xingyi fighting clip

[Reign-Of-Terror]

not impressed:
http://tsd.ncc.to/m/test.mpg

[Judge Pen]

Why? Because the guy was doing the Linkage set "taiji speed" or because his fighter wasn't necessarily dominating the contests, but clealy landed some good techniques?

[Reign-Of-Terror]

because any good boxer or muay thai fighter would have ownd them and none of the techniques that they practised in their forms or partner drills came out under pressure.

[Judge Pen]

Maybe but maybe not; I didn't see them fight a boxer or an MT person. And I don't know the level of the students they showed fighting.

As for the techniques looking like the form, is that ever really the case? Look at any fight involving practitioners of a predominately form based system and tell me that the techniques they use effectively in the fight look the same as the form. Better yet, show me a clip so I'll know your frame of reference for your criticism.

[Mutant]

because any good boxer or muay thai fighter would have ownd them and none of the techniques that they practised in their forms or partner drills came out under pressure.

Go play somewhere else, troll.
Havent you anything better to do? :rolleyes:
Retard.

[Ray Pina]

I just though the video was put together poorly ... hard to follow.

[HopGar]

That was a rather slow version of Hsing I. I know it's much faster in a real life situation. And it was hard to follow with all of the added in effects between form and function(?)

peace

[Three Harmonies]

You guys should research some before opening your mouths. Many families of Shanxi Xing Yi practice their art at a "Taiji" speed. For instance the Song Family Shanxi I practice is all practiced at a slow, rythmic pace. Any and all can of course be practiced at varied speeds, but for the most part slower than Hebei.
Like the speed or not, the guy was decently solid. I agree it was a bit hard to follow with the effects or what not.

Jake :cool:

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Maybe but maybe not; I didn't see them fight a boxer or an MT person. And I don't know the level of the students they showed fighting.

As for the techniques looking like the form, is that ever really the case? Look at any fight involving practitioners of a predominately form based system and tell me that the techniques they use effectively in the fight look the same as the form. Better yet, show me a clip so I'll know your frame of reference for your criticism.

exactly, they dont use their techniques but use poor imitations of boxers and kickboxers, becasue that is the natural way humans fight.

[Judge Pen]

Wait, I just read some of your other posts. Now I get why you are apt to post something just to criticize it (which was my problem in the first place). I can go back to ignoring you, but I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt first.

Jake, I wasnt' criticizing the speed of the Xingyi, I was just wondering why ROT "wasn't impressed." I don't understand the motivation of someone posting a clip just to criticize it especially when they are essentially incognito and their skills aren't known.

[HopGar]

Jake
I didn't realize that Shanxi Hsing I is practiced much slower than Hebei. Apologies. Regardless, the guy's form is solid.

[Ray Pina]

I actually saw some splitting fist in there.... when the student is pushing the other guy back from right to left. It doesn't land solidly, but it takes the space, gets inside position and drives him back.

All in all, the video quality was too poor to really see what was going on, but I wouldn't call it kick boxing or boxing.

[Three Harmonies]

Hopgar and Judges Pen,
No apologies needed. Shanxi is poorly represented over here in the west, so many people think Hebei is the only way Xing Yi is played. I hope to change that mindset.
Jake :cool:

[Joseph_alb]

exactly, they dont use their techniques but use poor imitations of boxers and kickboxers, becasue that is the natural way humans fight.

Thats the natural way people fight, right....when you cover them in foam padding, put some gloves on them and forbid them to use headbuts, elbows, knees and groin strikes. You can still see xingyi this way, but mostly in movement, not technique. Good luck with your kickboxing training.

[Ford Prefect]

Joseph,

Out of curiousity if you really feel that way, then how would you explain the fighting in the first 4 or so UFC's? There were no time limits, groin strikes were allow, throat strikes were allowed, small joint manipulation was allowed, knees were allowed, elbows were allowed, etc. There were reps from karate, kung fu, and other disciples there and it mostly all looked the same. Do you feel those people weren't "true" practitioners of their art?

Everybody else,

While I think ROT is trolling, I can see his point. Why practice things in forms when you don't use it in fighting? I'm sure you could simplify much of TCMA content to make it fighting specific, and yet still maintain the flavor of the style and meditiational/spiritual aspects, but not waste time on things that will be discarded in a live environment.

[Joseph_alb]

Hey Ford,


Regarding all the different styles looking the same, they had to, and still do look the same...but looking the same doesnt mean being the same, particulaily with Xingyi or any other "movement based" (principles) MA.

When you apply a move in a fight, a move you train in a certain form for example, the move isnt and most of the times shouldnt look exactly the same. Training it teaches angles, point of contacts, stepping, power generation, etc, things that arent exactly obvious and you can manifest and mix them in infinite ways, not just "exactly the move you would do if your doing a form".

But you have a point, some things are purely there for....i dont know what for. Should most certainly be discarded.

[Rockwood]

Ford P, ROT and y'all,

In the Xing Yi I learn, we seek to identify and train the "Jing" aka, rhythm, momentum, feeling, essence of each of the Xing Yi forms.

This is abve and beyond the specifics of the application. This is how internal martial arts are taught. Sure, there are great fighting moves in the forms. But the Jing is primary, and that can be applied to any movement.

Pi Quan is splitting movement. Whether I use a fist, foot, palm, arm, etc, I use the Pi Quan Jing to the best of my ability. As if an axe splitting wood. This can take many shapes, but it needs to be programed into the body as a certain... rhythm is the best word I can think of for it. This can only be felt, and is hard to see on video.

Same with Beng Quan, I can use any part of my body that I want, but the key is to grow and expand, always driving forward, eating my opponents space, relentlessly hitting in the gaps as they open. Again, you can only feel this first hand, it makes no sense from the outside and can indeed look like kickboxing. But the rhythm is different. The end result is the same, hitting someone as many times as necessary.

Pao Quan has an upward rising Jing, fast, easy to change, flickering like a flame, moving swiftly but surely from place to place. Alive and vicious. This is a feeling, a rhythm, a body sense that comes alive when trained the right way. It's not just a punch to the face, but that is among the possible ways of applying it.

IMO what makes Xing Yi and other IMA special is the mind training, and the training of the Jings that each specializes in. If you don't have that, then there's no reason to do Xing Yi beyond any other martial art.

When you meet someone who can really show you how these Jings are applied it will make sense. Until then it's really useless to argue over.

Bottom line, Xing Yi is not found in the moves you use, but in the way you bring them to life and apply them on someone else.

-Jess O

[Ford Prefect]

Joseph,

I understand what you're saying, but that isn't the point I was getting across. I know movements aren't always the same as you practice them. If I were to take you and show you the text-book double-leg takedown, it would most likely look a lot different during competition as it does against an unresisting opponent. I guess I'm talking more about modernizing TMA's. Widdle away unessentials. Drill technique against bags and mitts, and learn application in two man drills. Fight, fight, fight. Kind of like what the Yi Chuan guy did. I think it's possible to bring the TMA into modern times while still keeping the integrity of the style.


Rockwood,

I've trained in Ba Gua before and am familiar with jing/fa jing. As far as I know the goal isn't to look like an amateur boxer with poor footwork when fighting, and that is what that guy looked like. Many TMA schools I've trained at or checked out look similar. Now is this a problem inherent with the way TMA is being taught or the way it's being trained? If you want to claim that you don't look like that sparring, then please post a video. Everybody says that.

[Rockwood]

Hi Ford,

Unfortunately I can't watch the vid, my work box sucks, and I have dial up at home. Will try next week when I get back into town.

I think if I looked as good as an amatuer boxer that would be saying something! Those guys have a very high level of skill and athleticism. I only train an hour or two per day, and only spar a few times a month, so I'm nowhere near a golden gloves level.

Pi Quan is grabbing someone by the throat. Beng Quan is punching them in the face. Pao Quan is a fast punch to the chin or body. Tzuan quan is an upper cut. Heng Quan is a hook. But each can be many, many other things as well. So it's hard to say "That looks like Pi Quan." It's much easer to say "That FEELS like Pi Quan"

Xing Yi can look like everyone else. If you try to be fancy and try to LOOK like something in particular, it don't work too well. My goal is to bring the Jing to life within whatever technique or strike I'm doing. I don't worry too much about how it ends up looking.

If I use Pi Quan jing I might drive over your guard to hit you in the face. Or I might retreat and try to come up from underneath and grab your neck. Or I might attempt to arm lock you if you grab me. Doesn't matter what form it takes, the Pi Quan jing (s) is what I'm using, to the best of my ability.

I agree with you that demonstrating or teaching something looks different from using it in a play fight or sparring. The Jing may be the same but its so much faster and harder and sloppier that who can tell what's what?

All the Xing Yi people I know drill techniques with resisting opponents, spar free style and train the mind exercises and Jings. Some hit pads, I like to, while others stick to hitting people. :) I don't agree that this is modernizing it though, this is the way it's always been done by people who want to use it for application.

-Jess O

[Stranger]

who were the kung fu guys in the first four UFC's?

[Scott R. Brown]

Here is a fixed Hsing-I clip without all the sparring and music! I couldnt take out all the transitions, but it is still reasonably good!

I could only upload it to my Yahoo Briefcase. It is in a public folder and you will need a Yahoo ID to access it. Yahoo ID's are free! I don't know what the allowable download bandwidth is, but I will keep the file available in perpetuity!

It is encoded in Divx 5.2.1 so be sure to get the codec from divx.com if you dont have it.

If there are any other files anyone knows of they want fixed just e-mail where to get it and what you want done and i will be happy to oblige!!

It is still uploading and i need to get to work i will insert the link in a couple of hours!!

Enjoy!!! ;)

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Im not saying people who spar or fight have to looke xactly like the form itself but they shou,ld at least be using the techniques manifested in the forms rather than wild punching and going ape**** because you have too much adrenaline and lack of trianing/sparring to figuare out what to do.

Scott, whats the link to your yahoo profile?

[Scott R. Brown]

Ok!!! Sorry it didnt get it up right away, but the file was uploading and i had to go to work!! I only get dial-up!!

Here is the link: I think you dont need a Yahoo ID to access it! I'm not sure:

Hsing-I Fixed (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/iamscott_2001)

[Ford Prefect]

Stranger,

Delucia, a 5 animals guy, was in #2 I believe. There was a Wing Chun guy in there and Pa Kua guy as well, but the Pa Kua guy really didn't look like he knew anything. I think he even mispelled Pa Kua. Haha! There was a big wing chun in one of the early Japan Vale Tudo's that fought Rickson Gracie. There were others, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Scott,

Good job with the clip. A question: Do you guys train like that? In the form, he left his punches dangling out there after he threw them instead of moving to retract them right away. I know that this can just be training, but that seems like it might ingrain some bad habits.

Rockwood,

I wasn't talking about the amateur boxer you'd see in the olympics. I'm talking about going to your local gym and watching random guys fight. The dance around a little a bit and then get into exchanges similar to those seen in this video. You'll see what I mean when you get access to it.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Ford Prefect,

I don't know if your question was addressed to me or to anyone in general, but i don't train in Hsing-I. I just happened to have the software to edit the clip and i wanted one with only the Hsing-I. I figured if I wanted one with out the sparring others would too, so that is why i made it available. I am happy to see was correct! :)

[Joseph_alb]

Hey Ford,

Are you familiar to xingyi?

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Stranger,

Delucia, a 5 animals guy, was in #2 I believe. There was a Wing Chun guy in there and Pa Kua guy as well, but the Pa Kua guy really didn't look like he knew anything. I think he even mispelled Pa Kua. Haha! There was a big wing chun in one of the early Japan Vale Tudo's that fought Rickson Gracie. There were others, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Scott,

Good job with the clip. A question: Do you guys train like that? In the form, he left his punches dangling out there after he threw them instead of moving to retract them right away. I know that this can just be training, but that seems like it might ingrain some bad habits.

Rockwood,

I wasn't talking about the amateur boxer you'd see in the olympics. I'm talking about going to your local gym and watching random guys fight. The dance around a little a bit and then get into exchanges similar to those seen in this video. You'll see what I mean when you get access to it.


no they throw the same punches they do in training; The jab, cross, hook, and uppercut. If they start swinging wildly and turning their whole body with a punch like untrained people do they will either egt their as kicked by the more experienced guy or a good boxing coach wills top them and correct it. By the way other people agree with my assumptions. For example on this thread:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24963
the moderator wrote:

So, let me see if I get this right:
Kung fu actually works IF the other guy doesn't know how to fight AND you get in a wild haymaker.

Cool...
And on this thread:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24850&page=4
the same guy wrote:

As usual, if you were to put gi's on them, you would say they were doinh "karate", put shorts on them and they would be "kick boxing", etc, etc...

Xing-i, like taiji and bagua, is a very distinct system, with distinct moves, and while you see the distinctivness in the forms, you don't see it in sparring or fighting.
hes also been in macao and claims to have seen many kung fu masters fight and they all look the same.

[Ford Prefect]

Thanks, ROT... I boxed for years and with a national amateur champion. I wasn't so bad myself either. I have a pretty good grip of what you see in boxing gyms. Most guys showing poor form will indeed get handled by their opponent or their coach, but nearly everybody does it when they start sparring first and plenty of guys never progress past that stage. Only at mid-level and upper-level amateur bouts do you start seeing a lot more crisp technique and sticking and moving, and see them entirely depart from the instict to stand there and trade shots.

Coming from that live background I've always been very skeptical of what a style looks like in that environment. I've seen a fair amount of guys use kung fu well in that environment. One of the guys I trained MMA with had trained with a fella named Cartmell for years and used Xing Yi and Ba Gua as his main styles on the feet. It's not about the style, it's the training and the man.

Joseph,

Only on a conceptual level. I trained Ba Gua for a bit and ran into Xing Yi guys in training (they were cross-training in Ba Gua) and at seminars. I was never a student of the style although I've seen a little bit of it from those sources.

[BAI HE]

Well, if we're talking about that clip, there's a lot to be said.

First off, we don't know where he's at in the art. We don't know his experience lever, nor the rules. I some some good things and I saw some bad.

First off, he had a nice agressive attitude (all white guy). I understand why he was plugging away at the head, it's harder to hurt a well conditioned fighter to the body with a protector on. Furthermore, if it was bare-knuckle, as the art was intended? A few of those straights would have ended it. He also was strong on his feet and reveresed a takedown attempt.

The stuff I didn't like? Karate kicks, lack of lowline kicks and sweeps to set up throws and controls. Not a lot of angles or good counter-punching.
Xingyi training will teach you how to absorb or avoid a lot of your opponents power.

The fighting looked pretty basic. The thing that really stood out in my mind was a lack of whole body strategy. It wasn't All weapons. It was punch-kick, re-set or bulling into the opponent rather than taking angles and attacking in the Xingi strategy. Ford has a point about the footwork.

I understand the gloves make it really hard to execute as well.
If you don't believe me? One of Mr. Cartmell's students who has full contact experience stated as much.

So you can throw Xingyi "tearing" and Quinna out the window.


As far as the linking form, I think the guy was just going for connection. No fa, just smooth body movement. Depends what he was working on.

I don't know much about the clip, or the folks in it and I'm not really going to try and judge it too harshly. There's been some interesting concerns and good points. I would hope you don't judge the art by one clip.

BTW - R-O-T? Good to see you Enforcer. :rolleyes:

[BAI HE]

It's not about the style, it's the training and the man.

One of the sanest and most truthful statements about Martial Arts or
any endeavor period.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Thanks, ROT... I boxed for years and with a national amateur champion. I wasn't so bad myself either. I have a pretty good grip of what you see in boxing gyms. Most guys showing poor form will indeed get handled by their opponent or their coach, but nearly everybody does it when they start sparring first and plenty of guys never progress past that stage. Only at mid-level and upper-level amateur bouts do you start seeing a lot more crisp technique and sticking and moving, and see them entirely depart from the instict to stand there and trade shots.

Coming from that live background I've always been very skeptical of what a style looks like in that environment. I've seen a fair amount of guys use kung fu well in that environment. One of the guys I trained MMA with had trained with a fella named Cartmell for years and used Xing Yi and Ba Gua as his main styles on the feet. It's not about the style, it's the training and the man.

Joseph,

Only on a conceptual level. I trained Ba Gua for a bit and ran into Xing Yi guys in training (they were cross-training in Ba Gua) and at seminars. I was never a student of the style although I've seen a little bit of it from those sources.


but the question is did he use bagua and xingyi footwork, strategy, defense/offense, etc. or was he just fighting like an untrained guy or relied on kickboxing/boxing that he learned since than? I saw a clip on shenwu of Maynard sparring some guy with only fists and gloves and it looked like basic boxing, I only see a jab/cross/hook I didnt see any xingyi punches.


First off, he had a nice agressive attitude (all white guy). I understand why he was plugging away at the head, it's harder to hurt a well conditioned fighter to the body with a protector on. Furthermore, if it was bare-knuckle, as the art was intended? A few of those straights would have ended it.

That's not necessairly true Its hard to knock someone out with bare knuckle or gloves and especially with a vertical beng quan fist almost impossible I would think. Boxers have the best ability to knock people out since they train for it yet it takes sometimes 10 rounds for it to happen. And with the gloves no offense or defense gets taken away cause you can use any offensive or defensive move from the style as long as it is a close fisted strike and even a open palm parry/block. I even have a boxing coach that showed me forearm blocks, upward karate style bocks, etc. anything is possible with gloves on imo.



So you can throw Xingyi "tearing" and Quinna out the window.

There was a thread on shenwu where alot if not most people concluded that qin na/jjj/joint locks only work against half resisting or not fully resisting opponents.

[Brad]

That's not necessairly true Its hard to knock someone out with bare knuckle or gloves and especially with a vertical beng quan fist almost impossible I would think.
Actually, blacktaoist (who used to post on here) had a vid of himself taking someone down pretty quickly using nothing but beng quan.

[BAI HE]

R-O-T,
Let see whtat you can do better.
Everyone from Ford to Rockwood has
analyzed the clip with a fair hand.

What do you have? OOoooooo, I small
the usual anonymous ***gotry...''''

Put up or shut up Enforcer, be a man.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Actually, blacktaoist (who used to post on here) had a vid of himself taking someone down pretty quickly using nothing but beng quan.
none of his clips are very impressive, and it didint look like a beng quan but a forward charing attack with fists flying, a beng quan as done in those forms clips is totally different as the other hand has a specific posision relative to the body/head and there is a step into it. Also his san shou clips were decent but the clips with mma gloves were horrible, it seems he fights better with bigger gloves on.

[Brad]

Actually, xingyi fists can have numerous variations depending on the situation. Any reasonably intellegent adult is going to know to adapt. Why keep the hand in a certain spot if there's no reason to? Doesn't matter if it's ugly, as long as it gets the job done :) If you want to live in kungfu fantasy land, that's fine with me though, one less guy out there to worry about ;)

Good thing I still have room on my ignore list for another wannabe :p This thing's getting filled up pretty fast though.

[cerebus]

Well, though I don't really like, or usually agree with the troll known as "Reign-Of-Terror" (who used to be known as "Enforcer" 'til he was banned), I do agree that Hsing-I should (even in sparring) LOOK like Hsing-I. The Hsing-I techniques were designed to work with the Hsing-I "Jings". Same with Bagua (at least as I learned it). When I fight a full contact match with Hsing-I or Bagua, I actually use the postures, footwork and techniques that I practice in my forms. And it works very well. I wasn't impressed with the "skill" or lack thereof in the sparring clips under discussion either, but I don't know the skill level of those sparring. They could very well be beginners.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

Actually, xingyi fists can have numerous variations depending on the situation. Any reasonably intellegent adult is going to know to adapt. Why keep the hand in a certain spot if there's no reason to? Doesn't matter if it's ugly, as long as it gets the job done :) If you want to live in kungfu fantasy land, that's fine with me though, one less guy out there to worry about ;)

Good thing I still have room on my ignore list for another wannabe :p This thing's getting filled up pretty fast though.

so you actually think those guys would last a minute in an amatuer boxing or muay thai fight?

[cerebus]

They might. They are obviously tough and agressive. I doubt they'd win though.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

why are there never any clips of masters fighting or sparring? Why are they always newbies or "thats not the real style"...

[cerebus]

Couldn't ell ya'. Maybe the real masters got all their fighting out of their systems when they were "newbies". I know the reason the association I'm a member of doesn't post their matches is simply that these are "closed door" matches and conducted solely for training and self development, not public entertainment. I'm no master, but I'd gladly post some clips if I could find anyone who wanted to spar full-contact (who isn't a looney, a spaz or an azz) in the S.F. Bay area (hel!, even light contact sparring, if they want).

[Joseph_alb]

Enforcer,

I know exactly what the problem is.

Instead of asking for clips of masters fighting, theorizing over forums about the inefficiency of IMAs, and sharing ignorant opinions backed up by uninformed hunches, you should be doing all this in real life, not in front of a desktop monitor.
Stay away from the internet and go ask those questions to the faces of the same people you bash here. I promise you your questions and doubts will evaporate faster than an Emptyflower ban.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

lol I aint the only one asking these questions or having these doubts, most of the martiala rt world agrees with my hunches. There is still no proof of internal power or any of that stuff.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

actually Im not denying the chinese were always good at weapon combat and hence it was their primary goal in fgihting and what they primary focused on, its just that there is no proof they were ever good at bare handed combat.

[BAI HE]

R-O-T, there isn't a shred of truth in your last post.
You know it and I know it.

Seriously, go to a San Shou school or "fighting" oriented
school and discuss you theories. Trying to cull
information from the internet is not your best bet.
But you're a p-u-s-s-y right?

Also, start posting under your real handle, which is "Enforcer".
You probably needed a new handle when as "Enforcer" you are known as the
guy who knows nothing about martial arts and seems pre-occupied with prison-rape. Some Enforcer.

All you've ever been interested in is annoying people. I don't really know why,
isn't it as we discussed before, "People just don't like you and tend to pick on you." I wonder why? :confused:

[Reign-Of-Terror]

bai he, why are you so angry? I aint gonna get into an argueing match with you cause I dont wanna se you cry. It will pain my heart.

[cerebus]

"It will pain my heart."

Heh, heh. Not as much as it would pain your ribs, head, face, etc. to go to the Bagua school Bai He trains in and try proving to them that they can't fight. I love when some troll like enforcer here tries talking smack to someone they know nothing about on a subject they know nothing about.

I'm a Chinese internal arts practitioner. Guess that means I can't fight, right? If you can manage to get to Oakland, CA at any point, contact me and we can get together and spar. You can show me which parts of Hsing-I don't work. ;)

[Reign-Of-Terror]

that would be great, I actually dont live far from Oakland now. We can spar and you can choose any equipment to wear.

[BAI HE]

bai he, why are you so angry? I aint gonna get into an argueing match with you cause I dont wanna se you cry. It will pain my heart.

Who said I'm angry? I'm just out here telling the truth about you.
I called you out before and I know it gets nowhere Enforcer.
You don't want to learn anything except new ways to annoy people.
The thing is, you're just a pain in the ass. You're not funny, you're not smar5t, you're not skilled and you don't train. You just kind of read stuff. You are a CROWN (in Chinese).

Furthermore, the things you find entertaining like pictures of 5 year olds smoking cigarettes, gang violence and prison rape turn my stomach. Couple that with your armchair Anonymous Martial Artist opinions and you're really unappealing to deal with or talk to at all. Unfortunately you piffle can be found on every MA forum from Jarek's to Shenwu and you are just as reviled in those places as well.
You are like Herpes, nobody wants you.
I also understand from my old PM's that people don't like you in person either.
You probably don't even like you.

Cry? Ahahahahahhahahah. Come for a visit sometime, I'll give you a pain
in the heart. I'm not sure you'll cry though. You have to be awake for that.But I digress, that offer was made a long time ago and declined.

[cerebus]

R-O-T, what days are you available? Any preferences for sparring gear/ rules? Let me know, we can work something out.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

I dont know when I will be in the bay area. I live in chico, ca right now.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

bai he this guy might take you up on your challenge:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25029

[BAI HE]

I really see that happening... :rolleyes:

Next he'll say in he's moving to Anchorage. Furthermore if he had all these questions and was honestly looking for answers, Cali would be the place.
There are is an unusually high concentration of good IMA teachers, students and willing combatants.

Don't hold your breath Troy. :)

[cerebus]

I'm usually available on Mondays from 10 am til 5 pm, Wednesdays from 4 pm til 8 pm and Thursdays from 10 am til 5 pm. Any other days/ times I might have to re-arrange the schedule a bit. Let me know when you think you'll be in the area. Later.

[BAI HE]

ROT,
I don't understand what you were getting at. I think you
understand what Troy (Cerebrus) was getting at.

Futhrermore, the guy in that clip was funny, but he got the KO. I don't like the goofy ass stances, but he got the job done. Outside of this clip? I've never seen a fighting stance that goofy and dramatic in my entire life in martial arts.
Am I supposed to apologize for that?
Win, lose or draw, the goal of martial arts is to endure. Who got knocked out? I don't care if the guy is CMA, JMA, IMA NAACP, NRA, CIA, FBI or OSHA.
He did what he was trained to do.

Anyway,
If you are curious about fighting, fight. Troy is a good guy and I doubt he would
really **** you up if you're nice. He can show you some stuff.
If you think 5 year old children smoking cigarettes is funny, you must have a sense of humor. Right?

[Reign-Of-Terror]

I still stand that there is no video proof that cma works like mma does. The only video proof is of cma resorting to kickboxing against poor opponents or people of their own style. If they face a good boxer/mt/mma and arent trained in sanda they will lose.

[cerebus]

Well if you get hold of me and bring your sparring gear you can see otherwise for yourself. I will also be glad to explain exactly how and why certain things work.

[Reign-Of-Terror]

IF a systems lables itself or its practioners lable it as a "fighting system" then the average practioner MUST BE ABLE TO FIGHT.

IF a system is an "art form" or "form of exercise", then it sucks and should get shot and ****ed on. There are some individuals that are talented enough that they could almost make anything work, but if the average person seeks self defense than I think there are better options. To quote Bat Ronin from bullshido:

In the world we live in nowadays, with digital camers that can make mpegs going for 100 bucks, and the internet available to almost everyone, there is no excuse to "put up or shut up".

[cerebus]

So does that mean that you won't be finding out for yourself?

[Reign-Of-Terror]

if Im in the bay area Ill let you know.

[cerebus]

Heh, heh. I take it I shouldn't hold my breath waiting... ;)

[Joseph_alb]

If its not on video available on the internet, then it doesnt exist?

Listen to yourself man, your hilarious. Your in california? Drop by shenwu, talk your smack in the open mat saturdays. Make sure someone has a camera handy.

[Ford Prefect]

ROT,

Shenwu... That's what I was trying to think of when I said that "Cartmell fella". Good call. Yes, he used Xing Yi/Ba Gua punches since what I know of Xing Yi punches are basically boxing with slightly different mechanics. I don't believe in all the hub-bub about "internal" power either. From my experience with boxing and ba gua, the only difference was that ba gua also used a vertical whipping of the spine to generate power as well as the hips. As for everything else, it was pretty similar. We are all human beings after all. There are only so many ways to move and especially hit with our fists.

As for the footwork, he used what was necessary at the moment. I even used some modified Ba Gua footwork when I was in the clinch and to close the distance to clinch. I think there is a lot of cool stuff that MMA'ers could pick up from traditional arts, and I think there is a lot of insight into their arts that traditional guys could pick up if they trained in the same fashion MMA'ers do. I feel lucky for having been able to train both with great instructors.

[Ray Pina]

ROT .... the gentleman said he'd compare with you. It is at this point you stop typing and talking smack and prepare yourself for a match.

[PHILBERT]

Its been a long weekend, and honestly I just can't remember. But didn't I ban Enforcer once already? I remember banning that other fellow like a dozen times, but the trolls are starting to form one conscious memory for me and I can't remember when one banned troll ends and another banned one begins.

Anyway, RoT, stop trolling. The dead horse's kids are all grown up and dead. Stop beating it. I might not post much anymore cause school is taking up all my time (even in the summer), but I am still here.

[hung-le]

I still stand that there is no video proof that cma works like mma does. The only video proof is of cma resorting to kickboxing against poor opponents or people of their own style. If they face a good boxer/mt/mma and arent trained in sanda they will lose.

ooooh GOD!!!!!

It's the "got to have video proof" guy again? You were on here before but by another name....


If I've got the same guy?????

Which you sound like him..
Master...something or.......something master

I rememeber You kept pasting articles from bullshido........ talking ****

[cerebus]

Well, I've even offered to give him "proof" AND let him videotape it, unfortunately I did the same thing two other times (in all seriousness and without any bad feeling or bad intentions) when he was posting as "enforcer". His response was the same "Yeah, I live near Oakland. I'll let you know when I'm in the area...." Good thing I wasn't holding my breath waiting back then either... :p

[ReignOfTerror]

I still havent seen application from forms like single whips or double handed strikes sued in any fight and if it happened it isnt recorded on video. If you say tai chi and neija teaches you other good thigns like power generation and footwork but the forms lack the ability to be utilized in a fight and are just for show than why even practise those forms, why not concentrate on the few good thngs tai chi and the like do good and cross train in boxing and use those techniques in a fight instead of relying on haymakers and brawling?

[cerebus]

And you have been GIVEN the chance (repeatedly now) to see that which you are complaining of never having seen. Unfortunately you've demonstrated that you'd rather gripe and complain about it instead.... :rolleyes:

[ReignOfTerror]

cerebrus can you make it to a gym in santa roza? I know some people whod like to test you.

[cerebus]

I don't have a car. If you know anyone who wants to get together, put 'em in touch with me. Funny how you try to start crap by griping about how YOU haven't seen this and YOU haven't seen that, but when I offer to spar with you, you run and find someone else to take your place. :D It's fine though. As long as your friends aren't loons and seriously want to get together and spar, send 'em my way...