Mindset of a mantis fighter

[shirkers1]

When thinking about Mantis fighting theory, regarding whatever your family or style is how is this skill applied and taught? Is it just something that was passed down from teacher to student? Or is it something that you personally have tried and true tested out for your self to see if you can actually execute the theories to all facets of your skills? What ever the theories of your style are in general, how have you applied them in a fighting situation?

Now I pass on what I know, I will explain that I’ve seen or heard it done this way and that is fine if you can do it. But I’ve only been successful with this. Or I’ve never actually used this outside of class. I bring this up from the 36 throws thread and the things said there regarding Single tactic fight ending blows. Aside from actual mantis fighting tactics, how are your tactics applied in combat?

This mindset was in my training from the beginning and from what I’m hearing I wonder if anyone else is doing the same or even have the same mind set. If not, why not? The ability to free fight and not be stuck in the rut of thinking out your fight is essential. I say this from experience in the ring and on the street. From first hand knowledge to seeing it, what you “think” is going to happen 9 times out of 10 isn’t going to happen so you better not get caught up in thinking that way. What happens when you get stumped? You get tunnel vision, you get flustered and start thinking “what am I going to do next” and “why did it happen like this” When you should be reacting in a positive way. These are the negative things that will eat you up in a confrontation, and further your chances of a losing battle.

Physical, mental, emotional control, the ability to keep these things in check will help you execute your tactics efficiently. Someone thinking about anything other than keeping control of these things will lead to openings for your opponent. This will start the downward spiral of physical, mental, and emotional control in the conflict and this is the beginning of the end for the fight. If you train right then your tactics will flow freely without having to think of what needs to be applied. This should be the goal of any fighter.

[mantis108]

Hi Shirkers1,

Well, I am a firm believer of normal mind [re: relax and ready]. I also see both your approach and Youknowwho's. But personally, I am more inclined to agree with YKW.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[-N-]

"Run down" your opponent is the hightest level of CMA principle. In PM term it's called, "When mantis attacks, it never turn it's head back". In order to do that, you have to devote a lots of time in your:

- Entering strategy
- Baiting setup
- Foot work
- Throwing ability
- Finish ability

Single tactic will make the fight "simple".

- He kicks you, you run him down.
- He punches you, you run him down.
- He does nothing, you still run him down.

Similar idea to Sifu Lai's answer when someone asked, "Well, what do you do if your opponent does xyz?"

In all seriousness, he simply replied, "Kill him."

N.

[shirkers1]

YKW
that is exactly what I'm saying... It's all part of the equation. Single tactic at a time is what I'm stressing, it's what you have a better chance at executing rather than thinking multiple moves ahead of the game. When the variables in a fight change with every move, so how can you possibly prepare for what is going to happen with 100% accuracy? Sure a single sucker punch to the throat could end the fight.... but what if you miss the target and then it's on...?

What you posted in the other thread is to know all the counters to what is going to be thrown etc so you can land the one fight ending tactic. You need this knowledge in the big picture, but you better not be thinking about that stuff during. It should be a point of action not thinking. I never said not to train your tactics individually or apply them individually. But to have the mind set that one punch one win will put you in the losing column. That's a fact... Training with your class mates regularly that know what you're going to do and know your flavor is one thing. Applying your training against someone with absolutely no skills/better skills that doesn't know you from adam is another story. When was the last time you were in a street fight? Hell it's been over a year for me, I'm no where near where I'd like to be fighting shape wise. Of coarse I don't think you can ever be too ready. ;) My point is, if you knew me you'd know that I live the aggressive tactics when I fight. But you get it done you don't worry about variables in a fight. You train and execute when the time alows it. You can plan how things are going to work till the cows come home, but I gurantee those "plans" will change when it hits the fan.

Winning or losing a fight makes a big difference if you're the loser who is on his way to the hospital. I spoke to the mind set of walking away learning something even if you are the loser, taking a positive from a negative. But the bottom line is no one wants to be the guy on the bottom getting his face kicked in. So don't tell me winning or losing doesn't matter. Or you wouldn't be fighting in the first place. Why fight if you have nothing to gain or lose? Why train an aggressive fighting style like mantis if you don't think you're going to have to use it?

[Oso]

good morning gentlemen, i think some terminology is used interchangebly when specific definitions of each one should be agreed upon:



Strategy - overall plan or idea on how you want to accomplish a goal.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strategy


Tactic - smaller, shorter term methods of implementing the overall strategy

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tactic


Techniques - specific movements within the tactics

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=technique


Skill - how good you are at the above three.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=skill

[BeiTangLang]

Similar idea to Sifu Lai's answer when someone asked, "Well, what do you do if your opponent does xyz?"

In all seriousness, he simply replied, "Kill him."

N.


If you did this against me,...You would already be dead!

LOL!

Wonderful man.

[holymantis]

hi shirker1.
now don't throw a wobbly here .
BUT 7* MANTIS THAT I HAVE DONE FOR A FEW YEARS COMPARED TO SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO HAVE DONE ALOT LONGER.
MAY AGREE WITH ME HERE.
IT IS A DEFENCIVE STYLE.
look if you see most of our attacking moves come from defencive moves.
SO I SAY TO YOU HERE I MYSELF THINK YOU ARE WRONG IN SAYING VERY AGRESSIVE.


regards holymantis :)

[shirkers1]

:D Holymantis

Defence is offense in mantis. Hence aggressive, and mantis to me is very aggressive in every aspect. Dictating action in the fight. When I say I am aggressive I mean I don't give up. You can be beaten physically but mentally be willing to go on and that can be enough to get you over the hump. I will keep going until I can't go any more. So your one punch wonder may not be what it takes to finish me. So you better be willing to go the extra mile. That is the mindset you should have facing any one. So when I said I'm very aggressive I was right not wrong. I'm aggressive in how I use my mantis, mantis is an aggressive fighting art. So I know that you don't know me and have never seen me fight so you are speaking to what you "think" you know. I'm glad you have your opinion and that is great. I hear ya but I don't agree.

In closing I'm not upset at all. I'm sitting here laughing at how blind some people are. I pm'd mantid 1 the same thing: "I train because it's what I like to do and out of the need to be a good fighter growing up. You can have your talk and theories. My question still stands, when was the last time you were in a fight against someone other than your classmates? Don't answer here answer yourself in your mind.... It is an important point that what you think is going to work and what you know is going to work is a reality that you will come to know quickly if you're not careful. The only person you need to ask that question and answer is yourself. That is the point that I'm trying to make."

When you throw out little digs like don't get all wobbly, expect to get a response from me. That is my forte, I like the banter. To me discussing issues is fun, showing up face to face and playing around is fun, not hiding behind a made up name on a computer. But hey I'm young, only 30 years old, been training in mantis for over 14 years, like to call people by their first name, give respect where respect is given, so yeah maybe I don't understand how you go about your way of living. :rolleyes: frankly I don't see any use in it. Did I prove any more points for you other than I'm an ass? :D I'm not talking about knowing who did what when and where in mantis... that is politics.... Who is right? Doesn't matter, I really don't care about the details of mantis history. That's not going to help you when someone is trying to eat your face off in the street. What are you going to be able to apply in a fight and why. That is what matters in the end, not politics, not age, not forum names, not witty banter. Do you know deep down that what you are training is going to work the majority of the time when it matters most?

[shirkers1]

Why does this always have to turn into a whose right or wrong deal? Or posts where people are attacking the writers instead of the ideas. I know what works for me and that is all that matters. It may not work for you, it may if you're open to it. Same goes for me, I'd like to see a different view.


Just post what you feel should be the mindset of a mantis fighter during an altercation and that's it. It's simple. Don't throw out digs at each other, no smart ass comments directed at an individual then the information can be said and that's it. My original post didn't mention names it mentioned situations. How one should look at those situations and how I deal with them. Now agree or don't that is up to you. Add your own Ideas as to why one should or shouldn't think this way. It's that easy guys.

[holymantis]

hi shirker1
WELL PUT .
LONG AND WINDED. :D
YES I KNOW AND CAN DO MANTIS.
DONE THE FIGHT'S
BEEN WHERE YOU ARE .
GOT THROUGH THAT I'M IT YOUR **** THINKING .
AND NOW LOVING MY 7* MANTIS FOR THE ART.
WE LIVE IN A WORLD WERE WE CANNOT GO AROUND KICKING THE DAYLIGHT'S OUT OF ANYONE AND EVERY ONE.
like i said BEEN WHERE YOU ARE .
and now well beyond your level of thinking about mantis . :D :D
so live long and prosper young shirkers1

[mantis108]

Okay, time to group hug? :D :D :D

Mantis108

[shirkers1]

YKW

"We may talk about the same thing but say it differently" I agree :D

'holymantis"

exactly what I was just saying. Respond to the topic of the thread and not attack the person writing. :rolleyes:

[phoenixdog]

Relaxation and speed are the two most important things. If you can relax in a fight and speed up you will win.Mantis works best with relaxation and speed.It is very yin/yang in this regard.In lots of sparring practice in a small space you can learn to relax.

[shirkers1]

Good point phoenixdog... This point works on all levels whether in the street or in the ring.

[Oso]

I'm still working on the mantis mind, I think.

7 years of hung gar and 13 years of other stuff compared to not yet 2 years of mantis makes me not a mantis fighter yet.

but, as I talk about in the 'sparring note' thread, I finally got into some feeling of the right thing friday.


SO:

constant movement, mostly forward, hands never stop moving

side to side waist jing with most circles

vertical spinal jing with the verticle circles like LKW{edit: good lord, I meant YKW :o } talked about.



Brandon Lai's favor move was a 7 strikes sequence that covers clockwise circle, counter clockwise circle, and verticle circle. Very fast and no matter what you do. His blocking hand will take over your blocking hand and that allow his striking continue (switch hands concept).

that's exactly what I was doing with one set of combinations (I'm NOT, of course, saying I do it like BL :D )

the karate guys had a hard time dealing with that. I think they could but their sport venue training doesn't emphasize continual attacking. they do combinations of 2-4 but always exit after the last technique due to the scoring method.

[Vasquez]

When thinking about Mantis fighting theory, regarding whatever your family or style is how is this skill applied and taught? Is it just something that was passed down from teacher to student? Or is it something that you personally have tried and true tested out for your self to see if you can actually execute the theories to all facets of your skills? What ever the theories of your style are in general, how have you applied them in a fighting situation?

Now I pass on what I know, I will explain that I’ve seen or heard it done this way and that is fine if you can do it. But I’ve only been successful with this. Or I’ve never actually used this outside of class. I bring this up from the 36 throws thread and the things said there regarding Single tactic fight ending blows. Aside from actual mantis fighting tactics, how are your tactics applied in combat?

This mindset was in my training from the beginning and from what I’m hearing I wonder if anyone else is doing the same or even have the same mind set. If not, why not? The ability to free fight and not be stuck in the rut of thinking out your fight is essential. I say this from experience in the ring and on the street. From first hand knowledge to seeing it, what you “think” is going to happen 9 times out of 10 isn’t going to happen so you better not get caught up in thinking that way. What happens when you get stumped? You get tunnel vision, you get flustered and start thinking “what am I going to do next” and “why did it happen like this” When you should be reacting in a positive way. These are the negative things that will eat you up in a confrontation, and further your chances of a losing battle.

Physical, mental, emotional control, the ability to keep these things in check will help you execute your tactics efficiently. Someone thinking about anything other than keeping control of these things will lead to openings for your opponent. This will start the downward spiral of physical, mental, and emotional control in the conflict and this is the beginning of the end for the fight. If you train right then your tactics will flow freely without having to think of what needs to be applied. This should be the goal of any fighter.

cool sounds like kick boxing to me.

[shirkers1]

Vasquez
Being that I wasn't talking about what tactics are used and just the mindset in a general sense, ANY fighter should be thinking that way.... in my opinion. So I don't think it sounds like any style per se, this is the thinking you should apply to your style. It's what surrounds your applying of tactics in a fight. We've gotten a few here of how specifically a mantis guy applies his thinking in a tactical fighting sense. Lets get some more. :)

[Frogman]

To be a warrior in combat is to be of the mindset to destroy the enemy by cutting him down with the up most resolve and conviction. Do not hesitate or waver in your quest to defeat the enemy at all cost. Do not stop until you have defeated them completely.
This is the concept behind “The Book of the Five Rings” to defeat the enemy without thought or fear. You have one goal and the enemy has the same you most be stronger and if you feel you may be out matched in strength or technique then you must have a larger sprite. There is no right or wrong only standing and laying on the ground.

RibHit
fm

[18elders]

part of the mind set is the process of your training. Look for an upcoming article in inside kung fu(in the works now), to help understand the process

[shirkers1]

Hey 18 hope all is well out there. I'll keep my eye open for it, thanks.

[SevenStar]

let's not forget that there is a difference between thought and anticipation...

[Oso]

let's not forget that there is a difference between thought and anticipation...

Anticipation: When you react subconsciously to small details your active mind didn't catch. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.

A big part of my early training in hung gar under my first teacher was making sure anticipation was more often good than bad.

a good point, Seven, what's your definition?

[SevenStar]

pretty much the same as yours, but I dunno if it's limited only to what the active mind didn't catch. I would also add a second definition of getting too far ahead of your opponent - you anticipate he's gonna throw one thing, and he ends up throwing another - which is what shirkers referred to, when he was talking about thinking too much.

[Oso]

I keep 'anticipation' strictly as a subconsciously derived motivation behind and action.

I would describe your second definition as 'overthinking'.

To me, basic choice of positioning is what you use to limit the number of possible attacks. i.e. if I'm outside of his left arm and have some control over that arm and thus his body, then attacks from his right arm a more limited and I can spend less processor time on that arm.

[SevenStar]

agreed. we talk about that in class. I can slip to the inside - it's easier - but I prefer to go outside, so that I can zone off the other side of his body.

[Vasquez]

Vasquez
Being that I wasn't talking about what tactics are used and just the mindset in a general sense, ANY fighter should be thinking that way.... in my opinion. So I don't think it sounds like any style per se, this is the thinking you should apply to your style. It's what surrounds your applying of tactics in a fight. We've gotten a few here of how specifically a mantis guy applies his thinking in a tactical fighting sense. Lets get some more. :)

different styles use different tactics. I can imagine mantis snatching at the arms and doing quick jabs and pressure point strikes when you're advance. i won't expect that from hung gar which is a far more solid style.

[SevenStar]

he's not talking about tactics...

[phoenixdog]

The tactics must fit the mindset. For example, mantis tactics would not work for the aikido mindset. If you think about the insect,the mindset is the classic "patience and speed". The opponent can attack first, but you don't care because your tactics can deal with that.The rapid changes in mantis techiques impart speed not to you but speed against your opponent.The other part of the mantis mindset will never work in friendly sparring, only in self defense combat.It is number one of the eight hard methods.The method is the mindset.

[Vasquez]

The tactics must fit the mindset. For example, mantis tactics would not work for the aikido mindset. If you think about the insect,the mindset is the classic "patience and speed". The opponent can attack first, but you don't care because your tactics can deal with that.The rapid changes in mantis techiques impart speed not to you but speed against your opponent.The other part of the mantis mindset will never work in friendly sparring, only in self defense combat.It is number one of the eight hard methods.The method is the mindset.

LOL you can't actually train the practical applications in mantis.

[Oso]

LOL you can't actually train the practical applications in mantis.


then how do you know they work?

[Vasquez]

then how do you know they work?

mantis has over 50 forms. you practice the forms until they become second nature.

[Lu Bu]

You can train the forms all day long every single day, but that isn't necessarily going to enable you to do all the applications from the forms. It's going to make you good at your forms. Things change when you have to use the techniques on a person, especially one that is a resisting opponent. Forms are important, certainly. But expecting to be able to pull off all your techniques on a person solely because of forms work? Good luck.

[Oso]

mantis has over 50 forms. you practice the forms until they become second nature.


sweet! then I can stop all this sparring that makes me sore as a muther.

thanks!

[Frogman]

I think the characteristics of your form will direct you to the mindset of your given style. It is all in how you practice your forms. If you are just going through the motions then your not getting anything out of it. If you practice with the intensity of being in a fight then you should understand your techniques better. I have been beat up enough in the past to know what intensity feels like. Bottom line Mantis is a very intense style, attaching straight in or side to side, it should be very aggressive. The technique makes up the mindset that drives the intensity to attack in the Mantis manner, so to speak. The movements drive you through your opponent, shredding them. No doubt it has a lot more to do with the individual then the given style. With time, even someone who just practices forms all day will develop some sense of the mindset of their given style. IMO!!! Which counts for very little round here :D

RibHit
fm

[Vasquez]

You can train the forms all day long every single day, but that isn't necessarily going to enable you to do all the applications from the forms. It's going to make you good at your forms. Things change when you have to use the techniques on a person, especially one that is a resisting opponent. Forms are important, certainly. But expecting to be able to pull off all your techniques on a person solely because of forms work? Good luck.

you just have to drill in hours of form work each day.

[18elders]

forms are only a part of the training. there are hidding moves in the forms that u are not going to do by just learning a form. Also many more advanced usages from the individual move from a form. YOu have to be taught these and drill them.
You will not learn how to use your mantis techniques without applying them in a 2 person environmnet.

why does a boxer have a sparring partner??
why not just shadow box and then go fight?

[shirkers1]

vasquez

I was going to leave this alone because I thought you were joking at first but your responses have shown that you weren't joking at all. The other guys have covered pretty well what needs to be said. Your responses are the reason I started this thread. Part of the mindset is knowing how to fight, and doing just forms all day till they become second nature will make you look good in a forms comp. But when you step up to a "fighter" sorry about your luck. Perfect example rage in the cage last night a "kung fu master" from a local wongs school here in phoenix jumped in there with a sloppy freestyle fighter. Although the freestyle fighter wasn't impressive the kung fu guy froze like a statue and just laid there while the other guy slapped him into submission. It was sad. This is what happens when you don't spar and you "think" you can do what you are training.

If you are saying train the forms till they are second nature will help you be better fighter, then you better be saying "drilling" two man drills from the forms. On top of that drilling them in a free form situation. Then that statement will have merit.

Being from a boxing background 18elders made a great point. You have a guy who is a master at technique who hits the mits and bags for years and is perfect in how he looks and delivers his tactics but never spars or steps into the ring against another fighter. Then there is the guy who does little bag and mit work but spars 70% of the time..... I guarantee the guy who spars will wipe the floor with the perfect technical fighter 99.9% of the time (anyone can get lucky that's why the other .%). There is no fighting sensitivity trained into the other guy. He simply won't know what to do because he doesn't have fighting sensitivity.

[Vasquez]

vasquez

I was going to leave this alone because I thought you were joking at first but your responses have shown that you weren't joking at all. The other guys have covered pretty well what needs to be said. Your responses are the reason I started this thread. Part of the mindset is knowing how to fight, and doing just forms all day till they become second nature will make you look good in a forms comp. But when you step up to a "fighter" sorry about your luck. Perfect example rage in the cage last night a "kung fu master" from a local wongs school here in phoenix jumped in there with a sloppy freestyle fighter. Although the freestyle fighter wasn't impressive the kung fu guy froze like a statue and just laid there while the other guy slapped him into submission. It was sad. This is what happens when you don't spar and you "think" you can do what you are training.

If you are saying train the forms till they are second nature will help you be better fighter, then you better be saying "drilling" two man drills from the forms. On top of that drilling them in a free form situation. Then that statement will have merit.

Being from a boxing background 18elders made a great point. You have a guy who is a master at technique who hits the mits and bags for years and is perfect in how he looks and delivers his tactics but never spars or steps into the ring against another fighter. Then there is the guy who does little bag and mit work but spars 70% of the time..... I guarantee the guy who spars will wipe the floor with the perfect technical fighter 99.9% of the time (anyone can get lucky that's why the other .%). There is no fighting sensitivity trained into the other guy. He simply won't know what to do because he doesn't have fighting sensitivity.

you can't actually spar with kung fu. going into a boxing match with kung fu is difficult because you have to think of what you can't do because of the rules.

[Oso]

i'm pretty sure he's trolling.
and not very well at that.

[Lu Bu]

you just have to drill in hours of form work each day.

Oh...well, in that case, everybody had best look out for me, because I just became REALLY hardcore. BEWARE!! :rolleyes:

Should save me a lot of time, too. Now that those useless applications...conditioning drills...ji ben gong...stance training...and countless drills are pretty pointless. :eek:

L. O. L.

[Vasquez]

Oh...well, in that case, everybody had best look out for me, because I just became REALLY hardcore. BEWARE!! :rolleyes:

Should save me a lot of time, too. Now that those useless applications...conditioning drills...ji ben gong...stance training...and countless drills are pretty pointless. :eek:

L. O. L.

bottom line, mindset for a ring contest is different from real self defence. rules matter.

[Oso]

bottom line, mindset for a ring contest is different from real self defence. rules matter.

I don't agree it's the bottom line.

A ring contest is different but it's the only place you can ethically get the pressure testing that is required to know that YOU (screw the techniques, techniqes don't have heart) can function when someone is trying to pound your face in.

Rules matter for sure because they are designed to keep you coming back into the ring so you can keep getting better at handling the pressure.

[Lu Bu]

bottom line, mindset for a ring contest is different from real self defence. rules matter.

Nope. The techniques and their targets might be different, but in the end, I am going to look at my opponent as someone I am going to crush. Period. No, I won't rip out his testicles, or gouge out his eyes, or break his arm, but ultimately, those "limitations" aren't enough to make a substantial difference in the way I fight the person, since the fact that I know how to eye gouge, strike testicles, and break arms isn't the be all end all of fighting for me; I wouldn't use those techniques, or aim at those targets unless I needed to. My mindset will be identical.

[shirkers1]

Vasquez I feel sorry for you.

Sometimes I wish I could wake up and be as naïve and not have a clue. But then I’d still be trying to form chi balls to fling at my opponents, and that just takes to much time and energy. Well you keep on doing what you do bro, it’s kept you out of trouble so far. Oh well maybe he knows something we don’t guys. :rolleyes:

To live in a fantasy world may just be what everyone here needs to do... :D

[shirkers1]

I agree that you can't go into a boxing ring and do this stuff, which is why I quit boxing... The point of bringing up boxing is that the way they "TRAIN". They spar and fight, they just don't hit a bag or shadow box.

I put up a perfect example of a "kung fu" guy (I use that term with hesitation) stepped into a rage in the cage match that I just saw friday night and couldn't do a single thing against a not so good oponent. Yes there are limitations but you can at least strike someone any where you want pretty much, and he couldn't even do that!!!! Why? Because he froze in the heat of battle and just laid there why the other guy SLAPPED him into submition!!!

My X roommate was learning iron palm and wing chun from a book.... I use to try to get him to train with me all the time and tried to guide him from doing what he was doing. I told him the same things that are being said here but he would have none of it. But he was just out there and wouldn't listen.... Well after disrespecting me many times, and just some screwy issues with my house, money, personal things we came to a head and I confronted him on these things and he wanted to fight me. He was training on his own and was ready for me.... So I took him up on his offer, sadly he tried his "mighty palm" tactics that he learned from his book. Well that didn't help him much when he couldn't hit me and his head was bouncing off of the tile floor and it sure didn't help him much when I dragged him outside by his underwear and hair and threw him into the cactus in my front yard.

[Vasquez]

I agree that you can't go into a boxing ring and do this stuff, which is why I quit boxing... The point of bringing up boxing is that the way they "TRAIN". They spar and fight, they just don't hit a bag or shadow box.

I put up a perfect example of a "kung fu" guy (I use that term with hesitation) stepped into a rage in the cage match that I just saw friday night and couldn't do a single thing against a not so good oponent. Yes there are limitations but you can at least strike someone any where you want pretty much, and he couldn't even do that!!!! Why? Because he froze in the heat of battle and just laid there why the other guy SLAPPED him into submition!!!

My X roommate was learning iron palm and wing chun from a book.... I use to try to get him to train with me all the time and tried to guide him from doing what he was doing. I told him the same things that are being said here but he would have none of it. But he was just out there and wouldn't listen.... Well after disrespecting me many times, and just some screwy issues with my house, money, personal things we came to a head and I confronted him on these things and he wanted to fight me. He was training on his own and was ready for me.... So I took him up on his offer, sadly he tried his "mighty palm" tactics that he learned from his book. Well that didn't help him much when he couldn't hit me and his head was bouncing off of the tile floor and it sure didn't help him much when I dragged him outside by his underwear and hair and threw him into the cactus in my front yard.

there're still rules in the cage match. It's not like you can kick someone in the nuts. In self defence - you would use eyes, throat, ball that sota striking pattern. Of course you can't learn iron palm from a book. LOL

[BeiTangLang]

there're still rules in the cage match. It's not like you can kick someone in the nuts. In self defence - you would use eyes, throat, ball that sota striking pattern. Of course you can't learn iron palm from a book. LOL

Vasqezzzzzzz,.......what do you mean you cannot use your kungfu in a ring??

You cannot hit, trap kick, throw or knock them out??
Maybe you just couldn't do it to begin with.

I can use mine just fine even with "rules".
If you cannot hit someone with enough control without hitting their "eyes, throat or ball s" ...you have a LONG time to train.

Training forms will teach you transitions, series attacks & if you pay close attention, fighting theory....but mostly trianing forms just teaches you to train forms.

[Vasquez]

Vasqezzzzzzz,.......what do you mean you cannot use your kungfu in a ring??

You cannot hit, trap kick, throw or knock them out??
Maybe you just couldn't do it to begin with.

I can use mine just fine even with "rules".
If you cannot hit someone with enough control without hitting their "eyes, throat or ball s" ...you have a LONG time to train.

Training forms will teach you transitions, series attacks & if you pay close attention, fighting theory....but mostly trianing forms just teaches you to train forms.

It's not like you can use pheonix eye fist, or strikes from CLF. so you mean in the ring all kung fu is the same!!!!!

[Frogman]

So many valid points. I think I’m going to give up the kung fu and train in the true art of fighting… Hokey!!! :p That is if they ever bring it back. :rolleyes:

fm

[BeiTangLang]

It's not like you can use pheonix eye fist, or strikes from CLF. so you mean in the ring all kung fu is the same!!!!!


So,..if you cannot pluck someones eye out or kill them, kung fu has no fighting value....

LOL! ROFLMAO! TTTTTRRRROOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!

(Back to our regularly scheduled program of mantis)

[shirkers1]

hey frogman, mantis works well in hockey. Those guys had the hardest time with me. :) The short power and jerks were tailor made for in close fighting. The trick was to constantly jerk the other guy off balance so you could get the first couple blows in then it was a another day in the park from there. The grabbing behind the neck and jerking toward you then thrusting forward with your bicep hitting them in the face was a nice breaker as well. Screw squaring off and taking a million shots to the face. They looked at me like a skinny kid at first then after my first mid season here the guys started thinking twice....sometimes three times before squaring off. :D

Oh they've worked out a deal for the next season, so there will be hockey next year. I work (worked) part time for the coyotes promotional staff. So I have a few inside sources.

Vasquez come on now brother. You can't be that naive..... I think you've been hit in the head by one too many abo's trying to bum a cig.

[Reggie1]

It's not like you can use pheonix eye fist

Yes you can.

[SevenStar]

It's not like you can use pheonix eye fist, or strikes from CLF. so you mean in the ring all kung fu is the same!!!!!


yes you can. the only prohibited stiking weapon is generally the head.

[SevenStar]

there're still rules in the cage match. It's not like you can kick someone in the nuts. In self defence - you would use eyes, throat, ball that sota striking pattern. Of course you can't learn iron palm from a book. LOL

Actually, in the first couple of UFCs, you COULD eye gouge - and nobody lost an eye, although some people were gouged. It would result in the fighter receiving a fine and a loss of a point, but if he won the fight, he would still advance.

[shirkers1]

I don't care who you are no one is 100% accurate on their strikes because of all the variables involved.. (movement of both parties etc). Why can't you use Choy strkes? What like panther head fists or something? Why wouldn't you? The point is maybe why would you? Why risk breaking something hitting someone when you don't need to.... That padded fist that is protecting your knuckle more than the other guys body will do the trick well enough...


Quick question... Why is head butting not allowd and elbows are. Is it because the striker could be injured if he strikes wrong. I'm sorry but elbows (which should be used more in my opinion) are way more damaging to the oponent than a head but.

[BeiTangLang]

(mantis....mantis....mantis....)

[SevenStar]

Quick question... Why is head butting not allowd and elbows are. Is it because the striker could be injured if he strikes wrong. I'm sorry but elbows (which should be used more in my opinion) are way more damaging to the oponent than a head but.


the skull is harder than the elbow and is most commonly aimed straight forward - directly at the nose, cheek and mouth. Overall, I would guess that the head poses a greater threat to someone's face than the elbow, if they know how to properly headbutt.. This is just my assumption tho - I don't have any definite answer.

[shirkers1]

sevenstar thanks I'll start another thread with my response.

[Oso]

HEY !

isn't the head one of the 'hard points' of NPM?

I'm trying to remember the debate point about the translation of "Ba Zhou" as "8 Elbows" or "8 Points" or something like that?


;)

[Vasquez]

HEY !

isn't the head one of the 'hard points' of NPM?

I'm trying to remember the debate point about the translation of "Ba Zhou" as "8 Elbows" or "8 Points" or something like that?


;)

LOL never heard of head butt being used in kung fu.

[shirkers1]

I can't think of seeing headbutts in the forms off the top of my head (no pun intended) but I do remember watching some vids of mainland people doing forms in the parks and back yards etc where they were biting during arm bars and thrusting their heads during the forms. Kind of interesting... inspiring actually. :D


vasquez..... I think dundee is on the teli why don't you go watch...

[yu shan]

Mark

I have seen this biting of the arm followed by the head butt, absolutely ruthless!

Let`s not pay attention to a troll... the dundee crack was f`n funny though.

Jim

[Vasquez]

I can't think of seeing headbutts in the forms off the top of my head (no pun intended) but I do remember watching some vids of mainland people doing forms in the parks and back yards etc where they were biting during arm bars and thrusting their heads during the forms. Kind of interesting... inspiring actually. :D


vasquez..... I think dundee is on the teli why don't you go watch...

that's so weird.

[shirkers1]

Hey jim, hope all is well out there... :)

Yeah I'm not aposed to all those little fun things when you're in the clinches like that.. Ask jake... :D Seems natural to poke, pinch, bite, twist, rub with anything available to make the other guy uncomfortable and not want to be any where near you during the altercation.

[Vasquez]

Hey jim, hope all is well out there... :)

Yeah I'm not aposed to all those little fun things when you're in the clinches like that.. Ask jake... :D Seems natural to poke, pinch, bite, twist, rub with anything available to make the other guy uncomfortable and not want to be any where near you during the altercation.

but that sounds like what untrained people would do. 3months od training and you should have grown outta that.

[shirkers1]

Whatever, that's fighting mate. Weren't you the one saying there are no rules in fighting? Those things are valid tools to use in fighting and they help get the job done. Knowing when and where to use those things is where training comes in. So where you would say untrained... I see trained brutality...

No but seriously that last Dundee movie sucked...

[mantisben]

the skull is harder than the elbow and is most commonly aimed straight forward - directly at the nose, cheek and mouth. Overall, I would guess that the head poses a greater threat to someone's face than the elbow, if they know how to properly headbutt.. This is just my assumption tho - I don't have any definite answer.

Funny you should mention that. There is an African Martial Art called "Testa" that is mostly head-butts. Trapping/Grabbing/Locking then striking with the Head. Usually, they try to drive your Nose-Bone into your brain.

I read about it in an old Inside Kung-Fu article.

[Vasquez]

Whatever, that's fighting mate. Weren't you the one saying there are no rules in fighting? Those things are valid tools to use in fighting and they help get the job done. Knowing when and where to use those things is where training comes in. So where you would say untrained... I see trained brutality...

No but seriously that last Dundee movie sucked...

LOL on brutality. you obviously don't know dim mak. You want to keep your head well away from a DM expert.

[Oso]

Funny you should mention that. There is an African Martial Art called "Testa" that is mostly head-butts. Trapping/Grabbing/Locking then striking with the Head. Usually, they try to drive your Nose-Bone into your brain.

I read about it in an old Inside Kung-Fu article.

"Nose-Bone" ????

you're not serious are you?

[Neophyte]

Hi All

Mindset, I would say relaxed, focused on your opponent and the surroundings, calm but ready to unleash a torrent of pain on the enemy.

Even with my mediocre amount of training, 2 years, I agree you cant learn to fight by doing just forms alone. Most of the techs have multiple applications in different scenarios. You need to learn the forms to learn the moves, practise with a partner and incorporate them in free sparring. Im still struggling with the free sparring bit, sometimes I look like a flailing frog but Im getting there.

[mantisben]

"Nose-Bone" ????

you're not serious are you?

Maybe it's called Cartilage(?) or something, but I'm no medic. It is a piece located in your nose that when struck with enough force, at the correct angle, will push it into your brain from what I've heard.

[Oso]

it would be cartilidge.

but, it's not nearly long enough. it would have to pass through the upper sinus cavity first before it even got to the brain and then it would only barely do damage to the frontal lobe...if it got through the sinus cavity at all.

I don't think the cartilidge would retain enough stiffness if dislocated from the bit of bone where it's anchored anyway and would just mush out inside the sinus cavity IF it even got that far.

mostly you would just cause some decent pain, get the eyes closed and allow yourself some follow up time.

basically that whole thing is an urban myth.

[SevenStar]

LOL on brutality. you obviously don't know dim mak. You want to keep your head well away from a DM expert.


here we go again....

[SevenStar]

but that sounds like what untrained people would do. 3months od training and you should have grown outta that.


I don't agree with shirk on this one, but I see what he is saying. You are looking at it from the standpoint of "pinching and biting aren't legitimate fighting techniques", while he looks at it in a different light. You, I would say are wrong. He's right, but of a different opinion than my own.

let's say we are in a clinch. I am smothering all of your space, which is preventing you from striking me. If you can pinch or bite me hard enough, you may be able to evoke a reaction from me - get me to move just enough that you get room to utilize a technique. That is a very valid thought.

I think that the results of that will vary greatly, however. I can honestly say that pretty much any season grappler will shake of a pinch, scratch, etc. - it will just tick him off. I think positioning and utilizing shorter strikes - like shoulder strikes - would server you better the majority of the time.

[Oso]

I think McD's is serving Dim Mak now in an attempt to attract the Asian audience.

[mantisben]

it would be cartilidge.

but, it's not nearly long enough. it would have to pass through the upper sinus cavity first before it even got to the brain and then it would only barely do damage to the frontal lobe...if it got through the sinus cavity at all.

I don't think the cartilidge would retain enough stiffness if dislocated from the bit of bone where it's anchored anyway and would just mush out inside the sinus cavity IF it even got that far.

mostly you would just cause some decent pain, get the eyes closed and allow yourself some follow up time.

basically that whole thing is an urban myth.

I'm not too sure about that. Not because I know first-hand for sure, but because I've read and heard this said soo often. Maybe it is an urban-myth. Still, I'll never hit anyone upward in the nose with a palm-heel strike, just in case you're wrong...

I found this doing an Internet search. I don't know if there is any truth to it though. Here goes, as posted by "kaya man":

"As far as the nose into the brain, that is a myth. As my martial arts instructor explained, it's cartilage, it bends or breaks. How often do noses get broken against steering wheels in car accidents, ever heard of anyone dying from it? There is, however, a technique used by British Commandos in which through TWO strikes the nose cartilage is driven into the brain. First a knife hand strike is used in a downward motion on the bridge of the nose, then a palm heal follows upward driving the severed, sunken cartilage into the brain."

I can't believe everything I read on the Internet though...

[Oso]

this has been done to death hasn't it?

anyway, there are some areas of the body that are more sinsitive to 'pinching' than others.

inside of the leg near the groin

inside of the arm near the armpit

the sides of the torso from under the armpit to the waist

the side of the neck

these are the areas to attack with a 'pinch'. outside of the arm or leg, front of the chest or back are not going to get you any sort of reaction at all. also, adrenaline and endorphines will blunt the pain as well.

now, to define 'pinch': it's not taking the skin between the index finger and thumb. what I'm talking about is laying the palm of your hand on the skin in the above areas and then making a fist and twisting. that way you are grabbing as much of the skin as you can get in your fist and first compressing it then rending it. Don't think about 'pinching' just press the palm to the skin then make a fist as hard as you can and twist.

[Oso]

i just don't see it happening.

the cartilage is just not long enough to get to the brain or, more importantly, any part of the brain where trauma would cause instant death.




although, this article suggests that damaging the frontal lobe would definitely aid you in a fight since it helps control the arms and hands as well as spatial relationships.

http://www.neuroskills.com/index.shtml?main=/tbi/bfrontal.shtml

[SevenStar]

now, to define 'pinch': it's not taking the skin between the index finger and thumb. what I'm talking about is laying the palm of your hand on the skin in the above areas and then making a fist and twisting. that way you are grabbing as much of the skin as you can get in your fist and first compressing it then rending it. Don't think about 'pinching' just press the palm to the skin then make a fist as hard as you can and twist.

Yeah, that's the same method I'm referring to. We covered it a while back in bjj as a "dirty" way that you can get someone to make space so you can escape the mount. We only covered it a few times, and it's been like 1.5 years since the last time. We focus more on technical escapes.

[SevenStar]

i just don't see it happening.

the cartilage is just not long enough to get to the brain or, more importantly, any part of the brain where trauma would cause instant death.




although, this article suggests that damaging the frontal lobe would definitely aid you in a fight since it helps control the arms and hands as well as spatial relationships.

http://www.neuroskills.com/index.shtml?main=/tbi/bfrontal.shtml


my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

[-N-]

I think McD's is serving Dim Mak now in an attempt to attract the Asian audience.
Hahaha.... Yeah, I like those little shrimp dumplings. The curry pastries are good too :)

The pork dumplings aren't as good. Too much cartilage.... :rolleyes:

N.

[Oso]

my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

yea, but if you use a hammer then a cartilage in the brain will be the least of his worries. :p




on the pinching: I agree, being able to escape via technical superiority is great, and a goal. But, if opponent is better (talking 'street', not sport) then I feel that teaching a good way to 'pinch' succesfully fills the gap till more technical skills are learned.

i taught a defense vs. a standing front bear hug w/ your arms pinned the other day:

both hands grab skin at the waist, twist and push away
next, assuming a reaction gives you space.
start lifting the knee upward then stomping downward with the instep of your foot
contacting targets of opportunity on both the upward and downward strokes
don't stop till the arms are off you
run away if possible

variations and 'what if' were discussed to some degree
headbutting was brought up as well.

[mantisben]

my uinderstanding is the same as yours. you would have to hit a guy with a hammer in order to drive it up far enough to hit the brain.

Oso,

Thanks for the graphics. They look very helpful.

SevenStar,

Are you implying it could be done with enough force? Could somebody like Mike Tyson, bare-knuckle, hitting someone with all of his might, and the cartilage still in their nose (not surgically removed like Professional boxers do), with his most powerful right-hook landing square above the upper-lip right under the nose, driving his fist upwards? Do you think it is possible to send cartilage fragments into the brain?

This'll be my last question off-topic.

[SevenStar]

I won't say it's impossible, but it would take a massive impact. BUT, such a massive impact I'd imagine would make the cartilage bend, in which case, it wouldn't work...

[Samurai Jack]

(not surgically removed like Professional boxers do)

Who told you boxers have their septal cartilage surgically removed? Tee-hee, that's funny. I'll have to pass that one on to my non-martial artist friends along with the my-hands-are-registered-deadly-weapons myth.

I can see it now; "That's not really cartilage Biff, I'm a boxer. That hard stuff holding my nose together is just my 'nose-bone' and a little graphite."

:D You made my day.

[Vasquez]

I don't agree with shirk on this one, but I see what he is saying. You are looking at it from the standpoint of "pinching and biting aren't legitimate fighting techniques", while he looks at it in a different light. You, I would say are wrong. He's right, but of a different opinion than my own.

let's say we are in a clinch. I am smothering all of your space, which is preventing you from striking me. If you can pinch or bite me hard enough, you may be able to evoke a reaction from me - get me to move just enough that you get room to utilize a technique. That is a very valid thought.

I think that the results of that will vary greatly, however. I can honestly say that pretty much any season grappler will shake of a pinch, scratch, etc. - it will just tick him off. I think positioning and utilizing shorter strikes - like shoulder strikes - would server you better the majority of the time.

tcma has many clawing techniques

[Pilot]

Going back to the original question, it just comes down to basics. Practice until you act without thinking, and then practice more. It is like the person giving a speech for the first time in front of a crowd. He is sweating, nervous, his mind is blanking, and he some how stumbles through it all, but with bad reviews. The guy that has done thousands of these speeches can rattle on without missing a beat for hours, and he already knows what jokes work. :)

[SevenStar]

tcma has many clawing techniques


yes, it does - what's your point?

[mantisben]

(not surgically removed like Professional boxers do)

Who told you boxers have their septal cartilage surgically removed? Tee-hee, that's funny. I'll have to pass that one on to my non-martial artist friends along with the my-hands-are-registered-deadly-weapons myth.

I can see it now; "That's not really cartilage Biff, I'm a boxer. That hard stuff holding my nose together is just my 'nose-bone' and a little graphite."

:D You made my day.

I've heard from several sources that Professional Boxers get the cartilage from their noses removed, since most Professional Boxers will, eventually, get hit in the nose.

I've also heard that Professional fighters have to have their hands "Registered". I don't know if it is specifically their "hands", or if they just have to notify some "authority" that they're allowed to hit, only in extreme self-defense situations.

Maybe another myth?

[Vasquez]

yes, it does - what's your point?

close range you can use eagle claw or tiger claw or dm but you don't believe in that

[Samurai Jack]

I've heard from several sources that Professional Boxers get the cartilage from their noses removed, since most Professional Boxers will, eventually, get hit in the nose.

I've also heard that Professional fighters have to have their hands "Registered". I don't know if it is specifically their "hands", or if they just have to notify some "authority" that they're allowed to hit, only in extreme self-defense situations.

Maybe another myth?

Sorry man, I really thought you were joking. Anyhow, I challenge you to find a source for either of those assertions. You won't... because they're both myths. Actually, the "registering" thing is a myth; someone was outright pulling your leg with the cartilage removal thing.

Do you have any idea what people look like after they lose thier septal cartilage? It's disgusting, check it out:

here! (http://www.grumpyoldblog.com/blog/archives/Whakco_Jacko.jpg)

[SevenStar]

close range you can use eagle claw or tiger claw or dm but you don't believe in that


eagle and tiger claw are valid, but you still have no point. We already talking about that... pinching techniques from a clinch. It was actually a grappler who showed it to me though -did they get it from cma?

[Vasquez]

eagle and tiger claw are valid, but you still have no point. We already talking about that... pinching techniques from a clinch. It was actually a grappler who showed it to me though -did they get it from cma?

Pinching does not have depth. It;s just annoying. If its a 1 inch punch with a pheonix eye fist that's different. I've read Shum Lung's eagle claw book. He could crush porceline tea cups with his claw - now that's power. Bascially if someone grapples you, you just crush their forearm etc.

[BeiTangLang]

Pinching does not have depth. It;s just annoying. If its a 1 inch punch with a pheonix eye fist that's different. I've read Shum Lung's eagle claw book. He could crush porceline tea cups with his claw - now that's power. Bascially if someone grapples you, you just crush their forearm etc.

Man,..you don't get it. as Oso said earlier on, the "pinch" is grabbing skin, muscle & whatever else may be there with your whole hand, crushing it & twisting as if to rip it off the body....not like pinching a waitresses behind in a truck-stop. The is a huge difference.

[Vasquez]

Man,..you don't get it. as Oso said earlier on, the "pinch" is grabbing skin, muscle & whatever else may be there with your whole hand, crushing it & twisting as if to rip it off the body....not like pinching a waitresses behind in a truck-stop. The is a huge difference.

You need special training / conditioning to do this effectively.

[mantid1]

Loosly translated form an old manual


The Inner Core of the Praying Mantis Boxer


The Inner Core of a strong Boxer consists of these elements:

A: The Nervous System

B: Hardness

C: Irritability Threshold (Control)


A: The Nervous System

The nervous system in one of the two most critical components in the core of a truly strong Boxer. It is the Boxers ability to perform in a conflict with a cool head and without nervousness, fear or flight.

B: Hardness

Hardness is the Boxers ability to recuperate from a conflict or to operate and recuperate after multiple attacks within one conflict.


C: Irritability Threshold (control)

The irritability threshold is the amount of psychological stress (not physical stress) the Boxer can withstand and keeping in control of his/her fight or flight instincts and determining what is a real threat and what response is appropriate.

Conclusion:

Overall, you can teach a student fighting using the praying mantis system, but you must start with or develop a strong inner core if the Mantis Boxer is ever to become an accomplished boxer. This must be the starting point.

It is my experience as an instructor that it is the boxer with the strong inner core who becomes the champion.

A fighter with a weak Inner Core can be compared to a house with a weak foundation. The house with the weak foundation may look very pretty but when it is attacked with the full ferocity of a storm it will crumble and fall like the Boxer with the weak inner core.

[shirkers1]

Great imput mantid1..

[SevenStar]

You need special training / conditioning to do this effectively.


to grab skin? No you don't. And any no gi grappler is proficient in grabbing muscles. Now, to crush things, yes, that would take some training.

[Oso]

why is anyone still arguing with Vasquez?

I'm still trying to figure out who he is though....

[SevenStar]

so am I...

[shirkers1]

Vasquez is really..................ME.

It's just a ploy to get every one to pay attention to my post and it's a lot more fun when you argue with yourself because you always win. :D

[SevenStar]

you mean I spent time replying to all those PMs, and it was just YOU??!?! :mad: :D

[shirkers1]

hee hee...

nah I don't know who it is either... could just be a new pain in the ass.. :D

[Vasquez]

hee hee...

nah I don't know who it is either... could just be a new pain in the ass.. :D

I try to give you good material on traditional kung fu and this is the sort of cr@p I get from you.

[shirkers1]

I try to give you good material on traditional kung fu and this is the sort of cr@p I get from you.


I'll bite.....

Yeah this is the crap you're getting from me... Just returning the favor. :cool:

[Vasquez]

I'll bite.....

Yeah this is the crap you're getting from me... Just returning the favor. :cool:

Shirkers1 guess what: it's raining. D@mn I pi$$ed on myself (you're me remember) :)

[shirkers1]

I've met my match!!!!

or my equal..... :eek:

[Sifu Darkfist]

the absolute essential of any form of combat is the maintenance of the initiative.
to wait and see what happens or to guess a sequence of events or even to react to events causes the loss of the initiative and thus the inability to command the confrontation. I guess to make the issue plain i will say it is up to the Mantis combatant to dictate the course of the short confrontation. Always give and continue to give until he abrupt end. Action is alwys faster than reaction, placing the victim into your web is your goal. not trying to figure out what they are doing. they must be the onr to ponder as they are defeated.

[Vasquez]

the absolute essential of any form of combat is the maintenance of the initiative.
to wait and see what happens or to guess a sequence of events or even to react to events causes the loss of the initiative and thus the inability to command the confrontation. I guess to make the issue plain i will say it is up to the Mantis combatant to dictate the course of the short confrontation. Always give and continue to give until he abrupt end. Action is alwys faster than reaction, placing the victim into your web is your goal. not trying to figure out what they are doing. they must be the onr to ponder as they are defeated.

I disagree. first thing is to use monkey step to hop out of the way and snatch the punch with the mantis claw.

[Iman01]

I disagree. first thing is to use monkey step to hop out of the way and snatch the punch with the mantis claw.

This seems correct, but I really really disagree.

When striking, I know where I am striking, at what speed and where I am going to strike. I am in control. The defender is working to maintain the speed (fast or slow) in which I attack.

When on the defensive, I do not know what type of strike to expect, I don't know where it is coming from, and I have to figure that out before I can react appropriately. Quite simply to be on the defensive and win you have to be a far better fighter than your opponent. Sure I can predict the move before it is throw(the only way to beat an equal fighter) but that doesn't always work. As you stated you would snatch a punch, what makes you think the opponent will punch first? How do you know that first punch wasn't a faint to get you to hop, so that you would be easy picking for a leg sweep. What if the opponent punches slower than you are used to, you will attempt to snatch before the arm even arrives at your predicted location.

If you wait to see what your attacker does, to pick your moves, you have to work harder than the attacker does. If you want to win easily, attack, attack, attack; Don't stop until the opponent can't fight back.

[BeiTangLang]

I agree with Sifu Darkfist & Iman on this one. Even if the other guy _does_ punch first, my goal is not to defend but counter-attack immediately.

"Originally Posted by Vasquez
I disagree. first thing is to use monkey step to hop out of the way and snatch the punch with the mantis claw."

Yeah,...thats a begining...but then what?? With that opener, after snatching the arm with diu sao, change the grip into a fung, twist it & break the arm with the other hand via pec-choy.....then just keep on beating untill I choose to stop.

Out of curiosity, why do you disagree Vasquez?? Do you not think mantis practitioners should maintain the initiative?? Or did you just not understand what Dark Sifu actually said??

[Sifu Darkfist]

i am impressed with the forummers i have read since my (better late than never) stumbling upon this site. It seems that we have some true Mantis practioners as well as experts among the patrons of this gift to the martial artist. It is up to those that Know to make sure they give freely to those that are willing to put forth a maximum effort in achieving their martial skills.
However in all of my years of training and teaching (esp the teaching years) i have learned that as socrates said the "wise man is the one who Knows he Knows NOTHING". For it is he that has the innate ability to move freely on the battlefield without preconceived notions holding him at bay. He can look upon the threat as it is without assumptions that lead to an early retirement.
Anyway i am HONORED to be among all of you.

[Vasquez]

This seems correct, but I really really disagree.

When striking, I know where I am striking, at what speed and where I am going to strike. I am in control. The defender is working to maintain the speed (fast or slow) in which I attack.

When on the defensive, I do not know what type of strike to expect, I don't know where it is coming from, and I have to figure that out before I can react appropriately. Quite simply to be on the defensive and win you have to be a far better fighter than your opponent. Sure I can predict the move before it is throw(the only way to beat an equal fighter) but that doesn't always work. As you stated you would snatch a punch, what makes you think the opponent will punch first? How do you know that first punch wasn't a faint to get you to hop, so that you would be easy picking for a leg sweep. What if the opponent punches slower than you are used to, you will attempt to snatch before the arm even arrives at your predicted location.

If you wait to see what your attacker does, to pick your moves, you have to work harder than the attacker does. If you want to win easily, attack, attack, attack; Don't stop until the opponent can't fight back.

Mantis teaches you precise pressure point strikes -why scrap like a novice LOL

[Iman01]

Mantis teaches you precise pressure point strikes -why scrap like a novice LOL

LOL, you are such a treat to talk to; devils advocate much? ;)

[Sifu Darkfist]

hmm where did anyone suggest scrapping like a novice?
Highly skilled mantis practioners can attack at combat speed and hit anything they want just as those that sit back and wait can.
To assume that just because you cannot do it does not mean it cannot be done

[Vasquez]

hmm where did anyone suggest scrapping like a novice?
Highly skilled mantis practioners can attack at combat speed and hit anything they want just as those that sit back and wait can.
To assume that just because you cannot do it does not mean it cannot be done

That Iman guy who just says keep hitting and hitting and hitting. good dm skill will save you alot of grief and effort.

[Iman01]

Did you read about that troll that keeps stating things that he knows are wrong just to get people to reply to him?