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Watchman
10-19-2001, 03:30 AM
I must say that Dr. Bannon's article in your Nov/Dec issue sure made me sit up and take notice.

His story was incredible, to say the least, and I hope to see more material of a LEO/combative nature in your magazine in the future.

Keep up the good work! :D

Stranger
10-19-2001, 04:03 AM
Watchman is correct.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

Felipe Bido
10-19-2001, 04:58 AM
What Stranger said :D

-------------------------
"To be great is to be misunderstood"- Emerson

GeneChing
10-21-2001, 07:00 PM
It was somewhat experimental for us, but an intriguing story, yes?
And yes, I am taking the magazine into more combative stuff - did you see our Jan/Feb 2001 issue - the Police special?

http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/kunmag20jani.html

It was very popular and there's more of that on the way - stay tuned.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com (http://www.KUNGFUmagazine.com)

diego
10-21-2001, 07:27 PM
how that police special was Good
i liked that feature with the sergeant/general??

"I finish the job with a tiger claw into the throat. Remember guys'INSERT CORNY WHITEBOY VOICE' use extreme violence against your opponents always, that will discourage them from hurting other people" kungfu site technique sec.VS?."...

dwid
11-18-2001, 07:49 PM
Am I the only one who thinks this article stinks of BS. First off, the guy's name is a character from Johnny Quest. Second, the scenario of busting the kiddie porn guys comes off like a bad action movie. Also, his memory of the techniques he used to take out the bad guys is a bit too precise. How does he remember all the attacks he made in the heat of the moment. Anyway, maybe it's true and the guy is just a lousy writer. I would think the story would have been national news or something, though. Anybody else read the article and have thoughts on this?

_________________________________________
The way of the samurai is in desperateness. Ten men or more cannot kill such a man. Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. - Hagakure

rogue
11-18-2001, 08:40 PM
Race is just his nickname. Memory is a funny thing, sometimes you remember exactly what you did, sometimes you may not remember what you did but you do remember every detail of some unimportant things. Other times what you do remember may not be what you actually did, but what you intended to do, thought you did or what someone told you did.

Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society.

The only tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, “To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

Budokan
11-18-2001, 10:24 PM
But ya know what? Race Bannon from the old Jonny Quest cartoons was pretty cool...

K. Mark Hoover

Phrost
02-01-2006, 01:13 PM
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31108

Looks like you got taken in, Gene.


David Race Bannon, who claims to have worked for Interpol as a hit man, was arrested for criminal impersonation - after for years possibly serving as an expert witness in courts and on news channels

Tuesday, January 31, 2006
by Robert Duncan

Call him the spy who never came in from the cold - or better yet, the spy who never was.

David Race Bannon, 42, of Charlotte, North Carolina, claims to have worked for Interpol as a hit man, was arrested Friday, Jan. 27, in Boulder, Colo. for criminal impersonation. Various websites (including a cached version of his website) claim that Bannon has served as an expert witness in U.S. federal appellate court, and appeared on the Discovery Channel, Fox News Channel, A&E, The History Channel, TechTV and National Public Radio.

Jefferson County district attorney spokesman Carl Blesch said in a statement that Bannon didn't resist his arrest Friday at a Boulder restaurant. According to the Rocky Mountain News, Bannon was in Colorado "meeting with a group that was sponsoring his planned appearance today in Boulder." That same article said CBI agents described Bannon as "'dumbfounded' when he was taken into custody." Bannon is scheduled for his first district court appearance on Feb. 2. Bond was set at $5,000. Bannon is the author of "Race Against Evil -- The Secret Missions of the Interpol Agent Who Tracked the World's Most Sinister Criminals.''

A press statement for Bannon's "Race Against Evil" book, claims that "at age 18, the American youth is recruited by Interpol after he is caught in a deadly riot in South Korea. Over the next 15 years, Bannon is trained to work in the darkest regions of humanity, to deny societal inhibitors against killing and embrace the agency's role as deliverer of grim justice to evildoers beyond the reach of the law. His missions take him from investigating the bombing of KAL 858 and infiltrating prisons in Korea to the disappearance of London's most notorious child pornographer and searching out terrorists and criminals in the United States."

It appears even Bannon's name is in question.

"The former David Wayne Dilley changed his name to Bannon in Spokane, Washington, in 1990, choosing the name because of the character Race Bannon in the classic Hanna-Barbera adventure cartoon 'Jonny Quest,'" according to the Mainichi Daily News. Despite the similarity between Bannon's name and that of a cartoon character from Johnny Quest - specifically the trusty friend of Dr. Quest is called Race Bannon - his book has received support from some fringe groups. "I wish more people would bring this tragic occurance to light. As a mother and a youth leader, I had no idea how much of this was going on in the world. I knew about child abduction and child abuse and have tryed educating parents and teens about safety," reads one reviewer, while another at the same website wrote "This is a fascinating, hair-raising, sometimes hilarious and sometimes tragic account of the brave men and women who went behind the lines in child sex slavery rings." Both those reviewers were anonymous.

But as far back as 2004 Interpol has been saying that Bannon's history is fiction.

Working in collaboration with the U.S. National Central Bureau of Interpol, the Interpol General Secretariat (Lyon, France), and other Interpol member countries, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation said Bannon's credentials are bogus and his efforts to profit from the deception to be illegal. He is charged with criminal impersonation, computer crime and attempted theft. "Interpol's General Secretariat in Lyon has no record of David Race Bannon having been employed and no knowledge of individuals mentioned in Mr. Bannon's book. Interpol exists to facilitate the exchange of information between the world's law enforcement agencies and to provide analysis of criminal data and other services. Accordingly, the claims in Mr. Bannon's book can only be seen as deceptive and irresponsible fantasy,'' the Interpol General Secretariat said in a 2004 statement.

Using his alleged background as an Interpol agent and expert in human trafficking, Bannon is compensated for speaking engagements and subject-matter training courses. The Colorado Department of Public Safety confirmed that Bannon had solicited fees in excess of $3,000 for a two-day training course on human trafficking. It is reported that the affidavit also calls into question Bannon's doctorate from a Korean university.

As well as being an alternative radio personality, one website claims that Bannon holds a "Doctorate degree in Asian History form Seoul National University, a Master’s degree in Computer Science, and he is fluent in Korean and Japanese. He has published several books on political and military history of the region, as well as a martial arts encyclopedia and computer text books. Bannon has appeared on the Discovery Channel, A & E, and The History Channel. He has also spoken on International security at world conferences from Berlin to Tokyo to Washington."

There has been no explanation regarding how Bannon could have fooled people, including possibly members of Interpol - if they were indeed members of the organization. In April 2003 the Kungfu magazine interviewed Bannon along with somebody identified as Interpol Commissioner Jacques Defferre, and who was said at that time to be Bannon's retired superior at Interpol. That interview was said to have been granted so the two ex-spies could explain "their motives for working in Archangel (the operation Bannon names in his book). Sitting in a coffee shop in Charlotte, NC, the two plainly described how the underground kiddie porn industry is used to fund terrorist cells, and of the vast international networks of kidnappers and pornographers who continue to earn 'billions of dollars' working above the law."

Other websites, including an Amazon reviewer who says he is an former intelligence officer and goes by the name of Geoffrey Ries claims, that Jacques Defferre was a French-born spy, to whom Interpol gave the code name Archie, "who died this year (2003) at age 67 in Marseilles, France. Protean in his exploits, Defferre served as a commissioner in Interpol. During the Vietnam War, Jacques Defferre set up Interpol's spy operations in Asia and coordinated the exchange of intelligence between France and South Korea."

Here's the original article posted on KFM:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=499

At this point we're not sure how much credit if any can be given to Bullshido's own Samuel Browning for his detailed and extensive investigational work, but he's one of the people who got the ball rolling on taking down this huckster.

GeneChing
02-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Looks like you got taken in, Gene.
It wasn't the first time. Probably won't be the last. :rolleyes:

For the record, Bannon precedes me here by several years. By the time I came on board, Bannon had already worked his way quite deep into our publications. And also for the record, Samuel Browning had my full cooperation in his investigation, as did other investigators who had their suspicions.


In April 2003 the Kungfu magazine interviewed Bannon along with somebody identified as Interpol Commissioner Jacques Defferre, and who was said at that time to be Bannon's retired superior at Interpol. We published the article online only. It was submitted by a freelancer. The original article was published in our Nov/Dec 2001 issue. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=142) For validity's sake, we've added a disclaimer to the ezine article that links to this thread. Thus ends the David Bannon story. What a bizarre detour that was for us.

Phrost
02-01-2006, 03:11 PM
It wasn't the first time. Probably won't be the last. :rolleyes:

For the record, Bannon precedes me here by several years. By the time I came on board, Bannon had already worked his way quite deep into our publications. And also for the record, Samuel Browning had my full cooperation in his investigation, as did other investigators who had their suspicions.

We published the article online only. It was submitted by a freelancer. The original article was published in our Nov/Dec 2001 issue. (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=142) For validity's sake, we've added a disclaimer to the ezine article that links to this thread. Thus ends the David Bannon story. What a bizarre detour that was for us.

Yeah, please don't take it as any kind of dig at you or KFM. If I remember correctly, Jason Putnam is suspected of being complicit with the deception.

I wonder if this would be cause for a lawsuit, depending on how the case pans out.

Still, more than anything this shows that a lot of people look on the Martial Arts community as an "easy mark" for fraud. Personally, I imagine that this is due in large part to the willing suspension of disbelief many in the MA community have for outlandish claims.

Like I said before, I'm not sure to what extent we managed to influence this outcome, but it does show the need for Martial Artists to be more skeptical of people making claims about their involvement in MA.

GeneChing
02-01-2006, 03:43 PM
It's unfortunate, that's for sure. We're debating whether we should print a retraction in the print magazine, but the original article was half a decade ago, so the only people that might remember would be our online readership. I'm leaning towards printing it personally. Hopefully, our readership will understand that such errors happen and at least, we're honest enough to admit when we've made an error.

Frauds like this happen to major news agencies. I don't think that martial artists are particularly easy prey. That such a fraud should be perpetrated on little old us is just plain unfortunate.

Phrost
02-01-2006, 04:02 PM
It's unfortunate, that's for sure. We're debating whether we should print a retraction in the print magazine, but the original article was half a decade ago, so the only people that might remember would be our online readership. I'm leaning towards printing it personally. Hopefully, our readership will understand that such errors happen and at least, we're honest enough to admit when we've made an error.

Frauds like this happen to major news agencies. I don't think that martial artists are particularly easy prey. That such a fraud should be perpetrated on little old us is just plain unfortunate.

I don't think there will be much fallout from this on your side. If I were you I'd just update the online version of the article (comes up #1 on a google search for David Bannon I believe) and leave it at that.

If you need any more information I can put you in contact with Sam Browning who's done a ridiculous amount of research on this. He's even sent someone to a Paris graveyard to look for the headstone mentioned in the story.

"Little old us"... you guys are the best KF magazine out there!

GeneChing
02-01-2006, 04:10 PM
We've already added the disclaimer to that article and linked it to this very thread.

I have Samuel Browning's email somewhere I'm sure, from when he contacted me about his investigation. We discussed the possibility of him writing up something exclusive for our e-zine when his investigation reached a conclusion. That was a long time ago, and we've not kept in touch. Nevertheless, I salute his persistance on this.

It really is a shame. David did some decent work for us in the early years. There are even a few of his China history articles (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/TOC/index.php#B) still in our online archive. I wonder if we can sue him for damages...

Phrost
02-02-2006, 09:19 AM
We've already added the disclaimer to that article and linked it to this very thread.

I have Samuel Browning's email somewhere I'm sure, from when he contacted me about his investigation. We discussed the possibility of him writing up something exclusive for our e-zine when his investigation reached a conclusion. That was a long time ago, and we've not kept in touch. Nevertheless, I salute his persistance on this.

It really is a shame. David did some decent work for us in the early years. There are even a few of his China history articles (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/TOC/index.php#B) still in our online archive. I wonder if we can sue him for damages...

That'd all depend on if there would be any real chance of collecting or if the suit makes enough of a statement to the public (PR-wise) to justify the expense on your end.

I just noticed you guys accept article submisisons. I might put together an article for you guys on the topic of consumer protection in the Martial Arts if you'd like.

GeneChing
02-02-2006, 11:34 AM
Yeah, I know, I was being sarcastic about sueing him. It's probably not worth pursuing. You know, I only met Bannon once. I talked to him on the phone a couple of times, but I was always skeptical of him. There was always something off about him, even before the whole Interpol thing cmae to light. In fact, part of my motivation about publishing the e-zine article was to continue the debate about his authenticity. Seems to have worked.

The bulk of all articles you see in the martial arts world are freelance submission. Here is our submission guidelines (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/about/guidelines.php), for your reference. As for a martial caveat emptor, to be honest, the subject doesn't grab me that much at first glance. But feel free to email me if you have some unique insight on it that you think would be of interest - gene@kungfumagazine.com.

Note that I'm moving this thread to our media forum. I think it'll be more prominent there.

Mika
02-02-2006, 01:50 PM
I remember the pretty wild and vivid stories by Bannon when they came out. He was called out immediately by some of the readers of the Magazine. I guess it's their time to shine now. "I told you so!". :D

I recall the exchange at the "Letters to the Editor" being very aggressive at the time. For a good reason, we all know now. I am sure Gene found himself in the eye of the storm then, too. :p

Well, the suspicions have materialized. No more speculation, that's good. My hat's off to the peeps behind this investigation.

GeneChing
02-02-2006, 03:26 PM
The letters, yes, there were many. There was even another thread here about it. Was that on the main forum? It was a while ago. But to be honest, I didn't feel like the eye of the storm then, nor do I now. If anything, I feel rather vindicated now. It wasn't my call. In fact, I had my doubts and feel like I'm in the 'I told you so' position here at the office.

I wasn't the editor when Bannon's interpol story went to press.

Phrost
02-02-2006, 03:28 PM
The letters, yes, there were many. There was even another thread here about it. Was that on the main forum? It was a while ago. But to be honest, I didn't feel like the eye of the storm then, nor do I now. If anything, I feel rather vindicated now.

I wasn't the editor when that story went to press.

This is from Sam B, posted on the thread linked in the original post:

I just got a copy of the arrest warrant. The CBI investigator I talked to indicated that she had read material on Bullshido and actually knew my name. :) However there was no Bullshido material in the 8 page arrest warrant. Article by next Tuesday..

Mika
02-03-2006, 12:00 AM
Gene, I didn't mean to imply anything other than that it must have been a difficult situation for you because you were responsible to all corners: readers, writers, the magazine and its staff, and yourself. That's what I meant by "the eye of the storm". Must have been a little confusing and frustrating at times (not just this Bannon case, I am sure there are times when you would like to either disappear in to the mountains or alternatively kick everyone's azz for 5 minutes :D).

I can definitely feel your pain. :p

But I am happy for you that is history now.

GeneChing
02-03-2006, 11:23 AM
That semi-defensive tone you might be picking up on in my posts about this is really me gloating but trying not to gloat. Actually I couldn't be more pleased that you gentleman have brought this to my attention, so I can, in turn, bring it to the attention of my collegues. I find myself saying "I told you so" a lot - it's a bad habit and doesn't bode well formy popularity at the office. Of course, we're a team here, a tight-knit team, so I don't want to come off as not being a team player or anything - while that might sound defensive, have no fear about what implying anything towards me. Beleive me, this job has toughened my hide.

I'm hoping you guys keep me abreast of this situation here, and I'm looking forward to Samuel Browning's report. We had discussed him doing something for our e-zine when it was over, but I'm assuming from the reply posted above it'll go to Bullshido. He's your 'operative' more than ours, so that's fine with me.

Thanks for your continued support of the magazine.

Phrost
02-03-2006, 11:38 AM
That semi-defensive tone you might be picking up on in my posts about this is really me gloating but trying not to gloat. Actually I couldn't be more pleased that you gentleman have brought this to my attention, so I can, in turn, bring it to the attention of my collegues. I find myself saying "I told you so" a lot - it's a bad habit and doesn't bode well formy popularity at the office. Of course, we're a team here, a tight-knit team, so I don't want to come off as not being a team player or anything - while that might sound defensive, have no fear about what implying anything towards me. Beleive me, this job has toughened my hide.

I'm hoping you guys keep me abreast of this situation here, and I'm looking forward to Samuel Browning's report. We had discussed him doing something for our e-zine when it was over, but I'm assuming from the reply posted above it'll go to Bullshido. He's your 'operative' more than ours, so that's fine with me.

Thanks for your continued support of the magazine.

I can't speak for Sam, but as far as Bullshido goes I'd have no problem with that article being essentially "cross-posted" or shared between the sites. The more the information spreads, the more it helps our cause in protecting consumers from fraud.

GeneChing
02-03-2006, 05:30 PM
I was more refering to an actual article, something we'd publish on the e-zine like the one from Jason Putnam, whoever he might be. All our e-zine article submissions are exclusive. If Sam posts it on the Bullshido thread, it'll essentially be here since we're linked at the begining. Just give us a shout out here when it gets posted. I'd love to check it out.

CFT
02-06-2006, 07:50 AM
I always had the suspicion that Jason Putnam/Putman was a pseudonym for David Bannon, simply because he was confused by his own name.

Geocities homepages, fake co-authors, id fraud, non-existant publications ...

GeneChing
02-07-2006, 10:17 AM
More grist for the mill... (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7344)

GeneChing
02-23-2006, 10:35 AM
You'll seldom see me post links to other forums, but this is an exceptional case. Here's Samuel's report on Bannon on Bullshido. (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30325)

GeneChing
04-25-2006, 12:01 PM
Bannon pleaded guilty.

Samuel Browning was kind enough to share this link (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4647160,00.html) about the results of the case.

GeneChing
04-28-2006, 02:38 PM
Here's an exclusive article on the Bannon case by Samuel Browning -
Spotting False Martial Arts Claims: Lessons from the David Bannon Case (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=656).

Thanks again, Samuel!

DoGcHoW108
04-29-2006, 09:58 PM
Coming from Oklahoma's Martial Arts scene, i think this guy getting busted is AWESOME.

Now if they could just come mop up some of the fake mother****ers in OK, that would be awesome.

Good job to bullshido, despite them being a bunch of butt-munchers.

SifuAbel
04-30-2006, 04:00 PM
Bullshido, as usual, did nothing. It was only Sam Browning that made any kind of effort.

And just what effect Sam's "Investigation" had on the arrest is unknown.(maybe I missed it, feel free to point it out) If none, then its just stabbing the dead bull. No biggy.

GeneChing
05-01-2006, 09:21 AM
I don't really spend much time on other forums (this one keeps me busy enough) so I can't really comment on Bullshido. But Samuel's assistence in helping us clear the air about the Bannon situation has been extremely helpful. Obviously, it's a very embarassing situation for us. We are seeking restitution from Bannon and Samuel was very gracious to provide us with the legal contacts to pursue action. I can't thank Samuel enough for his work here.

Samuel Browning
05-01-2006, 03:17 PM
Dear Rudy:

It was a team effort. We had approximately a dozen volunteers working on the Bannon project at one time or another. This would include people like Lazy Tiger, Kickcatcher, Wounded Ronin, Samarai Steve, Gringo Grande, and Asia.

Bannon was arrested because the Colorado Bureau of Investigation heeded an Interpol notice and then executed a "sting". Previously on Bullshido I've said that we did not provide the information that went into his arrest warrant.

We did play a role in forcing Bannon to pled out to criminal impersonation.

1) I provided a lot of information to Charlie Brennan of the Rocky Mountain News who then used some of my leads to uncover information that further damaged Bannon's case. This information was incorporated into two articles that were published in late February.

2) I, and my French Investigator were disclosed as witnesses to the defense which was also provided with a copy of my Bannon article as part of discovery. Did this cause them to cave? I can't say for sure but it meant that Bannon's attorney could not simply take this case to trial and blame everything on Interpol.

3) If it had not been for the Bullshido article and Mr. Brennan's articles Bannon would be able to control the information concerning what happened in court. This means that within a year or so, he would have been making up new stories about what happened in his court case in Colorado. Bullshido has helped put enough information into the public eye (including reprinting copies of Bannon's arrest warrant) that whenever Bannon reappears again, a simple name search will reveal the truth about this individual.

SifuAbel
05-01-2006, 07:17 PM
Great, now go find Osama.

I would reply to you on BLSDO, but I've been ghosted so no one sees my posts. :rolleyes:

SifuAbel
05-01-2006, 07:24 PM
Bullshido has helped put enough information into the public eye (including reprinting copies of Bannon's arrest warrant) that whenever Bannon reappears again, a simple name search will reveal the truth about this individual.


We'll see.

Samuel Browning
05-01-2006, 08:50 PM
We'll see.

When you generate your own investigations I'll take your complaints about mine seriously.

:D

SifuAbel
05-01-2006, 09:51 PM
Pft, So what amounts to the National Inquirer got one. Wow, throw a parade.

Sorry to poo on the fanfair . But you guys were no more than the picadores. You didn't kill the bull.


You are an actual lawyer? What a waste............

Samuel Browning
05-02-2006, 08:37 AM
We drew blood but yes we don't have arrest powers, unlike the CBI.

And Rudy, you are working on which investigations again?

And if my Bannon article is like the articles in the National Enquirer, I'm sure you will do us the favor of pointing out where my factual errors are. Can't specify any? Then you're being a blowhard and a windbag.

You can insult my product but until you actually generate such content over at your site you're just flinging poo, to use your own word.

SifuAbel
05-02-2006, 01:29 PM
ROFLMAO!! Besides this one moment. Bullshido has no "content". On the whole , its credibility is in the toilet. With a few exceptions, Its a bunch of lame brains having a back patting party. Your site is tainted with yellow Journalism, witchhunts, ignorance, and wallowing in teen juice. You really want to be this "investigative force in MA"? Drop those losers and make your own site.

You wouldn't even have had the luck to poke him with your stick at all if not for his arrest. Otherwise, it would be just more interblab. Just more stuff that won't be read by 11 out of 12 thousand members that have left in disgust.

But hey, as to your personal efforts. Not a bad job , really. Bravo. Good job. Pat on the back. Have a cigar. Savor it. :rolleyes:

I'm not going waste my time "investigating" anyone. What for?!?!? They just creep back in with a new angle, like roaches. Ninja, please. I'll leave the tabloid mucking around in the filth to you and yours.

And the "until you do it" logic won't wash now. The reverse is true over there for many things. Many over there barely "do" anything and still talk trash.

Samuel Browning
05-02-2006, 02:08 PM
In regards to content you're ignoring a number of our current threads such as the Fang Shen Do thread, the Christopher Geary thread, and the Bryce Dallas thread just for starters.

Incidently I have posted very little on the FSD thread and the BD thread so there are obviously people other then myself generating content on Bullshido. See Stringfellow for example.

The Bannon article was helped by the arrest warrant, but it was not dependant upon it.

The problem you face is that TMA does not want to do investigations,* yet it is not generating much if any other content. (Video Clips, articles, product reviews, etc) When you do create content you will be able to put aside your dislike of Bullshido and actually may have an impact in the martial arts community. But until then you're just talking among yourselves.

*based on your comments here.

SifuAbel
05-03-2006, 11:16 AM
This makes me laugh most of all. "Talking amongst yourselves." This is hilarious since a good portion of those people are bullshido members seeking content. BLDO is an episode of *******. A lot of the people that are talking amognst themselves are high ranking MA people unlike what you have as the majority over there. We got Ronin , you got...........Osirus. bwahahahahaha

As for the "investigation" they will come to nothing, as usual. :rolleyes:

Samuel Browning
05-03-2006, 05:51 PM
This makes me laugh most of all. "Talking amongst yourselves." This is hilarious since a good portion of those people are bullshido members seeking content. BLDO is an episode of *******. A lot of the people that are talking amognst themselves are high ranking MA people unlike what you have as the majority over there. We got Ronin , you got...........Osirus. bwahahahahaha

As for the "investigation" they will come to nothing, as usual. :rolleyes:

You referred to a single investigation and we have multiple ones going forward as you pontificate. You should really read the Stringfellow article sometime its a wonderful contribution on FSD and we're getting feedback from some people who are in the process of leaving these schools. That's an accomplishment.

Or go to the Bryce Dallas thread and see the text of the court decision denying his request to reopen his guitly plea on his last criminal conviction. This is the first time such information has been reproduced on a public venue.

The last time I visited TMA I was struck by the fact that the lively section of your board seemed to be JFS flirting with someone called PITD. That's their perogative but its not exactly Martial Arts related content.

I like Ronin, CT and Peter H a lot, but in the content production department you guys seem at a standstill. Why not do something about it instead about *****ing about Bullshido? Oh, thats right, that seems to be your [Rudy's] purpose in internet life. Its hard to generate a distinct identity when you spend your time defining how your not like us, rather then who you are on your own.

SifuAbel
05-04-2006, 01:27 AM
Yes, yes, you got a couple good threads that make the other 99% of the hogwash on that site credible. Yes, please, do go on. :rolleyes:

These investigations have little to do with you. You are trying to make yourslves out to be this force when in reality you are nothing more than a sounding board. You've heard from FSD students who were leaving anyways. You reprinted a court document concerning a persons criminal conviction. hardly news , really.

BTW, why do you keep referring to TMA? Its not my site. I don't have much to do with them, In the past I have caught many of your cronies surfing it. Ask them about it. It obvious, you've only read it when it started.

Speaking of JFS, how do you justify that yellow journalistic witch hunt? You(the staff, collectively) turned a misunderstanding into the spanish inquisition. Taking posts out of context, spinning facts to fit a convenient mold. And, ticking off members in the process that viewed this as such, a witch hunt. Also, It pretty cowardly to put me on global ignore instead of just banning me.

Or, on another note, how do you justify anti semetic and racist humor as being "O.K."?

Plenty of stuff to point out. But i need not continue since most here already know.

Samuel Browning
05-06-2006, 08:43 PM
Yes, yes, you got a couple good threads that make the other 99% of the hogwash on that site credible. Yes, please, do go on. :rolleyes:

These investigations have little to do with you. You are trying to make yourslves out to be this force when in reality you are nothing more than a sounding board. You've heard from FSD students who were leaving anyways. You reprinted a court document concerning a persons criminal conviction. hardly news , really.

BTW, why do you keep referring to TMA? Its not my site. I don't have much to do with them, In the past I have caught many of your cronies surfing it. Ask them about it. It obvious, you've only read it when it started.

Speaking of JFS, how do you justify that yellow journalistic witch hunt? You(the staff, collectively) turned a misunderstanding into the spanish inquisition. Taking posts out of context, spinning facts to fit a convenient mold. And, ticking off members in the process that viewed this as such, a witch hunt. Also, It pretty cowardly to put me on global ignore instead of just banning me.

Or, on another note, how do you justify anti semetic and racist humor as being "O.K."?

Plenty of stuff to point out. But i need not continue since most here already know.

Err Rudy, didn't I mention last page that I had little to do with the FSD thread or the Bryce Dallas thead to make the point that it wasn't just myself generating content? Now you "discover" that I had little to do with these threads as part of your argument. You're not to swift are you? And if you read that thread you would notice that the group of people there are posting content like former, contradictory FSD yellow page advertisements.

As far as good quality posts go, I disagree with your 99% figure, go look at our armory section sometime. I'd say over 50% of the posts in this section are good, substantive posts.

TMA came up because you advertise it in your signature, have about 700 posts there since January, and wrote some of their stickies. Were you a staff member there at one time? I remember reading correspondence between you and Dijimbe. I assume he wasn't writing you for no reason.

As far as JFS goes this episode was concluded here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31256 the issue was whether he was teaching grappling at a seminar. Notice that this was a location specially set up for only he and Anthony to argue, he walked off the thread and hasn't returned. And my lively comment is current, I was over there this week any if anything they're generating a higher number of flirt posts and threads then a month ago.

I don't justify racist or anti-semetic posting, if you look at our ban list we've banned for the former. However because we believe in lightly moderated conversation people have posted comments that have gone over the line from time to time, but we ban as a last resort its not an endorsement of such views. For example I don't agree with all the misoginistic things you say but you weren't banned even after you said these things to JKD Chick.

Finally yes you are on general ignore over at Bullshido. I think it came from spending four or five straight months of going after the site founder whenever he posted. (You must have had about 300-400 posts on this theme) Of course when we did our April Fools prank, (Bull**** sold to Map) you tried to ruin our stunt. I was definately glad you were on ignore at the time.

KC Elbows
05-10-2006, 04:17 PM
Rudy, Sam was never a supporter of Boyd's conduct on Bullshido(regarding the "anti-semitic" comment).

And Sam, The other site may not have your fine investigations, but it likewise has never run a botched investigation on anyone either and then totally pretended that there are no repercussions. If you like, I could list just the ones involving staff members or we could simply all agree that there is nothing ****ier than arguing which INTERNET FORUM is cooler.

Regardless, your investigation was great work, but another staff member tried to do a hatchet job on Rudy and screwed it up by apparently claiming to have info he did not end up having, and you know this. Rudy's gripe, in this case, is not unfounded, though I disagree with him about the quality of your work, especially having seen the investigation in progress.

Samuel Browning
05-10-2006, 05:16 PM
Rudy, Sam was never a supporter of Boyd's conduct on Bullshido(regarding the "anti-semitic" comment).

And Sam, The other site may not have your fine investigations, but it likewise has never run a botched investigation on anyone either and then totally pretended that there are no repercussions. If you like, I could list just the ones involving staff members or we could simply all agree that there is nothing ****ier than arguing which INTERNET FORUM is cooler.

Regardless, your investigation was great work, but another staff member tried to do a hatchet job on Rudy and screwed it up by apparently claiming to have info he did not end up having, and you know this. Rudy's gripe, in this case, is not unfounded, though I disagree with him about the quality of your work, especially having seen the investigation in progress.

Hi KC Elbows:

Thank you, and yes I did have problems with Boyd over that episode. (Most of the arguing was in the BBC so I don't feel free to discuss it here) I would prefer not to argue which forum is "cooler" but Rudy opened the argument and we were back to arguing the way we did at the old place, throwing the kitchen sink at each other.

My understanding is that Anthony obtained some quotes from one of Rudy's profiles and posted them in his sig but thats between the two of them, and I don't know what you think I do :) If they want to argue it out perhaps they can start a thread somewhere neutral like here.

I hope everthing is going well, and take care.

SifuAbel
05-10-2006, 05:20 PM
No , as for the JFS issue. It got turned around by anthony be some kind of complete witch hunt claiming that he was fraud in ALL his credentials. JFS walking off didn't prove anything either. Also, since when does grappling belong to a finite few? JFS made his explanations, many noted them as being clear, yet the witch hunt continued. many noted that it was a witch hunt. It continued because of the rampant retarded actions of several staff members. Why did it continue? Because JFS, and others, were sick of the immunity given to certain people to wreak havok on the board. Ronin left because of it. Ronin also left because he was sick of having kid noob idiots make their opinions policy, simply becasue they happen to practice the staus quo styles.

You don't like boyd's comments? Too bad, he gets a free pass. Even when sharlinter's account was hacked by some of those same members they were still allowed to continue after a short "psuedo ban" . BS's credibilty is nill. You may not have supported it but Neal did. :rolleyes: :mad:

As for my being on global ignore. Its becaue Neal is afraid of me and of TMA. Or just me. He professes to me that he isn't on an anti kung fu crusade. Yet he goes after me personally becasue of the same reasons above. The whole thing wreaks. I will kick his butt on site. He wants to tarnish MY name? He better be ready for some serious internet business. As KC has stated BLSD has botched more than one crusade. The very notion of anthony trying to use an acting site as proof of some fraud is laughable and a little psychotic. And then of couse is all the misquoting and twisting yellow journalism.

Many people put their websites on their signatures. That explanation is bogus to the max. Neal doesn't hesitate to do the same EVERYWHERE he goes. BS on that noise.

The armory section is relatively new. So what. Its still a bunch of yahoos talking about guns. Big whoop.

I said it before. You REALLY want to make a difference? Leave those fools behind, they are dragging you down.

SifuAbel
05-10-2006, 05:22 PM
Hi KC Elbows:
My understanding is that Anthony obtained some quotes from one of Rudy's profiles and posted them in his sig \


Anthony took two separate quotes from posts and combined them to mean something totally different. Wow, talk about truth.

Samuel Browning
05-10-2006, 05:25 PM
Anthony took two separate quotes from posts and combined them to mean something totally different. Wow, talk about truth.

Then invite him to debate the matter on TMA.

SifuAbel
05-10-2006, 05:31 PM
Whats there to debate? Its an out and out fruadulent claim. He asked me if I have ever been exposed to grappling. Not what credentials I hold . He makes it sound like I'm trying to pass myself off as some BB in BJJ. Hogwash.

And his information comes from?................. an acting site.

Where I post the things I can PLAY on film. NEVER have I claimed rank in them.


you're slipping, try harder.

Samuel Browning
05-10-2006, 05:43 PM
No , as for the JFS issue. It got turned around by anthony be some kind of complete witch hunt claiming that he was fraud in ALL his credentials. JFS walking off didn't prove anything either. Also, since when does grappling belong to a finite few? JFS made his explanations, many noted them as being clear, yet the witch hunt continued. many noted that it was a witch hunt. It continued because of the rampant retarded actions of several staff members. Why did it continue? Because JFS, and others, were sick of the immunity given to certain people to wreak havok on the board. Ronin left because of it. Ronin also left because he was sick of having kid noob idiots make their opinions policy, simply becasue they happen to practice the staus quo styles.

You don't like boyd's comments? Too bad, he gets a free pass. Even when sharlinter's account was hacked by some of those same members they were still allowed to continue after a short "psuedo ban" . BS's credibilty is nill. You may not have supported it but Neal did. :rolleyes: :mad:

As for my being on global ignore. Its becaue Neal is afraid of me and of TMA. Or just me. He professes to me that he isn't on an anti kung fu crusade. Yet he goes after me personally becasue of the same reasons above. The whole thing wreaks. I will kick his butt on site. He wants to tarnish MY name? He better be ready for some serious internet business. As KC has stated BLSD has botched more than one crusade. The very notion of anthony trying to use an acting site as proof of some fraud is laughable and a little psychotic. And then of couse is all the misquoting and twisting yellow journalism.

Many people put their websites on their signatures. That explanation is bogus to the max. Neal doesn't hesitate to do the same EVERYWHERE he goes. BS on that noise.

The armory section is relatively new. So what. Its still a bunch of yahoos talking about guns. Big whoop.

I said it before. You REALLY want to make a difference? Leave those fools behind, they are dragging you down.

It got turned around? Even though JFS was making over a dozen posts a day, he didn't want to go to a particular thread and argue with Anthony one on one because Anthony had found that he was teaching grappling at a seminar when he was unqualified to do so.

And don't you remember that Boyd got banned for nine months? Yup, Phrost always protected the guy, except for when he got banned.

As for Phrost, he's not afraid of you, but you were clogging threads, and going after him on almost every post you made. 300-400 such posts clog up a lot of threads Mr. Monkey, it was time for you to pursue your obsession elsewhere.

Which reminds me. Were you staff or not at TMA, and if you were staff, and are staff no longer why did you step down? And if you weren't staff why was Djimbi writing you all the time? You don't deny you wrote 700 posts there in four plus months, or some of their stickies so why not just say your a representive of their site?

I stand by the Armory section, we have some great posts in there. But its okay, Rudy you can't admit what Bullshido does right so your over here trying to throw poo. Why don't you defend Bannon, if you think my work is a farce, come on, lets see you try.

Samuel Browning
05-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Whats there to debate? Its an out and out fruadulent claim. He asked me if I have ever been exposed to grappling. Not what credentials I hold . He makes it sound like I'm trying to pass myself off as some BB in BJJ. Hogwash.

And his information comes from?................. an acting site.

Where I post the things I can PLAY on film. NEVER have I claimed rank in them.


you're slipping, try harder.

And did you specifically say "I can play" these martial arts, or that you do these martial arts? There is a world of difference.

Why don't you reproduce the links and the disputed quotes here if you want to argue the point.

KC Elbows
05-10-2006, 09:09 PM
Hi KC Elbows:

Thank you, and yes I did have problems with Boyd over that episode. (Most of the arguing was in the BBC so I don't feel free to discuss it here) I would prefer not to argue which forum is "cooler" but Rudy opened the argument and we were back to arguing the way we did at the old place, throwing the kitchen sink at each other.

My understanding is that Anthony obtained some quotes from one of Rudy's profiles and posted them in his sig but thats between the two of them, and I don't know what you think I do :) If they want to argue it out perhaps they can start a thread somewhere neutral like here.

I hope everthing is going well, and take care.

I tried to respond to your pm, I suspect my response got zapped.

Anthony posted the info as a teaser to an investigation first, saying how bad the investigation was going to make Rudy look. It never happened. This, of course, was after he released the JFS thing too early. Of course, it was well after he took part in the investigation with DRD of a student of Jamoke's in which one of the investigators made physical threats through the pm system, which culminated in me ending that investigation and DRD and I having it out. Anthony had, literally, no information from that investigation. Wasn't he in on the _SS_ deal?

Ironically, Anthony was a staunch supporter of Jamoke, who was exactly like JFS.

The rest of this post has been edited down four times. Your bringing up Bulshido politics on a forum I frequent is in bad faith, and your need to argue Abel is not a good excuse. I suspect you forgot why I left, and coming here plugging Bullshido on a CMA site with friends of mine, who I've known longer than you, who are kung fu stylists, while ommiting that the Bullshido site owner has very specific and defacto policies recently put in place regarding them that I do not agree with, and then expecting me to sit quiet, is disrespectful, pushing the envelope, and will likely achieve exactly the opposite of what you want, considering that you aren't the source of the idiotic policies. Your crusade isn't mine, and I wish you well, but you're the ethical front man for irresponsible children, period.

Take care, but whatever you do, keep Bullshido crap away from me.

Samuel Browning
05-10-2006, 09:45 PM
I tried to respond to your pm, I suspect my response got zapped..

Not by me.



Anthony posted the info as a teaser to an investigation first, saying how bad the investigation was going to make Rudy look. It never happened. This, of course, was after he released the JFS thing too early. Of course, it was well after he took part in the investigation with DRD of a student of Jamoke's in which one of the investigators made physical threats through the pm system, which culminated in me ending that investigation and DRD and I having it out. Anthony had, literally, no information from that investigation. Wasn't he in on the _SS_ deal?/QUOTE]

I've asked Rudy to reproduce the relevant comments here, I've at least read that Anthony has accused Rudy of padding his resume, though I can't produce the quotes from memory. I did not see the Teaser, but if Rudy wants to reproduce it, its relevent to this argument.

I won't discuss past arguments on the Administrative Board. You are obviously not under such constraints.

[QUOTE=KC Elbows]
Ironically, Anthony was a staunch supporter of Jamoke, who was exactly like JFS.

The rest of this post has been edited down four times. Your bringing up Bulshido politics on a forum I frequent is in bad faith, and your need to argue Abel is not a good excuse. I suspect you forgot why I left, and coming here plugging Bullshido on a CMA site with friends of mine, who I've known longer than you, who are kung fu stylists, while ommiting that the Bullshido site owner has very specific and defacto policies recently put in place regarding them that I do not agree with, and then expecting me to sit quiet, is disrespectful, pushing the envelope, and will likely achieve exactly the opposite of what you want, considering that you aren't the source of the idiotic policies. Your crusade isn't mine, and I wish you well, but you're the ethical front man for irresponsible children, period.

Take care, but whatever you do, keep Bullshido crap away from me.

I could waste my time pointing out that Rudy was the one who started this poo slinging contest but I doubt that you will agree with this obvious point. I was asked to do the article I wrote by Gene and it does not contain anything that is disrespectful to CMA. As for Bulshido politics you are the one who insists on talking about certain past administrative conflicts in detail. If you don't want me posting here, you can complain to the powers that be but I will not avoid this site where I started to post in May or June of 2004.

Best wishes.

SifuAbel
05-11-2006, 12:06 AM
And did you specifically say "I can play" these martial arts, or that you do these martial arts? There is a world of difference.



Yes, of course I did. And If I did reproduce the links , what are you going to say? oops? grow up. I'm not even going to bother looking, being that its policy over there to change peoples posts to suit you.

I said it several times. AND I was asked if ever I was exposed to said MA that I can play on film. And I said I have. How that translates to me professing a BB I don't know. Its so typical of the twisting. I'm surprised you guys haven't gone under from a law suit yet.

Wait,, don't tell me. Now you're going to whine about how I should. :rolleyes:

Padded my resume? Which resume? The link he provides is to nowcasting.com. A CASTING site. You have to be near retarded to try and stick to this as evidence.

BTW, sam, whats your MA expertise?

SifuAbel
05-11-2006, 12:13 AM
Bullshido, as usual, did nothing. It was only Sam Browning that made any kind of effort.

I thought lawyers had to learn to read first.

I did give you your credit, somewhat.

SifuAbel
05-11-2006, 12:17 AM
and I wish you well, but you're the ethical front man for irresponsible children, period.

Take care, but whatever you do, keep Bullshido crap away from me.

Oh!!! thats a burn. The jury has found you guilty as charged. Please leave and go behead yourself.

Invisible-fist
05-11-2006, 12:18 AM
What is TMA?

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 08:19 AM
Oh!!! thats a burn. The jury has found you guilty as charged. Please leave and go behead yourself.

Sorry a minimum of six is needed for a proper jury :) and TMA is another board.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 08:30 AM
Not by me.



I've asked Rudy to reproduce the relevant comments here, I've at least read that Anthony has accused Rudy of padding his resume, though I can't produce the quotes from memory. I did not see the Teaser, but if Rudy wants to reproduce it, its relevent to this argument.

I won't discuss past arguments on the Administrative Board. You are obviously not under such constraints.

You actually expect me to sit quiet while you plug Bullshido to kung fu guys, knowing the reason for my leaving? You expect too much.

Let me put it terms that relate to Bullshido policy.

Aesopian established that protests against site abuses are outside the realm of site rules. Additionally, when the site management chooses to take advantage of the confidentiality of former staff by using their silence to push policy further, which was done to both Ronin and I, they have no reason to expect confidentiality, since there is no agreement of confidentiality at any point except a mutual one. If you are upset about this, yell at Phrost, it's not my choice.


I could waste my time pointing out that Rudy was the one who started this poo slinging contest but I doubt that you will agree with this obvious point.

You would be wrong about that, and curiously so. I must assume that you're thinking that since Rudy and I both have issues with Bullshido, they are, by default, the same issues, and that we are a team. In otherwords, we're them, and you guys are an us. That's not the case. When independent people come to the same conclusion from different sources, are they in conspiracy? No.

I admit, I posted on Truthma certain info because I knew Bullshido members had targetted the site, and I knew that I could end that decisively, and I did, and both forums are probably better off for it. I was honest with that info, explained my part in it as just as bad as anyone's, and left it at that. I did not form a cabal with members of that site, just as Rudy and I aren't a cabal. I vented privately to a few members, and that's about it.

Phrost painted me as a JFS supporter DESPITE the fact that I stated that my main issues were policy ones, stated in the BBC that I felt JFS could have handled that better, stated in PM to JFS the same, and have, basically, no association with JFS regardless, yet certain staff members who decide to publically scold Ronin and myself are incapable of doing the same for Phrost.

This whole view that I'm "taking Rudy's side" is unsupported by anything I have said or done. Three times now I've supported your investigation. I understand that you are in an official conundrum in which you must be gushing reverence of the Bullshido way, and apparently you expected me to do the same or be silent, but that expectation isn't reasonable.


I specifically stated that your basic argument with Rudy about your investigation is your business. Regardless, you know that my issue with the site was over the policy of considering all chinese martial arts as bullshido, and the way that those of us in staff who were traditionalists were neither warned of this policy change, nor given any heed when the main investigations pushing this policy, Anthony's investigation and the silly, aimless interrogation of Kickcatcher, were clear examples to all of abuse of the investigative process, by incompetence where it wasn't by intent. The GOAL was discrediting Rudy, and the goal was placed before the process of seeing whether there was something worth investigating. I'm NOT going to argue as though I need to prove these things to you that you and I both ALREADY KNOW are true, and your official silence will quickly read as affirmation.

When you come on here arguing with Rudy, that's your deal, but when you attempt to come and push a view of Bullshido that may attract kung fu guys, you're gonna have to deal with establishing that the policy of investigating kung fu instructors who are members based solely on their choice of style is either dead, or still going. Regardless of how long you've been here. So, is it still in place?


I was asked to do the article I wrote by Gene and it does not contain anything that is disrespectful to CMA.

NOTHING you've intentionally done is. But when you push other people's programs, you push their policies, and may suffer from the results of their poor thinking. I realize that I'm preaching to the choir with you on that one, and I certainly don't like these circumstances, but the line is drawn, and I'm not backing down from it: play Bullshido politics on forums I frequent, and I play too. It's all on you guys, I made a protest move on truthma, and have not said a word since then, but that's not a sign of my tolerance of Bullshido politics, but of a truce that was dependent on you people, not me.


As for Bulshido politics you are the one who insists on talking about certain past administrative conflicts in detail. If you don't want me posting here, you can complain to the powers that be but I will not avoid this site where I started to post in May or June of 2004.

I never said I don't want you to post here, I said if you play Bullshido politics, I'll play back, if you don't, I won't. Are you saying you cannot post unless it is a plug for Bullshido that I can refute?

I'm a bit confused on how you even think that chasing what you consider to be a troll here justifies plugging Bullshido as the home and the way and then expecting me not to outright state that Bullshido has a lame policy towards it's cma members when you are plugging the site here to people I know. Should I not tell them? Why?

Really, I knew from the get go that Phrost didn't care for cma, and never had a problem with that AS LONG AS IT WAS NOT SITE POLICY. Can you show otherwise? The answer is no, that was my view for years.

And when it was secretly pushed as policy, and we were told we'd lost our way by somehow not being in line with that without being informed of it, I tried to step down and debate it in a friendly manner, pointing out that Phrost himself claimed to Rudy in the monkey kung fu thread to be qualified to judge broad styles, something his fight record does not reflect. The argument moved to another thread, where I KEPT IT FRIENDLY, but Phrost locked the thread and painted all who disagreed as, essentially, serving Bullshido. I left, and will not tolerate THAT bullshido again.

Ronin pointed out the problem with both sides, which is that the ends do not justify the means. He is correct, but I lack his patience. The current Bullshido method is that, no matter how bad the investigation, as long as it leads to some sort of indictment of a (prefereably traditional) martial artists character, it's okay, and, in keeping with this sort of investigative laziness, the membership should be the first target, and from that group, the tmaists, and from them, the cmaists. Remember when Greese1, Boyd, and Kungfools proved a member may have used a dating service to find extramarital sex? Proud moment, Boyd as the moral outrage of Bullshido. What does that have to do with martial arts? Nothing. But it achieved an end, and proved one of those moments when I began to find the mission utterly mired in stupidity.

Tell me, which non-cma practitioners in the staff are actually experienced in whole styles, be they mma or tma? I count two, Asia and Omega, yet it's a group of the OTHER staff members, who either are not consistently practicing martial artists, or who are proven tomato cans in their arts of choice, who have embraced the belief that they can judge whole styles regardless of whether they have even SEEN the style in use. And that's what I am still against, because your investigations do not end at the Bullshido banner page, they have actual repercussions, and so it's NOT simply your business, despite JKDChick's approach to the topic that only Phrost's position matters.

Again, explain to me why you arguing with Rudy should be more important to me than you plugging an intrusive, biased site to the people it would be intrusive toward and biased against, who are also my friends? Or, alternately, simply quit the schpiel on this website, and none of this will come up again.

I am sorry that you are the one to take the hits for Phrost's poor thinking, but I am well aware that you know that that is how it works over there.

Don't con my friends and I won't be an issue. Or demonstrate that that policy died the heinous death it deserved, thus actually improving your site by leaps and bounds. My personal suggestion would be establish one staff member, Asia would be ideal, considering he spotted every bad investigation going on before I left and tried to do something about it, who is granted the power to nitz investigations regardless of Phrost's position on them, give him a frightening title like Komissar Asia, give him authority to punish abusers by giving them unsightly avatars, forcing them to post as gimmick accounts that would require them to be able to post as tmaists so that they would have at least a passing familiarity of what they may be investigating in the future, all this assuming Phrost has remembered that the site is about the members overall views, not his. And then abolish the style policy violently and publically.

You might also consider giving Anthony a handler before letting him play investigator again: currently, his lack of reliability as an investigator does not equate to a compelling argument for Abel to answer to him.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 08:34 AM
Yes, of course I did. And If I did reproduce the links , what are you going to say? oops? grow up. I'm not even going to bother looking, being that its policy over there to change peoples posts to suit you.

I said it several times. AND I was asked if ever I was exposed to said MA that I can play on film. And I said I have. How that translates to me professing a BB I don't know. Its so typical of the twisting. I'm surprised you guys haven't gone under from a law suit yet.

Wait,, don't tell me. Now you're going to whine about how I should. :rolleyes:

Padded my resume? Which resume? The link he provides is to nowcasting.com. A CASTING site. You have to be near retarded to try and stick to this as evidence.

BTW, sam, whats your MA expertise?

If you want me to argue Anthony's points when he's not here I need the links, otherwise your wasting our time. And from memory, I don't believe the issue was a black belt, he said that you were claiming a proficiency in arts you had not really studied. Of course without the actual quotes here, its he said, he said, so links please. And why is a misrepresentation on a casting site, which involves a job, less relevent then a misprepresentation here?

Now I do not claim martial arts expertise. And my article on Bannon did not require MA expertise. But my martial arts experience is as follows.

2.5 years as a kid studying Isshinryu Karate.
2 years studying Wing Chun (school closed)
2 years studying BJJ, (back injury reaggravated)
Basic and advanced coursed in Model Mugging-Impact program for Men. (The Basic was worth it, the others were not)
Various other short term experiences and boxing with my buddies.
No Black Belt Claim :)

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 08:45 AM
What is TMA?

Two different things:

TMA=traditional martial arts

TMA=Truthmartialarts.org

The website shares members in common with Bullshido, and former members. It was formed in honor of the basic mision of Bullshido, but in protest of the direction. It is a smaller website, but there are some highly qualified individuals among the membership, and, of course, all the other internet personalities one comes to expect. The owner is not antagonistic toward Bullshido in any way, and seems to be a pleasant guy.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 08:51 AM
And why is a misrepresentation on a casting site, which involves a job, less relevent then a misprepresentation here?


Loaded language. Casting is not concerned with what fields of study you hold knowledge in, they are concerned with what activities you can act. If you cannot understand that a monkey stylist, for purposes of tv, can play a judo teacher, then I would inquire how many of the actors of LA Law you are willing to call frauds in adherence to this flawed argument.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 09:56 AM
Since Abel is to go to Anthony to satisfy Anthony's investigative itch(hobby), I have a few questions related to Anthony's credentials. As I understand credentials being vital to Bullshido's approach, I'm sure you can understand.

1) What exactly are Anthony's credentials as an investigator that enable him to run official investigations?

2) What exactly are Anthony's credentials that enable him to run official interrogations in the hidden forums? Where was he trained in interrogation? The nam? Bolivia in the eighties? Correspondence course?

3) If, hypothetically, he has no such credentials, does he consider legitimizing his investigations as valid through force of personality to be comparable to teaching karate and calling it "nijutsu budo sanshici kai" based on the number of patches* on his leopard print uniform, or does he have a different view of it?

4) If he has no such credentials, does someone else sign off on his official investigations before they are posted? Who is that person?

5) Which of these Anthony investigations would you least like to sign off on: a) investigating(harrassing) Jamoke's former student who made a claim which went uninvestigated by the site that Jamoke demoted him for political reasons, said investigation motivated entirely by favoritism within the staff, b) _SS_, c) The premature release of the JFS investigation, d) The nonexistent Abel acting investigation.

6) Since only the lawyers on staff have any real world investigative experience, does this mean that any official investigation, including the initial jfs one, was signed off by you guys?

7) If there is no signing off, and since you cannot separate staff investigations as members from official investigations, what legitimacy do Anthony's, and any official investigations not run by you lawyers, have?

8) Anthony has twice claimed to be about to deliver explosive content, only to turn out to have rather boring or weak data. Is Anthony, in fact, Geraldo Rivera?



*that would be 34 patches, bairen.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:34 AM
Nope, I would have expected the following. That you wouldn't take an thread about an article that used some information from a Bulshido investigation, and concerned two articles published by Kungfu Magazine, and use it at a platform for your complaints about Bullshido. This is especially the case because when my article didn't mention the issues we are presently discussing.

As far as you and Rudy go, I will accept your word that you have your own independant axes to grind with Bulshido and that this just happens to be a convenient venue for the two of you to air your grievances.

The article itself was a clean up effort on two earlier articles published by Kungfu Magazine that were published when there were problems with their claims which should have led to them to be rejected for publication. Bulshido was mentioned for those who wanted to read the full investigation, and my affiliation with Bulshido was mentioned because it was relevent to the story. That's two mentions. If people thought I was being unfair to Bannon they could go and read the original materials and make up their own minds. Was that plugging Bulshido? Would it have been better never to mention Bulshido when my affiliation was relevant to the story? The person who I really plugged in that article was Steve Robinson whom I quoted and his work, but don't worry, dispite our disagreements you can still read and buy Steve's fine book.:) I will personally assure you it contains no negative comments about CMA.

In law school we used to joke that the holding or policy established by a case was whatever you could argue it to be. So when I read "Aesopian established that protests against site abuses are outside the realm of site rules." I have to shrug and say,that is what you want to argue the situation to be. The real issue involved was banning procedure. Afterwards at different times you and Ronin voluntarily decided to leave the Administrative section, but were not forced out. So I disagree with your decision regarding admin confidentiality and yourself.

My so called "official silence" is not an affirmation of your points. Its simply a recognition that I cannot make certain arguments without providing lots of information from our administrative section and I won't do it.

Bulshido never targeted TMA, there was never a forum invasion by us. Since the site was set up to compete with Bulshido we did not cooperate with TMA's recruitment efforts. Your targeting problem came with Jim and Tigerfly.

I'll have to tell my fellow staff member and CMA enthusiast Mr. Mantis that site policy is that all CMAs are Bulshido, I think this would surprise him though Phrost has his own opinions of CMA they are not site policy, though when he ended up in arguments with Rudy he locked some threads. Of course the arguments would often go pages and pages, and Phrost would hit the end of his tolerance for fighting with Rudy, which as the readers here might realize can be a full time job and fairly frustrating.

As far as the Boyd and Kungfools "investigation" goes neither of them are staff, and it was not an official investigation (I thought they and not Greese1 pushed that one forward,). If I remember correctly JKD Chick stopped that effort which incidently targetted another staff member. Neither is respresentive of the site, and as I previously mentioned Boyd just came off of a nine month ban. So is Bullshido responsible for that particular conduct? No.

As far as Anthony goes, his first writeup on JFS was corrected by his second writeup We then got them an internet room to discuss the matter, and JFS decided to leave. And I'll argue Anthony's case or choose not to argue it re Rudy, when Rudy provides the relevant links and information.

The sad thing is that you view yourself as Horatio at the Gate. Based on the events here if someone even mentions Bulshido you may consider them plugging the site and we will be back with your arguments. No con at Bullshido, your friends can make up their own minds free of charge, and act accordingly.

I could write more but a couple thousand words are good for now.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:40 AM
Loaded language. Casting is not concerned with what fields of study you hold knowledge in, they are concerned with what activities you can act. If you cannot understand that a monkey stylist, for purposes of tv, can play a judo teacher, then I would inquire how many of the actors of LA Law you are willing to call frauds in adherence to this flawed argument.

Any actor can be trained to read lines like a lawyer. And anyone can play a judo teacher if martial arts are not demonstrated, however if someone would like to claim they can carry out judo moves competently for the camera as part of their skill set then one should ask how much knowledge is necessary to make this claim. But I'll need to see the actual words before commenting further.

Phrost
05-11-2006, 10:44 AM
Two different things:

TMA=traditional martial arts

TMA=Truthmartialarts.org

The website shares members in common with Bullshido, and former members. It was formed in honor of the basic mision of Bullshido, but in protest of the direction. It is a smaller website, but there are some highly qualified individuals among the membership, and, of course, all the other internet personalities one comes to expect. The owner is not antagonistic toward Bullshido in any way, and seems to be a pleasant guy.

And a 17 (18 now?) year old kid who lives with his parents, believes in occult magic, and thinks he can astral project; essentially Chrono + Crappling. I don't know what bizarro internet you've been using, but on the real one, credulity like that is not even remotely "in common with the basic mission of Bullshido".

You know KC, your issues with how things were run are 100% the result of your mindless Sinophilia. Everything else is just gravy tossed on the putrid meat of those issues to mask the stench. It might fool you, but it doesn't fool anyone else. Your participation started in good faith, but became little more than the CMA version of the BJJ nutriding that got you so worked up in the first place. If you weren't such a sinophile, you might have had a shot at objectively seeing the merit in purging members who think that choreography is a more valid form of training than sparring. But we know that's not the case, and your attachment to all things Chinese supercedes your ability to make rational judgements as to what's best for a website that fights for increased training standards in the Martial Arts.

I left you a voice mail by the way, which you apparently ignored. You're cordially invited to show up to the Throwdown we're having on the 27th.

As far as Rudy goes, he's an obsessive nutjob who's had issues with the idea of going after the status quo in the Martial Arts since day 1 of Bullshido. He is the status quo, with the resume padding, tacit approval of inflated ranks, and putting more importance on the appearance of techniques than their efficiency. ("MMA strikers are sloppy", for example).

It would be nice if I had the time to sit here and play quote tag while fending off the inevitable monkey-style poo flinging that will be smeared all over this board shortly. But it's lunch time and I'd rather have a sandwich than deal with a rabid monkey that's always been content to sit in his own filth instead of contribute to cleaning things up.

So in summation:

KC: Stop whining. If Gene didn't want Sam posting on this board, I'm sure he can handle it without your help. Oh, and Sinophile. That's such a great word, isn't it?

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Since Abel is to go to Anthony to satisfy Anthony's investigative itch(hobby), I have a few questions related to Anthony's credentials. As I understand credentials being vital to Bullshido's approach, I'm sure you can understand.

1) What exactly are Anthony's credentials as an investigator that enable him to run official investigations?

2) What exactly are Anthony's credentials that enable him to run official interrogations in the hidden forums? Where was he trained in interrogation? The nam? Bolivia in the eighties? Correspondence course?

3) If, hypothetically, he has no such credentials, does he consider legitimizing his investigations as valid through force of personality to be comparable to teaching karate and calling it "nijutsu budo sanshici kai" based on the number of patches* on his leopard print uniform, or does he have a different view of it?

4) If he has no such credentials, does someone else sign off on his official investigations before they are posted? Who is that person?

5) Which of these Anthony investigations would you least like to sign off on: a) investigating(harrassing) Jamoke's former student who made a claim which went uninvestigated by the site that Jamoke demoted him for political reasons, said investigation motivated entirely by favoritism within the staff, b) _SS_, c) The premature release of the JFS investigation, d) The nonexistent Abel acting investigation.

6) Since only the lawyers on staff have any real world investigative experience, does this mean that any official investigation, including the initial jfs one, was signed off by you guys?

7) If there is no signing off, and since you cannot separate staff investigations as members from official investigations, what legitimacy do Anthony's, and any official investigations not run by you lawyers, have?

8) Anthony has twice claimed to be about to deliver explosive content, only to turn out to have rather boring or weak data. Is Anthony, in fact, Geraldo Rivera?

*that would be 34 patches, bairen.

First the lawyers on the site are not the only ones with investigatory experience. We also have a number of LEOS and at least one person who formally worked in revenue services.

I do not know what Anthony's MOS was in the Army but otherwise he does computers for a living. That helps in obtaining information that is online, but to my knowledge he is not a trained investigator.

In answer to your question, one does not have to be a "trained investigator" to do investigations though it helps.

4, 6, 7) Are staff issues we are currently working on, but the short answer is that a person should evaluate any investigation carefully based on its content and thoughness, regardless of the credentials of the investigator.

5) (a) of course I had to step in to try to pry those two apart at one time, what a pain in the ass.

8) No, Anthony has no mustache. :)

GeneChing
05-11-2006, 11:22 AM
This thread has taken a surprising turn, eh?

I've always liked the idea behind Bullshido. Given my position, there are plenty of people I'd like to call B.S. on. Hell, Bannon was one. I tried to call B.S. on him many times, but that's another story. Anyway, it's unprofessional in my position to just go around calling B.S. - it's contrary to our mission to promote martial arts, since it only adds to the already negative press that surrounds us. Plus some of those B.S.ers I'd call down actually pay their bills, whilst many of the B.S. callers don't pay for ****, so there you go.

That being said, criticising any forum for being mostly B.S. is really funny to me. Of course every forum is mostly B.S. Forums are open to anyone with an email. Sure, some forum are more aggressive about banning people, but there's no criteria for application. It's just people posting - kids, malcontents, socially inept characters, and occasionally interesting members. Most people have little to offer than B.S. That's the fun of it. Every forum has its personality, but that personality is determined by its membership, and its membership is always subject to ebb and flow. We come here to shoot the bull.

I'm very grateful to the work Samuel and Bullshido have done with Bannon. I'm happy that Bullshido exists, just because it's got a very special character amongst MA forums - there's nothing like forum of skeptics. But if you are skeptical of the skeptics, that puts you in this weird recursive realm that borders on lonesome existentialism. And why bother bashing them here? Go bash them on Bullshido.

Forums are funny things. They're vital organisms. Some are evil. Some are harmless. Most are an amusing passtime. But just to give you a peek, right now, I've got two pending legal actions on this forum - basically people crying to me because someone else 'offended' or slandered them. I mention this just to let you all know that it's tough to keep forums going. Overall, I feel MA forums contribute a lot to MA because more communication, even if it's just flame wars, is a good thing. I imagine you all do to, or you wouldn't be here.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 11:23 AM
You know KC, your issues with how things were run are 100% the result of your mindless Sinophilia.

What a load. My issues were related to your simultaneous martial incompetence and your change of overall policy to mean that you can judge whole styles based on your incompetence in the style you practice, nothing more. I NEVER once on the site supported bullshido schools, I was clear that I agreed with most on the JFS thing, even if the investigation itself was botched, but the reality is you are baiting traditionalists to come on without telling them that you and the children that you appoint on a whim to the staff will be investigating them for any transgression, martial or not, real or not, with NO standard of investigative process.


Everything else is just gravy tossed on the putrid meat of those issues to mask the stench.

Nice meaningless hyperbole.


It might fool you, but it doesn't fool anyone else.

Your assessment of what other people think is irrelevant. You don't even know your staff.


Your participation started in good faith, but became little more than the CMA version of the BJJ nutriding that got you so worked up in the first place.

Please cite one example of this. For the last several years on the board, I did nothing but administrative tasks. Most of the members are only familiar with me from this perspective. Care to lie again?


If you weren't such a sinophile, you might have had a shot at objectively seeing the merit in purging members who think that choreography is a more valid form of training than sparring.

What purge? You did incompetent investigations, flubbed those, and they left. Let's see, here's your brilliant plan:

I'm Phrost, and I could:

1) Name off a new policy of zero tolerance of kung fu, tell the members, and the ones who don't like it can leave, or...

2) Secretly make a zero tolerance policy for kung fu, don't tell the staff, mount the most inane "investigations" ever, force half the staff to run around doing damage control on them without having the common decency of telling them of the policy change, and then look EVEN TO MEMBERS THAT REMAINED like a moron.


But we know that's not the case, and your attachment to all things Chinese supercedes your ability to make rational judgements as to what's best for a website that fights for increased training standards in the Martial Arts.

Your the one with the house decorated like a set from a Bruce Lee flick. As for that goal, I never fought that, but I did fight irresponsibility and total investigative incompetence. And I still do.


I left you a voice mail by the way, which you apparently ignored.

Why would I be worried about a call from a someone who doesn't have the cojones to simply say "my new policy is cma is garbage, I know you pretty much defined how the staff is run, if you don't want in, then I understand"? Why would I care about a call from someone who can't LOSE FACE, and has to rephrase every argument so that those who don't agree with him are sinophiles and supporting JFS? Get a grip.


You're cordially invited to show up to the Throwdown we're having on the 27th.

You are cordially invited to either stop being a tomato can or stop thinking you are qualified to judge whole styles based on never having seen them. You used to run the site to fight the conduct of real abusers: now it's all about saving face and hanging out with your teenage sycophants- I mean Aesopian's sycophants.


As far as Rudy goes, he's an obsessive nutjob who's had issues with the idea of going after the status quo in the Martial Arts since day 1 of Bullshido. He is the status quo, with the resume padding, tacit approval of inflated ranks, and putting more importance on the appearance of techniques than their efficiency. ("MMA strikers are sloppy", for example).[/qoute]

Fine, prove it with a competent investigation.

[quote]If Gene didn't want Sam posting on this board, I'm sure he can handle it without your help.

I didn't ask Sam to leave, I merely pointed out that Bullshido politics was a game he didn't want to play with me. expletives, etc. editted out for content.

Boyd does a much better job of making fun of sinophiles.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 11:48 AM
And why bother bashing them here? Go bash them on Bullshido.


I was not bashing them, I was initially requesting that Sam, as someone who was familiar with the debacle that led me to leaving, would have the common decency to recognize that he was putting me in a spot by departing from merely hyping the investigation, and begin hyping the board, given the nature of my departure.

That Bullshido has a policy of considering all kung fu styles fraudulent is policy there, but it is not a listed policy, and by advertising here, Sam put me in a position where I can either say nothing and leave members here who may visit there unaware that they will be targetted for investigation based on style, or say something and risk an argument. Perhaps Sam forgot that I frequent here, and he likely never thought of it in those terms, but it still remains that that is the policy there, and the members get no warning.

Regardless, if you don't think this is useful information to your users, I understand, and I certainly will remember that it's your forum before I enter into another of Phrost's hyperbole matches.

Phrost
05-11-2006, 12:17 PM
Hey, cool. Coffee Girls has wifi. You work down here don't you? We should be having this conversation over coffee anyway, you dirty Sinophile. Let's see.


What a load. My issues were related to your simultaneous martial incompetence and your change of overall policy to mean that you can judge whole styles based on your incompetence in the style you practice, nothing more. I NEVER once on the site supported bullshido schools, I was clear that I agreed with most on the JFS thing, even if the investigation itself was botched, but the reality is you are baiting traditionalists to come on without telling them that you and the children that you appoint on a whim to the staff will be investigating them for any transgression, martial or not, real or not, with NO standard of investigative process.


The latter part of this diatribe is a valid criticism for which steps are being taken to ensure that forum discussions/arguments/poo-flinging-festivals do not spiral out of control again as they did in the case of the "Boxer Rebellion 05". In fact, you were initially a part of this process unless you forget.

As far as my individual skill level, you're welcome to come test it out at any time. I tried for a few years to get you to come by where I train, but schedule and other things always seemed to keep you from this. Besides, the comment that sparked most of my direct involvement in most of this issue was a simple response to dear old Rudy's ridiculous comment about MMA strikers being sloppy and I offered him a chance to prove his superior striking skills against a representative sample of the group he was criticizing.

But if you want to continue to be his patsy and fall for his attempts to dodge fighting a real "sloppy" MMA striker by making it about him and me, then go right ahead. I couldn't possibly think any less of you for it.



Please cite one example of this. For the last several years on the board, I did nothing but administrative tasks. Most of the members are only familiar with me from this perspective. Care to lie again?

Who's lying? You only ran away like a sniviling child when you thought we were on a jihad against all of CMA (as stated in one of your posts above, I believe). That was never the case, and if you had some intellectual fortitude, you'd admit it. We were going after crappy CMA people who thought that forms and compliant drilling were the be-all of training and who paid sideways lip-service to the concepts of aliveness and pressure testing one's skills that are the bedrock on which the site operates.

You know **** well Bullshido became nothing more than a social club with an inordinate amount of Martial LARPists while losing its best members. Whether or not you felt they were our best members is irrelevant as we've demonstrated your judgement is flawed and murky when it comes to discussing anything associated with the Chinese as you have way too much of your life invested in Sinophilia.



What purge? You did incompetent investigations, flubbed those, and they left. Let's see, here's your brilliant plan:

I'm Phrost, and I could:

1) Name off a new policy of zero tolerance of kung fu, tell the members, and the ones who don't like it can leave, or...

2) Secretly make a zero tolerance policy for kung fu, don't tell the staff, mount the most inane "investigations" ever, force half the staff to run around doing damage control on them without having the common decency of telling them of the policy change, and then look EVEN TO MEMBERS THAT REMAINED like a moron.


See how you demonstrate my point? PHROST HATES KUNG FU. PHROST MEAN. KC RUN AWAY.

I've stated more times than I can count, that San Shou is the shining beacon of the CMA and the opportunity for people who've done nothing but point sparring and forms demonstrations to test out where they need to improve. If the Shaolin monks can do San Shou, why can't the rest of CMA?

You simply don't like the fact that the Chinese Martial Arts are rife with corruption, and attract by the dozens, people who want to learn how to fight while avoiding actually fighting in the course of their training. Chi Sau, Push Hands, etc, for too many are as close as they get to sparring in many schools.

But in your world, this criticism must mean I hate Kung Fu, and everything Chinese, eh?



Your the one with the house decorated like a set from a Bruce Lee flick.

Guess not.



As for that goal, I never fought that, but I did fight irresponsibility and total investigative incompetence. And I still do.

Not sure how you're managing to do this, but I'd love to hear.



Why would I be worried about a call from a coward who doesn't have the cojones to simply say "my new policy is cma is garbage, I know you pretty much defined how the staff is run, if you don't want in, then I understand"? Why would I care about a call from some idiot who can't LOSE FACE, and has to rephrase every argument so that those who don't agree with him are sinophiles and supporting JFS? Get a grip.


The reason I call you a Sinophile is not because you speak Mandarin or practice Kung Fu. Those are ancillary to the issue that you're incapable of seeing the difference between making legitimate criticism that the CMAs deserve while pointing out the massive amount of effort needed to reform them due to having entirely too many LARPers involved in them, and thinking all of CMA is crap.

Again, not all of CMA is crap. Does this make you happy, or is it just lost on your RRRARrarrArRRR PHROST INSULTED OUR LAND brain-filter?



You are cordially invited to either stop being a tomato can or stop thinking you are qualified to judge whole styles based on never having seen them. You used to run the site to fight the conduct of real abusers: now it's all about saving face and hanging out with your teenage buddies.


I don't even have remotely enough time anymore to "hang out" on Bullshido, much less try to use it as my own social club. The fact that we had to purge people who thought it was supposed to be a social club where all points of view were equally valid, is again lost on you.

Again, where have I judged whole styles? For Wong's (Fei Hung) sake, I used to have "Individual > Training Method > Style" on a hotkey. Since the begining of Bullshido we've asked, begged, PLEADED for evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of the various approaches to training that are out there. And I haven't seen a single one that was successful in documented fights were the training consisted of the compliant partner drills and forms work that the majority of CMA schools employ for their training.

When you're painting something that's mostly a single color, there's nothing wrong with using broad strokes.



Fine, prove it with a competent investigation. Which means you will have nothing to do with it, since you have zero experience in it, never had much to do with it on the board, and only recently decided to jump in and play with the teenagers you seem to gush over.

Rudy Abel is no more deserving of applying resources towards investigating than Paulie Zink is. At some point, if we've got all the other hatches battened down, we might do something, but he's just some twit from CA that refuses to show up to Throwdowns in his area. Big deal. We're not going to go investigating Strangler or Kungfoolss either.

You're really hung up on teenagers aren't you?



I didn't ask Sam to leave, I merely pointed out that Bullshido politics was a game he didn't want to play with me, and the fact that you had to step in pretty much proves that. If you think staff members are eager to take flack for crap you mishandled, you simply do not know your staff.


No, you just came in here with your jing hanging out of your pants, frothing at the mouth because Sam dared to step into the territory you'd peed on.

I neither expect the staff to take flak for me, nor do I need to step in. I was browsing over here to see if Gene had found out about Bannon's busting when I found this thread.



And, since we're discussing it, what did you think when your own staff urged you not to fight Abel because they didn't think you could win? Have a nice one, enjoy the gong in your dining room and your habit of face saving, as well as your newfound fondness for acting as the guru for your teen groupies.

Can you provide a single instance of where I've inflated my fighting skills one bit? Seriously, because if I were that interested in saving face I wouldn't have an image macro with me getting my ass beat with the caption "BULLSHIDOWNED" stamped acrossed it, nor would I have put a picture of me getting facecranked by a Judo noob on the front page.

Nice strawman argument though. You can do better.

My sandwich is done, and thus I must return to more important pursuits. Your homework for the evening is to write this 50 times in your Wong Fe Hung Trapper Keeper: "Rational people can criticize the merits of certain CMAs despite not being a 20 year student of them, without thinking every martial art that came from China is garbage".

I expect it on my desk tomorrow.

SifuAbel
05-11-2006, 12:24 PM
Go bash them on Bullshido.



LOL, I can't. :rolleyes: Censorship is global.

SifuAbel
05-11-2006, 01:05 PM
Neal chiming in says it all. All one has to do is read his mental diareah to note his true ideal.

"Purging", "larpers". "sinophiles" . Its all very ammusing. Your words betray you.

So in your own words, you had to purge the site of people that had ideals of practice you didn't agree with. So which is it, you are anti- or not? In your own words you found that the MMA crowd started to leave because there were too many TMA people on the board. Because we all know its them that pay the rent.

So I( and a few others including ronin I might add) stated that we thought MMA punching/standup needs work. What did you do? You made a threat/challenge to have me fight in WEC with "just a couple of emails". So I said , "Ok how about you." "You and me in a cage." You ran off like a spanked girl. Stating, "You don't go to a throwdown, so you can't fight me." That doesn't make sense. You want me to go and fight REAL MAists before I fight(cream) you. In tournament circles you don't fight the BBs to get a shot at a yellow(belly) belt. Its the other way around. You are making it a personal issue to discredit. All I can say is go ahead, investigate away. All you'll find is my foot up your ass. Pretty please , come to my face and tell me that I am not credible, that I am not whom I say I am, that my MA doesn't work. I can guarantee you, you will know the truth THAT DAY.

Its funny how you practice a double standard of opinion. You can say anything about anyone with absolutely no expectation of accountability of you opinion. An opinion based on a relative beginners experience. Yet I have an opinion based on DECADES of experience but I have to go into a cage to prove it. Funny. I pick you.
If you're grown up enough to talk the talk then come over and walk the walk. And don't give me the travel excuse. You travel for a throwdown you can travel to be on T.V. And lets say I do show to a throwdown. Then what? What will your excuse be then? You are a wannbe tomato fat bald yellow pig riding the coat tails of the real deals. My "monkey" should be no challenge for you. It shouldn't work at all. That is what you're saying isn't it. My kung fu is no good. Come out and prove it.

Since when have I ever said that all you need is form? That you don't need to spar? That spin won;t work here.

My only crime is standing up to you. To dare say you are wrong. Or to dare say that things are not run right.

Maybe someone(the IRS) should investigate YOU. I mean really, all those crawler bots you count as guests can't be legal. Or you taking "donations" for services that you later take away.

And to answer sam. I really don't need to rifle through BS's posts to find some proof to post here. What for? I know BS tried to "mug' me. Neal knows it. I know it. This isn't a courtroom. And this will only be settled of the floor. If you REALLY want to know, Get your head out of your orifice and look for yourself. You obviously have the time.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 01:15 PM
Who's lying? You only ran away like a sniviling child when you thought we were on a jihad against all of CMA (as stated in one of your posts above, I believe). That was never the case, and if you had some intellectual fortitude, you'd admit it. We were going after crappy CMA people who thought that forms and compliant drilling were the be-all of training and who paid sideways lip-service to the concepts of aliveness and pressure testing one's skills that are the bedrock on which the site operates.

First, I never thought "we" were on a jihad agasint anything. Three staff members were the only ones backing the stuff I'm talking about, the rest were baffled by the conduct.

Second, if you were only going after crappy people, then why, when I asked you in front of the staff, and I'll paraphrase here "Are you making a defacto policy that all cma is bullshido, and what sense does that make given that the best fighters on the staff are kung fu guys?" You responded not by a denial, but by grilling Asia and Omega on whether they REALLY use kung fu, or more mma stuff. As I recall, you used the phrase "let's put everything on the table here." Also, as I recall, Asia and Omega ignored you.


You know **** well Bullshido became nothing more than a social club with an inordinate amount of Martial LARPists while losing its best members. Whether or not you felt they were our best members is irrelevant as we've demonstrated your judgement is flawed and murky when it comes to discussing anything associated with the Chinese as you have way too much of your life invested in Sinophilia.

Dude, it's a forum. It's STILL a social club of mma larpers. You lost Ronin, someone who has real skill, in order to gain who? Who was leaving that either didn't leave, or is a larper anyway?


I've stated more times than I can count, that San Shou is the shining beacon of the CMA and the opportunity for people who've done nothing but point sparring and forms demonstrations to test out where they need to improve. If the Shaolin monks can do San Shou, why can't the rest of CMA?

Which is meaningless when you also establish a defacto policy that kung fu is fraud.


You simply don't like the fact that the Chinese Martial Arts are rife with corruption, and attract by the dozens, people who want to learn how to fight while avoiding actually fighting in the course of their training. Chi Sau, Push Hands, etc, for too many are as close as they get to sparring in many schools.

I have not only stated this before meeting you, but never denied or countered it.


Those are ancillary to the issue that you're incapable of seeing the difference between making legitimate criticism that the CMAs deserve while pointing out the massive amount of effort needed to reform them due to having entirely too many LARPers involved in them, and thinking all of CMA is crap.

Perhaps what I'm capable of seeing the difference in is when you say publically "I'm not against kung fu, two of the best fighters in staff do kung fu", and when you, behind closed doors, say "Asia, Omega, you don't really fight with kung fu, do you?" Let's put it all on the table.


Again, not all of CMA is crap. Does this make you happy, or is it just lost on your RRRARrarrArRRR PHROST INSULTED OUR LAND brain-filter?

Since I know you don't believe that statement, I'll not bother further with it.


I don't even have remotely enough time anymore to "hang out" on Bullshido, much less try to use it as my own social club. The fact that we had to purge people who thought it was supposed to be a social club where all points of view were equally valid, is again lost on you.

The fact that the point of view that is most valid now is revisionism and some weird mma larper's dream is lost on you.


Again, where have I judged whole styles?

"You don't REALLY fight using kung fu, do you?"


Since the begining of Bullshido we've asked, begged, PLEADED for evidence to demonstrate the effectiveness of the various approaches to training that are out there. And I haven't seen a single one that was successful in documented fights were the training consisted of the compliant partner drills and forms work that the majority of CMA schools employ for their training.

Omega? See, this is how quickly you revise your history. You haven't seen one demonstrate, oh wait, I've seen two, oh wait, Omega does a ground form, look over there[flees bad argument]...


When you're painting something that's mostly a single color, there's nothing wrong with using broad strokes.

And that's a great way to rephrase criticism that was initially friendly, but not what you wanted to discuss: since JFS and KC both disagree with me, it's like they're the same. Impressive argumentation.


Rudy Abel is no more deserving of applying resources towards investigating than Paulie Zink is. At some point, if we've got all the other hatches battened down, we might do something, but he's just some twit from CA that refuses to show up to Throwdowns in his area. Big deal. We're not going to go investigating Strangler or Kungfoolss either.

What, trying to find out who else is using dating services? Interrogating kickcatcher for two more weeks without a clue what you're looking for?


No, you just came in here with your jing hanging out of your pants, frothing at the mouth because Sam dared to step into the territory you'd peed on.

Sam knew your real position on cma, posted an ad for the site here, and while none of it was Sam's fault, what happened happened. I'm not gonnna pretend that your position is your new revised position when I know otherwise, and I'm not gonna let you attract members from here without letting them know that being a cma practitioner or teacher gives them reduced priveledges and attracts amateur investigations that will get full support from the site regardless of how botched or irresponsible they become.


I neither expect the staff to take flak for me, nor do I need to step in.




Can you provide a single instance of where I've inflated my fighting skills one bit? Seriously, because if I were that interested in saving face I wouldn't have an image macro with me getting my ass beat with the caption "BULLSHIDOWNED" stamped acrossed it, nor would I have put a picture of me getting facecranked by a Judo noob on the front page.

That picture was classic, and was you at your best, but more recently, you have stated that you are qualified to judge whole styles, and that would assume you have some expertise in fighting.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 01:28 PM
Sam, I fully recognize that I came heavy at you, and I apologize. I understand that these issues that we're discussing are neither ones you supported, or ones you took a part in, and I know that you had no mean intent in coming on here plugging Bullshido. I hope you can understand the reasons I couldn't let that slide, and I will pray for you every day you have to work for Phrost and his most recent teen appointees. My best advice for you is to confuse them with cultural references from anytime before 1992.

Also, has Phrost been imitating Boyd's "sinophile" bit for long? Is there any chance we could simply get the real Boyd, or is he busy consulting with Aesopian on how to run their website?

GeneChing
05-11-2006, 02:00 PM
There's always a way around censorship. Perhaps that's not the wisest advice for a forum admin to be dispensing at this point, but when it comes to forums, banning and censorship are really only token gestures. You don't have to be a webmaster to get around them. That being said, if you all want to continue to duke it out here, that's fine with me. Just keep it clean, no biting or eye gouging (it's too late for blows beneath the belt). Being a publisher, I firmly beleive in the freedom of speech, so our censorship is really only based on trying to keep this a family show.

KC Elbows
05-11-2006, 03:06 PM
Just keep it clean, no biting or eye gouging (it's too late for blows beneath the belt).

Bullshido members don't own belts, that would keep them from looking cool in their low slung gangsta pants when they hit the mall.

Phrost
05-11-2006, 03:18 PM
Oh hey, pictures!

The view of living room from my couch on:

http://www.bullshido.net/gallery/data/500/medium/pict00664.jpg

Yours truly, desperately trying to save face:

http://www.bullshido.net/images/bullshidowned.jpg

I'll try to read the rest of the thread if I have time. Just wanted to add these for reference since they were brought up.

Phrost
05-11-2006, 03:33 PM
Ok, nevermind. Went backed and skimmed your response. It amazes me that you're so quick to betray confidences when you've always been the one who didn't want private details about yourself put out for public consumption. I guess you just have so much invested in your beliefs that they're more important to you than seeing things rationally.

There's no point in discussing the issue with you when you're in sheer denial about my point of view. I don't run a cranial-rectal seperation service, so I can't help you correct your perspective. You're either intentionally misrepresenting those private discussions (the point being made was that Asia and Omega refined their CMA skills through pressure testing them in competition where many/most CMAists don't), or were just in such an emotional state that your reading comprehension went to hell. Either way, if you chose to be willfully ignorant then I can't stop you. Just know that you really are wrong.

Maybe when you get over your issues you'll be able to go back and see this.

Again. CMArtists that fight: good for CMA. CMArtists that theorize, postulate, fantasize, or perform choreography at the expense of developing fighting skills: bad for CMA. And we don't want the latter on Bullshido as anything other than comic fodder.

It's a pretty simple position. Only someone that's intellectually challenged, or disingenuous would try to misunderstand or misrepresent it.

GeneChing
05-11-2006, 04:05 PM
Obviously I've been missing that market. (http://www.martialartsmart.net/Ranking_Belts.html) :p

At this point, if this little flame war gets bigger than our squirrel fu thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4619), I'll be very amused.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:17 PM
I was not bashing them, I was initially requesting that Sam, as someone who was familiar with the debacle that led me to leaving, would have the common decency to recognize that he was putting me in a spot by departing from merely hyping the investigation, and begin hyping the board, given the nature of my departure.

That Bullshido has a policy of considering all kung fu styles fraudulent is policy there, but it is not a listed policy, and by advertising here, Sam put me in a position where I can either say nothing and leave members here who may visit there unaware that they will be targetted for investigation based on style, or say something and risk an argument. Perhaps Sam forgot that I frequent here, and he likely never thought of it in those terms, but it still remains that that is the policy there, and the members get no warning.

Regardless, if you don't think this is useful information to your users, I understand, and I certainly will remember that it's your forum before I enter into another of Phrost's hyperbole matches.

Without getting too ornery, I was posting on the thread over here about Bannon approximately a year and a half before you left Bullshido. I generally don't decide whether or not to post on a board by anticipating what a former Bullshido member will think or not think about my presence. If you had wanted to work out some deal before you left, then I'd take your feelings into consdideration, but since this didn't happen I think you are being a bit sensitive about my presence.

I didn't post here about Bullshido in general and my comments concerned one project. While I could see your need to bring up these subjects if I was tossing out lines in the article like "CMAers Join the Bullshido Investigation squad now" I didn't open up such issues. I really disagree that I put you in a particular position.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:21 PM
Sam, I fully recognize that I came heavy at you, and I apologize. I understand that these issues that we're discussing are neither ones you supported, or ones you took a part in, and I know that you had no mean intent in coming on here plugging Bullshido. I hope you can understand the reasons I couldn't let that slide, and I will pray for you every day you have to work for Phrost and his most recent teen appointees. My best advice for you is to confuse them with cultural references from anytime before 1992.

Also, has Phrost been imitating Boyd's "sinophile" bit for long? Is there any chance we could simply get the real Boyd, or is he busy consulting with Aesopian on how to run their website?

Actually of all the people on Bullshido I don't think Boyd is going for political power. He's always been more interested in his comedy routines, yes, even the ones that drove me up the wall.

Samuel Browning
05-11-2006, 10:43 PM
"And to answer sam. I really don't need to rifle through BS's posts to find some proof to post here. What for? I know BS tried to "mug' me. Neal knows it. I know it. This isn't a courtroom. And this will only be settled of the floor. If you REALLY want to know, Get your head out of your orifice and look for yourself. You obviously have the time."

You are right that this is not a courtroom. But first you accuse Anthony of giving you a raw deal and mistating facts, and then when you expect me to argue the point I asked for the links. Since you previously had time to make about 300 to 400 posts on Bullshido attacking Phrost its reasonable to expect you to dig up such info if you want me to stand in for Anthony. If you don't want to, its your problem.

And, while I'm sure you can pick up a phone and complain to the IRS, after seeing a copy of all your posts, I doubt they would take your complaint seriously. Unless I'm missing something, you would have to show that Phrost was not paying taxes on any income he received from the site, not that he put you on global ignore after you went after him repeatedly. Yes, I'm sure the IRS wants to get into the middle of the argument considering whether Phrost did you wrong. Its not like they are currently understaffed or anything.

If you had gone after Debbie Reynolds over at Map, the way you went after Phrost you would have been banned in two days, perhaps three tops, and in terms of banning and "sin binning" MAP is pretty close to the standard in terms of martial arts moderation. You just want to be angry about something.

KC Elbows
05-12-2006, 01:54 AM
Without getting too ornery, I was posting on the thread over here about Bannon approximately a year and a half before you left Bullshido.

I was responding to posts well after I left, quite recent posts, but again, the degree of my initial response to you was not characteristic of my opinions of you, but of the Bullshido policy against cma as based on the premise that our tomato can friend is ultimate arbiter of style, his claim, not mine.

True, I've been rough with the admin section details, though the only one I considered truly rude, the comment on Phrost's chances against Rudy, I edited out before Phrost's reply, but not early enough; regardless, I'm not gonna waste time apologizing for situations he enjoys creating.

And again, it's not your presence here I object to at all, it's pitching the site to the people who will get the rawest deal on it, regardless of Phrost attempting to spin "You don't really use kung fu to fight" to mean "You really use kung fu to fight, as informed by mma practices", which is pretty much demonstrably bullcrap. If he meant one, why say the other? Because he didn't mean anything but the first, obviously.

Since the means I have to prove my point happens to be Admin information and BlackBeltClub info, and since the staff lacks the power to rein in Phrost's excesses, that is what I will use, just as Phrost will use everyone else's ignorance of those topics for his advantage.

Again, I have nothing against you being here whatsoever, you deserve to hang at a decent forum for a while, I will simply be putting disclaimers on all your Bullshido plugs for the benefit of the members here who don't already know the truth. I'll keep it clean, but I'll keep it on target as well.

As for Boyd, I was not saying he WANTS to run a site or play political games, just that he can do it at one site at will. And that six month Boyd ban you were talking about: please, stop. That hurt you to say more than me to read. Think of yourself.

KC Elbows
05-12-2006, 04:01 AM
As to Phrost's accusation that I am betraying confidences, I have divulged no one's personal information, and Phrost has not, himself, maintained confindentiality in regards to another previous staff member's private words to him, a member who tried to leave on the most amicable of terms and had his private words twisted by Phrost to support the anti-tma spin he was going for to the membership.

Confidentiality, in this case, is only a mutual agreement, nothing more; in this case, said confidentiality would serve as an excuse for Phrost to say "I don't have a policy against chinese martial arts", which is what he says in public while in private he says "Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY fight with kung fu, do ya?"

It's okay, Phrost, you don't have to like kung fu. You can admit it. I mean, really, you've known Asia for what, five years, and you're still not sure what style he does, or simply can't accept it?:D

Phrost
05-12-2006, 08:17 AM
As to Phrost's accusation that I am betraying confidences, I have divulged no one's personal information, and Phrost has not, himself, maintained confindentiality in regards to another previous staff member's private words to him, a member who tried to leave on the most amicable of terms and had his private words twisted by Phrost to support the anti-tma spin he was going for to the membership.

Confidentiality, in this case, is only a mutual agreement, nothing more; in this case, said confidentiality would serve as an excuse for Phrost to say "I don't have a policy against chinese martial arts", which is what he says in public while in private he says "Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY fight with kung fu, do ya?"

It's okay, Phrost, you don't have to like kung fu. You can admit it. I mean, really, you've known Asia for what, five years, and you're still not sure what style he does, or simply can't accept it?:D

Let's see, Asia has studied:

Judo
JJJ
BJJ
US Army Combatives (BJJ derrived)
Baji
Xingyi
Boxing
Kickboxing
"MMA" (not a style)

And a slew of other things.

The point you fail to get is that he constantly pressure tests all of his experience and uses only what is effective. You refuse to accept that Mixed Martial Arts is nothing more than a rulest under which MARTIAL ARTISTS compete to test their skills against another opponent. You seem to be intellectually incapable of processing this and incorporating it into your entrenched paradigms about MA.

Instead, MMA to you is Mongolia, and you've built a great wall in your head to keep the bad MMA-ers out. This is exactly the same intentional misunderstanding that's used by those guilty of bullshido to support their excuses as to why they don't have to pressure test their skills in limited rules combat.

So instead, you think that because I want all CMArtists to do this kind of pressure testing and quality control, that I must hate all the CMArts stand for. This is provides a great window into your head, because it clearly shows that deep down, you don't feel Kung Fu is about fighting. Why should it have to prove itself?

KC Elbows
05-12-2006, 10:10 AM
Let's see, Asia has studied:

Judo
JJJ
BJJ
US Army Combatives (BJJ derrived)
Baji
Xingyi
Boxing
Kickboxing
"MMA" (not a style)

And a slew of other things.

The point you fail to get is that he constantly pressure tests all of his experience and uses only what is effective.

Don't fail to get that at all, nice dodge, though.


You refuse to accept that Mixed Martial Arts is a rulest under which MARTIAL ARTISTS compete to test their skills against another opponent. You seem to be intellectually incapable of processing this and incorporating it into your entrenched paradigms about MA.

That's odd, I've got a ground fighting workshop I'm going to in three weeks, I think it'll be the eighth in the last two years. I enjoy doing knife work, and while I wouldn't call myself expert at all the things I do, I keep at them when I have time, time being the main limiting factor, not an unwillingness to pressure test. But, of course, you really would have no clue what I do with my time, as you already admitted, so thanks for making up one more element of your assessment of me.

[/quote]Instead, MMA to you is Mongolia, and you've built a great wall in your head to keep the bad MMA-ers out. This is exactly the same intentional misunderstanding that's used by those guilty of bullshido to support their excuses as to why they don't have to pressure test their skills in limited rules combat.[/quote]

And in which posts have I done all this? All over, or only when I happen to disagree with you?


So instead, you think that because I want all CMArtists to do this kind of pressure testing and quality control, that I must hate all the CMArts stand for. This is provides a great window into your head, because it clearly shows that deep down, you don't feel Kung Fu is about fighting. Why should it have to prove itself?

Or, the source could be your own statement. You honestly believed, for that shining moment, that Asia and Omega don't use kung fu to fight, and they let ya down. Let's review it again:

Hey Phrost, are you trying to establish a defacto policy that cma is bullshido, and what sense does that make, given that two of the best fighters on staff are kung fu guys?

PHROST: Asia, Omega, you guys don't really use kung fu to fight, do ya?

Yes, clearly all you were asking for was them to confirm that they "pressure test", you weren't hoping they'd say "well, no, Phrost, we only beat people down with what you showed us, we call it oompa loompa fist, and it's the greatest!"

IF your new revised position was actually what you believed, and the policy matched that philosophy(as it did the ENTIRE time I was running your site for you, aside from you and a few busybodies crying about trolls most lent very little credence to anyway), then of course, you'd have a point.

But, since that's not AT ALL what you believe, you're simply rewording the same disingenuine post you already made. As I said, I'm not going to bother arguing as though each public front you put forward is what you actually believe.

You believe that all kung fu is bullshido, you made an awkward attempt to implement this as policy, you embroiled two former staff members in that clumsy attempt, completely burning your bridges with one by using his statements as your political football, and annoying me with the same conduct aimed towards me enough that I decided it wasn't worth the headache of covering for your fumbles anymore.

You flat out do not believe a word of what you're posting to me here. You know it, I know it, it's just your latest pep squad speech so you can make your crowd feel special.

Me: Phrost, are you trying to implement a defacto policy that all cma are bullshido? What sense does that make, given the two best fighters on staff are kung fu guys?

Phrost(pleadingly): Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY use kung fu to fight, do you?

No matter how you cut it, that statement in response equates to your latest post being more bull.

Here, let's do that again:

Phrost, to the membership: How can I be against cma, two of my staff members are kung fu fighters.

Phrost, privately, to those same exact two fighters: Asia, Omega, you don't REALLY use kung fu to fight, do you?

Again:

To the members: Come on, I'm not against kung fu, I've supported san shou a million times.

In private: You don't REALLY...

Again, it falls seriously short of supporting a single one of your revisions on what you actually meant, and continuously supports what I'm saying. You're lying, and we both know it.

The Willow Sword
05-12-2006, 03:08 PM
SHUT UP AND TRAIN!!;) .



















hehe ive always wanted to post that in long winded threads, since ive had it done to ME in the past. by all means continue fellas:D

As Always,,TWS

GeneChing
05-12-2006, 03:33 PM
We're still 103...oops, make that 102, posts behind squirrel fu.

Samuel Browning
05-14-2006, 06:29 PM
At the risk of further tilting at windmills I would invite people to review the text of the article I wrote. Bullshido was only mentioned twice.

Once as the place where the original Bannon investigation could be found. This is highly relevant. Shouldn't I tell people where they can find proof of my assertions? Oh well, maybe not, because doing so is an "Ad for Bullshido", I always thought it was part of backing up one's argument.

Secondly, my staff affiliation was mentioned because it was relevant, this investigation simply didn't materialize out of nowhere. Leaving it out of the piece would have been deceptive.

Nowhere in the article was there a recruiting pitch for Bullshido, or an exortation to come join us. If someone wants to visit and review our open sections, thats great. There is no charge and you don't have to register or provide a name. Make up your own mind as to whether we are anti-CMA, and whether what we do is worthwhile. Heck, visit MAP, Sherdog, or TMA as well if you want to make a comparison, find out what you enjoy.

Otherwise we are stuck in an argument between Phrost and KC and Rudy and myself which must seem rather baffling to the outsider. Did Boyd, get a nine month ban or a six month ban? Was this part of the CMA falling out between those mentioned above? No, actually he was banned for other reasons and it was from February through December of 2005.

I'm heading out for a business trip to California so I won't have internet access for a couple of weeks, but I think that people here are intelligent enough to come to their own conclusions, though whenever someone mentions Bullshido over here in the future it appears they've just earned themselves a longwinded argument for why Bullshido has an anti-CMA policy, when the truth is more complex and heavily rooted in training methods, and previous personal conflict.

SifuAbel
05-15-2006, 12:32 AM
I find it funny how Neal's pressure testing arguement is railed against two people (JFS and myself) that are the staunchest advocates for hard contact fighting. Whats next? Are you going to say white people aren't white enough because they didn't show to your throwdown? Of which, you didn't either, not at least to any throwdown I might have attended.

Its all blah blah blah.


"Again. CMArtists that fight: good for CMA. CMArtists that theorize, postulate, fantasize, or perform choreography at the expense of developing fighting skills: bad for CMA. And we don't want the latter on Bullshido as anything other than comic fodder."

And who might that be, me? You wanna find out if your mental masterbation is more that just deluded drivel? Here's a hint, start pre-lubing your corn hole now. 'Cause if you ever do have the misfortune of crossing my path... well.... no need to draw a picture.

SifuAbel
05-15-2006, 12:35 AM
Did Boyd, get a nine month ban or a six month ban? Was this part of the CMA falling out between those mentioned above? No, actually he was banned for other reasons and it was from February through December of 2005.

I'm heading out for a business trip to California so I won't have internet access for a couple of weeks


Did boyd have an alter ego for all that time. I don't have the resources to prove it. But many here know the truth already.


Coming out to Riverside any time soon?

SifuAbel
05-15-2006, 12:42 AM
If you had gone after Debbie Reynolds over at Map, the way you went after Phrost you would have been banned in two days, perhaps three tops, and in terms of banning and "sin binning" MAP is pretty close to the standard in terms of martial arts moderation. You just want to be angry about something.

Somehow, I don't think MAP would give me reason for going after anybody. Most of the time whe somebody from BS gets banned at MAP its because they were being sanctamonious little "BS correct" nazi ******woods.

You what the the real threat TMA has on Neal's mind? The threat that BS folks will get together on another forum that doesn't have an aesopian, a shumagorath, a boyd or an osirus AND LIKE IT.

Samuel Browning
05-15-2006, 01:07 AM
Did boyd have an alter ego for all that time. I don't have the resources to prove it. But many here know the truth already.


Coming out to Riverside any time soon?

I'll be in Sunnyvale, is that close by?

Samuel Browning
05-15-2006, 01:14 AM
I find it funny how Neal's pressure testing arguement is railed against two people (JFS and myself) that are the staunchest advocates for hard contact fighting. Whats next? Are you going to say white people aren't white enough because they didn't show to your throwdown? Of which, you didn't either, not at least to any throwdown I might have attended.

Its all blah blah blah.


"Again. CMArtists that fight: good for CMA. CMArtists that theorize, postulate, fantasize, or perform choreography at the expense of developing fighting skills: bad for CMA. And we don't want the latter on Bullshido as anything other than comic fodder."

And who might that be, me? You wanna find out if your mental masterbation is more that just deluded drivel? Here's a hint, start pre-lubing your corn hole now. 'Cause if you ever do have the misfortune of crossing my path... well.... no need to draw a picture.

I really don't understand your use of that racially based analogy above. And you attended a throwdown? Its news to me, I thought someone else on the board was complaining that you didn't come down to visit their throwdown in California. The throwdown I went to was in Boston. Ming Loyalist will confirm I was there.

Samuel Browning
05-15-2006, 01:21 AM
Somehow, I don't think MAP would give me reason for going after anybody. Most of the time whe somebody from BS gets banned at MAP its because they were being sanctamonious little "BS correct" nazi ******woods.

You what the the real threat TMA has on Neal's mind? The threat that BS folks will get together on another forum that doesn't have an aesopian, a shumagorath, a boyd or an osirus AND LIKE IT.

Then go look at the present thread concerning criticism of the Map meet, in which some duel Bullshido/Map members got banned for raising questions concerning the techniques that were shown at this MAP meet and most were not misbehaving themselves. I'm still trying to figure out what you mean in your last sentence. Sometimes the English language is not your friend Rudy.

And as long as you and your personality is over at TMA I don't think Bullshido will have that problem. :)

dwid
05-15-2006, 04:55 AM
I'll be in Sunnyvale, is that close by?

I would avoid Riverside if I were you. I grew up in Riverside County, and there ain't much that would make me go back there. It's a real sh!thole, FYI.

GeneChing
05-15-2006, 09:58 AM
Samuel, if you have the time, you must drop by our offices. I'd be happy to give you a personal tour of our facilities. Fremont is about 20 mins north of Sunnyvale. Let me know when you hit town and we can arrange schedules.

Also, I must interject that our e-zine article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=656)was definitely not an ad for Bullshido. When the Bannon case first broke, I contacted Samuel about the possibility of doing something for our e-zine. He had already posted his research on Bullshido, and we make an effort here to only publish fresh, exclusive material, so I requested that Samuel cook something up that could give our situation more closure. I fully expected him to reference his Bullshido posts (and even linked to them myself above). Note also that I seldom ever request an article so specific liek this from a freelance writer, especially one that I haven't worked with before, but this was a special case. I felt Sameul not only met the requirements of my request, he exceeded them. In fact, had the roles been reversed, I'd have probably plugged KungFuMagazine.com far more over there then Samuel plugged Bullshido over here (but I make my living here, so I'm always working it - car's in the shop again and bills gotta be paid...) Anyway, if the article was an ad for Bullshido, they would have paid for it (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/about/advertise.php). ;)

SifuAbel
05-16-2006, 01:21 PM
I really don't understand your use of that racially based analogy above. And you attended a throwdown? Its news to me, I thought someone else on the board was complaining that you didn't come down to visit their throwdown in California. The throwdown I went to was in Boston. Ming Loyalist will confirm I was there.

Ugh!! Don't be a little whiney biatch. I was refering to Neal not being in attendance to any california throwdowns.

Which brings me to another point. Throwdowns don't mean anything. I'm not likely to meet my detractors there. So far the CA guys have been pretty cool. Also, JFS ORGANIZED and hosted throwdowns and was given a general thumbs up. But that didn't stop the kiddies on your board from wizzing lemon juice all over it.

And no, unfortunatley, sunnyvale is not near here.

SifuAbel
05-16-2006, 01:23 PM
I would avoid Riverside if I were you. I grew up in Riverside County, and there ain't much that would make me go back there. It's a real sh!thole, FYI.

A lot has changed in the past few years. Riverside, Corona, Norco, Rancho Cucamonga are fast becomeing the new orange county. Its been growing 25% per year since 2001.

dwid
05-16-2006, 03:02 PM
Yeah, and the air quality in Riverside Co. is some of the poorest in the state. Gang activity has been consistently increasing (or at least was as of a few years ago when the last of my relatives left).

When I think of Riverside, I think of all the things I dislike about SoCal. Rude people, bad air, dry heat, barren landscape.

Someday all of SoCal will be one giant stripmall that begins just south of San Francisco and extends all the way to the Mexican border.

Just my opinion.

And not to cast any aspersions, but I think living in the valley in Riverside County (Hemet in particular) is toxic to the soul. Everyone I know who has left there, their attitude improved, their lives started to get more on track, the drama fell away, and they just seem healthier, less angry, etc...

I love the West coast, but I would never live south of the bay area again, nor would I recommend it to anyone I care about.

SifuAbel
05-16-2006, 04:21 PM
Bay area? When I lived there it seemed exactly like the south park episode.

dwid
05-16-2006, 04:32 PM
Bay area? When I lived there it seemed exactly like the south park episode.

Well, I have my issues with SF proper, but that area is the lower boundary of where I'd be willing to live. At least the air is clean.

My preference is substantially further north, like the last 60 miles or so before you hit Oregon. A little conservative politically, but mostly the better side of conservative (as in closer to Libertarian than to Fundy Christian). People mind their own business for the most part.

KC Elbows
05-17-2006, 11:26 AM
Samuel, if you have the time, you must drop by our offices. I'd be happy to give you a personal tour of our facilities. Fremont is about 20 mins north of Sunnyvale. Let me know when you hit town and we can arrange schedules.

Also, I must interject that our e-zine article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=656)was definitely not an ad for Bullshido. When the Bannon case first broke, I contacted Samuel about the possibility of doing something for our e-zine. He had already posted his research on Bullshido, and we make an effort here to only publish fresh, exclusive material, so I requested that Samuel cook something up that could give our situation more closure. I fully expected him to reference his Bullshido posts (and even linked to them myself above). Note also that I seldom ever request an article so specific liek this from a freelance writer, especially one that I haven't worked with before, but this was a special case. I felt Sameul not only met the requirements of my request, he exceeded them. In fact, had the roles been reversed, I'd have probably plugged KungFuMagazine.com far more over there then Samuel plugged Bullshido over here (but I make my living here, so I'm always working it - car's in the shop again and bills gotta be paid...) Anyway, if the article was an ad for Bullshido, they would have paid for it (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/about/advertise.php). ;)

I was not suggesting that the article was an ad for Bullshido, nor that people who like Bullshido would be subject to anything here. My comments were related to posts made, and I've shared what I am aware of. The article was good work, I have repeatedly said so here.

Past that, this thread will never match the squirrel kung fu thread.

SifuAbel
05-19-2006, 12:25 PM
I just realized why I was put on Global ignore instead of being banned from Bullshido. Its so people like anthony can make comments about me and make it seem like I won't answer instead not being able to as if I were banned. Typical image spin.

GeneChing
05-19-2006, 03:22 PM
Samuel stopped by the office here this morning and we had a delightful time shooting the bull ;) It's always nice to meet members face to face.

SifuAbel
05-19-2006, 10:20 PM
Don't forget to bleach his seat after he leaves. And wash your hands.

unkokusai
05-20-2006, 04:33 PM
All I can say is go ahead, investigate away. All you'll find is my foot up your ass. Pretty please , come to my face and tell me that I am not credible, that I am not whom I say I am, that my MA doesn't work. I can guarantee you, you will know the truth THAT DAY.



hahahahaaahahahhahaaaaa! This guy is a riot!

I bit heavy on the JFS imitation, but at least he's trying. :rolleyes:


Too funny.

Samuel Browning
05-25-2006, 11:22 PM
Don't forget to bleach his seat after he leaves. And wash your hands.

Nope, I cleaned the monkey poo you threw at me off before I went to Gene's office. And for what its worth, it was your never-ending monologue of @#$% Phrost posts that got you put on ignore.

GeneChing
05-26-2006, 09:11 AM
Samuel was neat and clean when he visited. No monkey-poo. BTW, Samuel, don't forget to forward me that stuff on....NH was it?

Samuel Browning
05-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Samuel was neat and clean when he visited. No monkey-poo. BTW, Samuel, don't forget to forward me that stuff on....NH was it?

Hi Gene:

I just sent you the links via an e-mail. I do have to say that I was disappointed to find that the "Got Qi?" models were not at your office. Did the Iron Crotch guy get them? :p

SifuAbel
06-10-2006, 11:22 AM
And for what its worth, it was your never-ending monologue of @#$% Phrost posts that got you put on ignore.

Pft, I've been doing that for years. Whats so different now? what a vagina..... :rolleyes:

GeneChing
06-26-2006, 03:35 PM
My disciple bro, Xingda, sent me this link to a Bannon story (http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/columnists/tommy_tomlinson/14897513.htm).


The man who lied about everything
TOMMY TOMLINSON

David Race Bannon has two lives. The one he told everybody about. And the one everybody else tells about him.

He said he got the scar on his back from being stabbed in a Korean riot.

His ex-wife says he got it from a kidney operation.

He said he led a 1998 raid on the Florida branch of a worldwide child-prostitution ring, rescuing an 8-year-old girl and killing one of her kidnappers with a knife to the throat.

Investigators say he was teaching computer classes at a community college in Raleigh.

He filled a book with tales of two decades as a secret agent and assassin for Interpol, the international police force.

He gave TV, radio and newspaper interviews detailing his adventures.

He was invited to speak far from his Charlotte home on how to battle sex traffickers and child pornographers.

This week in a Colorado courtroom, prosecutors plan to show that David Race Bannon made it all up.

All the way down to his name.

That name might ring a bell if you watch cartoons. Race Bannon was the dashing government agent on the '60s show "Jonny Quest."

The cartoon Race Bannon was a self-defense expert, skilled with weapons, a trusted operative.

A hero.

Everything that David Race Bannon -- born David Wayne Dilley -- apparently is not.

continued next post

GeneChing
06-26-2006, 03:37 PM
Telling the real story

Bannon, who's 43, is due in court Thursday. If anybody knows where he is, nobody's telling.

He moved from his last known Charlotte address. His last known phone number is disconnected. His lawyer in Colorado wouldn't comment on the case or on Bannon's whereabouts.

Bannon did show up in court two months ago. That's when he pleaded guilty to one count of criminal impersonation -- a low-level felony -- in Jefferson County, Colo., just outside Denver.

He said nothing at his plea hearing except to answer the judge.

At the sentencing, prosecutors don't plan to ask for jail time. Prosecutor Dennis Hall told the Rocky Mountain News that he'll ask the judge to fine Bannon based on income from his book and speaking engagements.

The main goal is to air his story in public so he won't have a chance to con anybody else.

Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent Bob Brown puts it this way: "The only thing that we want to do is expose Bannon."

One speaking engagement Bannon landed was at the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police academy.

Police Chief Darrel Stephens said Saturday that the department invited Bannon to the academy "at least six months to a year ago."

But somebody called to say police should check into Bannon's background, Stephens said.

The department canceled the speech.

Colorado agents arrested Bannon in January. According to their application for an arrest warrant, they'd heard he was offering himself as an expert in human trafficking. The state of Colorado recently created a task force on the same subject.

So Brown posed as a coordinator with the task force and called Bannon to ask what kind of training he'd suggest. According to court papers, Bannon e-mailed back, offering to do a two-day seminar for $3,000 plus expenses.

He didn't know the bureau already had a file on him.

In 2005, Interpol sent the Colorado bureau a message warning that Bannon was a phony. The message said Bannon had appeared in the area and had done media interviews.

It also mentioned the book Bannon wrote in Charlotte: "Race Against Evil: The Secret Missions of the Interpol Agent Who Tracked the World's Most Sinister Criminals -- A Real-life Drama."

The message concluded: "The claims in Mr. Bannon's book can only be seen as deceptive and irresponsible fantasy."

Facts and fiction

This is what Interpol calls fantasy. This is what Bannon wrote as his life story.The doorman was tall and overweight, but surprisingly nimble. He drew a Heckler & Koch Mark 23 .45 ACP pistol from a mid-back belt-slide holster. I blocked his weapon with my left forearm and, thrusting my body forward, crossed my knife hand over my shoulder and drove the blade down into his throat.

And:

I slammed my left hand into his extended elbow, sliding my hand to his wrist and pushing down. His body followed the downward motion. I swung the baton on the back of his neck. He fell and I swung again. And again.

There are 121 reviews of "Race Against Evil" on Amazon.com, and 112 reviewers give it five stars.

It's a good read.

Bannon is a young Mormon missionary who gets caught in a Korean student uprising. He kills an attacker -- the one who gave him the scar on his back -- and ends up in prison. Interpol recruits him at 19. He's assigned to Archangel, a project targeting the worldwide sex trade.

He becomes a "cleaner." His mission is not to bring in the child pornographers and sex traffickers. His mission is to kill them.

In real life, he's 5-11, 155 pounds, thinning up top. He looks like a guy who might manage a grocery store. But readers saw a noble knight.

One of the Amazon.com reviewers wrote: "It was difficult to tear myself away from this book. Even when I was at work, the author's humility and convictions stayed with me."

The book came out in 2003, and Bannon got noticed. He did book signings, radio talk shows, newspaper interviews. The Observer did an article that took his story at face value. We followed up with a piece noting that Interpol said he was a fraud.

At the time, Bannon replied: "It is reasonable to expect any clandestine organization to deny an exposé of its operations."

In other words: Of course they're not going to TELL you I was a secret agent.

But something else makes Bannon's adventures unlikely.

His wife at the time says she was with him, here in the States, living an ordinary life.

`He wants to be special'

Susan Schneider has remarried and lives in South Carolina now. She doesn't want to rake her ex over the coals. They have a daughter together. And Susan doesn't think David is well.

But she talked a little to the Colorado investigators, and she talks a little to me.

She met David Dilley in 1983 at Brigham Young University. They married in 1985 and moved to Washington state.

In 1988, according to Bannon's old Web site, he was a translator for the U.S. Olympic volleyball team in Seoul.

That summer, Schneider says, the two of them were caretakers for a mortuary in Spokane.

She says her husband obsessed over comic books, especially ones that featured superheroes.

He also longed to be a writer.

In 1990, she says, he decided Dilley wasn't a good name for a writer. Not serious enough. So the whole family (their daughter was a year old) changed their last names to Bannon.

The couple separated that same year. She told investigators he was a habitual liar.

Only after they broke up did David become Race Bannon.

"He just took it to the next level, just like he did with anything else," she says. "He wants to be special, but he doesn't want to put in the work."

Credentials in question

Most of the documented work Bannon has done over the past decade involves computers.He taught at Guilford Technical Community College in 1997 and '98. The Greensboro News & Record quoted him that year in a story on the Y2K bug.

According to court papers, Wake Tech hired him to work in information systems later in 1998. Two years later, the school double-checked his resume. He had claimed degrees from Korean universities and provided paperwork: a report from an education company that evaluates international credentials.

Court papers say the report was a fake.

Wake Tech fired him in 2000. That same year, according to his book, something happened that gave him the inspiration to write about his secret life.

His daughter asked him how he got his scar.

`Something more than ordinary'

After "Race Against Evil" came out, Bannon took some offers to speak on child trafficking. One was at a Colorado campus in 2004.

According to court papers, his contacts from that speech led to his arrest this year.

A nonprofit organizer he'd met then asked him to come back for a benefit. The Colorado agents found out. That led them to ask Bannon about doing a training session, which led to Bannon naming his price.

As far as the agents were concerned, that met the standard for criminal impersonation. He wasn't just talking about his secret-agent life. He was asking to get paid for it.

The application for the arrest warrant says: "It is evident that Bannon is engaged in an ongoing business in which he is paid substantial fees for speaking engagements and training seminars."

Bob Brown, the Colorado agent, said Bannon made a DVD of the 2004 speech he gave in Colorado, plus clips from TV interviews and radio shows. He sent out the DVD to solicit business as a speaker.

After Bannon's arrest, other people published investigations of their own.

A Connecticut lawyer named Samuel Browning runs a Web site called Bullshido.net, which exposes people who inflate their martial arts credentials. Bannon claims to be a third-degree black belt in hapkido -- a Korean martial art -- and has written for kung fu magazines.

Browning spent two years checking dozens of details in Bannon's book -- down to the number of floors in a London hotel where Bannon says he killed a man. In February, Browning published a 10,000-word piece online that disputes most of the key stories in Bannon's book.

Across the country, Pamela White was writing an apology.

White, the editor of Boulder Weekly newspaper, did a long article featuring Bannon in 2004. After his arrest, she did an even longer piece about the doubts she'd had about him -- and why she had put aside those doubts.

"As a journalist, you have a built-in alarm that tells you who's a fake, who's a jerk and who's just crazy," she said in a phone interview. "None of those alarms went off. He wasn't begging for publicity. He's a really compelling, nice guy."

That last part comes up again, over and over. His ex-wife says he's a nice guy. Newspaper stories call him pleasant. In radio interviews he comes off almost shy, as if he doesn't want to talk about killing child pornographers, but OK, if you insist.

It's the personality you might match up with a guy who's 5-11, 155, with thinning hair. A guy who works with computers. A guy who collects comic books.

The kind of guy you might never notice.

That guy, with that life, wrote a 334-page book to create a new one.

In his book, Bannon talks about one of his own heroes: the TV detective Columbo.

Bannon writes: That guy was brilliant, I swear. Smart, polite and an act of simplicity that fooled everybody. A man one could learn from.

Pamela White, the newspaper editor, has thought about why Bannon would do what he did.

"He wants so badly to be a hero," she says. "More than that, he wants to be recognized as a hero and treated as a hero. He needed to be something more than ordinary."

He always wanted to write. So he wrote.

He changed David Wayne Dilley to David Race Bannon.

And for three years, he lived as a hero.

Now, on the paperwork he filled out after his arrest, he lists his current occupation.

Unemployed.

nanci
04-11-2008, 03:13 PM
David Race Bannon, 42, of Charlotte, North Carolina, claims to have worked for Interpol as a hit man, was arrested Friday, Jan. 27, in Boulder, Colo. for criminal impersonation. http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezin...hp?article=499 How silly is it that anyone would believe that Interpol uses a hitman? He did not even keep it a secret. He bragged about it and wrote a book about it. So the they arrested him for impersonating a criminal. LOL. Would you believe the world renown criminal had no criminal record? Even instant internet background checks (http://backgroundsearch.com) return phone number, address, address history for 30 years, age, birthdates, household members, relatives, associates, property ownership, lawsuits, marriage, divorce, criminal records check, sex offenders, terrorist watch, bankruptcy, tax liens. So why did the police invite him to be a guest lecturer? Police can be so dumb.