Reality Check

[Normski]

HI EVERYONE,

I just a reality check the other day. I was doing shopping with my daughter,
when a stone landed by my car.
I looked up and saw two young youths ,who saw me, and said"Sorry mate"
As I walked in the entrance ,one of youth called out something to me.
I felt challenged , so I walked up to the youth and said " You really reckon
yourselve don't you?" .The youth looked me square in the eye, and I repeated
myself ,and I started pointing at him. " Don't point at me ,bruv " said the youth.
There was a split second ,where a decision had to made
1.use my martial art training against the youths , in a fight I could have won or lost.
2. because I had my daughter ,walk from the situation.

I chose the latter, to screams of more abuse.
The point is, because you do martial arts ,that doesn't mean you always win
street fights?

is it better not to fight and only use your "skills" in life threatening circumstances?
and by walking away , did I give the youths an ego boost so ,they will be
bolder next time.
remember we don't live in a film..............................!!!!!!!!!!!

regards Normski
what are your thoughts.......................................... .......

[Judge Pen]

You obviously made the right choice, but let me get this straight. . . . they threw a stone and it landed on your car. And they "apologized?" I'm assuming from the tone of their voice and their demeanor it was obvious to you that it wasnt' an honest mistake made by stupid kids throwing stones. Did I miss something?

[TonyM.]

Good choice. I always walk away when there's kids involved. (or witnesses)

[littlelaugh]

In general I think it's best to practice peace. I think it would have been wiser to diffuse the the situation rather than escalate it by going over there and essentially challenging them back. You could have just walked away from it in the beginning.

On the other hand, if you are going to have to deal with these guys frequently then it's best to stomp out that type of behavior at the get go.

Cheers,

Laugh

[Shaolinlueb]

you brits and ausie's use the coolest lingo man.

[BeiTangLang]

Thats a tough one. I know you did the right thing ...I think.

The tough part is, what are we training our children to be? Common-place teachings of non-violence and passivism are training thoughtfull (good) people to be victims & targets for aggressors.

3 men on a plane with knives with 200 other passengers aboard...trained to be passive. Who won (on 3 seperate planes)??
The outcome would most likely would have been diferent if they were not all "good passivists".


Tough descisions to be sure.

[5Animals1Path]

Everyone gets their wake up call sooner or later. Maybe those kids'll get a good scare next month, maybe they'll end up locked up for 5 years somewhere down the line. It's not your job to be the arbiter of that time unless they legitmetly threaten yourself or your daughter. Stupid kids do stupid things, even the ones who grow up into cops. (Especially them, if you grew up with the guys I did.) Besides, you just gave your little girl a lesson in mercy. That's an easy thing to tell her about, much harder to give an example of your own mercy.



Of course, now she also needs to see when it's neccesary to apply lethal force.

[bodhitree]

some people never get a wake up call
they end up dead, in jail, and often times seriously hurting someone else.

I agree you did the right thing. I was faced with a similar situation not long ago and took the similar path. It is hard, and i still wish i would have crused the freaking skulls of the two 'youths' that i had the encounter with.

[SevenStar]

I think you did right and wrong. They taunted you. The rock didn't HIT your car, merely landed by it. you went and confronted them anyway - no problem there. BUT, when you got in his face, instead of just talking to him, you were pointing at him. If you lived in my city, heck, even if I was him - you would've gotten hit on the spot, as you just provoked me. If you are going to resolve something peacefully, such actions should probably be avoided. Talk to me, sure, but don't point at me, put your hands on me, etc.

[Akhilleus]

I am no authority on how to handle such situations when the victim is an adult...however, I have attended workshops on teaching kids how to deal with bullies and strangers, so I feel I do know a thing or two about how to teach kids to deal with such situations...I was told at these workshops that the tactics for dealing with agression are similar for adults and kids, so much of what I say may still be applicable, but let's for a moment pretend you were a child...


BUT, when you got in his face, instead of just talking to him, you were pointing at him...you just provoked (him).

That's absolutely right...this makes you look like the bully and only enhances the hostility you are trying to quel...the trick is not to show the bully weakness or a lack of confidence, but at the same time not being a bully one's self...I teach kids to talk to the bully in a loud and confident tone, with their hands up in a non-threatening manner...


The tough part is, what are we training our children to be? Common-place teachings of non-violence and passivism are training thoughtfull (good) people to be victims & targets for aggressors.

The thing you have to consider about children is that if there is a fight, say at school, most likely they are both going to get in trouble, regardless of who started what...we teach them to only use their MA as a last resort, but that doesn't mean they let people walk all over them or run away in fear...this would only encourage the bully to pick on them more...so we teach them to use their voice and confidence to resolve the situation without fighting, and if the bully still attacks them then we show them techniques so that they can hopefully deal with that situation...and I will ask them stuff like, "If I'm at school and a bully grabs my wrist what do I do?" and the answer is of course much different than when I ask them, "When I'm at the supermarket and I can't see my mom or dad and an adult grabs me waht do I do?" So I guess where I am going is you're right we don't want to teach them to be wimps but at the same time we don't want them to be bullies themselves or get into trouble...

[Normski]

HI everyone!

First of all thank you for your comments.......
sometimes in life , you are faced with danger. You can nearly get run over by
a car ,and depending on your reactions you can be killed or saved ...
What I'm trying to say is that ,in all of us ,there very basic instincts
the old "flight or fight" .
This reaction time is a millisecond. In that your whole life experience
"Flashes" before you ,your inner conditioning takes over.
Don't view my reaction as "thoughtful".
whether we like it or not ,we as martial artist are primed to fight, that
is our conditioning, often that may not reflect the outcome of our actions.
Part of me ,feels, I should have left it and the other part thought
I'm going to "crack " your skull......
During the face off when I told that, he thought ,he was big and pointed
at him, He told me not to point at him, I wasn't expecting his reaction,
He had to show to his friend ,me and himself ,that he was prepared to take this
further.
Looking at the situation he might have felt he had the advantage.
He had his friend as back up, and I had my daughter.
Unfortunately in life ,there are a group of people who spend their life looking for
trouble.
That is their life,and they don't care who they hurt or consequence.
These youths will eventually fall into that category.

REGARDS NORMSKI............................
what are your thoughts and feelings............................

[SevenStar]

HI everyone!

First of all thank you for your comments.......
sometimes in life , you are faced with danger. You can nearly get run over by
a car ,and depending on your reactions you can be killed or saved ...
What I'm trying to say is that ,in all of us ,there very basic instincts
the old "flight or fight" .
This reaction time is a millisecond. In that your whole life experience
"Flashes" before you ,your inner conditioning takes over.
Don't view my reaction as "thoughtful".

but, it WAS thoughtful. there is a difference between jumping out of the way of a speeding truck and MAKING A CONSCIOUS DECISION to walk over to those to boys. They were a distance from you and threw a rock; once the rock missed, you were no longer in danger. You then decided to talk to the boys and let them know you didn't appreciate it. That does not fall under the fight or flight definition. Now, if after they threw the rock, they rushed you and tried to fight you, THEN it would be fight or flight, and naturally, you would fight. I'm not condemning what you did - I think you did a good thing, as you showed them that you wouldn't take being messed with - but that was not fight or flight by any stretch.



whether we like it or not ,we as martial artist are primed to fight, that
is our conditioning, often that may not reflect the outcome of our actions.
Part of me ,feels, I should have left it and the other part thought
I'm going to "crack " your skull......

Not really. However, I think there are a lot of people who fool themselves into thinking that.



During the face off when I told that, he thought ,he was big and pointed
at him, He told me not to point at him, I wasn't expecting his reaction,
He had to show to his friend ,me and himself ,that he was prepared to take this
further.

that goes back to what akhellius and I said - you actually provoked him by pointing. The true passive way would have been to just talk to him.

[Normski]

HI,
I have to say I except and respect your thoughts...
After the stone was thrown, and they jokingly apologised , I was prepared
to let the incident go.
As I walked up to the entrance,one of them swore at me.
something in my mind said " I'm not going to except that"
It is doubtful, that giving a " passive" approach would have worked
When actually looking face to face, I quess, there was fear on both our
parts.
On his part ,he'd actually called a situation , which he may not have any control
over, and on my part ,faced with an actual combat situation that I could win or lose.
Maybe I gave the "buzz" ,they wanted,squaring off with a total stranger
without having to prove thamselves.
I don't feel a sense of pride about my reaction,but in someways I'm glad
I said something.
I do not condone violence.
So called predators look for easy prey,when the prey bites back, everyone
is surprised ,even the prey itself....................


regards Normski