Sensitivity of your forearm

[SPJ]

What is the training paradigm in your school of MA as far as the forearm is concerned?

This is an actual Q asked of me. She is interested in Ba Gua Zhang. She has some background in TKD.

After some consideration, I replied that she may practice some Wing Chun Chi Sao or sticking hands. And then she may also practice some Tai Chi Push hands. Then she may consider Ba Gua Zhang.

She asked why.

When you practice Chi Sao with a dummy first and then a live partner, you may learn how to get the opponent to the outside and keep your centerline. You may start without moving steps. Later you may practice to get to the outside, too.

In Tai Chi push hand, you are moving your waist and then you move your steps, too. fixed steps Ding Bu, and then moving steps Fo Bu Tui Shou. From single hand to both hands.

In Ba Gua, there are not only the forearm and the waist, but also the 8 gua steps. In Tai Chi, there are only 5 steps.

I really simplified a lot.

Anyhoo, the forearm sensitivity and maneuver practice are very important.

What is your school of MA training paradigm for forearm?

:D

[IronFist]

<troll>

We didn't believe that forearm contact existed for any discernable amount of time in combat to warrant any sort of sensitivity training :D

</troll>

[joedoe]

<troll>

We didn't believe that forearm contact existed for any discernable amount of time in combat to warrant any sort of sensitivity training :D

</troll>

That is because you have no cultivated your qi! :D

[gfx]

Just wondering, don't you worry that wingchun will have a negative effect on her body alignment in taiji and bagua? The paradigm shift is quite big between the styles there.

[SPJ]

Yes, the body structures are different.

WC has the Er Zi Qian Yang Ma stance.

The idea was to use the forearm and the wrist to contact and to neutralize the opponent's Jing without moving the feet or assuming the horse stance and guarding your center line. At higher levels, you do move your steps.

In Tai Chi, we assume a high horse riding stance and shifting weight between knees and rotating the waist. And then move in 5 steps. Not only sensing, the forearm is used to Peng and Ji. You have the silk reeling Jing or Chan Si Jing.

In Ba Gua, the walks are from Gou Bu and Bai Bu, but there are more variations or changes in terms of using the palm and the forearm, upward, downward, left, right, front and rear or 8 general directions around your body with steps. You are rotating your wrist and forearm, the waist and the steps all at the same time. Or Spiraling Jing or Rou Xuan Jing.

Yes, you may go to Ba Gua right away.

There are different ways or levels of using the forearms. Sensing and beyond.

:)

[Mikkyou]

We use the idea of punching the inner nerve on the wrist as well as the bone on the outer wrist hit hard enough it will break the wrist or numb the arm

[Vajramusti]

"When you practice Chi Sao with a dummy first and then a live partner, you may learn how to get the opponent to the outside and keep your centerline. You may start without moving steps. Later you may practice to get to the outside, too.


What is your school of MA training paradigm for forearm?"
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SPJ, I appreciate many of your posts. A comment on the above.
Usually working with the jong(dummy) is not called chi sao.

But as a side effect of dummy work and wing chun blocking drills-not mindless banging- you develop pretty effective bridges-key to the forearms.

joy chaudhuri

[PangQuan]

"What is your school of MA training paradigm for forearm?"
We pair off and perform routine blocking drills.

I always pair with the same person, we hit as hard as we can without serious injury as fast as we can while still retaining accuracy. The first person to slow down, stop, or utter a sound of pain, loses.

[WinterPalm]

The Black Tiger style my Sifu teaches has a lot of varied training that involves the forearm. This ranges from bridge training and external muscle development which includes dynamic tension and resistance exercises. There is also sensitivity and push hands exercises and self-defense drills that train awareness and sensitivity to motion coming at one from various angles. This teaches the proper path of attack and where it can be led.
There is also conditioning which involves partner drills of 3,5,7,9 star blocking. This develops the external tissues to take a strike and deliver one without damaging oneself. There is an Iron Ring set that trains this as well.

I feel that most Kung Fu styles are defensive in nature, no doubt owing to Buddhist origins, and as such the requirements for defense are to parry and block and this is why a large part of Kung Fu has as part of its curriculum the conditiong and training of the forearms.
I feel that all these methods give one a definite energy as my Sifu exhibits during class. A certain force is there that I have never felt before that allows him to destroy any form of bridge I may construct and also to follow everything I do with sensitivity.

It seems a good idea to balance this hard conditioning with the softer sensitivity. But that is just what I have learned so far.

[Indestructible]

We have an upper gate push hands drill and an upper/lower gate push hands drill which are all part of Yu Men Quan. These excercises teach both sensitivity and resistance in the push hands posture.

[Ming Yue]

We do regular 2 man forearm conditioning work in just about every class. Significant banging for the senior students, lighter contact level for beginners.

It has toughened my forearms significantly, but the attached picture of me after our school opening demo in January shows that even a lot of conditioning isn't really enough. :)

[Vash]

Yay! Ming Yue's back!

As far as I know, we don't have any sensitivity drills per se, though there is a "push-hands" style drill in motobu-ryu which I like to run with ever' once in a while.

[Ming Yue]

Yea! Hi everybody!
*big hug for Vash*

[Vash]

Yea! Hi everybody!
*big hug for Vash*

:o :cool:

We have a few conditioning drills - kotikitai, I think it's spelled. Great for forearm conditioning. We also run calf- and shin-conditioning drills.

[WinterPalm]

My god! Those forearms are damaged! How much dit dat jow did you have to soak those things in?? THat must have been some ruthless training?

The closest I have come to something like that was when I videotaped myself doing a a Black Tiger Iron Ring form twice in a row. Each session was about 18 minutes long and man were my wrists bruised!

[Ming Yue]

We were banging pretty hard , 3 demos that day, one hour each. I did a lot of 2 person stuff with the boniest guy in class. :)

All that bruising cleared up in just a few days with 2x a day applications of my homebrew jow. For me, bruises go away fast if I take care of 'em.

[IronFist]

Calf conditioning? How often do you get kicked in the calf?

All I know is the day after doing calf raises I can't even touch my calves without a ton of pain... but that's not something you could overcome with conditioning. In fact, doing calf conditioning while experiencing DOMS from calf raises would hurt really bad, I bet.