoted their life to their martial arts, with a high enough skill level to be recognized internationally if need be.

[Akhilleus]

I thought that that was how it was done in the cultures and days of a lot of these old "masters"...the masters taught the senior students, who in turn taught the other students...but I may be wrong...but if anyone here wants to correct me based on what they saw in Jackie Chan movie, please don't bother...if you know about the actual history of these arts and what things were different back then, then by all means feel free to correct me...

OK but let's talk about what this means TODAY...I can see being concerned with wanting to "get to the source" and "learn from the best"...but basically anyone you learn from learned from someone else, so you would probably have to go back several generations and centuries to get to that source...and since almost all teachers are someone's student, whether or not their teacher is sitting in his office while his student teaches you isn't going to adversely affect your training...on the contrary you can be at ease knowing that he is close at hand to ensure that your teacher is receiving the best training available in that system and area...if I had the chance to learn from Renzo Gracie at a school that was run by Helio Gracie I would be happy...I wouldn't be like, this is a ripoff there is someone better in that office that could be teaching me...

If it is senior students, rather than the master, that teach normal classes, then that fact should be pointed out to potential students...

I guess what I am trying to say is that if a master wants to run his school in a certain way he has a right do so...you have a right to choose whether or not to enroll at his school based on how he runs it...however, I would not criticize someone that runs a school in a manner I didn't like, I simply wouldn't joint that school...

[Becca]

I would define master as one with whom you recieve instruction that has been sanctioned as a legitimate instructor of the style they teach by the person who taught them, who of course must be one who has devoted their life to their martial arts, with a high enough skill level to be recognized internationally if need be.
In that case, all of them. I have actually been tought by the junior sifu a couple times before he passed his test, but as he's studied Pail Lum from the age of six (he's my age) I didn't think the certificate made that big a difference in what he had to pass along. :)

[PangQuan]

There ya go. there is alot to be said for the amount of time one has invested into a study.

I dont think a master need be recognized, just have the ability to be if they needed or wanted to.


Akhilleus: I go based from my personal experience alone on this thread. My experience is this; My master teaches all the classes, he will break up groups and assign more advanced students to teach specific movements, but he is always there, to correct, or be a reference if needed. (unless out of state)

But never-the-less, he is always there to instruct the class.

I dont look down on teachers that run a school by a means i dont agree with. Rather I was previously curious as to why a teacher would run a school in this method. I think a few people gave me the answer I was looking for.

My teacher is a very personal guy when it comes to his art, he wants to supervise it always, he takes a very on-hand approach to his teaching. He doesnt want a million students or a million dollars, he wants a few good students who will dedicate themselves to the art he loves.

Where he comes from he was the youngest of five disciples under his grand master. He was imbued with a very traditional ideal of the master student relationship. Of course he cant give alot of direct instruction to every student, but he seems to do so for the students that prove themselves to be dedicated, through time, hard work, and attendance.

That is pretty much where I am speaking from, we are products of our environment.

I see what your saying and I do agree with it, I pretty much was just kind of wondering what goes on out there at other schools.

[Shaolinlueb]

yes my sifu teaches every class when he is there. if he is running late one of the senior students will take over until he gets there. sometimes he has us teach under his supervision.when he isnt there its a senior student.

[Reggie1]

Our senior students teach most of the classes. But at more than 90% of them, sifu is there. He observes a lot of it and makes corrections when needed, even to the senior students teaching. He also teaches most of our applications during class.

Once or twice every month, he will come out and teach class himself. I like to refer to these days as 'living Hell'. He does all the mean old tricks like putting us in horse stance and going back into his office for 10 minutes or so. Or having us start doing jumping jacks then walk outside to talk to somebody until we all drop. It's cool in a way, because he pushes us to our absolute limits.

But then again, yesterday was one of those days and today I feel like I've been hit by a bus. :o