3 Returns 9 Rotations

[gwleachiv]

All,

I decided I would start a separate thread for people's comments in regards to the Meihua PM qigong set known as "3 Returns 9 Rotations" or "3 Turns 9 Rotations". Mr. Brazier has mentioned he will weigh in on the subject, and I would love to hear what anyone else has to add.

All I know about the set is the sparse information provided in Ilya's JAMA article which indicates that it is a "hard qigong" set designed to forge the body, and that it involves striking the body against an inanimate surface (again, if memory serves, it was a wall in Ilya's article). My own interest stems out of my own experience training Hung Gar's "Tid Sin Kuen" (Iron-Thread or Iron-Wire Fist) and a simple desire to compare and contrast.

Look forward to hearing from you all.

-Grady

[K.Brazier]

Why should we practice 3T9R?
The practice of this gung, which, it must be noted, has parallels in many other MA styles, is to fortify our yang aspect and make a man more manly by increasing the yang of his yin yang constitution.

This is stated clearly in the Li Kunshan sonnet,
"The real yang, once initiated, is hard like rock."
This means that not only can we make our body hard like rock, but figuratively speaking our yang aspect is unwavering like the bedrock of a mountain.

Seen in this light, any man who wishes to become more manly, regardless of his goals in MA will desire to train this method.

Not only do you become more manly, but it is also stated that the practitioner enters a state of,
"...no fear of anyone's fist."
That is to say that this training makes it hard for the opponent's fist to damage your body.
You literally beome fearless in fighting through this training method as it has an extremely strong emphasis on single pointed unwavering concentration for prolonged periods of time.

Even at the ripe old age of 70, my shiye, Li Hongjie, student of Li Kunshan, allowed me to execute full power body punches at will. As I hit him he merely laughed at me, not before or after the strike, mind you, teasing me,
"...it doesn't hurt...ha ha... no power...ha ha..."
punching his stomach literally felt like punching a car tire.

Some years later, Master Li, while riding his bike through the market was hit by a truck and thrown to the ground.
He merely got up, brushed himself off and told the driver to drive more carefully as he cycled away.
I'm sure the truck wasn't going to fast, but how many people in their late 70's can take a truck induced spill like that?

[Lu Bu]

Shifu Kevin

Thank you for the interesting info. One thing I want to ask, though: Basically, is this training the same as Iron Shirt? When you mentioned punching Li Hongjie's stomach which felt like punching a car tire, I have heard the same thing about people who master Iron Shirt. Or, is it the same end result with just a different training method? Thanks in advance!

Take Care

[K.Brazier]

I have not trained in iron shirt, nor seen it.
In fact, in Chinese I don't recall ever hearing the term tieh yi.

Tieh xian chuen, as I have learned and seen it is an isometric exercise. I have never seen someone get struck by their teacher while performing it.
Describing it, each movement uses maximum tension with an exhalation of the breath done in a slow fashion.
The emthod I describe has much slower exhalation, much faster inhalation and movements are not coordinated with the breath, instead you hold each posture for a long time.

METHOD

In the training I am describing, which may be close to iron shirt, the practitioner fills themself up with the maximum quantity of qi. Here, qi represents simple air, though it is not always so.

As the qi is slowly expelled from the body the muscles remain clenched.

Different postures may make it possible to clench the muscles differently.

BODY STRIKING
First the body is filled to the brim with qi then the practitioner seals the qi-bi qi. That is to say that he won't let any qi escape. Now the student is strike by the teacher at certain precisley prescribed locations.
There are different types of weighted tools for doing this, or a hand can also be used.

The strikes are done on most parts of the body such as: legs, abdomen, flank, chest, arms, back and head.

The methodology of the process matches the southern versions I have seen and learned except that a small amount of qi is expelled on being struck.

BODY STRIKING IN MANTIS FORMS

Another aspect of this training is striking your own body with maximum force as you run through your forms.

When shifu taught us Luanjie he showed how Zhang De Kuei used his left hand to strike his own chest as his right hand did a backfist-beng chuei.
Yes, he had a pleasant moment of recollection there.

This type of training is applied to the chest, abdomen and rib flank.

[Metal Mantis]

He also added inner thigh back hands at the end of Lin wa, when I was there... I still practice the Paida that you share... I have added strikes to the body.... I am going to share the story of your Shyrie with some folks here, they will enjoy it.... Motivates one to keep the consistancy needed to prevail in such training..... Peace.....