Yi Jin Jing

[bung bo]

any of you that have done the muscle/tendon change classic for a while--how much has your power and health improved. also, after you started reaping the benefits from the yi jin jing, was the power subconscious (when sparring or doing two-person drills, did you consciously have to call upon this new strength). i was guessing not, but i'm not for sure. i was thinking since the new and improved qi flow in your muscles was already there, it would be an effortless expenditure. thanks in advance for any and all advice.

[backbreaker]

I don't know if I do exactly what other people do but I've benefited some in speed and power from these type of exercises. At times I go from being relaxed to instantly tense and do a movement, which has improved my speed training, and also though made my body more solid and seemingly dense. It's weird, but kind of like squeezing say, my arms, and right into the bones but also the exterior like muscles and tendons, developing into force in a path inside the arms right out the palms, and then back into the palms along the backs of the arms. I also train the belt energy path

It seems strange, training bones and tendon, WTF? But I think it just is a solidness from instantly tensing with the muscles of the whole body, but especially the arms and legs at first and also is coordinated with reverse breathing and clenching toes and feet. There are some practices though that are stationary and done like 49 times each or something right?

In Taijiquan , the legs I think must be solid; the legs should not be able to be moved if pushed on, or struck, due to just being dense and solid and working as a unit, so there is some similarity at least .

So some speed , from balancing quickly tensing and relaxing , and also some whole body connected power structure and paths of internal force. I haven't been doing this sort of training enough lately

[blooming lotus]

I have been familiar with qi and qigong for many years now...to me it's like the internal oxygen and cultivating or doing somesort of soft qigong several times a day it's rare that I'm not aware...so to answer your question.... yes..it is now a natural phenonmena available at all times and is just part of the way I move ;)

[Repulsive Monkey]

Backbreaker are you sure you're doing it right if your body tenses up? Somehow that doesn't seem right at all!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

"Tensing-up"... there's a whole topic worth of concepts..

Based on my own experience, i sense that the tension is more appropriately referred to as "substance".. i have never seen anyone bloodied/bludgeoned by a piece of silk (limp and without substance).. yet, rigid and tensed lacks power and speed, it also is susceptable to breakage and tearing.. so, i believe that a relaxed "springy" posture adds substance while maintaining a soft neutrality..

Tension is also like increasing resistence to an electrical current, it slows the flow and increases heat.. During Zhan Zuang i sometimes test the students by pressing on their forearms.. i am hoping to see the frame and arms yield slightly while storing the pressing energy in the legs and torso.. as i extend the pressure forward i hope to feel increasing substance until i am over-extended and the stored energy is returned or released to one side pulling me off-balance.. what i don't hope to see is resistance.. the yielding, compressing and sinking stores sufficient energy to overcome the emptying and extended press..

Careful attention is useful in attending to the wave-like contribution of the spine.. as we store energy in our compressed torso (sinking in conjunction with reverse breathing/inhaling) the spine is a useful vehicle for releasing that energy in a powerful wave-like motion.. a whip-like action that sends a flood of energy into the shoulders and arms.. The Yi Jin Jing as was taught to me seems to emphasize this relationship, another QiGong set called Dragon Gate Qigong is also a good tool for highlighting this connection.. Too little attention is paid to the musclature and tendon structure of the back/spine including the Psoas which connect the spine to the hips/pelvis.. The muscle tendon changing exercises are not isolated or isolating.. they should be examined in conjunction with the whole system..

Sorry if i strayed too far from the topic, Be well...

[backbreaker]

Repulsive Monkey- I'm pretty sure that's how I was taught in the shaolin damo qigong I leaned. The mind directs the enrgy in a path while you breathe out with reverse breathing, then you tense the muscles clench the toes opening the feet points and focus on the energy in the palms. I have never had a problem from the tensing in this set, but it could be possible I guess if you did it wrong especially when tensing the abs, back or chest muscles. This qigong is both hard and soft , for healing and martial arts, part hard qigong and part gentle qigong. The only time I had aproblem in qigong was years ago when I was a kid I would combine Yang Taiji with qigong from a video and books, this would sometimes make me nuatious but not actually puke after the practice, I stopped doing it and now I have no qigong problems at all doing this Damo gong , the 49 tensing exersices, Taijiquan, or Wild Goose

I have also learned stationary exercises where you tense 49 times in each posture and have seen these exercises elsewhere in books. Maybe someone does some yi jin chin type exersises that do not use tension?

[backbreaker]

I looked up yi chin ching on the internet, and the sites I found did not use tension. Many movements were similar or even the same as what I do, but I tense at the end of the movement and contract the toes and hui yin point. Maybe what I'm thinking is a little different from the standard version.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I have been pondering the original question for a while.. and, i sense that the power is not sub-conscious.. it is in the clarity and focus of your intention.. my mind does not tell the Qi where to go, it expresses the intention and the Qi moves the body to execute the intent.. the degree of clarity and focus with which we intend a result, is the degree of speed and power with which our body responds.. of course, practice (and lots of it) provides the necessary familiarity with our complex body/mind/spirit relationship to permit skilled execution of a clear and focused intention..

Just another perspective, Be well...

[Gold Horse Dragon]

Good posts TCB.
I find that the energy is there when it is needed and that it just happens. Often I have to be careful in shaking hands to not let it out (hurt someone once...totally unintentional) Often with my students, I think I am just lightly touching them in demonstrating a technique...but they are getting hurt...so I make sure to tense a little to stop the flow of internal power...but it is darn uncomfortable.
There is a balance to power...too tense and you do not develop it, too limp and you do not develop it. To develop it one has to be sung...not relaxed per say as some interpret this as limp. I prefer to translate it as loose.

GHD

[bung bo]

backbreaker--the yi jin jing i do, i've read that some do tense their muscles very slighty on the exhale (to aid in concentration). also, i thought focusing on the baihui and yongquan points and reverse breathing (in this exercise) was a daoist nei dan practice (i might be wrong). how does this play alond with a buddhist (prenatal breathing) wai dan exercise. just curious.

[backbreaker]

I really don't know for sure, as I certainly am no expert. My experience though is that the taoist styles I've learned did not use breathing techniques. I can only guess that reverse breathing could possibly be buddhist, or possibly of an older origin, or else that the labels are not absolute and concrete. I think the body takes in energy and releases energy, so opening the bai hui , lao gong , etc. is important in both schools from what I've seen. And there are many similarities, chakras are in both schools and are pretty much the same, there are 6 healing sounds in both. So, maybe reverse breathing is in both as a coincidence because both schools have the same goal in the end and similar priciples, or maybe even though lineages were preserved and kept secret often there was cross training far back in time. I don't know, but many things are not exlusive to one school or another. In the Damo qigong I learned that comes from Chin chee Ching from singapore, there are 72 reverse breaths, standing meditation, 72 abdominal breaths, and more standing meditation in low satnces. It makes sense to me that if Damo practiced Yoga type exercises, there could be reverse breathing. And you never know, maybe someone claims to be either budhist or Taoist because anything else at that period of time would be looked down on, or maybe the people writing the history or story got it wrong. Maybe this requires someone more experienced than me to explain.

[bung bo]

there are so many different sources of info., it' confusing sometimes. i've been to a website that said sevenstar mantis is largely soft style and the sevenstar mantis i've been taught is very external. most of my info. is from stuff by dr. yang, jwing ming.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

I have been pondering the original question for a while.. and, i sense that the power is not sub-conscious.. it is in the clarity and focus of your intention.. my mind does not tell the Qi where to go, it expresses the intention and the Qi moves the body to execute the intent.. the degree of clarity and focus with which we intend a result, is the degree of speed and power with which our body responds.. of course, practice (and lots of it) provides the necessary familiarity with our complex body/mind/spirit relationship to permit skilled execution of a clear and focused intention..

Just another perspective, Be well...

exactly ...I think if you can remain with an ufettered mind or return to, your qi will be at its' strength

[Scythefall]

The Muscle tendon change we do(I Jin Ching) uses dynamic tension and a four directions movement. This is unusual from what I've seen in books and other schools.

Just as an example, in the first position: Sitting in a tripod stance with the palms flat in front of you, arms held in a circular pattern in front of you. Inhale and as you exhale tense every muscle. The first time you do this you'll leave the hand position as they are. The second breath, as you tense on the exhale, you'll also push the hands forward(away from you). The third breath you'll pull the hands back toward you. The fourth breath, you'll push the hands away from each other and on the fifth, they'll move towards each other.

that's not meant to teach anyone, but hopefully it's descriptive enough so that it's understandable.

The increased circulation is apparent immediately, but you can do that just flexing any muscle group. It took me some time before I started feeling the chi generation and saying "Okay..that movement circulates chi to the palms the same as "Propping the Heavens" in 8 Sections of Brocade.

The dynamic tension ensures that the circulation is saturating the entire system: Muscles all the way down to the tendons and bones. If you use a wire-whip afterwards and follow your meridians, you'll even stimulate circulation and chi flow in the bones and marrow. Kind of a short version of Iron Shirt, but it's a start:)

I don't know if Yi Jin Jing is exactly the same or not and I'm not really familiar with doing the exercise as a muscle tendon change without using muscle and tendon, but that's not saying much, because there are more versions of things than I can count! I've even seen 8 Pieces of brocade done as hard chi kung.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by bung bo
backbreaker--the yi jin jing i do, i've read that some do tense their muscles very slighty on the exhale (to aid in concentration). also, i thought focusing on the baihui and yongquan points and reverse breathing (in this exercise) was a daoist nei dan practice (i might be wrong). how does this play alond with a buddhist (prenatal breathing) wai dan exercise. just curious.


don't quote me on the rest but as far as I understand, wai is relating to the external systems like organs etc, nei to the internal, yin ....


hope it helps your practice

[sayloc]

Does anyone here consider yi jin jing a form of iron body training?

thanks for any thoughts on this

[quasar987]

Does anybody know, practice, or has practiced this style of Chi Gong? I would like to discuss it.

[quasar987]

In particular, what is it suppose to do/enhance? What did it do for you? Did you ever get hurt or know someone who got hurt practicing it?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

I practice it.. it is purely a health oriented QiGong, and a great supplement to 8 pieces of the Brocade..

Be well..

[quasar987]

health? dang, we mustn't call yi jin jing the same thing. This Chi Gong as I know it is hard. It has 14 exercices. The first exercices consists of making a fist, except that the thumbs "rests" on the hips, and with each slow respiration, you make your fist tighter and tighers.

Btw, what does Yi Jin Jing means?

[Pakmei]

Hi There,

Yi Jin Jing = Muscle and Tendon Changing.

Some people use it for health, where some people use it as a supplement for other forms of qi gong.

Though the original intention behind this form of qi gong, was to build up a stronger and healthier physique, by increasing the qi and blood circulation to the muscles, tendons and joints to help enhance the natural strength.

Primarily monks used this qi gong either prior to or after meditation, to help them recover from their long hours of meditation and kick start the body into action.

Regards

[Mikkyou]

Does anybody know, practice, or has practiced this style of Chi Gong? I would like to discuss it. Not anymore but it a great exercise

In particular, what is it suppose to do/enhance? What did it do for you? Did you ever get hurt or know someone who got hurt practicing it? The idea is strenghen the tendons and muscles and allow qi to flow since qi is flowing thru the main merdians good health results.Also since you are tensing and relaxing the muscles you are able to guide qi to them allowing them to withstand blows.The exercise for me helped strenghen my wrist.I can not think of anyone getting hurt from it unless they assume they developed an iron body and try to break things over there body which could result in harm.I guess from a nei gong standpoint it's possible to strain yourself or screw up but this exercise is generally safe best thing to do is try it slowly.

[Blacktiger]

Its a great exercise - once you finish the set you feel like a million dollars :D

[woliveri]

Bob,

Did you learn this Yi Jin Jing at the temple from visiting monks? When the monks came I asked Master Chan if they could teach us this exercise but the one they taught is not the "Real" Yi Jin Jing. Or it's a Yi Jin Jing and not Da Mo's Yi Jin Jing. Anyway, I was deeply dissappointed with what they taught as Yi Jin Jing. To me, what they taught was more like a stretching exercise.





>TaiChiBob Greetings..

>I practice it.. it is purely a health oriented QiGong, and a great supplement to 8 >pieces of the Brocade..

>Be well..

[gruevy]

I've got the temple version, if anyone wants to have me put a detailed description of everything up for this forum. My teacher never specifically said that I couldn't show people this, so it's probably okay. Maybe. Sorta.

[Crushing Fist]

I learned it with the older transliteration of "I Chin Ching"

The set I know consists of 49 postures done with hard chi breathing where you "hiss". It is good for health but also a very intense strength, flexibility, and balance workout. The first posture is the same as the one stated above, making fists. from there it goes into all sorts of difficult postures in which no part of the body is left out. To me it seems to be a blending of chinese hard chi kung with indian yoga, which fits in well with the story of its creation by Ta Mo. The way it works (supposedly) is by creating muscle tension in specific body parts, then using the breathing and concentration to send the chi there, where the tension traps it and causes it to build up progressively. Once you do all the postures every part of the body has been flooded with chi. Without even considering the chi aspect, its still an enormously difficult physical workout.

This is by far the most difficult exercise set I have ever come across. To do it properly with the correct number of breaths would take no less than 8 solid hours.
The benefits are many, including greatly increased strength, energy and endurance. If I could only do one exercise, this would be the one.


ok, you may commence the anti-shaolin-do rhetoric :)

[Sal Canzonieri]

Shaolin Yi Jin Jing 易筋經 : Fake or not Fake?

One of the most argued about Qigong sets was always this set.

The common story is that the Yi Ji Jing (Muscle-Tendon Chang Classic) arose from Damo's (Bodhidharma) teachings.

Shaolin researcher, the late Shi De Qian in the Shaolin Encyclopedia said that this Damo origin story cannot be documented by historical record and nor can its authors or sources be substantiated.

Martial arts historian Tang Ha said that this story was first found in the preface of an 1875 edition of The Yi Jin Jing book by Surig Kuang-So called the Weisheng Yijinjing. In it, a first preface is said to have been written by Li Jing, a great military officer of the Tang Dynasty (618-906 A.D). It is dated the second year of the reign of Emperor Tai Zung of the Tang Dynasty (about 629 A.D). A second forward in this book claims to be written by General Niu Gao of the Song Dynasty.

All research so far by many people has shown these prefaces to be fake and full of erroneous information. (For example: in the first preface, Shaolin temple didn't even exist yet when it was claiming the date that Damo had created it! The second preface mentions a Qinzhong temple that wasn't even built yet till 20 years after the date it gives for itself!)

Shaolin researcher Matsuda Ryuchi found mention about the existence of a Yì Jīn Jīng only as far back as 1827. In the course of his research, Matsuda found no mention about Damo at all in any of the numerous texts written about the Shaolin martial arts before the 19th century. Thus, there were no mentions that he created any sets either.

But the actual movements themselves?

Historian Lin Boyuan attributes the Yì Jīn Jīng to a Taoist priest named Zining, writing in 1624.

So, I don't think the movements are fake as some people today claim (not the actual old time historians that researched this), just the prefatory information given in the book, which contradictorily claimed it to be a Taoist art that came from a Buddhist origination point. It seems that the movements existed way before this book came to be published.

There also are supposedly known to be the same physical movements in Qigong sets with different names written about from other time periods. I remember reading that the movements originally came from what farmers did in their daily chores, such as when constantly moving heavy rice bags using ergonomic movements without getting sore muscles.

I once saw a hand written book that was passed down for generations from Shaolin via (early 16th century) Yi Quan's lineage (which led to Choy Gar's founding) mention the Yijinjing type movements as being a "Luohan 12 section Brocade" Qi gong set.

Today, the definitive and respected version (for its therapeutic value) of the Yi Jin Jing is considered to be the 12 Posture Moving Exercise that a Wang Zuyuan learned at the Shaolin Temple. There are two anciently written and illustrated routines known of this Yi Jin Jing set, one from Chen Yi’s “A collection of Annals” published during the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) and another more recently published in 1882, from “Internal Work Illustrated”, which is that of Wang Zuyuan.

In practicing this set, Taoist neigong, and Indian Yoga, I find that although there is much from Taoist Daoyin that can be seen in the Yi Jin Jing, equally there are movements and postures that are very very close to Indian Yoga postures.

How they all got together, I don't know.

[SifuPaladin]

Wow, you really did your research. I don't know about the history, and I don't know about it's qi gong applications, but I do know that I practice Yi Jin Jing every morning and can attribute some substantial physical ability to it (especially flexibility). I know that it is thanks to this, because when I do other exercises instead of Yi Jin Jing, I do not feel these benefits, when I first started practicing it, I felt major benefits within the first couple of weeks. So I don't know the history, and it sounds like no one really does (though good luck with your search) but I do know that it is effective.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Wow, you really did your research. I don't know about the history, and I don't know about it's qi gong applications, but I do know that I practice Yi Jin Jing every morning and can attribute some substantial physical ability to it (especially flexibility). I know that it is thanks to this, because when I do other exercises instead of Yi Jin Jing, I do not feel these benefits, when I first started practicing it, I felt major benefits within the first couple of weeks. So I don't know the history, and it sounds like no one really does (though good luck with your search) but I do know that it is effective.


That seems to be the general consensus, the movements have therapeutic value regardless of origin.

I found one source where this set was call Taizu Yi Jinjing, Grand Ancestor Yi Jin Jing.

(Oh, I decided to add a signature to my posts, going with the flow and all that, heh)

[Sal Canzonieri]

Shi De Qian (RIP) taught a fantastically detailed version of the Yi Jin Jing.

You can get a VHS or DVD copy from MartialArtsMart here in this site!

I highly recommend it.

I think there was a poster of him doing all the movements too, to use as a memory jogger.

[taai gihk yahn]

the yi jin jing that I learned has 43 distinct "exercises", many of which I have never seen done in any other school of qigong, and has numerous postures that are very similar to yogic asanas, including a few floor-work ones; as to their origin, I couldn't say, although my sifu likes to point out that in Cantonese, "yi jin" is pronounced "yik gan", which sounds not entirely unlike "yo ga"...:confused:

[Fa Xing]

Shi De Qian (RIP) taught a fantastically detailed version of the Yi Jin Jing.

You can get a VHS or DVD copy from MartialArtsMart here in this site!

I highly recommend it.

I think there was a poster of him doing all the movements too, to use as a memory jogger.

I actually have both and they are fantastic; one my most favorite qigong sets and I don't even do Shaolin.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I had the opportunity to practice a Shaolin version, learned from a friend, a long time ago. The real question is does it do what it is supposed to do? From my experience it does. I noticed increases in strength and endurance. When preceded by meditation it becomes incredibly alchemical through the compressing of the cosmic energy into the physical body, raising the body's frequency to that of the cosmos (oops, did I say too much here?). One can argue Shaolin or Wudang. It is the same science with varied approaches and varying results. Please keep in mind that the Shaw Brothers movie mentality did not really exist between the temples. There was a lot of cross pollinization. I would sooner go to Wudang or Omei to learn anything Shaolin these days than to go to Shaolin itself.

Now Sal,

What would be of interest to me is whether the Yi Jin Jing was influenced/inspired by the frescoes found in the Tun Huang caves. I have yet to find a book that shows the original frescoes. I saw some shown on the Yoga Journal many years ago and the frescoes looked painted over. They depicted extensive martial and internal hygenic/alchemical practices.


mickey

[Sal Canzonieri]

Greetings,

I had the opportunity to practice a Shaolin version, learned from a friend, a long time ago. The real question is does it do what it is supposed to do? From my experience it does. I noticed increases in strength and endurance. When preceded by meditation it becomes incredibly alchemical through the compressing of the cosmic energy into the physical body, raising the body's frequency to that of the cosmos (oops, did I say too much here?). One can argue Shaolin or Wudang. It is the same science with varied approaches and varying results. Please keep in mind that the Shaw Brothers movie mentality did not really exist between the temples. There was a lot of cross pollinization. I would sooner go to Wudang or Omei to learn anything Shaolin these days than to go to Shaolin itself.

Now Sal,

What would be of interest to me is whether the Yi Jin Jing was influenced/inspired by the frescoes found in the Tun Huang caves. I have yet to find a book that shows the original frescoes. I saw some shown on the Yoga Journal many years ago and the frescoes looked painted over. They depicted extensive martial and internal hygenic/alchemical practices.


mickey

Yes, that would be interesting to see.
There's a VCD out of these Daoyin movements. Someone followed the movements and made a video of it.

[uki]

my sifu likes to point out that in Cantonese, "yi jin" is pronounced "yik gan", which sounds not entirely unlike "yo ga"...this is where someone chimes in about damo's indian origins. :p

[Sal Canzonieri]

Yes, that would be interesting to see.
There's a VCD out of these Daoyin movements. Someone followed the movements and made a video of it.

http://neigong.net/wp-content/gallery/qigong/daoyin.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

http://neigong.net/wp-content/gallery/qigong/daoyin.jpg

So here is a semi-serious question,

“How is all that different from:

“You put your right foot in…..you put your right foot out…..

You put your right foot in…then you shake it all about….

Do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around…..

THAT’S what it’s all about!”

In my mind there isn't much difference, other maybe more controlled breathing.

[uki]

So here is a semi-serious question,

“How is all that different from:

“You put your right foot in…..you put your right foot out…..

You put your right foot in…then you shake it all about….

Do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around…..

THAT’S what it’s all about!”

In my mind there isn't much difference, other maybe more controlled breathing.well done. :D

[SifuPaladin]

So here is a semi-serious question,

“How is all that different from:

“You put your right foot in…..you put your right foot out…..

You put your right foot in…then you shake it all about….

Do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around…..

THAT’S what it’s all about!”

In my mind there isn't much difference, other maybe more controlled breathing.

The hokey pokey is a childish dance that is more focused on the beat of the music than anything. Yi Jin Jing is a form specially designed to stretch the muscles we don't often use, and to move the chi in certain ways as to give us several physical advantages (balance and flexibility are certainly high among them, but there are more advantages than just those.) So to answer your question, Yi Jin Jing is a science (so to speak) of enhancing physical ability.

[kfson]

Check out FIT YOGA magazine, April 2009, page 30:
CHANNEL SURFING- Meridian Yoga helps keep your life-force energy in optimal balance. By Lori J. Batcheller


I have practiced Indian yoga and Yi Jin Jing. I don't know which is better, but will guess the Yi Jin Jing may be more refined.
My Yi Jin Jing instructor says he knows old people who have been practicing Yi Jin Jing all their life. Some of these only need to practice in their minds to get results.

[mickey]

Hi Sal,

Those paintings (wood cut?) look nothing like the stuff I saw in the yoga journal several years ago with regard to the Tunhuang frescoes. Even though the caves were considered a "20th Century find" I believe that the place was a well known place, seldom discussed to members outside the spiritual community.

mickey

[SifuPaladin]

Yes, while I was able to recognize a couple of the gestures depicted in that image, I have to say that the artist took quite the artistic license in drawing it in my opinion. For the most part I found the moves rather unrecognizable, and found many entire parts of Yi Jin Jing not depicted (so far as I could tell that is) at all.

[Scott R. Brown]

Yes, while I was able to recognize a couple of the gestures depicted in that image, I have to say that the artist took quite the artistic license in drawing it in my opinion. For the most part I found the moves rather unrecognizable, and found many entire parts of Yi Jin Jing not depicted (so far as I could tell that is) at all.

Let me get this straight.....you are being critical of cave paintings or frescoes from hundreds of years ago, because they don't conform to your young and limited experience?:confused:

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps you don't have complete instruction or that the instruction has changed over the centuries or perhaps your instruction was incompetent, or etc.......?

Take THAT coming from a guy who thinks they look like the Hokey Pokey! :D

[Scott R. Brown]

P.S. I did save a copy of it to my hard drive! :)

[uki]

all this talk on the set makes me want to start doing it again... LOL... i even have my own portable clock for it, only the second hand is broken on it now... *sigh*

[SifuPaladin]

Let me get this straight.....you are being critical of cave paintings or frescoes from hundreds of years ago?

I didn't realize those were cave paintings, apparently I wasn't paying particularly close attention to this thread. I was thinking it was some sort of visual guide as to how to do it... as a cave painting, that makes a lot more sense. :)

[Scott R. Brown]

I didn't realize those were cave paintings, apparently I wasn't paying particularly close attention to this thread. I was thinking it was some sort of visual guide as to how to do it... as a cave painting, that makes a lot more sense. :)

No, No....I embellished mickey's post. He was saying he saw pictures in a yoga journal of frescoes from the Tun Huang caves in China that did not resemble those pictures at all. Tun huang were the caves where they found something close to 10,000 manuscripts on topics ranging from inane lists to the earliest known Ch'an writings. I was taking poetic license in order to give you a hard time.

Sal didn't actually tell us where he got the photo....yet. I hope!:)

[GeneChing]

I'm sorely tempted to move this to the Shaolin forum, but I know it's an attempt of Sal's to get some more activity going here, so I won't.

Diagram of Shaolin Muscle Tendon Change Classic (Shaolin Yijinjing) Poster (http://www.martialartsmart.com/85-11.html)(Shi Deqian's version)

Shaolin Muscle-Tendon Change Classic DVD (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-bj005.html)(Shi Deqian's version)

Muscle-Tendon Change Classic (Yijinjing) DVD with instruction manual (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-hq002.html) (CHQA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49940) version)

I wrote an article on this long ago, but I'm can't remember where I published it. I'm thinking it was World of Martial Arts (http://www.martialartsmart.com/world-martial-arts.html) but that hasn't been e-indexed so I'd have to do a manual search. I'll get back to you on this when I find that again.

[kfson]

I'm sorely tempted to move this to the Shaolin forum, but I know it's an attempt of Sal's to get some more activity going here, so I won't.

Diagram of Shaolin Muscle Tendon Change Classic (Shaolin Yijinjing) Poster (http://www.martialartsmart.com/85-11.html)(Shi Deqian's version)

Shaolin Muscle-Tendon Change Classic DVD (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-bj005.html)(Shi Deqian's version)

Muscle-Tendon Change Classic (Yijinjing) DVD with instruction manual (http://www.martialartsmart.com/dvd-hq002.html) (CHQA (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49940) version)

I wrote an article on this long ago, but I'm can't remember where I published it. I'm thinking it was World of Martial Arts (http://www.martialartsmart.com/world-martial-arts.html) but that hasn't been e-indexed so I'd have to do a manual search. I'll get back to you on this when I find that again.

I have that info also. My instructor gave us more info than what was described in the videos such as specific points and meridians on the body to concentrate on during each exercise. He is a doctor of oriental medicine, though.
And again, he said if you practice long enough, you can simply do the exercise in your mind and get the same result.

[uki]

And again, he said if you practice long enough, you can simply do the exercise in your mind and get the same result.mind is the path...

[Sal Canzonieri]

Hi Sal,

Those paintings (wood cut?) look nothing like the stuff I saw in the yoga journal several years ago with regard to the Tunhuang frescoes. Even though the caves were considered a "20th Century find" I believe that the place was a well known place, seldom discussed to members outside the spiritual community.

mickey

The image I posted was of an ancient Daoyin book (more like posters, kinda like the Dead Sea Scrolls were) that was found.

I also read that, supposedly, a Taoist text was found that predated the Shaolin Yi jin Jing books (not hard to do) that actually showed the same movements, but as a Taoist nei gung under a different name.

[Sal Canzonieri]

Yes, while I was able to recognize a couple of the gestures depicted in that image, I have to say that the artist took quite the artistic license in drawing it in my opinion. For the most part I found the moves rather unrecognizable, and found many entire parts of Yi Jin Jing not depicted (so far as I could tell that is) at all.

It's not the Yi jin Jing, it was an image of Daoyin movements found in some ancient source.

[Sal Canzonieri]

If you want a really good source of information, one of the best books in English is the "Ancient Way to Keep Fit", it shows all the various neigong sets from very ancient times that clearly influenced the development of the Ba Dun Jin (8 Section Brocade - you can't separate that set from the Yi Jin Jing set, they are necessary together), and it shows the Ming dynasty version of the set as compared to the Qing dynasty Shaolin version. All the names for the movements in the Ming era version are named after methods for working with heavy bags of rice, farmer's methods, whereas the Shaolin names for the movements are typically Shaolin style poetic terms:
http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Way-Keep-Fit-Zong/dp/0936070145/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261107130&sr=1-1-spell

Also, if you read Chinese, two volumes of a special series on the Yi Jin Jing, just about everything ever known about this set are available in these books (look down the page for them):

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/lionbks/lb_specialeditions.htm

if you seriously want to dig deep into these sets, then I recommend you start here.

[Sal Canzonieri]

From my own research on Ming era Shaolin, I have seen something that relates to the Yi Jin Jing but wasn't called that yet:

According to a hand written book that has been passed down from the late Ming era to today called Shaolin Wu Quanpu manual (少林五拳譜), the Shaolin Ming era Shaolin arts were passed on through the generations from (Ming dynasty Hong Wu era) Monk Jue Yuan to Monk Yi Guan to secular Cao Wangting (曹王廷) of Shaanxi, who passed it on to a layman named Teng Heizi. Then during the Qing dynasty it passed to a lay person by the name of Liu Qingchao of Shandong Shou County, next it was passed on to a Zhang Junwe, a layman in Raoyang County in Shandong, then to Feng Yan, and finally to a layman named Niu Hanzhang (1898- 1975).

In it:

This 少林五拳譜 book passed on to Niu Hangzhang shows a complete system of Shaolin martial arts taught in this ancient lineage, including:
Standing Gong (Exercises or Skills) - 樁功 (八字, 一字, 川字, 子午樁);
Slipping Legs Frame (methods) - 溜腿架 (十字, 四正, 四隅三套);
18 Section Child Gong - 十八段童子功;
18 Section Luohan Gong - 十八段羅漢功;
Luohan 18 Hands - 羅漢十八手;
Changed Transforming 15 hands (Bian Hua 15 Shou) - 變化十五手;
Shaolin 5 Fist - 少林五拳,
Drunken 8 Immortals - 醉八仙;
Orthodox Shaolin Boxing 10 Times - 正宗少林拳十趟 :
1 四旬開進式 – 40 Open Entrance Methods,
2 六旬四方式 – 64 Direction Methods ,
3 八旬盤身式 – 80 Coiling Body Methods,
4 八方變通式 – 8 Direction Changing Through Methods,
5 化頤六合式 – Transforming Nourishing Six Harmony Methods,
6 陰陽中合式 – Yin Yang Center Harmony Methods,
7 鴛鴦進步連環腿 – Mandarin Duck Advancing Step Linked Kicks,
8 盤膝陰手式 – Coiled Knees Yin Hands Methods,
9 震伏順意式 – Shaking Submit to Obey Thoughts Methods, and
10 震靜机動式 – Shaking Still Secret Methods;
18 Times Luohan Boxing (consisting of 18 different unnamed hand sets) – 十八趟羅漢拳;
Shaolin Hard Soft 24 Postures – 少林刚柔二十四势;
Shaolin 36 Hands Walking / Traveling School Cross Steps – 少林三十六手行门过步;
Shaolin Cutting Hands Way of 16 Hands – 少林裁手法十六手;
360 Scattered Hands (San Shou) – 三百六十散手;
Neigong (internal exercises) Qi/Air Techniques - 內功气術;
Intersecting Hands Method Secrets Class – 交手法訣等;
many weapons sets (such as: 八仙剑, 八仙醉剑, 穿云双剑, 六路进化戟, 开山大斧, 朝天大钺, 连环钩, 檀香双拐, 流行锤, 鞭, 锏, 锤, 抓, 镗, 狼牙棒, 搠镢, 棒, 花枪, 单刀, 七节钉, 三节棍, 匕手, 钩镰枪, 梢子棍, 铁尺, 连子锤, 板斧, 子午鸳鸯钺, 判官双笔, 手拯子, 鹅眉刺, 双蓝, 少林缩身摆莲地躺剑, 少林地躺双刀, 少林地躺七节鞭 );
Li Sou’s Shaolin Staff methods – 李叟所传少林棍法;
8 Coiling Linking Staff - 八盘连环棍;
Division into 7 methods and 8 points - 分七法八点,
Stick secret song – 棍诀歌, and also
66 Posture Stick Chart 66 - 六十六势棍谱.

Bai Yufeng also taught the "18 Luohan Hands qigong exercises”, which had first started being practiced at Shaolin in the Song dynasty and by the Jin Dynasty became known as the “Eight Section Brocade”, which later changed into the “Yi Jinjing” 12 Postures. Niu’s Shaolin quan pu book passes on Bai Yufeng’s record of the 18 Luohan Hands method:
1. 朝天直举 (一手) – Face Upwards Vertical Rise;
2. 排山运掌 (共四手) – Row of Mountains Moving Palms;
3. 黑虎伸腰（四手) – Black Tiger Stretches Waist;
4. 鹰翼舒展 (一手) – Eagle Wings stretch spread;
5. 辑肘钩胸 (一手) – Gather elbows hook chest;
6. 挽弓开膈 (一手) – Pull Bow Open Diaphragm;
7. 金豹露爪 (一手) – Golden Leopard Presents Claws;
8. 腿力跌荡 (三手) – Legs Forcibly Drop Move;
9. 钩腿盘旋 (三手) – Hook Legs Coil Revolve.

As it can be seen, Bai Yufeng actually passed on these 18 Luohan exercises, and not Damo (Bodhidharma), as legends later began to say.

This was perhaps the earliest root of the Yi Jin Jing, under the name "18 Luohan Hands Qigong Exercises".
The material I researched mentioned that this material that Bai Yufeng taught had earlier been a major influence during the Yuan Dynasty on Zhang Sanfeng, during his stay at Shaolin.

Also, Bai Yufeng was Taoist trained, from Shanxi. It said that this internal art had died out at Shaolin by the end of the Yuan dynasty after a serious destruction of the temple by bandits. By the time Jue Yuan and Bai Yuefeng reached Shaolin, it was a desolate place, they are the ones that began to revitalize it. With them, they brought Li Sou, who introduced the Shanxi Hong Quan staff methods that completely transformed Shaolin into a mecca for martial arts a hundred years later.

[Sal Canzonieri]

http://neigong.net/wp-content/gallery/qigong/daoyin.jpg

this image is of this:

In 1974, at the Ma-Wang-Dui Tombs in Changsha of Central China's Hunan Province, China's archaeologists found a dao yin picture. It was China's earliest extant painting of healthy movement, created at the end of 3th century BC.

What it looked like before "restoration":
http://www.hnmuseum.com/hnmuseum/eng/whatson/exhibition/images/mwd/2-2-6-1.jpg

More info:
http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/esb.htm

[Sal Canzonieri]

Lots of good information about Yi Jin Jing in English:

http://www.egreenway.com/qigong/yijinjing.htm

about Ba Dun Jin:
http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/esb.htm

The path of progression over time:
Very Ancient Taoist Daoyin >
Ancient Taoist Ba Duan Jin (Sui and Tang dynasties) >
Shi Er (12) Duan Jin of Yue Fei (Song dynasty) >
18 Luohan Gong of Shaolin (Yuan and Ming Dynasty) >
Yi Jin Jing - Taoist/Shaolin merger (Qing dynasty).

[mawali]

It's not the Yi jin Jing, it was an image of Daoyin movements found in some ancient source.

I have looked at the Daoyin movements and they share much of Baduanjin iconography. Perhaps baduanjin movements were copied (from Daoyin tu!!) and designed to match the 'divine' 8 by concentrating on specific section of the meridian systems.
Have you looked at Livia Kohn's body of work? She does mention a few systems known as "Daoyin" but they are more a neo-Daoyin/neo Daoist "redesign" (for lack of a better wording). It is difficul to tell with the various level of revisionism present within CMA.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I recently came across an essay called Kung-fu, or Tauist medical gymnastics by John Dudgeon, M.D., C.M. Published in 1895 by Tientsin press in a book called The Beverages of the Chinese; Kung-fu; or, Tauist medical gymnastics; the population of China; a modern Chinese anatomist; and a chapter in Chinese surgery.

The entire essay is available online here. (http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/kfu/index.htm#contents) It includes postures and movements, the times to do them, and what herbs to take with the exercise. I tried finding out where they came from... the author is repeating a claim by another researcher that this curriculum comes from Lan Zhou, in Gan Su province.


According to Du Halde, the residence of the Chief of the Tauists, called the Celestial Doctor (T‘ien Sze), is in the department of Kan-chou Fu, in the province of Kansuh, a mountainous country which furnishes an extraordinary abundance of medicinal plants. There is the central establishment for the teaching of the doctrine. They possess secondary establishments, one of the most considerable being that in Kiangsi, where a crowd of sick come together from all parts, in search of a remedy for their ills. (Dudgeon, 1895, P. 95)

[ghostexorcist]

I just finished a university course on martial arts and religion. The "final" was a lengthy paper and an accompanying video describing the written piece. I'm attaching the video here to get some feedback from the community. You'll notice I used the word "yoga" in place of "daoyin" because the former term is more well known. I wanted my video to appeal to a wider audience. Also, I refer to the author of the Yijin Jing as "Purple Elixir Daoist" as opposed to "Purple Coagulated Man of the Way." Shahar suggests the former is another possible reading because of the exercise's association with internal alchemy. I personally like this reading better. I'll post a link to the paper in the future. It's completed and turned it, but I was short on time while making the video and writing the paper. I want to rewrite the piece and add in more information before others read it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysJ2WPgMCdY

[SoCo KungFu]

I just finished a university course on martial arts and religion. The "final" was a lengthy paper and an accompanying video describing the written piece. I'm attaching the video here to get some feedback from the community. You'll notice I used the word "yoga" in place of "daoyin" because the former term is more well known. I wanted my video to appeal to a wider audience. Also, I refer to the author of the Yijin Jing as "Purple Elixir Daoist" as opposed to "Purple Coagulated Man of the Way." Shahar suggests the former is another possible reading because of the exercise's association with internal alchemy. I personally like this reading better. I'll post a link to the paper in the future. It's completed and turned it, but I was short on time while making the video and writing the paper. I want to rewrite the piece and add in more information before others read it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysJ2WPgMCdY

Why could I never have college courses like that?

I just realized you're in Cinnci. If you ever find yourself in Cbus, I know a few good places to be belligerent apes.

[Faux Newbie]

Why could I never have college courses like that?

I just realized you're in Cinnci. If you ever find yourself in Cbus, I know a few good places to be belligerent apes.

Careful what you ask for. I teach and I once had a student write a paper on which taichi is valid based on how closely it stuck with taichi history. When you have experienced an argument online for years, and then have someone turn in a paper based on what historians recognize is revisionist history, despite your best efforts to steer them to valid sources, you will understand pain.

It took all I had to not go totally 4chan on that. I didn't once use the term 'butthurt'. That is taking the high road, without question.