Forward, backward and a circle

[SPJ]

It was a discussion on "Everything is nothing."

Buddha grew up in the palace and everything is provided for. When he saw aging, sickness and death on the street, he was shocked.

No matter what you have, we all have to go thru suffering, aging, sickness and final rest.

So everything is temporary. Health or beauty do not last forever. Buddha meditated to see thru all these. So he said that everything is nothing. He was looking forward from the present. He was not babbling.

In Hinduism and karma, whatever happens to us now is because what we did before or in last life. This is looking backward or cause and effect.

If we think both way: the forward and backward in time, we have a circle or a ring. The circle of many lives, many cause and effect or karma.

Sorry that cannot find the other thread.

So start this one.

This is just a point of view.

What are your thoughts?

:D

[SPJ]

"White horse is not horse."

This is because we further defined it with color schemes. A horse may have many variations of color.

To be more specific, the white horse is the horse with white color. It is not the horse with other colors or all colors.

There is a difference between the white horse and the horse with other colors.

So the white horse is not the horse with other colors. Or the category of the horse is bigger than the white horse. Or the white horse does not represent all horses of different colors.

Everything is relative within a context or premises.

Again, it is not babbling.

:p

[MasterKiller]

"White horse is not horse."

To be more specific, the white horse is the horse with white color. It is not the horse with other colors or all colors.

There is a difference between the white horse and the horse with other colors.
Technically, your eye only sees white because that is the one color not absorbed by the horse. White is reflected off it's coat and into your eye. So, the "white" horse is actually every color but white. He is really the opposite of what you percieve.

[Chang Style Novice]

Ridiculous. Color is defined by perception. Let's say we're dealing with a luminescent object instead of a reflective one. Say, a red giant star. Because light of a particular wavelength reaches your eyes you perceive it as red. Now switching back to the white horse, light of all wavelengths reflects from the horse and reaches your eyes, so you percieve it as white. The rule is the same whether the object is creating the light or reflecting it. Consider what might happen if you put a blue filter between the sun and the horse - it would appear blue because only blue light reaches it. Now consider what would happen if the filter was between you and the horse instead. It would appear blue because the light reflecting off of it was filtered. In neither case do the actual properties of the horse change. It's still white the whole time.

[MasterKiller]

Color is defined by perception.


It's still white the whole time.

So which is it?

[Chang Style Novice]

Good point. Call that second one "The horse's light-reflecting/absorbing properties are unchanged."

[ZIM]

Buddha meditated to see thru all these. So he said that everything is nothing. Does not match with

Everything is relative within a context or premises Because in the first instance the Buddha saw 'something' that was an underlying reality, yet the second statement still values & accepts the visible 'reality' about us.

[ZIM]

Whether we have next life or not is not important as long as this way of thinking can help us to reduce our pain through life.
:confused:
You just said "living a lie is fine as long as I feel good about it" and that an acceptable test for truth is how good it makes someone feel.

[ZIM]

"Living a lie" may be too strong. I would say, "Living in faith". Has anyone seen God? Why people go to church? GB said that we need to attack Iraq because they had WMD, so our soldiers died in the battle field. Their death were caused by "GB's lie" or "soldier's faith in GB" could be interpreted either way according to whether you are PRO war and ANTI war.

To me, there is no right war and there is no wrong peace and a good lie is better than a bad truth.

I can't think any deeper than this. I need a cup coffee. :)I don't see any reason to bring politics into this. But, as long as you did, I'll just note that you've over-simplified the reasons for going to war in Iraq to the point that it IS a lie - for you.

But...as long as you feel good about it, eh? :rolleyes: :D

[mantis108]

There is an old adage that goes like: A General's success is backed by tens of thousands of soldiers skulls.

War (in any form or shape) is a game played by the rich and powerful - the statemen, politicians, etc... In the "grand scheme" of things soldiers regardless of rank are but the pawns on the checker board - a dispensable object no more no less. When the public servant no. 1 became the awe inspiring "Head of State", those looking up from underneath is not that much different from the cult followers looking toward their "leader" as the only true saviour with lust for blood in their eyes and fire of fear in their hearts. Secretly hoping that one day a mere follower become the all bePerhaps death with a "sense of purpose" really would be the only salvation for the flock of sheeps. They at least die happy believing that they serve their perceived duty in life. No one can fault that. It's only Karma.

Mantis108

[ZIM]

Perhaps death with a "sense of purpose" really would be the only salvation for the flock of sheeps. Does the term "arrogant tool" mean anything to you? How 'bout "inhuman cad"?

O by the way:
War (in any form or shape) is a game played by the rich and powerful Thankfully, its all relative. Buddha said so, so its gotta be troo.

[BibitClerus]

look for the Invisible Pink Unicorn
all will be revealed to you

[SPJ]

Z;

Buddha said that everything is nothing. He was referring the future RELATIVE to the present.

We see that the Sun rises in the east every morning. We all know that one day the Sun will burn out its hydrogen fuels and becomes a death star. It then creates a gravitational pull as a black hole. Not even the light may escape. When so much density imploded, it explodes and emits gamm ray so bright that we call it super nova, then nebulus and new stars will be bourned.

In short, we see the Sun today and now, we know that one day it may not be there anymore. So it is relative.

:eek: :D

[SPJ]

Agreed that sex, politics, religions dun mix.

CMA is a cheating game.

It is called tricks or strategy and tactics.

You avoid the spear head. Bi Qi Feng. 避其锋

You attack when the opponent is not prepared. Gong Qi Bu Bei. 攻其不备

You attack where the opponent is not guarding. Gong Qi Bu Fang. 攻其不防

By Sun Zi or Sun Tzu.

Or just surprise attack. Or use the least amount of effort to win.

Or strike the weakest link.

Or defeat the opponent without lifting your hand.

Or the best win is to win by tricks or strategy. Shang Bing Fa Mou 上兵伐谋.

:p

[ZIM]

Z;

Buddha said that everything is nothing. He was referring the future RELATIVE to the present.

We see that the Sun rises in the east every morning. We all know that one day the Sun will burn out its hydrogen fuels and becomes a death star. It then creates a gravitational pull as a black hole. Not even the light may escape. When so much density imploded, it explodes and emits gamm ray so bright that we call it super nova, then nebulus and new stars will be bourned.

In short, we see the Sun today and now, we know that one day it may not be there anymore. So it is relative.

:eek: :D
No- he said that everything is illusion, not that it was nothing. And its hogwash to suggest that he was speaking of the future in any respect. If he had been, his message that the present was illusion would make zero sense at all.

And he did postulate an ultimate reality that is not our shared consensus reality [illusion]. He'd found a loophole in the wheel of karma that led off the cycle of rebirth but still held a form of eternal life.

Its really simple: He said there was one thing - extinction. By finding that, he became 'greater than the gods' who were also subject to illusion, yet he was not. Its not a relativist point of view.

[SPJ]

Yes. He said that everything is illusory.

"Everything is nothing." In Chinese, it is said that everything is empty or void.

This thread actually spun out of the Yoda thread.

Let me turn it into another direction. Using the same title.

What would be your strategy of moving forward and backward in your style of MA?

In Tai Chi, it is said that when moving forward or retreating, there should be a turn exchange or reverse rotation. Jin Tui You Zhuan Huan 进退有转换

In Ba Gua, it is said that move away by crossing steps; advance or enter directly. Xie Chu Zheng Ru 斜出正入


:D

[Innocence]

look for the Invisible Pink Unicorn
all will be revealed to you
hehe
when I saw this, I thought wow he's a zen master~ but then i read that thing under his name and i wa slike errr. maybe not :confused:

haha~
Well i'm new here so not too sure what happened with the yoda post. My guess as to what the buddha meant when he said that everything is just illusion is...mmm...ok, we have thoughts. When we see the white horse, as previously discussed, the light (photons) reflect off it, into our eyes (retina), and via some form of electrical signals, to the brain, and then we "see" the horse, but we don't actually "see" the horse out there, we more see it in our mind.

Hmm, sorry I side tracked a bit there, I actually wanted to make the point that I think he meant the only 'reality' is the exact present moment, which is impossible to capture(?), and our thoughts are always filled with the past (what happened at work today) or the future (what will I do tomoro), we are never in the present. Our minds are never in the present, and our thoughts are never in the present. Hence everything is illusion.

haha, I hope someone who can understand that can elaborate. It's the best I can do, and it's a bit wobbly.

[ZIM]

Innocence-
My reply would be that attending to the present moment is more the method than the destination. If everything is samsara & dukka [illusion & the suffering from that illusion] then being in the present leads away from that, but doesn't by itself take you out of it to nirvana [extinction].

To use an old cliche: To focus on that is staring at the finger, not to where the finger is pointing.

But SPJ wanted to drop it, so I'll respect that.

[David Jamieson]

wow, I am surprised nobody went off with the Krang and Kodos "and always twirling, twirling..." line to this thread title...

oh wait, I partially just did.

very good then.

[Innocence]

heya ZIM~

being in the present allows us to see the transient nature of things, always changing, impermanence. Which leads to the way out of samsara :)

I thought that was important, so just mention it ^^
Thanks for the disussion hehe.

Sorry SPJ i cant really contribute to your question. My style doesnt have strategies governing stepping in and out. (although I was told try not to step back, and step in to meet attacks and continue to step in with heavy hand attacks)

[BibitClerus]

allow me to guide you through the path

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn
http://www.infidels.org/misc/ipu/ipu.html
http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/humour/ipu.htm
http://www.geocities.com/ipu_temple/
http://www.invisiblepinkunicorn.com/