Fun Little Experiment

[Ford Prefect]

Hi all,

For 3+ weeks I decided to do an experiment. I stopped all weight training and strictly did gymnastics movements. For those familiar with that Somner article on DragonDoor, I did the planche and lever progressions as well as handstands, gymnast bridges, plyometric jumps, l-sits (on the floor), kung fu stance work, and some kettlebbell work because I didn't want to completely ignore my posterior chain. This week I've gone back to weights to note the results. One thing to say before I go onto that is that my biceps got bigger and the rest my body stayed relatively unchanged.

While I certainly made some very large leaps in my ability to perform those gymnastics exercises, my strength that can be measured by weights went down. All with the exception of weighted pull-ups. My old 3RM (at that time) is now my 8RM. I was certainly impressed that. However my bench went down, shoulder press/jerk went down, squats went down, weighted ab exercises went down, snatch went down, clean went down as did my coordination to complete the oly lifts.

Conclusion: strength is very activity specific and it is hard to find an exercises that carry over to each other. A well-rounded approach should be taken when selecting strength-training exercises rather than focussing on a few core movements for a long period of time. Yes, a rather no duh conclusion.

Some interesting things to note:

-My lats played a huge role in stabilizing me for prolonged l-sits. If my lats were friend from front levers, the my l-sits were dramatically effected.

-Long advanced tuck planche and straddle planche holds, put large amounts of stress in my shoulder my girdle. More so than nearly anything else I've ever done. It made me realize why so many gymnasts get shoulder surgery.

-You absolutely need weights for legs. I was able to jump right back into weights for my upperbody. I've done 2 heavy workouts already for upperbody and am not sore at all. I'm still sore from my first leg work though... and sore bad.

-Straddle planches impress drunken friends but are a lot more difficult after drinking.

That's about it.

[IronFist]

Cool!

I did the basic tuck planche or whatever from that parallettes article posted awhile back and even the first position hurt my shoulders, so I quit doing it.

Yeah you need weights for legs. So why do gymnasts have such big legs? Oh wait, they lift weights :D

[bodhitree]

leg training is hard without weights, however possible.

[Samurai Jack]

Conclusion: strength is very activity specific and it is hard to find an exercises that carry over to each other. A well-rounded approach should be taken when selecting strength-training exercises rather than focussing on a few core movements for a long period of time. Yes, a rather no duh conclusion.


So what do you recommend for MA specific training? I used to love BW exercises, but found them too difficult to maintain while powerlifting. I didn't make real progress in squats and deadlifts 'til I stopped the running and calisthenics. I know I'm stronger than most in the dojo, but it dosen't make much difference when I'm up against an even stronger guy, or I run out of gas because my endurance is in the toilet.

So are you suggesting it's better to do a variety of exercises like running, body-weight, plyo, yoga, swimming etc. instead of just weights?

To specialize, or eclecticize?

[jindonovan]

I only used weights from september 04 to roughly February this year, now I just use my own bodyweight for strengthening. Two main reasons that I did this, is because the kinds of exercises that you use your own bodyweight for, are practical for me. I can get full ranges of motion, and the balance and co-ordination required for some of them transfer into other activities also, I just find them more natural. Second reason, is that I have seen enough people who don't lift, who possess huge practical strength for their activities, and there bodies are ripped.

One question though, for all the people who lift, do you gain a lot of mass in terms of muscle, as that is something I want to steer clear from. I am aiming for a low body weight and high power ratio and find that bodyweight exercises are good for this.

[Ford Prefect]

Jack,

I'd prefer a more well rounded approach with mixtures of exercises that include BWE, Gymast-type isometrics, power lifts, oly lifts, and various anaerobic/arobic conditioning. After you have been working for a while, then putting an extra 5 lbs on the bench press or adding 10 seconds to a straddle planche won't really amount to a hill of beans in your chosen activity. Conditioning needs to take a more general route as there are really no "sport specific" exercises.

Just build up a good base level of strength in a wide variety of exercises and intensities, and then you can start to apply that strength in competition by training in your chosen art... either live sparring or drills specific to that activity. The focus should be on pushing your physical limits in a variety of ways rather than getter "better" or "stronger" in a few different lifts.

Cross-fit is a good place to look to get an idea on doing this. They do a good job of mixing together all the different aspects of strength in short but intense sessions. At the very least, it can give you an idea on how to put together a template for that kind of work.

Jin,

Gaining mass depends on your workout program and diet. You can easily focus your weight training, so you gain strength but not size.

[Samurai Jack]

Thanks for the advice Ford. I am at a level now where gains are measured in five pound increments over a month long training cycle. It's hard to get jazzed over such a gain, even if it adds up over a couple of years. I'm about to enter the police academy, and that means lots of running and BW work. I'm starting to train for it, and let me tell you, I'm not in as good of shape as I thought! :o

[Ford Prefect]

I hear you. I think it's good to find exercises that humble you rather than just plugging away at what you're already good at. Imagine just doing minimal work to maintain you current lifts, and spending that month working on a completely different aspect of strength. From an athletic performance standpoint, the time spent increasing those 5 lbs could be spent in a lot more beneficial pursuits. Good luck with the academy.

[Toby]

All with the exception of weighted pull-ups. My old 3RM (at that time) is now my 8RM. I was certainly impressed that.Did you lose weight not lifting? You didn't mention. Maybe that was it. I lost considerable weight earlier in the year and my pullups went up heaps.

SJ, my endurance is quite good from HIIT and that doesn't affect my powerlifting at all really.

[stubbs]

I've got a dodgey right shoulder that I first hurt doing planche tuck sit. A year on and it still plays up a little bit when I'm training hard. When I feel my shoulder on the right side where it attaches to the collar bone I can feel a gap in the middle that I haven't got on my left shoulder.
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[mickey]

Ford,

Thank you for sharing your experiment with us.

Was your physical/mental intensity level the same as with the weights or less? Did you consider time under tension with your bodyweight exercises?


mickey

[Ford Prefect]

Toby,

Surprisingly no weight loss what-so-ever.

Mickey,

My intensity levels were the same as if I was using weights. I can't speak for TUT since I normally don't track that during my normal workouts. It was most likely less than with weights. I always have slow and controlled eccentric portions of lifts, so a rep takes 4-7 seconds. That combined with the fact that these exercises were very high intensity, I couldn't lower resistance to keep working, and they require a high degree of coordination, which forced me to take longer rest periods, leads me to believe that TUT was a good deal lower than normal.

[mickey]

Ford,

Do you think that the reduced time under tension may have been a factor in your strength losses?

mickey

[Ford Prefect]

No. Like anything else, TUT is relative to a large variety of other factors. The higher the TUT; the lower the intensity (%1RM) of the exercise. If you regularly do 3 sets of 10 but switch to 5 sets of 1 for a few weeks, then your TUT will decline dramatically, but your maximal strength should increase. The only way to match the TUT would be to do 30 sets of 1... Not hapenning.

TUT is really self-regulating if you keep rep speeds consistent. I think too many try to pay too much attention to things like TUT, percieved exertion, and strict adherence to set/rep schemes and even set/rep/intensity schemes when they should really just be paying attention to what the main focus of any resistance exercise is: working the muscle. If you truly understand how a muscle works and how your body adapts, then all the rest of it is just background noise.