About a move #1

[quasar987]

There's a grab that appears in repetdly in PM and I think it really stinks. That, or I don't understand it. I'm talking about this move: see second picture at http://www.northernmantis.com/supbahtsao.html

Does anyone use that in combat? I use it, and see its utility; it's a great "opener": you do that, then you "enter" with your leg and land a punch just like in the forms (I'm thinking about the end of Bung Bu.. see the transition from third to last frame to second to last frame in http://www.northernmantis.com/bungbo.html).. but the position of the wrist in that grab is so weak because my oponent can always escape the grab very easily.

What are your thoughts on that move? Under what circumstances should it be used, and how? and finally, what are good alternatives to it?

[mantis108]

The opening move here is left side Diao Shou, which some would interpret as tricking hand. This left side Diao Shou appears more often in Seven stars forms because the style advocate the balance of the use of both side leading in the forms IMHO. You will see this idea implemented in this form. It is a great way to bring the rear (in this case the right) into action. The Diao Shou could be a parry, a grab, or a pull depending on the situation. In this sequence, the Diao Shou sets up for the over hand hammer fist which then leads to the following elbow sequence. These sequence applies the basic fighting concept of Fanche Lulu (rigid) and Tanglang Shou (fluid) together as a combo. I am sure if you have learn the Ling side (partner side) of this, you would have no problem seeing all the moves in the form. This form's ling is really a great fighting set including Chin Na and counter to Chin Na. So even though it's a entry level form of the style, it is an essential basic.

Mantis108

PS YouKnowWho, great analysis, thanks for sharing.

[jwwmantis]

There are soft and hard grabs/hooks in mantis. That first hook is a soft hook, meant to control the opponent long enough to apply a fast counter, such as a kick to the instep in this form. Another example of this hook is in the start of the second line of White Ape Steals Peach. The concept of the hook is the same but there is a quick circling (roundhouse) kick to the groin. Grabs using a pull trap usually follow with a stronger tactic, such as a strong punch. You can also utilize the hook/grasp/pluck concept for a hard attack. As seen in many forms, you can control the opponent at the wrist by controlling his elbow, pulling down at an angle or up at an angle, and pulling either towards you at an angle or away from you at an angle. As You Know Who stated, the elbow is the key. Get it past the centerline. But it can be done without touching the elbow. Just my 2 cents worth.

John