iron palm- the internal aspect

[wutymes]

i know by training the bags at the same time develop some internal power, but most chigong exercises require breathing exercises prior- but i don't see thsi explained very much. when i did some chigong prior, and sinked into my hands, i could hit tougher material and not feel much. but not many many times before i had to do it again. you all have also heard about the dangers of not breathing- causing the energy to reverse back through your hands into your organs. i don't know if this is true, but the main thing im concerned about protecting my hands.

well the thing is, i learned how to develop long power and this is a soft internal way and not dangerous. but to develop power to exert power in iron palm is a different story since you are hitting objects. my teacher did not recomend using die da jo, as he said if overused it can damage your nerves. this doesn't mean it will, but if its abused yeah.. and so he didn't really care for the idea. he told me to train very slowly( a lot more so than these programs that i see flying around) without.

[wutymes]

best i can tell you is to find a teacher. a faster way to train is the die da jo way, wher you start with a mung bean bag, about may be 3 inches thick, and you apply this stuff onto your hands before and after. it helps protect and heal your hand.

in terms of circulating chi, you start by practicing basic chigong breathing technique and progress. this is not directly related to training. and i am not knowledgable deeply about it thats why im asking about its effects.

[Dale Dugas]

You MUST train with jow or you are going to hurt yourself. Mung beans are only the beginning in some schools. You progress to harder medium contained within the bags. When you hit rocks and steel shot, if you are not using jow then you are causing arthritis and rheumatism to set in. Jow and massage along with qi gong help to combat this.

Usually one stands and circulates the energy up the back and down the front before you even start to hit the bag. Apply your medicine and then hit, apply more medicine halfway through and then finish the hitting routine. Medicine again and then you stand and meditate a second time.

All 3 combine, the hitting, the medicine and the qi gong develop one to hit with internal power rather than brute force.

Its boring, time consuming and most will not keep it up as the results can be slow to see and for the for the first three months of training you cannot drink and alcohol, eat any fried food(clogs the energy pathways) or have sexual orgasms. People look at that and say no thank you.

I have been training my hands for 15 years. Drop me a pm or email me. Ill help if i can.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Shaolinlueb]

i wish they have jow that doesnt smell so bad. the stuff i have stays on my hands for like 2 days. but it works.

[bodhitree]

I'd say don't learn without a teacher. ther are proper ways of hitting the bag, relaxing to do, not muscling through it. find a good teacher.

[Shaolinlueb]

also if you dont train your iron palm right, you ca end up screwing up your energy. causing it to settle in the wrong places and such.

[kung fu fighter]

Any aditional info on the internal training of iron palm would be great.

[Vasquez]

You MUST train with jow or you are going to hurt yourself. Mung beans are only the beginning in some schools. You progress to harder medium contained within the bags. When you hit rocks and steel shot, if you are not using jow then you are causing arthritis and rheumatism to set in. Jow and massage along with qi gong help to combat this.

Usually one stands and circulates the energy up the back and down the front before you even start to hit the bag. Apply your medicine and then hit, apply more medicine halfway through and then finish the hitting routine. Medicine again and then you stand and meditate a second time.

All 3 combine, the hitting, the medicine and the qi gong develop one to hit with internal power rather than brute force.

Its boring, time consuming and most will not keep it up as the results can be slow to see and for the for the first three months of training you cannot drink and alcohol, eat any fried food(clogs the energy pathways) or have sexual orgasms. People look at that and say no thank you.

I have been training my hands for 15 years. Drop me a pm or email me. Ill help if i can.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

The jow is quite poisionous. You need to meditate and concentrate to absorb the poision in the right way otherwise it could corrupt your internal organs.

[Ho Chun]

The jow is quite poisionous. You need to meditate and concentrate to absorb the poision in the right way otherwise it could corrupt your internal organs.


Excuse me Sir, but what is your Iron Palm background, and who was the person that told you this. I have never heard of such a thing.

A good Iron Palm formula will have a few toxic herbs in the ingredients, to pull the chi to the area that is being trained. But, it's not going to "corrupt your internal organs".

Poison Hand training, is very different. This you would have to be very careful with.


I hope this helps,

Steve
www.noweightsworkout.com

[Dale Dugas]

Steve,

Vasquez feels that poisons and other toxic material can be countered by Qigong which takes years to develop( you can search this out in another thread). A rather foolish notion if taken seriously. It is obvious from his statements that he has been shown some questionable training. Benefits can be seen in months not years.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Vasquez]

Excuse me Sir, but what is your Iron Palm background, and who was the person that told you this. I have never heard of such a thing.

A good Iron Palm formula will have a few toxic herbs in the ingredients, to pull the chi to the area that is being trained. But, it's not going to "corrupt your internal organs".

Poison Hand training, is very different. This you would have to be very careful with.


I hope this helps,

Steve
www.noweightsworkout.com

There are many types of palm training. Iron Palm, Poison Palm, fire palm etc.... I know the difference but I've collectively referred to these as Iron palm because the knowledge base on this forum - re. internal chi kung / dim mak / zen philosophy is not that high imo

[Ho Chun]

There are many types of palm training. Iron Palm, Poison Palm, fire palm etc.... I know the difference but I've collectively referred to these as Iron palm because the knowledge base on this forum - re. internal chi kung / dim mak / zen philosophy is not that high imo


So you know the differences, but for the folks on this forum you group it all together as Iron Palm. So now my questions would be, are you trained in Iron Palm, Poison Hand, ect...? And what is your lineage? Not saying that anyone has to have "famous" teachers, but if you have a resource (a teacher that has given you so much knowledge) or perhaps numerous teachers, you easily should be able to say who they are and what was taught to you.

I think that too many times people speak on subjects that they have only heard or read little about. So they have never had the experience to make an educated statement about. Not saying that anyone here replying to this topic falls into that catagory.

[Vasquez]

So you know the differences, but for the folks on this forum you group it all together as Iron Palm. So now my questions would be, are you trained in Iron Palm, Poison Hand, ect...? And what is your lineage? Not saying that anyone has to have "famous" teachers, but if you have a resource (a teacher that has given you so much knowledge) or perhaps numerous teachers, you easily should be able to say who they are and what was taught to you.

I think that too many times people speak on subjects that they have only heard or read little about. So they have never had the experience to make an educated statement about. Not saying that anyone here replying to this topic falls into that catagory.

My sifu studied extensively with the WuDang Lohan school in China.

[Dale Dugas]

V,

Usually you do not find the two schools mixed together. Wu Dang not being a style per say but a temple on a mountain where taiji was created. Stories mostly, but myths do seem to contain seeds of truth/reality.

Lohan usually was credited to a total shaolin style. Though I have heard of Tieh Lohan Chuan developed in a temple where the master was nicknamed the iron buddha.

I have never heard of the style before, but that means nothing really. Many styles exist outside of the limelight of magazines and internet forums.

You make some interesting statements about qi and training.

Later,

Dale Dugas

[Ho Chun]

My sifu studied extensively with the WuDang Lohan school in China.


Personally, I always question when someone "studied" in China. If they studied before the Communist takeover, then they must have fled the country after the Communist takover. Because everyone knows that the Communist outlawed the practice of Martial Arts.

Now many times when I question this, people tell me that they trained "underground". Which is quite possible but, I keep hearing that. So, am I to believe that there was underground training happening all over China?

So my next question V, would be what years did your Sifu study in China?

I don't want to come off as a jerk or anything. But, when we are in such a discussion and things are said, it's good to clarify one's background.

Steve

[Dale Dugas]

Steve,

V is a troll and has nothing really to offer.

You can tell he has not REAL training as to the things he mentions that he trains in at his school with his sifu. Most of the things he has said are down right silly.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Vasquez]

Personally, I always question when someone "studied" in China. If they studied before the Communist takeover, then they must have fled the country after the Communist takover. Because everyone knows that the Communist outlawed the practice of Martial Arts.

Now many times when I question this, people tell me that they trained "underground". Which is quite possible but, I keep hearing that. So, am I to believe that there was underground training happening all over China?

So my next question V, would be what years did your Sifu study in China?

I don't want to come off as a jerk or anything. But, when we are in such a discussion and things are said, it's good to clarify one's background.

Steve

Well, he's chinese and he's spent his whole life in china before migrating to Australia which is where his grand children are living. Chinese are a very close knit.

There's heaps of kung fu being taught in china. yes you can call it underground, just like there are lots of under ground churches in china today.

At a practical level, china is a big place and in the rural regions, life just goes on as usual.

[kung fu fighter]

Hi,
Any more info on how to train the Iron Palm, Cotton Palm, and comos Palm properly would be great, and what's the side effects if there are any.

How do train the medatation side to circulate chi in these skills. What are the exercises involved.

Someone mentioned that he dinn't want to talk about on the open forum and was going to pm me the details, but unfortunately the forum went down the next day and I didn't recieved it, can you pm me again.

Thanks
kung fu fighter

[Vasquez]

Hi,
Any more info on how to train the Iron Palm, Cotton Palm, and comos Palm properly would be great, and what's the side effects if there are any.

How do train the medatation side to circulate chi in these skills. What are the exercises involved.

Someone mentioned that he dinn't want to talk about on the open forum and was going to pm me the details, but unfortunately the forum went down the next day and I didn't recieved it, can you pm me again.

Thanks
kung fu fighter

I've watched the program fight school where celebs train iron palm they gotten their hands bruised. The stance training was awesome.

[Dale Dugas]

V,

Yeah I watch some show and it was awesome, and it showed these secrets, and it was like so cool and awesome.

PLEEEASSSEEE..

V, you out of high school yet?

didnt think so.

In Boston,

Dale

[Wong Ying Home]

By measuring and stating how cool the stuff was in fight school...you have truely risen to your level of incompetance.

[Ho Chun]

Meditation should occur before and after Iron Palm training. The before meditation that I do is a very common "circling of the Chi".

Standing with your feet shoulder width apart, insert your right thumb into your navel, place your left thumb in the middle of your right palm. Let your hands cross.
Inhale and visualize your chi moving from your navel, down around your "tant", up you back, to the top of your head. Exhale visualizing that it's going down your face, throat, chest, ect...This is all done in a continuous breath, slow and controlled.
This beginning meditation is done for 5 to 6 minutes.

Iron Palm training teaches you to relax. Through relaxation big things happen.

Have you ever tried to "kill" a baseball? What generally happens is you hit a little grounder back to the pitcher. Ever swing nice and easy, and the ball goes over the outfielders head? This is smooth and flowing, this is what you can gain through "proper" Iron Palm training.

I think any Iron Palm training that hits hard, you might as well get involved in Karate and hit a Makarawri Board.

Softness always overcomes hardness.

Hope this helps,
Steve

[Samurai Jack]

What does sticking your thumb in your navel do, what's a "tant", and why do I feel like I'm walking into the punch-line of a dirty joke?

[Ho Chun]

The "tant" is the space between your arse and your b-alls. That's why it's called the "tant". Tant your ass, tant your balls.

The navel is the center of energy. I know that I will get alot of arguments about this...but here goes. Many people believe that the "tan tien" is the center of energy, located below the belly button. This spot is a muscle that is exercised when practising Iron Palm, to deliver the chi to the striking area.

The navel is where life begins. It's where you received all of your nutrients. It should be your center of focus when you meditate. This is where your, "chi", "life-force", whatever anyone wants to call it, account is located.

Chi, is made up from semen, breath, and saliva.

I don't know how much to talk about here, it's kind of strange, this forum. I like it, but, there is a thread about Chinese Strength Training, but everyone is talking about weight lifting on this thread, it's funny. They should have name it, "weight training for the martial artist", or something like that.

Steve

[Vasquez]

V,

Yeah I watch some show and it was awesome, and it showed these secrets, and it was like so cool and awesome.

PLEEEASSSEEE..

V, you out of high school yet?

didnt think so.

In Boston,

Dale

They were just beginners but in time this sort of training will make them masters.

[Dale Dugas]

Masters hunh?

Like your sifu promised you would be after you gave him money and did all this cool training?

You have no idea what it is to eat bitter and train like you mean it.

You are a child who hides, and talks like a toddler.

I'm here whenever you want to match wits or knowledge, son. Don't you get it, I'm calling you out.

I know you will not take this up as you know nothing and have nothing.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas

[Vasquez]

Masters hunh?

Like your sifu promised you would be after you gave him money and did all this cool training?

You have no idea what it is to eat bitter and train like you mean it.

You are a child who hides, and talks like a toddler.

I'm here whenever you want to match wits or knowledge, son. Don't you get it, I'm calling you out.

I know you will not take this up as you know nothing and have nothing.

In Boston,

Dale Dugas


A true master would not have to call names. A true master will ask questions that enlighten. great way to stop a confrontation as your opponent would ponder instead of pounding you to a pulp.

[Samurai Jack]

Steve, you offer some interesting information. I asked about your muscle restructure tape on your website's forum, but no one answered. You credit the creation of the routine to Damo. He did create the Yi Jin Ching "Muscle/Tendon Change". Are they the same thing?

[Ho Chun]

I'll post on the NWW forum, as we are talking about Iron Palm here.

Steve

[PlumDragon]

Guys,

Was hoping we could get back on topic; as an iron palm practicioner of about a year, I find this topic very interesting. When I learned my iron palm techniques, a very small emphasis was placed on the before and after qigong, while most went towards relaxation and striking technique, massaging, etc. I thoroughly trust the source of my information but unfortunately that source is not available anymore. I tend to think that addidng qigong as this thread initially was stating, is a good idea. Ive started to do so in small amounts and think the results are, atleast neutral.

At any rate, Id like to hear a continued discussion about it from those with many years of experience, as I rather enjoy doing my iron palm training but want to maintain the utmost of safety and utilization of my time spent.

Thanks in advance ;)

[Ho Chun]

The breathing meditation done before and after, I feel, IMO, is almost as important as the striking. One more thing that we do before the beginning meditation is "chi balancing".
I just finished filming some brick breaking, the breaks will be online by the end of the week. Look for them, the breaks are alot different.

Steve

[Samurai Jack]

I've been training Iron skills for over ten years. In the early stages I too doubted the efficacy of Chi-Kung, since I couldn't see what it possibly had to do with hitting. Nowadays I spend much more time training my strikes with Chi-Kung than I do hitting things. All of the strongest martial artists I know do some sort of Chi exercises. At this point I believe that more than protecting the body, Chi-Kung somehow serves to develop power for the more advanced levels of training. In other words, if you don't do your Chi-Kung, eventually your progress will grind to a halt. You'll be stuck at the intermediate level forever.

[Ho Chun]

I've been training Iron skills for over ten years. In the early stages I too doubted the efficacy of Chi-Kung, since I couldn't see what it possibly had to do with hitting. Nowadays I spend much more time training my strikes with Chi-Kung than I do hitting things. All of the strongest martial artists I know do some sort of Chi exercises. At this point I believe that more than protecting the body, Chi-Kung somehow serves to develop power for the more advanced levels of training. In other words, if you don't do your Chi-Kung, eventually your progress will grind to a halt. You'll be stuck at the intermediate level forever.

Very well said, Samurai Jack.

I say it all of the time, "you will never reach the higher levels in the martial arts without it". Think about all of the different ways to meditate, there are so many. I look at meditaion like a "skeleton key", it will unlock many doors.

Steve

[Dale Dugas]

PD,

you basically need to start to open the pathways from your Dantian to your Laogong points in the palms. Many people will have different ways. It doesnt really matter the way you do it except that it works for you.

I was taught to use a combination of visualization along with lots of standing qi gong to get the energy moving.

The hitting of the bag helps to pull the qi to the hands along with the medicine which helps to heal your hand from whacking it on some bag full of hard medium.

To sum it up its mircrocomsmic orbit added to a hand conditioning routine with a medicinal component. There are also internal jows you can use to help make sure your not having any blocks.

Fried food, alcohol, and excessive orgasm will deplete your reserve which is what is moving when your training.

Feel free to email me offforum at Jooklumpai@hotmail.com if you have more questions. You can also come visit the group at Sifu Hamps website as well. He is my Si-hing under GM Gene Chicoine.

Walking my circle,

Dale Dugas

[Vasquez]

PD,

you basically need to start to open the pathways from your Dantian to your Laogong points in the palms. Many people will have different ways. It doesnt really matter the way you do it except that it works for you.

I was taught to use a combination of visualization along with lots of standing qi gong to get the energy moving.

The hitting of the bag helps to pull the qi to the hands along with the medicine which helps to heal your hand from whacking it on some bag full of hard medium.

To sum it up its mircrocomsmic orbit added to a hand conditioning routine with a medicinal component. There are also internal jows you can use to help make sure your not having any blocks.

Fried food, alcohol, and excessive orgasm will deplete your reserve which is what is moving when your training.

Feel free to email me offforum at Jooklumpai@hotmail.com if you have more questions. You can also come visit the group at Sifu Hamps website as well. He is my Si-hing under GM Gene Chicoine.

Walking my circle,

Dale Dugas

watch fight school!!!! gret iron palm training technique. they strike their hands on ice.