Sparring Note

[Oso]

Ok, how bout a thread discussing successes and failures in sparring. Specifically mantis techniques, of course.


This past friday we visited our karate/jujitsu friends for some sparring. I got several rounds in with a number of brown and black belts varying in size from a 14 year old to a 37 year old just a bit smaller than me.

Had very good succes with a technique Shifu Scolaro showed us early this year. Pretty simple:

Back Fist (bong?) with lead hand hard in towards the neck followed by
Black Tiger Punch (my term-it's the straight, by the ear punch) to the face followed by
Round kick (foot, shin or knee depending on range)

Sometimes I took a shot to the ribs but I almost always landed the second punch and kick. I also would set the foot down forward after kicking and roll over to repeat the technique on the other side. They had problems with the continuous forward movement and the flowing attacks.


I also landed a technique from Bung Bu a few times. The movement near the end of the 3rd road that (for us) is a gua with an uppercut (filing punch?). This worked well if i dropped lower in my posture against a head attack and hung their attack and pressed under with the uppercut.

The first time I did it I got nailed hard in the head even though I landed the punch.
What I did was do the move verbatim out of the form w/o regard to which lead my opponent was in and he counter punched around the gua.

Anyone else play this weekend?

[mantis108]

Sparring is a great tool especially for learning stand up attacks and counters be it striking or kicking. It is also a great exercise for entry to takedowns or throws, well actuall throw for that matter. I am also an advocate for rolling to learn the proper ground game since that's pretty much the only time we could get to exercise what we have in form such as the Ditanglang (Ground Mantis). That's why I love to work with Jujitsu guys even if they mop the floor with me. So I am really glad to hear that you are going out and use the techniques against other styles.

I think in a broken rhythm situation getting hit, throw, and sweep is unavoidable. As long as it doesn't stop you in your track or break the rhythm of your combo, it really is a mute point. I think this is the kind of crippling mindset that our TCMA crowd has to get out of. You see boxers get hit during their counters too but their don't flinch or curl up like a ball. They just suck it up and carry on. Same thing with the rolling, you got swept you got swept but you look for the chance to sweep him/her back. I just got swept by my 12 yrs old girl student just his morning. It is not the end of the world for me because she used the right technique. This is something that we should bear in mind when we sparring or rolling using Tanglang.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Oso]

I did end up on the ground once where I wasn't in control. Thier basic kumite format doesn't follow to the ground though they will sweep you hard as hell in a second. It was after the formal session was over so we were just messing around and he kept moving in on me so I went to my 'ditang' game as I have learned it and kept him backed up and moving with low kicks until he tried a hop over one and I swept him to the ground with the other.

I was pretty happy about that. :cool:

The funniest thing of the night was when I went against the 14 year old brown belt. He has several years of tournament experience but his eyes were wide open when he bowed in with me...but he was game and while I was being slow cuz he looked like he was scared he whacked me in the side of the head with a fast as hell round kick. :D

[mantis108]

Well, I think Kumite might have just well became the Achilles heel of Karate. Your ground kick strategy sounds good.

Looks like the 14 yrs old had a plan by looking meek and scared. lol... I am sure you would have put he in his place for using Zhuan (deceiving) concept on you. ;) Kids these days are too smart for their own good. :D

Warm regards

Robert

[Oso]

LOL, yea, I thought about the tactic he used. good on him.

lots of youngsters...the older brother is 18 and has been a black belt since 16 and lots of tournaments. Also, a 20 year old who was the WKF Junior National Champ in kumite when he was 16....all of them freakishly fast.

[Judge Pen]

I played this weekend with a bunch of people (including a couple of guys down your way, Oso). Most of the time, we were sparring only using limited techniques and drills from forms, hands only drills, one all offense one all defense and switch drills, etc. But in free sparring I got nailed by a big guy (about your size) with deceptively quick hands. I got tired and lazy with my angles and ate a ridge hand to the side of the head. Good stuff.

I do think that most people that aren't used to hevy contact sparring get used to stopping an acknowledging a good technique and that "hesitation" doesn't serve them well when the sparring is heavier and flowing/continuous. It was something that my teacher was trying to stress during the free sparring ("Don't stop with one technique--keep them flowing; multiple attacks")

[Oso]

I haven't seen any of those guys since they stopped by for my open house.

[Judge Pen]

I haven't seen any of those guys since they stopped by for my open house.

Too bad. They should take the opportunity to spar you guys.

[Oso]

Yea, the one guy has invited us to his once a month monday night thing...we'll probably go sometime soon...but I'm not sure it will be worth the time, he kept emphasizing how it was 'light' and 'just for fun'.

also, in the same conversation he kept talking about the mantis form he had just learned...

[Judge Pen]

Yea, the one guy has invited us to his once a month monday night thing...we'll probably go sometime soon...but I'm not sure it will be worth the time, he kept emphasizing how it was 'light' and 'just for fun'.

also, in the same conversation he kept talking about the mantis form he had just learned...

Most of the time, in a class environment, the sparring is without gear, except a cup, and pulled contact to the head and moderate contact (50%) to the body. It's continous fighting, but we try to show control. Of course, that can lead to bad habits such as a stable head and bad entering techniques because you never really pay the price for a mistake. Although, crap happens and noses get busted etc in a sparring session.

I prefer to wear headgear and pads and go 75% contact to all areas, but that doesn't happen much in our formal classes.

[Oso]

went back again this week for more sparring.

same three of us (me, sylvia and becky)

great cardio

good drills. the first technique they showed could have easily been a translation of the first move of xioa si shou.

sparring was ok...didn't get anything noteworthy except a beautiful verbatim blocking move out of Chuji Chuen that definitely slowed this fast dudes leg down.

Chuji Chuen is the 3rd form in Pong Lai. A Tien Shan Pai form PongLai'd by Master Shi.